The Mrs Jack D Tippit Phone call

psellers wrote:Very interesting post Greg. From what I've seen at EF, you seem to be implying the Oswalds weren't exactly a Brady Bunch set up. I am going to read up on John Pic. Could you suggest a good starting point?

greg parker wrote:

psellers wrote:Very interesting post Greg. From what I've seen at EF, you seem to be implying the Oswalds weren't exactly a Brady Bunch set up. I am going to read up on John Pic. Could you suggest a good starting point?

I'm not aware of too much on Pic in any of the literature. Maybe a bit in "Legend". Apart from that, there is the stuff in the Armstrong book about the zoo photo (which it'll be no surprise to learn, I think is a non-issue).

The only (and best) way to learn anything about him is to study his testimony and any documents you can find relating to him. What I did after that was look into the history of his various postings and what was happening at those bases during his various tenures.

I also notice things regarding timing e.g that Oswald's truancy commenced as soon as he turned 13 and ended at the same time that Pic left the Port Security Unit. Coincidence maybe, but the age meets the minimum age being studied to help identify future potential defectors, and Pic's work in the PSU puts him in position to possibly be a spotter for not only such a study, but also for teenage informants. Lee's failure for instance, to salute the flag was a good way of flushing out teachers and students who supported such an action. Bottom line is that the flag saluting ritual was not taken lightly at the height of the Cold War. Entire families came under scrutiny regarding loyalty in similar cases, with some of those ending in court. Yet in Oswald's case, "loyalty" didn't even get mentioned...

psellers wrote:
I managed to read most of his WC testimony. He was posted all over the place and he was in Japan around about the same time his brother was. I also read your threads/post regarding John Pic's notebook and all the conjecture is doing my head in. When I retire I am going to play golf and study this JFK puzzle. In that order.

greg parker wrote:

psellers wrote:
I managed to read most of his WC testimony. He was posted all over the place and he was in Japan around about the same time his brother was. I also read your threads/post regarding John Pic's notebook and all the conjecture is doing my head in. When I retire I am going to play golf and study this JFK puzzle. In that order.

Lee seems to have left Japan just prior to John arriving, but his testimony could be clearer.

There is one document I read recently where he tries very hard too point the finger at his cousin, Marilyn Murret. He tried to raise the issue again in testimony, but got nowhere... I'll have to try and find that document again as he explicitly states that Marilyn and Lee hooked up in Europe.

Golf does my head in. How long before you retire?

greg parker wrote:thanks Paul...

I understand what you're saying about common ground, but there are ways around it e.g Jefferson Morley's refusal to theorise and allowing the records to speak for themselves. Using that principle, a very convincing argument can be put together as to why the case should be reopened.

The community IS divided on the nuts and bolts. There are just too many people pushing too many barrows, which in turn lends some validity to the terms "conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorists" being used in the pejorative sense.

I have actually been thinking about these things, and one idea I might try is starting threads on specific parts of the case and inviting all those who I have some faith in (which may include those with whom I disagree) to contribute all they can on that topic, along with the supporting evidence and ask that no discussion or debating take place on what is posted.

I would then hope to get at leat two other knowledgable parties to review all the information - edit it down to what they believe is the most compelling, and further distil that into a narrative.

Even getting that amount of co operation won't be easy, but nothing ventured...

Anyhow, hang in there. I have a feeling those golfing neurons can be easily redirected to even more excrutiating pursuits!

greg parker wrote:thanks Paul...

I understand what you're saying about common ground, but there are ways around it e.g Jefferson Morley's refusal to theorise and allowing the records to speak for themselves. Using that principle, a very convincing argument can be put together as to why the case should be reopened.

The community IS divided on the nuts and bolts. There are just too many people pushing too many barrows, which in turn lends some validity to the terms "conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorists" being used in the pejorative sense.

I have actually been thinking about these things, and one idea I might try is starting threads on specific parts of the case and inviting all those who I have some faith in (which may include those with whom I disagree) to contribute all they can on that topic, along with the supporting evidence and ask that no discussion or debating take place on what is posted.

I would then hope to get at leat two other knowledgable parties to review all the information - edit it down to what they believe is the most compelling, and further distil that into a narrative.

Even getting that amount of co operation won't be easy, but nothing ventured...

Anyhow, hang in there. I have a feeling those golfing neurons can be easily redirected to even more excrutiating pursuits!

Frankie Vegas wrote:

greg parker wrote:thanks Paul...

I understand what you're saying about common ground, but there are ways around it e.g Jefferson Morley's refusal to theorise and allowing the records to speak for themselves. Using that principle, a very convincing argument can be put together as to why the case should be reopened.

The community IS divided on the nuts and bolts. There are just too many people pushing too many barrows, which in turn lends some validity to the terms "conspiracy theory" and "conspiracy theorists" being used in the pejorative sense.

I have actually been thinking about these things, and one idea I might try is starting threads on specific parts of the case and inviting all those who I have some faith in (which may include those with whom I disagree) to contribute all they can on that topic, along with the supporting evidence and ask that no discussion or debating take place on what is posted.

I would then hope to get at leat two other knowledgable parties to review all the information - edit it down to what they believe is the most compelling, and further distil that into a narrative.

Even getting that amount of co operation won't be easy, but nothing ventured...

Anyhow, hang in there. I have a feeling those golfing neurons can be easily redirected to even more excrutiating pursuits!

I think this is a brilliant idea. I hope something can come of it. Let me know if I can help.

greg parker wrote:Hasan,

I'm getting dizzy following Farkas around the country. There is plenty to keep interest, but too soon to determine if it means anything. Will be back if something jumps out.

greg parker wrote:As with the Oxnard call, pinpointing the name of the caller would be virtually impossible.

However certain things can be established and taken as fact, while there are other things we can take an educated guess at.

Firstly, here are the FBI reports:

interview with Mrs Jack Tippit
interview with Mr Jack Tippit

The mystery woman mentioned two names, "Weinstock" and "Emile Kardos", said to be Oswald's father and uncle who were Hungarian Communists. She also kept mentioning, without clarification, the term, "brother-in-law".


Who was "Weinstock"?
According to the reports, the caller stated Weinstock was editor of "Woman's World". Others have already suggested this may be Louis Weinstock, and I believe that can be taken as correct. Louis Weinstock was a Hungarian born board member of the CPUSA; had been one of those jailed for violation of the Smith Act, and for a while was General Manager of the "The Worker". In 1962, he had replied to a letter sent by Lee Harvey Oswald. The reference to "Woman's World" is probably a resullt of two distinct memory lapses (or one memory lapse and one mishearing). I think the caller named the publication as "Worker's World" which was the organ of the "Workers World Party" established in 1959 as a breakaway from the SWP. As I cannot link Weinstock to that publication, it seems likely she meant "The Daily Worker" which became known as "The Worker" in 1958. Mention of "The Daily Worker" was then misremembered or misheard as "Woman's World".  

This would tend to date her knowledge of "Weinstock" and "Kardos" to pre-1958.

Who was "Emile Kardos"?
As far as I can tell, no one has looked too hard at finding out - or even guessing who this is. His real name is Emil Gardos.



From Forgotten Radicals: Communists in the Pennsylvania Anthracite, 1919-1950 by Walter T Howard, p68 "In mid-October, anthracite organiser Emil Gardos submitted a report to The Daily Worker explaining how powerful anti-Communist forces stifled the Party and the NMU..."

For anyone who wants to look, there are a few other references to him to be found on the web.

The caller was thought to be German or Austrian - but in any case, a number of European nationals have difficulty with "G"s, giving them a hard sound akin to a "K" - thus it's no surprise that "Gardos" would be recalled as "Kardos".

Who was the "Brother in Law"?
Here's where it gets tricky and a bunch of conjecture is needed, so I'll start with the bottom line
and name possibilities.

Assuming that the phone call has any validity at all, I believe this may have been a reference to one of John Pic's brothers-in-law,  either George Clifford Parish or John Ebel.

George Clifford Parish
Parish was married to Emma Henrietta Parish (nee Fuhrman). He was a career navy man who had known John Pic for about 11 years and contacted the FBI in early December, 1963 to give them the following information:

His wife had told him that Lee and Marguerite had visited John and Marge Pic in the mid 1950s in New York and that while John was out at sea, Lee had threatened Marge Pic with a knife, and that when John Pic returned home, he had run Lee and his mother out of the apartment as a result. He said his wife also told him that Lee and the Pics fell out over the incident.

Emma Henrietta Parish
Emma was interviewed the day after her husband. She confrrmed the knife story with one very major difference: Emma stated Marge had contacted her other sister, Doris Ebel about the incident and that Doris "berated" Oswald, and it was Doris who removed them from the apartment.

The information provided by Mr and Mrs Parish seems to be the first accounting of the alleged knife incident. John Pic would later claim he was the one who kicked his mother and brother out, but one has to wonder how Emma could have been mistaken given she was the one in direct contact with other family members. She named her three brothers as Edward Fuhrman, Arthur Fuhrman and Paul Fuhrman. Those brothers would also be considered Pic's brother's in law.

There is actually a third candidate for having kicked Lee and Marguerite out. Marge Pic was interviewed by the Secret Service on Movember 25, 1963 and - without any mention whatsoever of the knife story, she laid claim to having having asked them to leave herself on the basis that "life was very difficult" with them there.  

Three different candidates for issuing the impromptu eviction with the "knife" story not mentioned until December 5.

On a side note: Marge Pic was interviewed by the Secret Service away from the presence of her husband without any noted or apparent difficulty. When the FBI wanted to interview her later, Pic insisted he be present on the basis that she was a very nervous person who might not give any information without his being there.

John Ebel
Little is known about Ebel except that he was the personal chauffeur of Howard Deering Johnson of the restaurant and motel chain fame.

The Fuhrman parents had been Hungarian refugees. Pic's Warren Commission testimony concerning his wife and her family is vague beyond belief e.g. he could not remember his wife's birth date, nor how long her parents had been living in the US.

Fascists and Nazis Today by Dennis Eisenberg was published in France in 1963 (pre-assassination).  Warren Commission document 1096 contains this very interesting passage from the book:



MKULTRA
Subproject 65 and 82 dealt with Hungarian refugees. Subproject 89 dealt with Hungarian repatriation. According to Ted Gittinger, these projects were all concerned  with learning about the  "personality characteristics of the Communsists and so forth". Indeed.

As has been discussed in other threads, Marge Pic appears to have demonstrated automatic writing in her husband's notebook during the '62 Thanksgiving get-together. That get-together also produced a written conversation between the lab technician, John Pic, and the trained pharmacist, Marina Oswald concerning drugs which happened to have later been used in MKSEARCH which took over from MKULTRA in 1964.

Personally, I tend toward thinking the caller to the Tippits was just a whack job - but if  there is anything at all to her (incoherent) story (and I would not have taken the trouble to put this together if I thought there no chance of that), this post sets out where the research should be done.

If you check out the Hughes film this comes from, you, like me, may conclude the chap looks Eastern European: Sean Murphy suspect

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9550&p=250243
Guest_Tom Scully_*  Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:19 PM

   

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t87-the-mrs-jack-d-tippit-phone-call
.................
    John Ebel
    Little is known about Ebel except that he was the personal chauffeur of Howard Deering Johnson of the restaurant and motel chain fame.

    The Fuhrman parents had been Hungarian refugees. Pic's Warren Commission testimony concerning his wife and her family is vague beyond belief e.g. he could not remember his wife's birth date, nor how long her parents had been living in the US......

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,6486.msg345531.html#msg345531

February 22, 1963, The Oswald's are introduced to Ruth Paine at a party at the home of Everett Dow Glover.

August 26, 1963, Everett Glover, age 47, marries a Hungarian refugee half his age and just seven years older than his son, Michael Lloyd Glover.
Glover's new bride is the daughter of Janos "John" Hejjas, a recent resident of Dallas with a debt problem associated with a member of the Dallas Hungarian refugee community.....:

See background: (Same link as displayed at top of next quote box, below)

Glover is asked by the WC about his recent marriage, but his new wife's last name is not included in any WC document that I have been able to locate. .......

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,6019.msg345438.html#msg345438
..............
......................
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=96444&relPageId=7
ALLEGATION THAT STEVE GREGORY KENNEDY WAS IN CONTACT WITH LEE HARVEY 0 pg 7
Found in: Oswald 201 File, Vol 45
for a single man of his age KENNEDY stated several people are quite bitter toward him because of his lending them money,,in particular one JANOS HEJJAS, 5615 ,Miller to whom he has loaned approximately
RIF#: 1993.06.15.18:13:11:430000   (7/2/1964)   CIA#: 201-289248

http://jfk.education/images/record-image(4).jpg


.