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The Bolton Ford Incident

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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty The Bolton Ford Incident

Wed 05 Apr 2017, 10:22 am
First topic message reminder :

Jim Hargrove wrote:The Bolton Ford Incident
 
On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.
Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.42
When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." 61-04
 
The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 61-04
Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."
Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.61-05
 
[img(79.77778px,23.77778px)]http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif[/img]
 
 
The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.43 After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.
 
NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in
Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961
and 1962 New Orleans City directories.
 
--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong
 
Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.
 
The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Friends
 
W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.
Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.
On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”
There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.
Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.
 
[img(874.7777799999999px,1426.77778px)]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/5qjm39cmqhnzf15/Deslatte1.png?dl=0[/img]
This is a perfect example of the how dishonest these people are.

Deslatte specifically stated that regarding the Oswald character, no first name was given. That information was obtained only days after the assassination.

So what does Armstrong do? He relies on the Garrison interview of Deslatte's boss Fred Sewell. Sewell claimed Deslattewas given the name "Lee Oswald" and that this was the name written on the paperwork. Problem is, the paperwork confirms Deslatte's memory, The name listed is simply "Oswald".

In 1963 Deslatte was unable to describe Oswald. Years later, Sewell had no such problem. Insread, he gave Armstrong a problem. His description was  5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. Armstrong however, claims this was the historical :Lee Harvey Oswald - who - according to Armstrong was a strapping lad of 5' 11" with athletic build, How does Armstrong address this issue? As far as I can tell, he doesn't. He just ignores it and hopes no one else notices. Larsen noticed, but so far Hargrove has not responded, and Larsen seems in no hurry to repeat the statement. 

The evidence indicates that "Oswald" was the only name given. There were no shortage of Oswald's in Louisiana.  Alternatively, the whole story could have been cooked up for publicity, with Oswald's name added post-assassination. Sewell's description could be based on a best guess from seeing Oswald on TV, with them not realizing that Oswald was out of the country at the time Moore was asking about the trucks. That makes the most sense simply because the people involved in The Friends of Democratic Cuba could pay for the trucks themselves. If they wanted to disguise that the money was CIA, then the CIA using a double for someone they had sent overseas makes no sense. And I have certainly heard no sensible argument for this event in any case - only vague statements about Doppelganger CIA ops and creating legends and confusion. 

Has anyone ever tried to find out for example, if there was anyone named Oswald involved with Friends of Democratic Cuba? Has anyone looked into whether Bolton Ford manager Sewell pulled any publicity stunts before or after this event? Or what the reputation of the business was?

The research on this makes "half-arsed" look brilliant.

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Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:08 am
Will Hart wrote:Thanks for having me Greg. Here is one of the most interesting items I found. It’s in the “New Dalzell” file from the JG investigation and hosted on NARA.

It begins on page 4 of 38. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7564790?q=*:*
Thanks Will.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
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Wed 11 Sep 2019, 8:14 pm
Welcome to ROKC,Will.

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Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:53 pm
Here are some more interesting links to documents and sources that I found while studying the Bolton Ford incident. Two things have really stood out to me. One, Dalzell has claimed to be a Navy cryptographer. Having served in WWII. The Navy denies he ever served in a memo to Hoover in 1961. The same can be said for Charlie Waters. He claims to have served in Marine intelligence, they also deny he ever served. The second, Guy Bannister was not involved in this group until Dalzell contacted him on advice from Grady Durham. The FDC is not a Bannister group!

Below are the links and a brief description. I have plenty more if anyone is interested.

More on FDC, Dalzell, and Waters.

Beginning in June of 1956, the State Department and FBI investigates William Dalzell for violation of the registration act. Dalzell is working for Sinclair oil in Ethiopia. He loses his job for unknown reasons and begins to work with the Ethiopian Intelligence services informing them about Sinclair Oil. This investigation never amounts to anything and Dalzell settles back in the states in New Orleans and begins anti Castro work. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76287#relPageId=3&tab=page


1/20/1961 Bolton Ford bud sheet for FDC
http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif

3/30/1961 CIA to FBI. A report on FDC members and background info. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=32324&search=104-10069-10034#relPageId=2&tab=page

4/7/1961 Sergio Arcacha-Smith tells FBI that Dalzell contacts him and offers $200K for gambling concessions. Dalzell claims he represents Carlos Marcelo.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=132863&search=william_dalzell#relPageId=52&tab=page

8/10/1961 FBI agent Hosty interviews Charlie Waters in Dallas about anti Castro and anti communist activities.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76766#relPageId=15&tab=page

******9/14/1961 Navy DENIES Dalzell or Waters have ever served!!!!!

Both men claim to have been in the service. Waters in military intelligence (Marines) and Dalzell a cryptographer (Navy.) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76766#relPageId=13&tab=page *****

11/25/1963 William Watson VP at Bolton, calls FBI to report the “Bolton Ford” incident.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bolton%20Ford%20Co/Item%2002.pdf

11/25/1963 Oscar Deslatte (salesman) is interviews by FBI. Shown Oswald photo. Negative identification.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47745#relPageId=56&tab=page

5/2/1967 Fred Sewell, manager Bolton Ford, testifies for JG and for the first time, adds the name “Lee” to the “story.” Testimony starts as item 92 and relevant portion is item 94.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7564934?q=jim%20garrison%20alcock

6/8/1967 Charlie Waters interview.
He says Dalzell was head of FDC. Claims that Dalzell and himself (1961) were working on a deal with Edgardo Zapata where they would help overthrow the Honduras government for help in overthrowing Castro. Waters claim he served in military intelligence (Marines) and was an Embassy guard while in the service. Waters is in contact with J. Walton Moore, Dallas CIA Officer in charge domestic contacts.
[Waters never left the states, shouldn’t have contact with Moore if so]
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76763#relPageId=2&tab=page

11/2/1967 William Dalzell Grand Jury Testimony. Background information on Dalzell, his anti Castro activities, relationship to FDC, and the Bolton Ford incident. Page 14 begins Bolton Ford incident. Dalzell claims Bannister recommended to him by Grady Durham. Previous to that, Bannister unknown to Dalzell. Confirms the FDC address listed on bid sheet and knowledge of Charlie Waters attempting to solicit funds and make purchases for FDC.
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Dalzell.pdf

12/18/1967 Betty Parot, once close to Dalzell, also an FBI informant who told FBI what Dalzell and FDC were up to. She claims to have met Joseph Moore and thinks he dies in BOP invasion. Also confirms Dalzell started the FDC, not Bannister. Parot claims Dalzell ran out of town by Ed Butler.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/Friends%20of%20Democratic%20Cuba/Item%2002.pdf






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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:34 am
Thanks for all that, Will. Yes, Dalzell was the mover and shaker on it, not Banister. As I posted previously, Banister was listed as a potential director, but the thing folded before that happened.

Re: CW - is the correct spelling "Waters" or "Watters"? Lots of docs have the latter and the two spellings may explain how the navy was able to deny knowledge of him. 

Dalzell did claim to GJ to be familiar with the name "Joseph Moore" and nominated Waters/Watters as someone who could held identify him. Did Garrison ever get to CW? 

I am tending to agree that CW was the Oswald figure at Bolton. I had always thought that it may have been one of Oswald's relatives on his father's side. I think Garrison also once mused on that possibility.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
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"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:48 am
Greg, I think his name is spelled Waters. He went on to become a prominent advocate for veterans affairs. Waters was a local “celebrity” amongst the veterans late in his life. Here is some evidence of that. https://youtu.be/Wm42O96uhLI

There are additional videos available, I cannot find now, where Waters himself is the speaker. They are not related to anything discussed here. (Bolton, Oswald, or NO)

There is also the allegations of Raymond Carnay, he claims to have encountered Waters in Dallas in 1961 as Waters was recruiting pilots for a new anti Castro organization. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673&relPageId=64

As far as JG, I don’t recall he ever spoke with or interviewed Charlie Waters. I don’t believe he did. No other researchers have either. He passed in 2015.
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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:12 am
I’ve also read somewhere else, maybe on this forum, that there is speculation that Carlos Bringuier was somehow involved with the incident. I found nothing to indicate CB was. However one of the more interesting items I found on CB was the fact his own NEPHEW was an informant for Castro! AND his nephew GAVE UP THE ENTIRE DRE operation in Cuba. Over 300 “agents” were rounded up because of him and the DRE essentially became obsolete in Cuba. I wonder why no one mentions this. I found it fascinating.
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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:14 am
Will Hart wrote:Greg, I think his name is spelled Waters. He went on to become a prominent advocate for veterans affairs. Waters was a local “celebrity” amongst the veterans late in his life. Here is some evidence of that. https://youtu.be/Wm42O96uhLI

There are additional videos available, I cannot find now, where Waters himself is the speaker. They are not related to anything discussed here. (Bolton, Oswald, or NO)

There is also the allegations of Raymond Carnay, he claims to have encountered Waters in Dallas in 1961 as Waters was recruiting pilots for a new anti Castro organization. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673&relPageId=64

As far as JG, I don’t recall he ever spoke with or interviewed Charlie Waters. I don’t believe he did. No other researchers have either. He passed in 2015.
Okay, Waters it is - but those searching MF are advised to check under both spellings in order t read Dalzell's GJ testimony.

In that testimony, Dalzell does describe Waters in a way that matches Oswald in some respects. Do you have an opinion as to why he would use the alias "Oswald" at Bolton Ford?

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
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"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:20 am
Greg, yes that is great advice. Use both spellings of the name to find the relevant documents. I have put together a PDF with hundreds of link in chronological order related to this incident. I may share that in the future if anyone is interested.

As far as the Oswald alias, I have no idea. At this time Oswald was in Minsk at the radio plant I believe. The newspaper articles and coverage of his “defection” were old news by then. I doubt they pulled it from there. It’s possible they knew another local Oswald and chose that name.

I’ve wondered if they used the name for some CI purposes.

Honestly why they chose Oswald is beyond me.
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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:31 am
Will Hart wrote:I’ve also read somewhere else, maybe on this forum, that there is speculation that Carlos Bringuier was somehow involved with the incident. I found nothing to indicate CB was. However one of the more interesting items I found on CB was the fact his own NEPHEW was an informant for Castro! AND his nephew GAVE UP THE ENTIRE DRE operation in Cuba. Over 300 “agents” were rounded up because of him and the DRE essentially became obsolete in Cuba. I wonder why no one mentions this. I found it fascinating.
Here is what you most like;y read on page one of this thread:

Big Jimbo doesn't look like he is very light on his feet and yet he continues to point to more elephants in the room that he is soon forced to dance around.


His latest elephant is that Oswald's old sparring partner, Carlos Bringuier was the person who phoned the FBI about Bolton Ford.


Someone needs to point out to Jimbo that Carlos was the PROPAGANDA officer for the DRE and he had previously tried to sell the idea that Oswald was a Leftist who had tried to infiltrate anti-Castro groups.

Here is the document. Jim was wrong. CB informed the Secret Service, not the FBI
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57720&relPageId=335

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:24 pm
Thanks for posting that again Greg. I had honestly forgotten about that document. The one thing I notice is the report claims the only information Deslatte has was the bid sheet with FDC on it. It leaves out the fact that “Oswald” was also on the sheet.

In addition Deslatte did not identify Oswald when shown photos so why would he tell a friend that “Oswald” had tried to purchase discounted trucks.

FWIW this incident is often described as men trying to buy jeeps or trucks. It’s my understanding they were actually trying to buy Econoline vans to convert into ambulances. The econoline has a model with a truck bed but I think the men were looking for the vans.
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Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:29 pm
Another interesting factoid about Mr. Dalzell is he made at least one trip into Cuba pre bay of pigs to scout the Cubans radio capabilities. However, I couldn’t find much information on that.
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Sat 05 Oct 2019, 8:34 am
Jim D. continues to talk about the Bolton a Ford incident on the Ed Forum and he is giving the wrong information. And I don’t know if he realizes that “Oswald” has been identified as most likely Charlie Waters. It’s my recollection that Stu Wexler is the first person to identify Waters as Oswald. Jim D continues to tell the wrong story. I’m not a Ed Forum member or I would let him know that Bolton Ford isn’t that mysterious...
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Sat 05 Oct 2019, 8:36 am
If he wanted to dig, then he could find out why Waters wound up in Dallas in 1963...
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