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alex_wilson
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THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 13 Mar 2023, 3:18 am
First topic message reminder :

Mistah Koch he brain dead


A kopeck for Old Pigby and Little Barnie 


We are the hollow men


The over stuffed men


With our empty heads hanging down like invisible titties 


 our headpieces bleed straw an' you tube ditties


Seeking the consolation of a dead man's hand


A leader misunderstood,  save for our noble band


The hollow men 


The over stuffed men


With halos atop our heads all rich with straw


Dazzled with dreams dead with full spectrum awe


A prickly pear shaped like a pair of pricks


A pair of pricks, 


Licked by a dick with a waistline  


        At least two Zapruder thick


The driver? , he wear a hat , singin' " kill me quick "


As he fired his gun with a lazy flick


Of the  wrist


What's this?


What's this?


A pear of pricks for a prickly pair?


Hey! Mistah Fezzo sir, quick! Looky over there!


Master Jimbo say a couple of doppels jus' went a bopplin'


                            Outa the very thinnest air!


I do declare!


A prickly pear or just a pair of pricks?


At least thirty three Zapruder thick


A fake mom in a doorway?


You don't say?


                                Quick then,  before the photo man he come an' blimp 'er 




This is how a 13 inch head explodes


This is how a 13 inch head explodes 


This is how 60 years of dreams corrode


Not with a trump but with a whimper 


Apologies for the ( thankfully) brief visit to the Burnham/ Drago/ Dragoo 2nd Floor Lunchroom of Disembodied Poetics ( Curator/ Poetaster in Residence Jim Hackett II,  author of Deep Political Haiku of the Century,  " The troof it shines/ like a diamond/ in a goat's behind " Check out our upcoming exhibit,  an audio video installation by the pioneer of minimalist gibberish,  Fezzo da Fez  partly inspired by Artauds Theatre of Cruelty and by Oscar the Grouch goes fingerpainting)

But, after perusing the latest horrors in the grotesque mass psychotic breakdown , otherwise known as the " Inevitable....56 years thread " , currently a whopping 1210 pages long,  it was either start a thread, book a one way ticket to Sanibel Island or dig out great uncle Smither's trusty service revolver,  gorge myself on the " nutritional supplements " I ordered from infowars, and  metaphorically speaking at least,  drink a last glass of Chateau Pereguey 1856, throw my last gold rubles into the prettiest dancers shoes and step outside,  into the unforgiving arms of the cold grey dawn....

The likes of Koch,  little Barnie and the newly reinvigorated Pigby ( and never has a nickname been so perfectly apt- Raul, echoing the shadowy eminence grise , deeply implicated in setting up James Earl Ray,  and Pigby,  a devastatingly accurate,  onomatopoeiac almost,  name for the puce faced porcine snouted would be provocateur, flushed with a totally unwarranted sense of intellectual self satisfaction. As if HE and HE alone has the wit and the insight to unravel the riddles of the ages, exposing the dark secrets at the very heart of the hellish consumerism playground called freedom) and their jaw dropping antics are a perfect microcosm for the deep malaise that has transformed the good ship assassination research into a rotting parasite infested hulk. 

Saying that,  the opposite side, rather the , oooh and how beautifully fucking apt,  the near identical doppelganger ( albeit reflected back via a succession of distorting fun house mirrors,  after all the trick is,  and has always been,  control BOTH sides of the faux debate,  while making both sides believe that they,  and they alone are the noble heirs of the sons and daughters of Freedom,  carrying the tattered banner, stained with the blood of heroes into battle against the forces of oppression and tyranny) ain't much better. 

Ms Sharp , unwittingly or not,  is acting as the standard bearer for an archaic regressive approach to so called " conspiracy research " , an approach that ultimately failed,  and failed quite catastrophically. 

Fizzling out,  and becoming a bastardised form of genealogy,  getting hopelessly entangled,  then lost in an interlinking warren of seemingly bottomless rabbit holes. 

Tom Scullyitis,  mingled with a hefty dose of revisionist fantasy and,  I'm afraid to say,  a bias driven determination to remain stubbornly ignorant of the actual,  empirical,  factually based history of WW2. 

Including the myriad causes and effects.

If so and so knew so and so and if so and so once took a dump back in 1936 in the club so and so bought , 20 years later,  and if so in so was in Dallas....you get the picture..

Some people just refuse to learn,  rather their predispositions and deeply held beliefs allow them to convince themselves that each new mistake is actually some sort of progress 

The miraculous LaFitte " datebook ", complete with coyly worded publishers disclaimer,  was just the latest in a long line of iron pyrite nuggets,  no amount of frantic polishing ( and fevered speculation) could turn to gold. 

A conspiracentric riff on the old medieval alchemists fable of the Philosopher's Stone. 

I'm only slightly exaggerating when I say I wouldn't have been all that surprised if the late Mr Albarelli and his amanuensis in chief,  didn't try to link Flamel,  or even the Count of Saint Germain' to the assassination. 

Maybe Fulcanelli helped storyboard the Z fake, what say you, Master Pigby?

This ill disciplined,  ideologically driven school of assassination research,  which,  arguably reached its apotheosis on Deep fOO- with its almost fanatical intolerance for opposing views,  and seeming predilection for toying with the trappings of authoritarianism ( a mania for " outing "those who dare speak out against the Orthodox gospels, oft repeated fantasies of punishment,  legal accountability and,  not to mention,  the frequent use of banning) combined with the rise of the oxymoronically called alternative media,  encouraged the trickle of tin foil hatted zanies,  bigots, alt right  hatemeisters,  who use the trappings of conspiracism to mask far darker agendas,  to become a virtual torrent. 

Encouraged by " mainstream conspiracy figures " almost unbelievably myopia and lack of discernment. 

Saying all that,  their missteps pale into insignificance next to the insidious hate filled garbage,  gleefully disgorged by the appalling Master Koch and his wannabe psychologist sidekick. 

Although Little Barnie did manage add a little much needed  humour to the otherwise  depressing  humourless  farrago. A depressingly predictable and insipid character,  intoxicated by the fact he has an actual IDEA rattling around his futuristically minimalist pied a terre of a head( ie it's absolutely empty,  save for the chic black wallpaper,  single chair,  a modernist pine reproduction of a Louis Quinze,  naturallement and the lone light bulb, swinging hungrily from the ceiling,  like a newly constructed gibbet,  no wait,  it was a goalpost, duh) and enamoured by his feat,  actually managing to read A WHOLE FUCKING BOOK,  now , not only considers himself an intellectual,  but some sort of subversive anarcho philosophical/ psychological wunderkind. 

A sheepeler on the hunt for a flock of sheeple ( in the old days he would have been forced to scrawl his manifesto on lavatory walls,  or place discreetly worded ads in, er,  " specialist " magazines,  the sort I can imagine Ben Cole idly flicking through, under the dim red light in his steamy Bangkok pad,  waiting for more inspiration to strike....Egad,  I wonder if Jim would let me write a panygeric for Mr Buffalo Horns for K and K? )

Anyhoo,  Little Barnie did manage to ( inadvertently) come up with a nugget of pure 24 carat comedy gold..

Lately he's been singing the praises of a certain 19th century French doctor cum embryonic psychologist,  in particular,  his book " The Crowd" - influenced primarily by his experiences in the Franco Prussian War, specifically the ill fated Paris Commune. 

Gustav Le Bon ( and,  no, Mr Scully, before you start wondering,  he wasn't the 6th cousin,  twice removed,  of the mother, of the uncle,  of the sister of the chihuahua who formed Duran Duran)

In its day Le Bon and his book were influential,  dissecting crowd mentality and discussing methods of possible control/ manipulation. He was ( a marginal) influence on both Hitler and Mussolini.  The former being far more impressed,  and inspired by Gobineau,  Chamberlain, Wagner and his cult of Gerrmanism,  and the anti semitic populist mayor of Vienna,  Kurt Lueger,  who understood the crucial importance of mobilising a strong working class base for the Far Right nationalists. Reading Hitler's Political Testament,  dictated to Frau Junge,  approximately 72 hours or so before he jumped in a flying saucer and headed for Antarctica,  via Bariloche,  with Eva, his daughter,  Bormann,  Fegelein and all his chums,  no wait,  my Zionist mind kontrol implant has been playing up of late, of course what I meant to say was , just 72 hours or so before he committed suicide in his sitting room,  in the Bunker,  deep below the ruins of Berlin,  you can still easily see the profound impact of the German nationalism of the old Austro Hungarian Empire. Fundamentally,  politically and ideologically speaking,  the Hitler who left Vienna was the Hitler who died beneath Berlin. 

His mind, poisoned by Morrell's drugs, megalomania, Parkinson's disease etc, narrow and littered with a hodge podge of half digested ideas, remained curiously ossified. 

Anyhoo,  one of Le Bon's main interests was Celaphometry....THE MEASURING OF HEADS

Perfect!! He would have been in head measurin' nirvana!! 

Barnie and his chum Koch, who is, quite simply a loathsome human being,  lacking any sort of compassion,  reason or understanding. An over entitled semi literate psuedo reactionary  thug, ( the latter , despite his claims of " reading over 250 books ") quite clearly don't really give a fuck about the assassination. 

Their knowledge is somewhere between superficial and non existent. 

They have hijacked the subject for their own malign ends. Koch, for political motives,  spreading his warped narrative to,  what he obviously assumed would be, a receptive audience. I suspect Little Barnie is more interested in the mental masturbation angle. A loathsome character,  who has unsurprisingly resorted to labelling his self declared enemies , using terminology that would have made Julius Streicher himself weep prophetic tears...

Terms of endearment like " animals " and " intellectual vegetables" , echoes of another intellectual titan, Michael Clark. 

Little Barnies " 20 reasons thread" , designed,  no doubt,  to further underline his ineffable unsurpasseable moral and intellectual superiority,  as he peers down from his private jet, Triumph of the Will like, at the hapless masses cowering beneath his mighty eagles shaped shadow  was , in reality, little more than a testament to colossal smugness,  impenetrable ignorance 

Designed,  no doubt,  to emphasize his sophistication and superiority.. it was like Hello!magazine,  mixed with The Physicians Desktop Reference,  with a smattering of pseudo Mein Kampf like subtlety. 

Just horrendous brain rotting bilge

His " ideas", superficial and passe as they are,  and filtered through a lumpen shroud of cliche and stilted penmanship,  amounted to little more than a novice conspiracists attempt at self justification. 

Not once, in between the clumsy pastiche,  about as fresh and modern as the wilting plastic leaves of a exotic potplant,  perfect for a swinging 60s scenesters bachelor pad,  the inevitable cliches and unwieldy attempts at cod psychoanalysis,  did he mention the word " fact"

Or stipulate exactly WHAT conspiracy he meant. 

Little Barnie sez : if you don't want to be a sheeple,  act like a sheep. Don't bother your woolly little minds with stuff like facts, evidence, taking each on it's own specific merits,  everything is a conspiracy!! If you don't realise this you're obviously a dumb over emotional vegetable...

Pigby is a different story entirely. From Greer shot JFK,  every film was altered,  he's graduated to the heady heights of propaganda conduit...but maybe, in a way,  he always was. As if he's determined to associate " assassination research " with the most horrendously harebrained dreck. I can't believe he's actually serious,  his sporadic seriocomedic spurts of verbal diahorrea, are surely a lame attempt at humour? Some sort of gadfly,  using Ken Dodds old diddy stick to tickle the funny bones of a crowd of sour faced self righteous fucking buffoons. 

If he IS serious then Armstrong have mercy on him. 

Apart from this forum -well almost,  Greg Doudna seems determined to turn casuistry into an artform. His frenetic defence of the Quaker Charity lady was bad enough,  but his latest foray into advanced sophistry,  trying to argue LHO was responsible for the Walker shooting ( I note in passing  his fellow casual casuist,  and Twat for All Seasons,  Ben Cole,  wrote a similar piece for K and Ks)- and a handful of serious researchers, who keep their biases firmly under check,  and respect the subject, ive lost any lingering respect I had for the capabilities ( seriously questioning the motives of a not inconsiderable minority) of the research community at large. 

Most especially their po faced sanctimony,  self righteousness,  lack of genuine analytical skills,  their sometimes shocking lack of knowledge,  their dogmatism and most of all this seeming mania to transform the abyss into a mirror,  reflecting their own biases and fixations. 

Imho Prayerman is last chance saloon. The blade of Alexander's sword poised to slice through the Lord Gordian knot, and finally free the case from decades of dead weight and bullshit 

My biggest fear is any potential breakthrough will be politicised and hijacked. 

One of the bitterest ironies is the fact that JFK became such a threat to the entrenched system,  then in the process of coalescing into the multi faceted supranational monstrosity , because he understood tribalism,  nationalism,  organized religion,  class and ethnic based divisions are the cancers of the modern post industrial age. As they were in ages past, and in ages , as yet unborn, The most effective means of control, because,  essentially division means control. 

And, yet, here we are,  nearly 60 fucking years, half a century plus 10 , down the road,  and characters,  purportedly researching the truth behind his assassination,  are helping to perpetuate these very same divisions. 

No fucking wonder I choose sometimes to seek out the low door in the wall, that takes me to the enchanted kingdom , on the other side of the Looking Glass,  where I can lounge around in the doorway with a hookah smoking doppelganger or three, or wander through a magical Potemkin village,  with a bulbous headed grey insectoid alien,  a shapeshifting Hungarian polyglot,  who can change into a dumpy fake mom,  or a plump grey haired woman...

We are the hollow men 

The stuffed men 

Our lunchroom filled with straw

Believin' in shit

                          Nobody ever saw

Just because 

Just because 

And Hitler he had two fuckin' baws 

This is how a 13 inch head bursts

This is how a 13 inch head bursts

Like a doppelgang'd Dealey Plaza blimp'er 

Not with a bang...but with a whimper





     
       


Last edited by alex_wilson on Mon 27 Mar 2023, 9:30 pm; edited 4 times in total

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle

greg_parker
greg_parker
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THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty Re: THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 15 May 2023, 1:09 pm
Sandy Larsen @ the ed forum wrote:A few months ago I came across a list of H&L believers. The number was very large, roughly 90, and included numerous highly-respected, well-known researchers and authors. I had seen only a small number of the EF posters on the list comment on EF about Harvey & Lee. I think they prefer to keep their belief to themselves rather than open themselves up  to attack by the anti-H&L folks here on the forum.


Ah, so good that so many in this community have the courage of their convictions.

The fact is that they don't talk about it publicly because they hitched their wagons to this bullshit in the 1990s and got too invested in it to admit that they realize now it is bullshit.


Last edited by greg_parker on Tue 16 May 2023, 9:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
greg_parker
greg_parker
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Posts : 8349
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http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty Re: THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 15 May 2023, 1:19 pm
Jeff Carter @ the ed forum wrote:The Harvey and Lee hypothesis is:  a hypothesis. I don’t understand why some persons, beyond expressing disagreement with the hypothesis, deputize themselves and seek to not just police discussion on the topic but actively try to prevent such discussion. It is abundantly clear the concept of an Oswald doppelgänger / double has historic roots (discussed as early as 1964), and is part of the evidentiary trail.

I’m personally agnostic, but have found Harvey And Lee to be a valuable resource, and Armstrong a very good writer who asks the right questions and engages the reader. The self-appointed deputies are the annoyance.
Good grief!

You and I know it is a hypothesis, but to the faithful, it is Holy Writ. They speak of Harvey as a real historical fact. And that comes from the head Honcho. The Guru. The Creater of the myth. Where else could it come from.

People should not comment on this stuff without knowing the full history.

I largely specialize in Lee Oswald, so when I was a member at the ed forum, most of the threads I started were about him.

But every such thread I started immediately got hijacked by the H & L Goon Sqaud with their utter crap (and personal attacks when I objected)

I put up with it for a long time - until I realized the ed forum was going to do diddly squat about it. I then took matters into my own hands and got booted as a result. 

My loathing only intensified when I learned how John treats dissenters on even minor points. They are banished. If that is not cultlike behavior, then fuck knows what is.

Simply put, they picked the wrong person to poke.


Last edited by greg_parker on Mon 15 May 2023, 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Vinny
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THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty Re: THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 15 May 2023, 8:28 pm
From Ben Cole

As an aside, some researchers go to extraordinary efforts to exonerate LHO entirely even of an unwitting role in the JFKA. There is a blurry picture of someone on some steps, so that must be LHO on the TSBD first floor landing during the JFKA. That is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is value to testing hypotheses.

_________________
Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
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alex_wilson
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THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty Re: THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 15 May 2023, 8:36 pm
Thanks again Greg. 

The new " Humour and Satire " section seems like the perfect solution. I completely understand how a genuine researcher might get incredibly frustrated by their threads being sidetracked by my whimsical none too serious pastiches 

Indeed, as you rightly say,  I have often mentioned this fact. In my posts here and in my private emails/ messages to you, and other members. 

The last thing I ever want to do is to dilute or divert the focus,  or in anyway lessen the impact of the incredibly serious work that's being done here.

However,  in my opinion,  paraphrasing the great Soviet era writer/ dramatist Mikhail Bulgakov, " Sometimes a lighter touch is needed when dealing with dark subjects "

There's never been any malice behind what I write. Even in this very thread I admit to cringing occasionally when I read back some of what I have posted. I don't mean to cross any lines, but if I have I apologise. 

But the humour is there. Its undeniable. Accusing anyone who disagrees with a treasured pet theory of being some sort of disinformation agent, or COINTELPRO infiltrator. Some of the pet theories too. And some of the bizarre rationalisations offered up. Not to mention some of the " photo analysts "

Accusing me of being some bitter frazzled old coot, holed up in a survivalist basement hovel cum shrine to Churchill...if I'm somehow abhorrent or at fault for following these threads and commenting,  then,  surely,  at the same stroke, albeit inadvertently,  they are likewise criticising themselves. 

For are they not doing exactly the same thing?

I happen to think a little humour is a far better,  far healthier response than endlessly questioning each other's motives,  accusing each other of having dark agendas. 

To me it doesn't get much more ad hominem-y than asking someone outright " Are you a CIA agent?"

Or accusing them of being disinformation operatives,  paid to subvert the truth. 

For better or worse I only attempt to satirise what I see. How could I possibly feel any sort of animosity for people I don't know?

I happen to have a great deal of time for the good Dr Neiderhut,  sharing many of his tastes, Messrs Cotter and Barnard too. Even dear old Fezzo the Fez and Professor Larsen. 

I have absolutely no problem with criticism. How could I? It would be the height of hypocrisy. 

I'm delighted " humour and satire " have been given their own section.

The problems, imho, start when the so called research can be mistaken for unintentional humour and unintended satire!

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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alex_wilson
Posts : 1333
Join date : 2019-04-10

THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF  or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION  - Page 3 Empty Re: THE ONLY THING TO FEAR ABOUT INEVITABILITY IS THE INEVITABLE ITSELF or A PORTRAIT OF THE HOLLOW MEN IN MOTION

Mon 15 May 2023, 8:48 pm
Armstrong have mercy on us all!!

HARVEY and LEE has been downgraded to a mere hypothesis now? And Stevie Gaal,  in all his multi fonted  munificence ( his posts resembled the day glo excesses of a psychedelic William Topaz Mcgonnigall) has been wheeled out as some sort of Oracle,  the Delphi of Doppelgangerism. 

Wasn't one of the pythia's most famously elliptical enigmatic prophecies to do with some sort of doppelganger related mischief?

Warning a great king ( Croesus of Lydia if my memory serves me correctly) if he goes to war he will end up destroying a great army?

Of course,  he went to war, and a great army was indeed destroyed. 

His own.

Perhaps puny bookish HARVEY meditated on those very words. Sitting under a tree in Lafayette Square,  in the balmy heat of a New Orleans afternoon,  waiting for his Juddufki to appear. 

The face that launched countless white vans and CIA " ice cream trucks "

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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alex_wilson
Posts : 1333
Join date : 2019-04-10

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Mon 15 May 2023, 11:49 pm
Since the topic of HARVEY and LEE ( according to the Quasar 2003 absolutists , double ( naturellement) capitalisation is the correct Orthodox nomenclature) double doppelganger " hypothesis " has reared its hydra like four heads, I thought it was only fair to admit( confess?) I too once bought Armstrong's narrative. 

Book, mind and Cinquer 

In fact it was only when I started examining his own sources/ footnotes and comparing his thesis with my own knowledge of Russian language/ culture that the doubts began to surface. 

Eventually transforming into a veritable tidal wave. Washing away my earlier naivety. 

To put it bluntly: I was once an all too eager acolyte. An adept,  seeking hidden clues, intoxicated by the vicarious thrill of forbidden knowledge. 

Once upon a time,  and in the not too distant past,  my younger self would have been amongst the most militant voices,  denouncing the doubters and disbelievers. 

Perhaps that's why I spend a disproportionate amount of time; satirising the overtly devout zeal of the handful of remaining followers,  or further emphasising the completely illogical,  ahistorical foundations this house of cards rests upon. 

Another thing has just recently struck me. To buy the wider HARVEY and LEE scenario ( bull necked all American doppelganger LEE sets up puny bookish Manhattan intellectual HARVEY) doesn't that imply the believers also must buy the thoroughly discredited Warren Commission scenario?

How does the fact that the American born LEE Oswald in the 6th floor windkw -who also,  according to the Orthodox Tenets of Doppelgangerism,  shot down Officer Tippit-just so happened to be one half of a decades long double doppelganger project, make the risible wafer thin case against him any more credible and believable?

To buy the full doppelganger scenario does that mean the believers now buy into the original Warren Report lie,  they originally excoriated?

Imho this is an area that hasn't been discussed enough. Basically,  on the most fundamental level, HARVEY and LEE is simply a conspiracy friendly make over of the original Warren Report lie 

Leaving out the killer " But of course it was Margie line", the sleight of hand employed when using the alleged Dorothy Marcum testimony( the actual witness statement directly contradicting Armstrong's claims), the failure even to mention the mastoidectomy problem,  the reliance on decades old testimony ( Thinking back over your own lifes could you honestly say you have a perfect recollection of an utterly meaningless incident- some nondescript kid crossing the street for example- that happened over 35 years ago?) Then there's the massaging of the Stripling " evidence " , and the non disclosure of the fact the key witness was an old college friend of one of the main theory backers? Are you honestly trying to tell me you wouldn't have screamed bloody murder if Kudlaty had been a pro Warren Commission witness?

Who just so happened to be an old college friend of McAdams or DVP? Who , purely accidentally of course,  forgot to divulge this little tidbit? I'm in no way implying any wrongdoing. But there was a clear conflict of interests that needed to be acknowledged. 

Once again,  if Kudlaty was a pro Warren Report witness are you seriously expecting me to believe the " CTers" would have permitted McAdams or DVP to brush it off? With a shrug of indifference?

Imho this is not how an objective seeker of fact behaves. To have any sort of integrity or credibility surely the writer/ researcher must provide all the relevant facts. To allow folk to come to an objective,  educated opinion?



Then there's the issues with the Felde testimony . And, to my mind at least,  and in a darkly ironic twist of hubris,  considering wholesale claims of fakery are a bedrock of the theory,  the clear indications of tampering with the so called Missing Tooth photo,  the alleged Bronx Zoo HARVEY snapshot,  and other pieces of photographic " evidence "

Some photos that have been used having absolutely zero reliable traceable provenance..

Then there's the more basic issues. Dr Neiderhut,  Mr Carter, I believe,  and forgive me if I am mistaken,  you have both written you have Russian friends/ acquaintances? In the good Dr Neiderhut's case he is a member of the Russian Orthodox church ( as I said if I am mistaken,  or misremembering I apologise)

I can just about manage basic spoken Russian,  and I grew up surrounded by native speakers.  Due to family/ academic circumstances. 

You are both intelligent men. With experience of native Russian speakers. You both must surely be aware the key to unravelling and understanding Oswald's linguistic aptitude is not his Russian,  but his ENGLISH 

Specifically his spoken English. 

Listen to LHO speak. Rather listen to the so called native Russian/ Hungarian polyglot doppelganger HARVEY speak English. 

The way he structures his sentences, his word placement and use of prepositions in particular. 

No way was he anything but a native born English speaker. 

Reading through the first hand source material,  it becomes perfectly apparent that the level LHO attained was perfectly explicable for a young man who possessed an aptitude for languages. 

Makes perfect sense. 

After all, if you were looking for someone to pose as a disaffected American youth,  a false defector. It would be perfectly logical to look for an American kid , with the appropriate linguistic skills and with a background to fit the legend. 

Why send a Hungarian/ Russian/ Venusian to pose as an American? If Oswald was to be sent on some sort of illegal like mission. Attempting to fit in with the local population then , theoretically at least,  the whole HARVEY and LEE theory might make some sense. 

But giving both doppelgangers the same name? And the dumpy fake mom imposter too?

It stretches credulity way beyond any rational breaking point. 

If you think about it,  giving both doppelgangers the same name destroys the whole purpose of the exercise. 

If a theoretical HARVEY like character did exist,  the obvious solution would be to create an identity for him, John Q Doppelganger. 

Think of the logistics involved in a decade plus double doppelganger project. If such a project HAD existed then it would most certainly have been Top Secret SCI, but yet, the HARVEY and LEE faithful have the likes of Bill Shelley and Jack Ruby being privy to the information. 

Take away the JFK assassination/ conspiracy angle. Look at the first hand documentation and then study the techniques of contemporary intelligence agencies. 

HARVEY and LEE is nothing but a clumsy riff on  Fleming/ Le Carre cold war espionage fiction. 

There is indeed strong evidence for some sort of impersonation ( Mexico City and the immediate run up to the assassination) but to parse this into an extravagant decades long project,  well, imho it's more than just one doppelganger too far...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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Tue 16 May 2023, 1:17 am
Alex wrote:There is indeed strong evidence for some sort of impersonation ( Mexico City and the immediate run up to the assassination) but to parse this into an extravagant decades long project,  well, imho it's more than just one doppelganger too far...
You're being far too generous, Alex.

Mexico City was not an impersonation since we know the dude/s used looked nothing like Oswald. What they used was simmply his name and his backstory. The did not care about matching his looks, personality or anything else. That alone indicates whatever it was about, it had zilch to do with the assassination.

The guy on the bus going to MC probably looked closest to him in terms of height/age at least. 

No impersonations in Dallas leading up to the assassination. They all have other explanations.

For example...

Odio - conflating two separate names of two of her visitors - Leon and Osvaldo Pino Pino.

Car dealership - the one and only real Lee Harvey Oswald

Ralph Yates - all "with Ruby" sightings - cafe sightings - all Carousel Club sightings - Crafard

Irving shop sightings - the real Oswald

The rifle range - I am sure I had thgis covered but can't recall off the top.  Straight misidentification was probably it.

----
The interstate sightings all come down to misidentification and psychological issues of the informants. 

If you give them that "inch", you know they will parlay it into proof of a two decade old sperm bank experimental doppelganging operation. Give 'em nothing not earned by the sweat of their typing fingers and take 'em nowhere except to the cleaners.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

https://gregrparker.com
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alex_wilson
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Tue 16 May 2023, 9:02 pm
You're probably right Greg. To be honest I was writing from memory,  not having studied the specific incidents you describe, in detail,  for a considerable period of time. 

Crafard most certainly seems like the most obvious solution for the " Ruby" sightings.

One thing ive noticed about " High Conspiracy Logic " is the unwillingness even to countenance simple human fallibility. 

No one ever makes a mistake,  forgets an insignificant detail or otherwise fucks up.

No, everything is held up to some,  apparently wholly,  arbitrary level,  or else imbued with sinister overtones. 

All other high profile crimes attract a spate of misidentifications,  bullshit merchants and hangers on.

Except for the JFK assassination. 

Apparently. 

The HARVEY and LEE " hypothesis " may well be the most pernicious example. 

As soon as a little of the ole conspiracy stardust is sprinkled on top, all of a sudden,  as if by magic, even the wholly spurious Warren Commission verdict becomes believable. 

Lee Oswald,  anonymous 24 year old warehouse worker shooting JFK from a 6th floor window?

Impossible 

LEE Oswald,  the bull necked all American, half of history's most infamous double doppelganger act, fake shooting JFK out a 6th floor window? To set up his puny intellectual Hungarian polyglot doppelganger?

Absolutely!! No doubt about it!! Tippit too? Damn tootin' 

Armstrong have mercy on us all

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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Wed 17 May 2023, 2:37 pm
John Cotter @ the ed foeum wrote:These self-styled brilliant researchers seem to lack confidence in their findings. Otherwise, they wouldn’t feel threatened by alternative views or by the supposed inability of their readers to judge for themselves which views make the most sense.

The only thing resembling "self-styling" is the accurate claim that ROKC is the only forum actively seeking to reopen the case via new leads and evidence. But it is hardly just SELF-styling since you and many others have acknowledged the quality of the work done here. 

You demean yourself by stooping to the fallacious arguments of lone nutters in an effort to point score.

It is not anyone here who implores the "dear readers" to consider my argument. But I have seen that used by a number of posters at the ed forum. 

Examples from the two main offenders:

"And, if you, dear reader, have felt uneasy even simply reading this paper, this bears testament to how effective this denigration has been." Steve Gaal

"OK dear reader. . so now,  if you have studied what I have just written" Davis Lifton


As I have said before, progress is not just via new research, but also by removal of the crap from the table. It can take years, if ever, to scrub the effects of propaganda and phony history. 

"Threatened"? Hardly on a personal level. But we are all damaged when dis and mininiformation is allowed to take hold. 

Those who feel threatened tho, do resort to some pretty cheap point-scoring tactics. Don't know what the fuck I ever did to you. 

It is good to see that you seem to have found some soul-mates. That's not a bad thing for anyone in the short-term... and sometimes even in the long.  


Jimmy di @ the ed forum wrote:I just have to ask:

How many people here have read John's 900 page book en toto?

Especially curious about those who trash it who have not read it.

Greg Parker admits he has not read the whole book.

So I would like to ask if Jonathan had read the whole book and if Jeremy has read the whole book?
And yet another fallacious argument from someone who should know better.

It is fallacious because I have never attacked everything in the book. I have attacked only the patently and stupendously erroneous portions of it splattered all over the web.


Last edited by greg_parker on Wed 17 May 2023, 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wed 17 May 2023, 9:44 pm
For what it's worth I agree completely with Mr Cotter.  Of course people should read the book/ appropriate documents etc and come to their own conclusions. 

I don't think anyone here has ever suggested otherwise. 

But,  surely to reach such a conclusion readers must be presented with all the available information? Laid out clearly , sans commentary. Completely neutral and impartial. 

That's one of my biggest problems with H and L the hypothesis,  and H and L  the book. 

The utter lack of impartiality. 

And that's putting it INCREDIBLY mildly. 

Facts were habitually distorted,  massaged or ignored completely if they didn't fit snugly into the doppelganger template. As for witness statements?

When I first read the book ( Yes, and I have read it) one of the strongest pieces of corroborative evidence was Myrtle Evans' testimony. Here was someone who knew Marguerite and Lee intimately,  appearing to confirm the " fake mom " hypothesis. 

When I later discovered Armstrong had left out the punchline " But of course it was Margie " I was genuinely taken aback. 

Then I found out about the issues surrounding the mastoidectomy. And , eh,  the slight irregularity surrounding the hospital one of the ingenue would be doppelgangers in waiting were taken to for " mental tests" before assuming their ( co) starring roles...

Namely,  the fucking hospital didn't exist at the time!!

As for the mastoidectomy? Apparently " they" surreptitiously decapitated LEE Oswald's corpse,  and,  after staging a top secret intel spook exhumation,  " they " proceeded to replace poor old LEE doppelgangers head with HARVEY's ( the ever resourceful masterminds having brought the disembodied doppelganger head with them in a box, perhaps in a poignant twist it was an old CIA lunchbox? Containing the thermos HARVEY used to smuggle the mouse tumours down to Mexico City. Wake up sheeple!! Are we really supposed to believe the FBI couldn't find witnesses? Even down in rural Texas, back in the day,  I'm pretty damn certain an intellectual polyglot doppelganger,  feeding crackers into a thermos full of voracious mouse tumours,  wasn't exactly a commonplace sight on buses to Mexico City. Or, indeed anywhere,  outside the fetid,  somewhat overheated imagination of a certain " witness "/ author/ poet/ cancer research prodigy/ polymath. And may well have raised a couple of eyebrows. " Hey, maw,  look at that there puny little pipsqueak,  feeding crumbs into his thermos,  what's he mumbling on about? Minnie goddamn Mouse!! I bet he's one of 'em communist intellectual types, like 'em no good egghead varmints the Rosenbergs,  gimme a quarter,  at the next stop I'm gonna call Sheriff Bertrand back in Alice, you know how much he hates em filthy reds "

Or perhaps they were a tad more cautious,  using a Dremel drill to mastoidectomy-ify poor HARVEY's corpse, talk about indignity!! Or maybe they just faked a couple of documents.

Duh! Of course,  I was forgetting the preternatural clairvoyance of the omniscient sponsors!! Anticipating the furore caused by the H and L fantasy,  eh,  sorry,  hypothesis,  they simply gave BOTH 6 year old doppelettes a mastoidectomy!! 

And some folk worry about a few fucking comedic skits impugning the image of JFK assassination research in the outside world?

How can anyone hope to reach an informed educated opinion when some of the key facts have been omitted,  or mangled beyond recognition?

As I said I have read the book,  not that it's really possible to read it in any conventional sense. 

It's a garbled meandering hodge podge. Like the titular book in Borges ' " Garden of Forking Paths "
Facts and characters emerging like the prows of phantom ships from the fog, before vanishing again 

If the " Garden of Forking Paths " had been written by the author of the Hardy Boys. Who, after a midlife crisis and a failed romance with a 19 year old would be starlet,  decided to write the Great American Spy Novel..

The problem isn't so much the book itself,  rather,  what was left OUT of the book. 

In the grand scheme of things my opinion of HARVEY and LEE is beyond irrelevant. How on earth could I possibly feel threatened by it?

Taking this argument to it's logical conclusion were/ are all the generations of critics simply threatened by the Warren Report?

I'd only be too happy to discuss the individual details. If you think I'm wrong about LHO's linguistic skills,  if you think he was in fact a native speaker of Russian/ Hungarian,  fair enough. 

If, by some miracle the HARVEY and LEE hypothesis ( and by extension the original Warren Report verdict) was proven to be correct,  apart from making me seriously reconsider the Cottingley Fairies,  Andrew Basangio's claims of time travelling to Venus with Barack Obama,  via DARPA jump rooms and John Butler's photo analysis, my life wouldn't be the slightest bit affected. 

As for Ms Browns admonitions? what's the old saying about those who do their reincarnating in glass vortexes playing magic flutes?

Perhaps before spending nearly a decade as one of Judyth Vary Baker's two major online enablers,  repeatedly and savagely attacking anyone who dared ask a shred of supportive evidence to back up the ever more fantastical ( not to mention ever changing) claims,  she should have taken a moment or two to ponder over the wisdom of her own advice 

It doesn't matter to me if people find Armstrong's hypothesis convincing,  or if they decide David Joseph's various doodles are compelling ( personally,  his collages-full of severed doppelganger heads floating around like the banquet scene in Robert Crumb's freak brothers friendly comic book version of Macbeth,  above hectic friezes of various disembodied doppelparts,  assembled,  seemingly at random,  and covered with scribbled hieroglyphics,  as if Syd fucking Barrett had attempted to decipher the Rosetta Stone,  out of his tits on STP, remind me of some nightmarishly apocalyptic Bosch inspired hellscape,  dreamt by the Eraserhead era David Cronenberg) Or if they are driven to new  heights of doppelgangery ecstasy by Stevie Gaal's multi fonted masterpieces, or Jimbo Baggins carnival barker spiel..

Incidentally,  none of the remaining HARVEY and LEE supporters have even mentioned , imho, the blatant attempt to blacken LHOs mouth in the so called Missing Tooth photo. Once you notice it, it's just so glaringly obvious. 

A thick black line that bleeds over onto the bottom lip.

Or, come to think of it,  none of them have tried explaining the anomalous nose on the Bronx Zoo HARVEY,  or the distorted Frankenstein like Oswald,  no, to be fair,  Jimbo did try to brush that particular incident off.

People have gotten frustrated because it's absolutely impossible to discuss,  or debate these issues semi rationally with the doppelgang. 

Look what happened to Greg, and more recently Mark Stevens,  who meticulously assembled what was, imho, one of the best,  most thorough forensic debunking ive ever seen on a debate forum. 

He was greeted with howls of outrage,  abuse and the inevitable accusations. Not forgetting Dr Norwood's heroic attempts to have the pesky heretic banished. 

Finally he was met with the uncomprehending stare of the fundamentalist,  followed by Jimbo Baggins constant regurgitations of Holy Scripture 

It would indeed be churlish to dismiss Armstrong's generous donation,  placing his vast archive at the disposal of interested parties via Baylor University. 

But,  for every yin there must be a yang,  if his positive contributions are to be celebrated,  and put into their true perspective,  then surely the negative -the havoc, the internecine contrempts ( putting it INCREDIBLY politely) and the general ill feeling the controversy surrounding his hypothesis has caused- must be taken into consideration. 

Ultimately,  as well as widening the fissures that divide thus so called community,  into,  what appear to be,  unbridgeable chasms,  has his hypothesis really helped advance the understanding of this case?

Or has it only succeeded in further polluting an already poisonous abyss of irresponsible speculation and tin foil hat theorizing?

Even the staunchest advocates haven't seemed to realise that by supporting the HARVEY and LEE theory,  they are, by extension,  supporting the original Warren Report Fable. 

Unless being one half of a double doppelganger act imbued LEE with preternatural abilities,  transforming the illogical and,  in many cases, counterfeit claims of the Warren Report- claims,  they incidentally have spent numerous years vociferously disputing- suddenly making them  seem perfectly reasonable

To quote the famous Stoic Philosopher,  Thomas of Trailerparke,  " LOL"

And to quote a certain,   thoroughly disreputable COINTELPRO disruption troll , " Armstrong have mercy on us all "

P.S. Just out of interest,  I wonder what our chums over on La Tete de 13 Pouces would have thought,  or said, if, after the recent,  ahem, vigorous exchange of opinions,  one of us changed our avatar,  replacing the old photo, with a new one,  a slightly blurred shot of one of us, standing,  cradling a fucking SHOTGUN!!

Incidentally,  has Master Bernard been permanently banished from Lord Gordo's mead hall,? Ignominiously exiled to toil on his Lordship's thriving estate over on Beckett's Mound?

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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