greg p wrote:From Richard Blling's Diaries...
"Gurvich finds White Rock Airport in Dallas shows trace of Ferrie . . ."
[Apparently a mechanic there told Bill Gurvich that Ferrie looked
"Gurvich has Arcacha address: 9915 Donegal Dr. . . . Had moved from 10746 Lake Gardens . . . Had once lived near White Rock Airport . . . Giant
plans to hold up on Arcacha . . . He may be suspect . . ."
For what it's worth...the CAP had an office White Rock Airport...
And again... for what it's worth... a bizarre story about "religion", gays, convenient memory loss, the CAP, youth "leaders" and White Rock...
adendum: I was suggesting that Ferrie may have gone to White Rock in regards to the gay friendly church.
Joe G Biles wrote:For everyone's information, CAP is certainly not a sinister
organization, and Ferrie, being only a captain, would have had no
reason to visit a CAP unit in Dallas. Furthermore, the Billings diary
doesn't make clear when exactly this person claims to have seen Ferrie
so he may (and probably didn't) have any connection with CAP at the
time, *if* the witness was remembering things correctly in the first
place. And CAP's only involvement with the third article you cite is
that the White Rock unit was involved in a search for a missing
Joe G. Biles, C/Lt Col, CAP
greg p wrote:Joe, I never said it (CAP) was (sinister). Nor was it my intention to make anyone believe it was (or is).
But it did do intelligence work for Cold War efforts. And any organization
at all, no matter how benign, can have "sinister" individuals within them.
eg pick a church - any church....
Apart from that, the Byrd connection is of great interest to some,
You do not know that Ferrie had no reason to visit the Dallas CAP. You are merely going from your own experience, and surmising that he would have no reason to visit on OFFICIAL Civil Air Patrol business.
As to the timing of when Ferrie was allegedly seen at White Rock, it is doubtful it would e of ny interest to Garrison unless the timing made it of interest.
Here's some more tidbits: The White Rock Community Church is not the only Gay friendly church in White Rock.
The one mentioned here: http://www.emmaus.edu/history/history_6.htm as
having its first meeting in the CAP office at White Rock Airport in 1967 -
Christ Congregation - is also gay friendly...
The founder at White Rock (Arthur Farstad) was an interesting character.
He settled in Dallas in September 1963. Some snippets from his eulogy:
"That story is so typical of Art. He was an individualist, walking to the
synch of a different percussionist. He had his own unique style and flare
to life. I often kidded him about being a seminary prof and Bible
translator and yet having an interest in the macabre. Art was an
aficionado of the Lincoln assassination, the Lizzy Borden ax murders, Jack
the Ripper, and the Lindberg kidnapping. Art was a Titanic buff long
before it was cool to be a Titanic buff. And who could forget his interest
in Sherlock Holmes and the mysteries of Dorothy Sayers and Agatha Christi?
If Art were here right now, he would point out that the name "Agatha"
comes from the Greek word that means 'good.'"
[My insert: NO INTEREST IN THE JFK ASSASSINATION????]
"Art was an old-fashioned bachelor and gentleman. His interests ranged
from classical music to the Olympics to handwriting analysis to roses. He
was an artist and a scholar, a modern Renaissance Man, with the mind of a genius inventor, the heart of a medieval romantic, and the soul of a
metaphysical poet. Who else, but a man with a boylike faith and walk with
God, would never skip his morning quiet time, and yet read those daily
devotions alternately in English, French, Latin, Norwegian, Greek, or
Hebrew? We shall not see his like again."
"Over the years, Art opened his home to seminary students, usually young
single men, for whom Art was a role model of scholarship, professionalism, character, and moral purity. Those men have gone on to become professors, missionaries, and ministers scattered around this globe. And like the Lord Jesus Christ, Art was a mentor and discipler not only of men, but also a teacher of women, whom he held in high regard, especially his mother, his sisters-in-law, his secretaries, and special friends like Mrs. Winifred Griffith Thomas Gillespie."
Draw your own conclusions.
Further searches on his name produce hundreds of pages, mainly dedicatednto arguments over his bible translations...
Joe G Biles wrote:What Byrd connection? Harold Byrd could hardly be described as a
"co-founder" of CAP like some have asserted. He was more a charter
member. The real founders were Gill Robb Wilson, Guy H. Beck, Fierello
LaGuardia, Maj Gen John F. Curry and a few others. Byrd served two
years as executive director (59-60). Ferrie was a captain, and an
ex-captain by the time LHO started working at the TSBD. A degenerate
like Ferrie would have never come into contact with anyone like Byrd
and I'm sure Dave Blackburst would probably confirm that there is no
evidence of any such contact.
Ferrie was as well connected to Harold Byrd as he was with Hap Arnold!
From the Handbook of Texas Online (which I believe belongs to the
University of Texas)
greg p wrote:"Byrd was a lifelong advocate of aeronautics. He had invested in his
cousin Adm. Richard E. Byrd's exploration of the poles, and Admiral Byrd
had named a mountain range in Antarctica for him. In 1938 Byrd was
appointed by Governor James Allred to the Texas Civil Aeronautics
Commission. In September 1941 Byrd and Gill Robb Wilson formed the Civil Air Patrol. During World War II Byrd commanded an antisubmarine base for the Civil Air Patrol at Beaumont. In 1968 he received the Alpha Eta Rho annual award for the man outside the aviation education profession to
contribute most to aviation. In 1963, in resistance to the activity of the
Teamsters' Union among farm workers in Texas, Byrd moved his frozen food business from Crystal City to La Pryor. He regarded the teamsters as 'a terrible cancer.'"
You are saying they have their history all wrong?
As for Ferrie an Byrd, I never said they were connected. Was alking about the Byrd connection to CAP.
Hhere is a little more on the churches:
"The assembly has commended three couples to the Lord's work - to the Wycliff Bible Translators in Mexico and to Horton Haven Christian Camp in Tennessee. Christian Believers Fellowship has six elders who take the active leadership in expository Bible teaching ministry. The believers reach out into the community with an Awana program."
"Pioneering brethren came often to Oklahoma City to help build and
encourage the assembly. Among them were Samuel Greer, Matthew Kennedy, Tommy Bush, Tom CmCullagh, John Elliott, Leonard Lindsted, F.W. Schwartz, and more recently Don Norbie. Jim Elliott, the missionary martyred in Ecuador, was in the assembly while studying with Wycliffe Bible Translation."
From Group Watch
"In 1945, SIL established Jungle Aviation and Radio Services (JAARS), a bush airline and technical services operation that has its headquarters in Waxhaw, NC. (2,6) JAARS has a fleet of 69 aircraft ranging from modern short take-off craft to DC-3 transports and helicopters. (6) SIL has a history of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) association and U. S. Agency for International Development (USAID) involvement. Following its policy of working with host governments, it often carries out U. S. foreign policy through programs funded by USAID. SIL's deputy director, Richard Pittman, led the organization into the Philippines and then Vietnam working directly with President Ramon Magsaysay in the Philippines and President Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam. Both Diem and Magsaysay worked closely with Colonel Edward Lansdale of the CIA. (6)"
SIL is the Summer Institute of Linguistics and was established by The
Wycliffe Bible Translators in order to enter countries on the pretext of
science rather than religion.
Of course, these Southern Baptists is where Albert Osborne enters the picture. I believe it's possible his "work" in Mexico was on behalf of Wycliffe Bible Translators, and through this can be found his CIA
connections... possibly his FBI interviews could clarify any WBT
connections... but don't have time right now to check.
But Baptists weren't the only ones doing the Government's work rather than the Lord's in Latin America. Quakers, Unitarians... and even the Old Catholic Church all did their bit...
Disclaimer: Further research in the years following this discussion failed to connect Osborne to Wycliffe Bibles or the CIA. Default conclusion is that he was a small time con-man fleecing old ladies for donation.
There were no further replies from Joe. The next and last post was by "Blackburst" real name Stephen Roy.
Blackburst wrote:Ferrie was forced out of the Civil Air Patrol on three occasions, the last
in June 1960. He then formed a phony chapter which lasted less than a
year, until he was arrested on morals charges. The CAP popped up a number of times in Ferrie's legal proceedings (1961-3), which the CAP monitored closely.
I have not seen any reliable record of contact between Ferrie and the CAP
after that time. The White Rock incident would have been in about 1966.
Any contact by Ferrie would probably have been unofficial, person to
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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