The Lunchroom encounter

Been reading a fantastic thread over on EF regarding Oswald and the lunchroom encounter. Very persuasive, extremely convincing, amazingly powerful argument for the lunchroom encounter between Baker, Truly and Oswald NOT to have transpired. One of the best threads I've ever had the good fortune to read. The amount of info, and evidence which this thread has exposed and bought to light is fantastic, and staggering all at the same time. Unless someone on this forum can show otherwise, I truly (pun intended) believe the lunchroom encounter did NOT take place. Which in turn lends weight and hefty weight too I might add to the possibility that Oswald may indeed be prayerman. If you add in to this fact the empty coke bottle left on the left hand side of the front stairs of the TSBD in the William Allen photo, snapped at or around 12.40pm its beginning to look a lot like the rabbit was out front after all.

Mickp wrote:Been reading a fantastic thread over on EF regarding Oswald and the lunchroom encounter. Very persuasive, extremely convincing, amazingly powerful argument for the lunchroom encounter between Baker, Truly and Oswald NOT to have transpired. One of the best threads I've ever had the good fortune to read. The amount of info, and evidence which this thread has exposed and bought to light is fantastic, and staggering all at the same time. Unless someone on this forum can show otherwise, I truly (pun intended) believe the lunchroom encounter did NOT take place. Which in turn lends weight and hefty weight too I might add to the possibility that Oswald may indeed be prayerman. If you add in to this fact the empty coke bottle left on the left hand side of the front stairs of the TSBD in the William Allen photo, snapped at or around 12.40pm its beginning to look a lot like the rabbit was out front after all.

If you're talking about the Prayer Man thread, you probably won't get much argument here. Amazing stuff.

FWIW, there is a thread going here and on other forums about Prayer Man which add a bit more to it, and there are also threads going back several years here about the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter being a lie.

Thanks Greg, sorry I'm a bit behind all this but I just find it absolutely fascinating and fantastic that after all this time the evidence which has been unearthed and cross referenced is clearly starting to show and weigh very heavily in favour of Oswald not only being prayer man and that indeed he did have a coke in his hands and did leave said coke bottle on the front steps but he also could not have had the encounter in the lunchroom as stated in evidence by Truly and Baker. Once again my apologies for not being up to speed. work gets in the way sometimes

Mickp wrote:Thanks Greg, sorry I'm a bit behind all this but I just find it absolutely fascinating and fantastic that after all this time the evidence which has been unearthed and cross referenced is clearly starting to show and weigh very heavily in favour of Oswald not only being prayer man and that indeed he did have a coke in his hands and did leave said coke bottle on the front steps but he also could not have had the encounter in the lunchroom as stated in evidence by Truly and Baker. Once again my apologies for not being up to speed. work gets in the way sometimes

No apology necessary, Mick.

The PM thread at the Ed Forum has cut through like nothing else has. We're all a bit flummoxed here as to why it hasn't been pinned to the front page to keep it from slipping into obscurity.

Hi Greg, yeah why hasn't it been pinned to front page, I did read on one of the very last posts that was the intention. Not sure whether it has or hasn't. The stuff there should not be lost to obscurity.

Mickp wrote:Thanks Greg, sorry I'm a bit behind all this but I just find it absolutely fascinating and fantastic that after all this time the evidence which has been unearthed and cross referenced is clearly starting to show and weigh very heavily in favour of Oswald not only being prayer man and that indeed he did have a coke in his hands and did leave said coke bottle on the front steps but he also could not have had the encounter in the lunchroom as stated in evidence by Truly and Baker. Once again my apologies for not being up to speed. work gets in the way sometimes

Here's a link to the thread on this forum about 'PrayerMan'.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum

Frankie Vegas wrote:

Mickp wrote:Thanks Greg, sorry I'm a bit behind all this but I just find it absolutely fascinating and fantastic that after all this time the evidence which has been unearthed and cross referenced is clearly starting to show and weigh very heavily in favour of Oswald not only being prayer man and that indeed he did have a coke in his hands and did leave said coke bottle on the front steps but he also could not have had the encounter in the lunchroom as stated in evidence by Truly and Baker. Once again my apologies for not being up to speed. work gets in the way sometimes

Here's a link to the thread on this forum about 'PrayerMan'.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum

another relevant link
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t42-oswald-s-two-cop-encounters

I concur that Sean Murphy's work on LHO being Prayer Man is very compelling.

Although this post is not about Prayer Man, there is a passage in Roy Truly's WC testimony which IMO, is interesting.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0125a.htm

WC Hearings, Volume III, page 241.
Towards the end of his testimony, Truly is questioned by the Commissioners as to how Oswald slipped out of the TSBD? Here is the relevant portion:
******
Mr. Mccloy. When you entered the building with the officer behind you, when you were presumably trying to get to the roof, there had been no cordon at that time thrown around the building?
Mr. Truly. No, sir.
Mr. Mccloy. So that Oswald could have slipped out without an officer having been at the doorway at that point?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; I think so. There were many officers running down west of the building. It appears many people thought the shots came from there because of the echo or what.
Mr. Dulles. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.
******
So, we have Truly saying (describing Oswald's actions), which I have highlighted:
"From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor."

Wait, wasn't Oswald supposed to have run down four flights of stairs (which were located at the back of the TSBD), and ducked into the second floor lunchroom just before Marrion Baker spotted him? So, how did an office and the front stairway enter the picture?

Perhaps I am reading this wrong or did Roy Truly accidentally veer off the script here?

WM63 wrote:I concur that Sean Murphy's work on LHO being Prayer Man is very compelling.

Although this post is not about Prayer Man, there is a passage in Roy Truly's WC testimony which IMO, is interesting.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0125a.htm

WC Hearings, Volume III, page 241.
Towards the end of his testimony, Truly is questioned by the Commissioners as to how Oswald slipped out of the TSBD? Here is the relevant portion:
******
Mr. Mccloy. When you entered the building with the officer behind you, when you were presumably trying to get to the roof, there had been no cordon at that time thrown around the building?
Mr. Truly. No, sir.
Mr. Mccloy. So that Oswald could have slipped out without an officer having been at the doorway at that point?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; I think so. There were many officers running down west of the building. It appears many people thought the shots came from there because of the echo or what.
Mr. Dulles. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.
******
So, we have Truly saying (describing Oswald's actions), which I have highlighted:
"From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor."

Wait, wasn't Oswald supposed to have run down four flights of stairs (which were located at the back of the TSBD), and ducked into the second floor lunchroom just before Marrion Baker spotted him? So, how did an office and the front stairway enter the picture?

Perhaps I am reading this wrong or did Roy Truly accidentally veer off the script here?

Devil's Advocate. Since he was being asked to speculate about Oswald's departure, it may be an attempt to discuss Lee's movements after the putative exchange with Mrs Reid. "Second floor landing"?

greg parker wrote:

WM63 wrote:I concur that Sean Murphy's work on LHO being Prayer Man is very compelling.

Although this post is not about Prayer Man, there is a passage in Roy Truly's WC testimony which IMO, is interesting.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0125a.htm

WC Hearings, Volume III, page 241.
Towards the end of his testimony, Truly is questioned by the Commissioners as to how Oswald slipped out of the TSBD? Here is the relevant portion:
******
Mr. Mccloy. When you entered the building with the officer behind you, when you were presumably trying to get to the roof, there had been no cordon at that time thrown around the building?
Mr. Truly. No, sir.
Mr. Mccloy. So that Oswald could have slipped out without an officer having been at the doorway at that point?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; I think so. There were many officers running down west of the building. It appears many people thought the shots came from there because of the echo or what.
Mr. Dulles. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.
******
So, we have Truly saying (describing Oswald's actions), which I have highlighted:
"From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor."

Wait, wasn't Oswald supposed to have run down four flights of stairs (which were located at the back of the TSBD), and ducked into the second floor lunchroom just before Marrion Baker spotted him? So, how did an office and the front stairway enter the picture?

Perhaps I am reading this wrong or did Roy Truly accidentally veer off the script here?

Devil's Advocate. Since he was being asked to speculate about Oswald's departure, it may be an attempt to discuss Lee's movements after the putative exchange with Mrs Reid. "Second floor landing"?

Hi Greg,


Thanks for your response. Your point is a valid one, and I concur that Truly was indeed trying to do that in response to Dulles' question.
 
Except, the first part of his answer also included how Oswald could have possibly gotten to lunchroom in the first place: "he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor".

Truly probably got a bit over anxious on the sell...happens.

WM63 wrote:

greg parker wrote:

WM63 wrote:I concur that Sean Murphy's work on LHO being Prayer Man is very compelling.

Although this post is not about Prayer Man, there is a passage in Roy Truly's WC testimony which IMO, is interesting.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0125a.htm

WC Hearings, Volume III, page 241.
Towards the end of his testimony, Truly is questioned by the Commissioners as to how Oswald slipped out of the TSBD? Here is the relevant portion:
******
Mr. Mccloy. When you entered the building with the officer behind you, when you were presumably trying to get to the roof, there had been no cordon at that time thrown around the building?
Mr. Truly. No, sir.
Mr. Mccloy. So that Oswald could have slipped out without an officer having been at the doorway at that point?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; I think so. There were many officers running down west of the building. It appears many people thought the shots came from there because of the echo or what.
Mr. Dulles. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.
******
So, we have Truly saying (describing Oswald's actions), which I have highlighted:
"From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor."

Wait, wasn't Oswald supposed to have run down four flights of stairs (which were located at the back of the TSBD), and ducked into the second floor lunchroom just before Marrion Baker spotted him? So, how did an office and the front stairway enter the picture?

Perhaps I am reading this wrong or did Roy Truly accidentally veer off the script here?

Devil's Advocate. Since he was being asked to speculate about Oswald's departure, it may be an attempt to discuss Lee's movements after the putative exchange with Mrs Reid. "Second floor landing"?

Hi Greg,


Thanks for your response. Your point is a valid one, and I concur that Truly was indeed trying to do that in response to Dulles' question.
 
Except, the first part of his answer also included how Oswald could have possibly gotten to lunchroom in the first place: "he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor".

Truly probably got a bit over anxious on the sell...happens.

Wish we had tapes instead of transcripts... the more I read it, the more it does sound like he's talking about a round trip up to 2nd floor then back down? That would be consonant with certain interpretations of various interrogation notes and reports... and it may well be a slip up on Truly's part easy to make under the circumstances.

I don't have a scintilla of doubt that Truly was an "inside" man on this.

greg parker wrote:

WM63 wrote:

greg parker wrote:

WM63 wrote:I concur that Sean Murphy's work on LHO being Prayer Man is very compelling.

Although this post is not about Prayer Man, there is a passage in Roy Truly's WC testimony which IMO, is interesting.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh3/html/WC_Vol3_0125a.htm

WC Hearings, Volume III, page 241.
Towards the end of his testimony, Truly is questioned by the Commissioners as to how Oswald slipped out of the TSBD? Here is the relevant portion:
******
Mr. Mccloy. When you entered the building with the officer behind you, when you were presumably trying to get to the roof, there had been no cordon at that time thrown around the building?
Mr. Truly. No, sir.
Mr. Mccloy. So that Oswald could have slipped out without an officer having been at the doorway at that point?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; I think so. There were many officers running down west of the building. It appears many people thought the shots came from there because of the echo or what.
Mr. Dulles. Is it your view he went out the front door rather than one of the back doors?
Mr. Truly. Yes, sir; it is. From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor--it is my view that he walked down the front stairs and just out through the crowd there, probably a minute or two before the police had everything stopped.
******
So, we have Truly saying (describing Oswald's actions), which I have highlighted:
"From the nature. from the direction he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor."

Wait, wasn't Oswald supposed to have run down four flights of stairs (which were located at the back of the TSBD), and ducked into the second floor lunchroom just before Marrion Baker spotted him? So, how did an office and the front stairway enter the picture?

Perhaps I am reading this wrong or did Roy Truly accidentally veer off the script here?

Devil's Advocate. Since he was being asked to speculate about Oswald's departure, it may be an attempt to discuss Lee's movements after the putative exchange with Mrs Reid. "Second floor landing"?

Hi Greg,


Thanks for your response. Your point is a valid one, and I concur that Truly was indeed trying to do that in response to Dulles' question.
 
Except, the first part of his answer also included how Oswald could have possibly gotten to lunchroom in the first place: "he was walking through the office, and the front stairway, to reach the second floor".

Truly probably got a bit over anxious on the sell...happens.

Wish we had tapes instead of transcripts... the more I read it, the more it does sound like he's talking about a round trip up to 2nd floor then back down? That would be consonant with certain interpretations of various interrogation notes and reports... and it may well be a slip up on Truly's part easy to make under the circumstances.

I don't have a scintilla of doubt that Truly was an "inside" man on this.

Yes, a round trip, except the first part of the trip was a slip up. Also, immediately after Truly's last response, the Commissioners change the topic, I should have included that in my first post on this topic.

This is not the only place in his testimony that Truly slips up, IMO, there are a couple other oddities. Maybe, I will put together a post of those.

Concur with your "inside" man comment, I presume that you also know about Lee turning into "Leslie" on payroll records for the week of Nov 16th.

Concur with your "inside" man comment, I presume that you also know about Lee turning into "Leslie" on payroll records for the week of Nov 16th.

Well, there are certainly some interesting theories that do the rounds about that name - and like most theories in this case, they range from the sublime to the ridiculous. 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=48773&relPageId=28

https://www.facebook.com/meandleebook/photos/pb.127391537401875.-2207520000.1391481878./196096993864662/?type=3&permPage=1

greg parker wrote:

Concur with your "inside" man comment, I presume that you also know about Lee turning into "Leslie" on payroll records for the week of Nov 16th.

Well, there are certainly some interesting theories that do the rounds about that name - and like most theories in this case, they range from the sublime to the ridiculous. 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=48773&relPageId=28

https://www.facebook.com/meandleebook/photos/pb.127391537401875.-2207520000.1391481878./196096993864662/?type=3&permPage=1

Thanks for the links, will read through William Weston's work.

It appears that several things once taken as true are being refuted with new evidence.

The lunchroom encounter

The cab ride

Visit to Mexico City.