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Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Empty Prayer Man

Sat 14 Dec 2013, 11:07 am
First topic message reminder :

Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

___________________________________________________________________________________________________


G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

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Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Empty Re: Prayer Man

Tue 06 Sep 2022, 2:23 pm
Thanks Steely.

I figured that brain-eating amoeba would have finished its work by now, but then, the Sanibel subspecies is slow acting. Flaming hamsters and parental controls. Time for some popcorn.
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Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Empty Re: Prayer Man

Tue 06 Sep 2022, 2:34 pm
Vinny wrote:As for Frazier - one of his biggest allies took him to task over a particular new claim in his book - no - not one he has presented at conferences or anywhere else - his response? You gotta give the readers what they want!

 Was that the stuff about the man with the gun, Greg?
Yes, Vinny. That was it.

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Tue 06 Sep 2022, 9:36 pm
The irony. His book is called Steering Truth and he deliberately lies in it.

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Sat 17 Sep 2022, 10:35 pm
Oswald's outline visible for the first time. Terrible quality and the pixelation does funny things with his neckline, face etc but once again he ain't no 350lbs heffer wearing a wig for professional reasons either.
Doyle must be foaming at the mouth once again. It is not easy being outclassed and outgunned time and time again....
It is not easy being a delusional CTer twat.

Keep trying Doyle maybe one day......

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Prayer14

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Wed 21 Sep 2022, 2:25 pm
barto wrote:Oswald's outline visible for the first time. Terrible quality and the pixelation does funny things with his neckline, face etc but once again he ain't no 350lbs heffer wearing a wig for professional reasons either.
Doyle must be foaming at the mouth once again. It is not easy being outclassed and outgunned time and time again....
It is not easy being a delusional CTer twat.

Keep trying Doyle maybe one day......

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Prayer14

What’s the deal with this neckline business - cause if these were the only frames I’d ever seen of Darnell I’d honestly guess I was looking a woman. Yes I know the quality is shit and that it’s just a blurry image etc. etc., but it seems pretty questionable to advocate for PM as Oswald based on the distinctly Oswaldian hairline in one frame while stating that the distinctly rounded neckline in another frame is just a pixelation artifact, IMO. If skin tone can spread out so much and so evenly during the digitization process across PM’s upper chest, surely it could do the same thing on PM’s head. Also, the hairline in these frames does not appear to be receding very far, and I don’t see any features that look particularly masculine to me at all. 

I want PM to be Oswald as much as anyone, and I think the evidence suggesting that Oswald was by the front entrance around the time of the shots is very compelling, but where do we draw the line with image interpretation? What determines whether or not a particular aggregate of pixels represents an actual feature vs. Rorschach test bullshit? How clear does a frame need to be before it provides a reasonable basis for questioning PM’s identity without getting criticized for making a simple observation? 

I think that obtaining better scans of Darnell and Weigman should be the number one priority of the JFKA research community, and I’ll support that effort in any way I can - but this forum could really use a rational dissenting opinion on PM every now and then. I think the questions I’ve asked here are pretty rational, so hopefully someone will attempt to answer them. 

In a nutshell, my question is this: why is it acceptable to use the apparently receding hairline in one blurry frame of Darnell to support the notion that PM is Oswald while rejecting equally apparent features in other frames that support a non-Oswald identification?
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Wed 21 Sep 2022, 8:37 pm
Another crazy theory from a former PM supporter.

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Scree217

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Wed 21 Sep 2022, 11:42 pm
JFK_FNG wrote:
barto wrote:Oswald's outline visible for the first time. Terrible quality and the pixelation does funny things with his neckline, face etc but once again he ain't no 350lbs heffer wearing a wig for professional reasons either.
Doyle must be foaming at the mouth once again. It is not easy being outclassed and outgunned time and time again....
It is not easy being a delusional CTer twat.

Keep trying Doyle maybe one day......

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Prayer14

What’s the deal with this neckline business - cause if these were the only frames I’d ever seen of Darnell I’d honestly guess I was looking a woman. Yes I know the quality is shit and that it’s just a blurry image etc. etc., but it seems pretty questionable to advocate for PM as Oswald based on the distinctly Oswaldian hairline in one frame while stating that the distinctly rounded neckline in another frame is just a pixelation artifact, IMO.

AS IF THERE IS NO PIXELATION.
WHICH FRAME IS YOUR WOMAN IN?


I SEE;

A) LEATHERFACE
Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Zombod69




B) KID FROM MASK

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Zombod70
C) ET

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Zombod71
D) ALF

Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Zombod72

NONE APPEAR FEMALE AS THAT IS INDETERMINENT FROM THE IMAGES.

YOU SAY THAT THE HAIRLINE DOESNT MATCH THE OTHER PM IMAGES... DUH ITS PIXELATED THEREFORE NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THAT USE.
IT IS OKAY TO DETERMINE BODY SHAPE FROM THE FRAMES AS THAT PORTION IS NOT PIXELATED OR DISTORTED.
COMPARE THE BODY VS FACIAL ACROSS THE SIX FRAMES... DOES THE BODY GROW EXTRA LIMBS OR CHANGE DRAMATICALLY.
NO.


If skin tone can spread out so much and so evenly during the digitization process across PM’s upper chest,

ARE YOU SAYIN LEE IS TOPLESS
OR HAS CHEST SHOWING????
WHAT IMAGE HAS THIS?

PM WEARS A WORK SHIRT WITH A TSHIRT UNDER IT. WHAT CHESTICLES ARE VISIBLE?


surely it could do the same thing on PM’s head. Also, the hairline in these frames does not appear to be receding very far, and I don’t see any features that look particularly masculine to me at all. 


THEN GET A BETTER IMAGE... SHEESH THISCIS FOR BODY PORTIONS NOT FACIAL RECOGNITION FFS!


I want PM to be Oswald as much as anyone,

SOUNDS DOUBTFUL.

and I think the evidence suggesting that Oswald was by the front entrance around the time of the shots is very compelling,

COMPELLING? ITS IN BLACK AND WHITE, BOTH ON FILM AND IN DOCUMENTS...

but where do we draw the line with image interpretation?

THE IMAGE ITSELF

What determines whether or not a particular aggregate of pixels represents an actual feature vs. Rorschach test bullshit?


THE IMAGE AND SURROUNDING FRAMES TELL YOU THAT INFORMATION.

How clear does a frame need to be before it provides a reasonable basis for questioning PM’s identity without getting criticized for making a simple observation? 

WHEN THE IMAGE SUPPORTS THE CLAIM


I think that obtaining better scans of Darnell and Weigman should be the number one priority of the JFKA research community, and I’ll support that effort in any way I can - but this forum could really use a rational dissenting opinion on PM every now and then.

GREAT GO FIND ONE. 

I think the questions I’ve asked here are pretty rational, so hopefully someone will attempt to answer them. 


NO. YOU ARE USING BAD IMAGES TO MAKE A BAD CASE FOR PM.

In a nutshell, my question is this: why is it acceptable to use the apparently receding hairline in one blurry frame of Darnell to support the notion that PM is Oswald while rejecting equally apparent features in other frames that support a non-Oswald identification?


BECAUSE THAT FRAME IS NOT BLURRY ITS RELATIVELY SHARP COMPARITIVELY.
YOU ARE USING THE BLURRY ONES TO TRY TO MAKE A False equivalence.

BEING OBJECTIVE RATHER THAN SUBJECTIVE HELPS.
CHEERS!
ED
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Thu 22 Sep 2022, 12:33 am
You beat me to it, Ed. It is the quality of the images that makes the difference. The Darnell frame used according to Mick, is actually pretty sharp.

But I do agree with Tom that anyone looking at those images above is more than likely going to "see" what appears to be a female. We know better because we know these are poorer quality images than those used by Barto and others. I would go so far as to say, much poorer.

I also agree with Tom that we could be helped by honest questions and rational dissent  It is not that we bar either of those. The problem, Tom is that what we get in opposition, is lunacy, trolling, or agenda-driven bullshit. 

In fact, I cannot think of any opposition to this that does not fit one of those categories.  That is not being overly dramatic or exaggerating.  

Your questions I am certain were honest, but do make better sense as ones made from the Devil's Advocate viewpoint. It is a preview of what we are going to see more and more of on other forums. 

Even as I type, I am sure Mr Doyle will be posting that we now adnit it is a female.

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-----------------------------
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Thu 22 Sep 2022, 1:53 am
Mr Doyle will explain that the missing buttons from the image will "naturally follow"...just like the missing tits.

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Thu 22 Sep 2022, 8:24 am
Button Bazooms!
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Fri 23 Sep 2022, 11:41 am
greg_parker wrote:You beat me to it, Ed. It is the quality of the images that makes the difference. The Darnell frame used according to Mick, is actually pretty sharp.

But I do agree with Tom that anyone looking at those images above is more than likely going to "see" what appears to be a female. We know better because we know these are poorer quality images than those used by Barto and others. I would go so far as to say, much poorer.

I also agree with Tom that we could be helped by honest questions and rational dissent  It is not that we bar either of those. The problem, Tom is that what we get in opposition, is lunacy, trolling, or agenda-driven bullshit. 

In fact, I cannot think of any opposition to this that does not fit one of those categories.  That is not being overly dramatic or exaggerating.  

Your questions I am certain were honest, but do make better sense as ones made from the Devil's Advocate viewpoint. It is a preview of what we are going to see more and more of on other forums. 

Even as I type, I am sure Mr Doyle will be posting that we now adnit it is a female.

Thank you Greg. I guess since these are “new” images posted by Barto I thought they were of equal or greater quality than the “classic” PM frame that shows the receding hairline - and I honestly can’t tell much of a difference just by looking at them on my computer, which could be my cracked screen’s fault. 

My suggestion would be to a create high-res comparison of the two frames/versions and address the scoop neck issue directly. As you know, the scoop was allegedly corroborated by some guy who viewed the 6FM digital scan of Darnell, so it might be a tough sell to say the scoop is an artifact but the receding hairline is legit without some way to quantify and/or demonstrate a difference in scan quality. Basically my point is I’m not the only one who won’t be able to tell, especially those viewing on mobile or with literally broken computer screens like me. 

I have no agenda, support PM, and loudly advocate for better scans and attempt to debunk bullshit whenever the topic comes up, so you can understand my advance frustration with some of the criticism I knew I’d get for asking a reasonable question - and thanks for providing an explanation. It is literally my job to scrutinize shit as much as humanly possible and find flaws in arguments, so if I’m skeptical about something I won’t hesitate to ask - but there’s never any ulterior motive or any crap like that. I just want to know. Thanks again for explaining.
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Fri 23 Sep 2022, 1:38 pm
Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Image_14
I know I've posted this image before but for the love of humanity will people stop with the Prayer woman shite. I know this is a suboptimal image to definitively make a positive ID - but the MAN on the far left corner atop of the steps is no woman at least to my eye.....and he looks remarkably like Lee Oswald.

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Fri 23 Sep 2022, 1:53 pm
And just to be clear, in my opinion nobody - not here or elsewhere - could determine what gender the figure is when viewing the heavily pixelated cropped versions of an unknown generational copy of the online the Darnell frame. No one, zip, nada, naught, zero.

The online version of the Darnell frame when viewed uncropped appears to show a white male with a receding hairline - period! For those who have had the opportunity to view that uncropped image on high resolution professional monitors it becomes obvious that the unidentified figure is a male.

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Darnell - Prayer Man - Page 35 Empty Re: Prayer Man

Sun 25 Sep 2022, 12:14 pm
JFK_FNG wrote:
greg_parker wrote:You beat me to it, Ed. It is the quality of the images that makes the difference. The Darnell frame used according to Mick, is actually pretty sharp.

But I do agree with Tom that anyone looking at those images above is more than likely going to "see" what appears to be a female. We know better because we know these are poorer quality images than those used by Barto and others. I would go so far as to say, much poorer.

I also agree with Tom that we could be helped by honest questions and rational dissent  It is not that we bar either of those. The problem, Tom is that what we get in opposition, is lunacy, trolling, or agenda-driven bullshit. 

In fact, I cannot think of any opposition to this that does not fit one of those categories.  That is not being overly dramatic or exaggerating.  

Your questions I am certain were honest, but do make better sense as ones made from the Devil's Advocate viewpoint. It is a preview of what we are going to see more and more of on other forums. 

Even as I type, I am sure Mr Doyle will be posting that we now adnit it is a female.

Thank you Greg. I guess since these are “new” images posted by Barto I thought they were of equal or greater quality than the “classic” PM frame that shows the receding hairline - and I honestly can’t tell much of a difference just by looking at them on my computer, which could be my cracked screen’s fault. 

My suggestion would be to a create high-res comparison of the two frames/versions and address the scoop neck issue directly. As you know, the scoop was allegedly corroborated by some guy who viewed the 6FM digital scan of Darnell, so it might be a tough sell to say the scoop is an artifact but the receding hairline is legit without some way to quantify and/or demonstrate a difference in scan quality. Basically my point is I’m not the only one who won’t be able to tell, especially those viewing on mobile or with literally broken computer screens like me. 

I have no agenda, support PM, and loudly advocate for better scans and attempt to debunk bullshit whenever the topic comes up, so you can understand my advance frustration with some of the criticism I knew I’d get for asking a reasonable question - and thanks for providing an explanation. It is literally my job to scrutinize shit as much as humanly possible and find flaws in arguments, so if I’m skeptical about something I won’t hesitate to ask - but there’s never any ulterior motive or any crap like that. I just want to know. Thanks again for explaining.
Tom, some of us have been at this a long time. It has been akin to a war. Resistance to accepting Oswald as PM is one thing, and is to be expected and even welcomed if intentions are honorable. But resistance in the form of insisting it is a female, and in particular, insisting it is a 300 pound female, is clearly not honorable. It is acting as agents of chaos. 

As a result of years of this, some of us can and do get a bit crotchety at times. I don't think anyone here really thinks your intentions were  not good. Maybe a bit perplexing though to some who are familiar with all of the images. 

Quick story. I tried to get Sean Murphy to post here more than he did. He only ever made a very small number of posts here. But he told me why. He wanted to go into "enemy" terrtory and give them every opportunity to poke holes in his theory.  I believe he did this at least partly because unknown to the rest of us, he always planned on calling it quits at the 50th. He wanted to fast-track it all, find holes and fix them or abandon the thery if the holes destroyed it,and all of this within that timeframe. 

I also know he put great expections in who Groden's mystery witness was and what she might have told Groden. I think he believed that witness would seal it. Can you imagine how Sean must have felt when the mystery witness turned out to be completely made up? I think that did seal a deal. Just not the right one. I think that episode destroyed any chance of Sean returning to this. 

The levels of grift, dishonesty and protection of fragile egos (by any and all means) in this alleged community are the biggest barriers we face. People like Von Pein aren't even close to being as big a hindrance to progress. 

Never was it truer to say "I have seen the enemy, and the enemy is us", so it is a fine line we walk to avoid a total fortress mentality here.


Last edited by greg_parker on Mon 26 Sep 2022, 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Sun 25 Sep 2022, 3:56 pm
Awesome stuff Greg. Inspirational, in your way.

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Mon 26 Sep 2022, 8:04 pm
Well put, Greg.

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Wed 28 Sep 2022, 11:13 pm
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Thu 29 Sep 2022, 10:32 pm
If that is NOT pasted on then I'd say that is the clearest photo of Oswald being Prayer Man Mick.

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Thu 29 Sep 2022, 11:28 pm
barto wrote:If that is NOT pasted on then I'd say that is the clearest photo of Oswald being Prayer Man Mick.
That is the Darnell frame cropped and sharpened. Nothing more.

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Fri 07 Oct 2022, 7:22 am
Enlargement and crop of the Mick Purdy version. I will have a look in PS myself. If I get some sort of better result then I shall post.
Look at it again and again. Then look at it again!
And again etc


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Fri 07 Oct 2022, 8:19 am
Wowza!
That has promise.

I note the left and right sides of face are slightly off due to a split in the image. Its likely a video artifact.
The vertical edges or split, lines up with the door frame directly behind PM/Lee.

I raised the right side.

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Fri 07 Oct 2022, 9:12 am
Nice work Ed
The black streak is not a frame for glasses either.

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