A House of Cards?

Fri 30 Aug 2013, 9:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

In a couple of days I will be posting a very long essay that I have been putting together for many months with the assistance of Greg Parker and Hasan Yusuf.

One of Robert Charles-Dunne's recent posts has already made me very aware of the standard of proof some people will require before dispensing with a wide variety of myths that have long been accepted as established truth. I will be very open to constructive criticism, questions and observations but more than anything else I need your help to keep digging further and further into the old narrative to see if we can establish a new and more accurate one.

Before I post my work I figured I'd get the ball rolling starting with a quote from Robert's post on the Prayer Man thread followed by some questions.

Robert Charles-Dunne said "I am open to persuasion regarding whether or not Oswald lived at the Beckley boarding house, but haven’t yet encountered anything that proves conclusively he lived elsewhere, or even suggests a reason for having fabricated his tenancy there."

For many of you reading this you probably didn't know what Robert was referring to. Robert has known for some length of time that I had started trying to deconstruct Oswald's tenancy at 1026 North Beckley. The more information I have collected the more I have become convinced that he never lived there.

So, as a series of starter questions, using points made in RCD's post:

i). What evidence do we possess that suggests Oswald lived at Mrs. Gladys Johnson's rooming house at 1026 North Beckley?

ii). What evidence do we possess that suggests an imposter lived at 1026 North Beckley?

ii). Do we have to prove Oswald lived elsewhere to prove he didn't live at 1026 North Beckley?

iii). What possible reasons could there have been "for having fabricated his tenancy" at 1026 North Beckley?

Seeing as how Sean Murphy has recently tried to dismantle one large Lee Oswald myth, let's keep the motivation going and see what happens with this one.

Thanks

Lee

Fri 13 Sep 2013, 8:25 pm

Good Lord Almighty.

You've caught J Ray's disease. Shakespearean couplets!

Sat 14 Sep 2013, 2:06 am

greg parker wrote:Good Lord Almighty.

You've caught J Ray's disease. Shakespearean couplets!

I admit he may have unconsciously influenced me but rest assured I will not be posting any baby photos or pictures of the Irish coast. Also, his couplets have now been reduced to one word.

I may have been mistaken in my initial belief that Ray Carroll has been adding 120 replies to his own bizarre Seamus Heaney thread to be a complete gonad.

Daniel may be correct. It's possible that Carroll is now officially stark raving bonkers. geek

Sat 14 Sep 2013, 4:31 pm

Lee Farley wrote:

greg parker wrote:Good Lord Almighty.

You've caught J Ray's disease. Shakespearean couplets!

I admit he may have unconsciously influenced me but rest assured I will not be posting any baby photos or pictures of the Irish coast. Also, his couplets have now been reduced to one word.

I may have been mistaken in my initial belief that Ray Carroll has been adding 120 replies to his own bizarre Seamus Heaney thread to be a complete gonad....

'Tis one long damn song indeed
But who would have believed
That so much effort he would need
To prove himself a complete gonad

(look, they can't always rhyme perfectly)

Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:13 pm

Fri 11 Oct 2013, 7:12 am

I don't recall if this has been pointed out on the forum previously, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Mrs A.C Johnson told the FBI that when the DPD searched "Oswald's" room following his arrest, they bent one of the curtain rods which she then had to replace.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11103&relPageId=2

Regardless of whether the DPD did this accidentally or on purpose, I think it certainly would explain why they shoved the curtain rod story down Buell Wesley Frazier's throat.

Fri 11 Oct 2013, 8:29 am

There may be another explanation for the genesis of the curtain rods story, Hasan:

Mr. Frazier:

"I worked in a department store before and I had uncrated curtain rods when they come in, and I know if you have seen when they come straight from the factory you know how they can bundle them up and put them in there pretty compact, so he told me it was curtain rods so I didn't think any more about the package whatsoever."

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol2/page229.php

Fri 11 Oct 2013, 3:53 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:I don't recall if this has been pointed out on the forum previously, but I thought I'd post it anyway. Mrs A.C Johnson told the FBI that when the DPD searched "Oswald's" room following his arrest, they bent one of the curtain rods which she then had to replace.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11103&relPageId=2

Regardless of whether the DPD did this accidentally or on purpose, I think it certainly would explain why they shoved the curtain rod story down Buell Wesley Frazier's throat.

Hasan,

I can't imagine the Johnson's not seeking compensation from the DPD for the damage done. I don't think we'll ever find anything verifying that such compensation was sought.

Isn't there a photo somewhere showing her hanging the replacement/s?

Sat 12 Oct 2013, 12:34 am

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:There may be another explanation for the genesis of the curtain rods story, Hasan:

Mr. Frazier:

"I worked in a department store before and I had uncrated curtain rods when they come in, and I know if you have seen when they come straight from the factory you know how they can bundle them up and put them in there pretty compact, so he told me it was curtain rods so I didn't think any more about the package whatsoever."

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol2/page229.php

Thanks, Robert. I'll keep that in mind.

greg parker wrote:Hasan,

I can't imagine the Johnson's not seeking compensation from the DPD for the damage done. I don't think we'll ever find anything verifying that such compensation was sought.

Isn't there a photo somewhere showing her hanging the replacement/s?

Greg,

Perhaps the corrupt DPD told her to keep her mouth shut about what she saw, if she knew what was good for her. In the meantime, I'll look for the photo.

Sun 15 Dec 2013, 2:47 am

I'm bumping this thread because of its connection with the Meharg thread (both really provocative) and because I also forgot to report on what tourists hear when they visit 1026 N. Beckley today, as I did on the Lancer tour I took during my trip to Dallas on the 50th.

Gladys Johnson's granddaughter is now proprietor. She reiterates that "Mr. Lee" was not a recluse who stayed in his "room" but was sociable and interacted with other roomers; that the authorities arrived suspiciously early on 11/22; that there were already curtains and rods on the windows in that cubbyhole he rented. But she also tells a story which is meant to prove that Mr. Lee could not have been a violent misfit: her two brothers once got into a fight on the lawn outside the front door when Mr. Lee went out to them and stopped them, sat them down, and lectured them on how they as brothers should be supportive and love each other. She also claims the three of them were not allowed to watch TV, ironically, until Sunday morning, the implication being that they were being protected from seeing in custody the person with whom they had supposedly talked and played with. She also claims Earlene Roberts tended to embellish what she related in order to lend herself importance.

I offer this up here without vouching for any of it (it seems some of it may simply be embroidery on top of a selection from the record).

A House of Cards? - Page 2 Img_1614_800x600

A House of Cards? - Page 2 Img_1614_800x600

Sun 15 Dec 2013, 3:10 am

Albert Rossi wrote:I'm bumping this thread because of its connection with the Meharg thread (both really provocative) and because I also forgot to report on what tourists hear when they visit 1026 N. Beckley today, as I did on the Lancer tour I took during my trip to Dallas on the 50th.

Gladys Johnson's granddaughter is now proprietor. She reiterates that "Mr. Lee" was not a recluse who stayed in his "room" but was sociable and interacted with other roomers; that the authorities arrived suspiciously early on 11/22; that there were already curtains and rods on the windows in that cubbyhole he rented. But she also tells a story which is meant to prove that Mr. Lee could not have been a violent misfit: her two brothers once got into a fight on the lawn outside the front door when Mr. Lee went out to them and stopped them, sat them down, and lectured them on how they as brothers should be supportive and love each other. She also claims the three of them were not allowed to watch TV, ironically, until Sunday morning, the implication being that they were being protected from seeing in custody the person with whom they had supposedly talked and played with. She also claims Earlene Roberts tended to embellish what she related in order to lend herself importance.

I offer this up here without vouching for any of it (it seems some of it may simply be embroidery on top of a selection from the record).

Hi Albert,

I spoke to Pat last year at the Lancer conference. She is a really nice lady but some of the things she was saying are completely detached from reality. I had already began playing around with the idea that Oswald never lived there but I didn't have the heart to broach any of it with her because this is obviously her business now and I believe she is trying to sell the house. It was a damn shame that I knew more about the history of her grandmothers tenants in October/November 1963 and got to a point where the evidence placint him as a tenant wouldn't fill a thimble.

Her grandmother was a witness who played by the Warren Commission rules and as a consequence got a very easy ride when she should have been placed over hot coals. But the fix was long in before she turned up to her deposition with that piece of scrap paper in her purse. It beggars belief that this case against Oswald was allowed to progress and steam on with evidence not just given away to witnesses but some of the most important evidence not even being collected. For starters I cannot believe the tenant registers, that Johnson claimed they had, were not collected.

Amy Gladys Johnson was a great WC witness. She rolled over when asked to roll over and she changed her story when required. One minute she didn't know Oswald was married when he was staying there. Next minute she did. Her dates on when Oswald first turned up were originally off by a few weeks! She listed her husband as a tenant to boost her numbers so the rooming house looked full.

I don't care what anybody says, there is something got right with this house and it's association with a Ruby stripper (Wanda Killam) who was obviously dating a Beckley tenant behind her husbands back - the husband being a friend of Jack's - just tells us that something was going on there and now we have Mildred Meharg having an affair with a police officer who later went on to marry a man who an anonymous caller tried to repeatedly link to the Beckley house and my sixth sense is all over the place.

Sun 15 Dec 2013, 3:28 am

Lee, thanks for the quick response. I didn't know whether you were aware of Pat's stories, just wanted to make sure. As I stood there in the house listening to her I kept thinking of you (and Greg) and this thread I had recently read. I took it all in with a big grain of salt. The connection through Meharg certainly makes this locale all the more suspicious.

P.S., yes indeed, she is trying to sell it (and you can see the sign on the front lawn).

Sun 15 Dec 2013, 4:01 am

If I had the money I'd buy it from her and open it up for some Hank and Wanda Killam, H (Herbert) Lee, and Larry Crafard tours.

Very Happy

Fri 20 Dec 2013, 5:00 am

On November 25, 1963, Mrs Amy Gladys Johnson who owned 1026 North Beckley told SA's Hardin and Rawlings of the FBI that she did not know Lee Oswald was married because he furnished no information concerning his background.

A House of Cards? - Page 2 Image133

Three days later on November 28, 1963, she says tells Bardwell Odum of the FBI the complete opposite. She now claimed that Oswald told her that he would be gone almost every weekend to visit his wife. It is this second version of Johnson's statement that would become part of the official story that she would later take into her Warren Commission testimony.

This is how the lies started, very small, but they are there in the record for all to see. Bardwell Odum seemed to have a knack of getting witnesses to tell a different account of their experiences when the occasion necessitated it.

Fri 20 Dec 2013, 5:46 am

Notice how the observation about his telephone calls and speaking in an unidentified foreign language are now absent from the Odum version?

Question: was Dallas to Irving a local call?

Sat 28 Dec 2013, 11:04 am

Albert,

I'll try to find the answer to your question tomorrow. My guess is yes but I'll check.

On the subject of checking I have to admit error. Gladys Johnson did not really flip flop on the subject of knowing Oswald was married. I went back and rechecked all the statements and her testimony. She was pretty consistent in claiming she didn't know. I was convinced she was asked in her testimony but she wasn't. Neither was a Earlene Roberts. Which I find a bit strange that neither of them were asked whether Oswald told them. But in checkng this out I think I've found something even more curious that I will outline tomorrow.

There is also another area I will exploring tomorrow and that is the subject of Oswald's weekend trips to Irving. Have a look at the last statement of Johnson's I posted above. She lists the "only exceptions" to Oswald's routine of travelling to Irving on a Friday and coming back Monday. There is a big "exception" missing. Can you work out which one? A big event that took place in October is not listed as an exception but this event saw him allegedly staying in Irving on a Monday night as well as the Friday, Daturday and Sunday nights.

Sun 29 Dec 2013, 6:36 am

So ultimately how do you read the statement in the Odum report? It seems to me that using indirect speech (the report stating what Johnson stated Oswald stated, all in the third person) creates ambiguity. At first blush, it looks like that knowledge (he went home to see his family) is attributed to her through Oswald, but the clause beginning "since" could also be read as an afterthought, for the purpose of qualifying the basic fact of his absence, but not really part of the reported direct statement made to her by Oswald ("he told her he would be absent"). Deliberately devious?

Sun 29 Dec 2013, 9:03 am

Albert Rossi wrote:So ultimately how do you read the statement in the Odum report? It seems to me that using indirect speech (the report stating what Johnson stated Oswald stated, all in the third person) creates ambiguity. At first blush, it looks like that knowledge (he went home to see his family) is attributed to her through Oswald, but the clause beginning "since" could also be read as an afterthought, for the purpose of qualifying the basic fact of his absence, but not really part of the reported direct statement made to her by Oswald ("he told her he would be absent"). Deliberately devious?

Bardwell Odum was a master craftsman when it came to constructing his FBI reports with enough ambiguity that avenues for changes in story could be left behind. My guess is that this is what this was, Albert. In case of emergency break glass. I think it is deliberately devious as you point out especially if Gladys Johnson had previously claimed she didn't know Oswald was married. By the time this interview was committed to the report I don't believe the entire story of Oswald's whereabouts had been fully fleshed out and ambiguity was perhaps what was required.

Thu 03 Apr 2014, 11:55 am

I was directed to this thread through a comment in Hasan's review of With Malice (part two) and it seems that another segment was promised for "tomorrow" about another missed weekend trip to Irving as well as something else he discovered that was "curious" about either Gladys Johnson or Earlene Roberts.

Was a new thread started? Or was this conversation dropped?

Sat 05 Apr 2014, 7:18 am

terlin wrote:I was directed to this thread through a comment in Hasan's review of With Malice (part two) and it seems that another segment was promised for "tomorrow" about another missed weekend trip to Irving as well as something else he discovered that was "curious" about either Gladys Johnson or Earlene Roberts.

Was a new thread started? Or was this conversation dropped?

Terlin,

Not sure exactly what you're referring to above, so could you please post the section(s) of my review you are referring to?

Sat 05 Apr 2014, 8:38 am

Terlin,

I don't believe Lee ever followed up on this conversation before leaving the forum.

Al

Sat 05 Apr 2014, 10:43 am

Albert,

Thanks. I wonder what the continuation was going to be?

Hasan,

The passage is from the fifth paragraph of Part Two of your review:

Readers should bear in mind that no ammunition for the revolver was found by the DPD at the rooming house at 1026 North Beckley where Oswald was allegedly living at the time of the assassination. Although a holster (WCE 144) was allegedly found at the rooming house by the DPD, researcher Lee Farley has demonstrated that it was actually Larry Crafard who was living at the rooming house and not Oswald! (See the thread entitled A House of Cards? on Greg Parker's research forum Reopen Kennedy Case).

That's how I came to look for the thread.

Sun 06 Apr 2014, 2:43 pm

Terlin,

I will return to this subject once the shite has been bagged up from this forum and put in the trash.

Sun 06 Apr 2014, 11:15 pm

Thanks, Lee.

And here's to a speedy evacuation.

Sun 27 Apr 2014, 11:37 pm

I'm not trying to rush Lee into resuming this thread but I was wondering,

If Lee gave his address on his arrest as a house on Elsbeth, did anyone actually check out that address?

And if Crafard was the tenant on Beckley, was the minox camera his? And, if so, does that mean he was involved in intelligence work as well?

Mon 28 Apr 2014, 1:14 am

terlin wrote:I'm not trying to rush Lee into resuming this thread but I was wondering,

If Lee gave his address on his arrest as a house on Elsbeth, did anyone actually check out that address?

And if Crafard was the tenant on Beckley, was the minox camera his? And, if so, does that mean he was involved in intelligence work as well?

From memory, Elsbeth wasn't checked in the initial 24 hours, Terry.

The problem with the addresses really begins to boggle the mind once you begin to look into them. If you would think one part of the investigation would be very simple to look into it would be where this guy lived. Not so. It's as fucked up as any other part of the story.

If Oswald, upon leaving the TSBD, gave Elsbeth as his address to police officer guarding the entrances/exist (with an incorrect house number) then we know from Revill's statements that this information was typed up at approximately 3pm that afternoon so he more than likely had this information in his possession when Oswald was first brought into the homicide office so one would expect this info to be passed to Fritz straight away. Revill's story concerning having possession of the Elsbeth address was that it was given to him by someone else at DPD HQ - name unrecalled. Similar to Fritz forgetting who told him that Oswald lived at 1026 North Beckley.

So the whole situation concerning the addresses is another quagmire we have to navigate. Fritz was given Oswald's address as the Paine residence by Roy Truly almost immediately after he arrived at the TSBD and said he was going to visit the address personally. Yet, he was then called over to Deckers office and didn't bother going to Irving or for that matter sending anybody else.

We then have some of the arresting officers stating they had information that Oswald's residence was Elsbeth or "Elizabeth" if quoting Paul Bentley. This marrying up with Revill's information.

Fritz being given the information about Beckley is also a head wrecker and the situation concerning sending men there BEFORE he sent them to Irving is just too much to swallow.

To cap it all off, according to Fritz's interrogation notes, Oswald denied living at the Neely Street property.

I don't have the energy right now to restart the thread concerning Beckley but on the subject of Crafard, I would not be surprised if this man was working for intelligence. He most probably was the actual person mistaken for Oswald on occasions over in Oak Cliff and other Dallas environs as per many FBI reports. Ruby's meetings with Bertha Cheek were very likely NOT about buying some mysterious club. The North Beckley property, some of its occupants, and its owners are pretty dodgy.

I'd just ask for other members here to try and build on what I have presented or offer a different set of scenarios explaining some of the strange aspects of Oswald's alleged tenancy at this strange house...

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