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Jack Edwin Dougherty

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Fri 20 Jan 2012, 9:46 pm
First topic message reminder :

Warren Commission reservations concerning Jack Dougherty


March 12, 1964, a memo was sent from Warren Commission lawyer Melvin A. Eisenberg to J. Lee Rankin. Eisenberg set out his suspicions concerning the testimony and actions of Jack Edwin Dougherty who was employed as an order-filler at the Texas School Book Depository.



The memo was sent approximately one month before Dougherty was due to give his sworn testimony concerning events in the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963 in front of the Warren Commission.



Although TSBD superintendent Roy Sansom Truly tried to paint a picture of Jack Dougherty as being mentally retarded I believe the facts claim otherwise. He finished High School in Dallas. He was accepted into the Army where he served for just over two years. He was also quite articulate according to his Warren Commission testimony even though he did seem to make errors concerning times and dates.



The “retardation” is simply a cover story.



Here is the memo:



MEMORANDUM

TO: J Lee Rankin

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

SUBJECT: Identity of Assassin



I think a thorough investigation should he run on a TSBD employee named Jack Dougherty.



On the morning of November 22, Dougherty was part of a crew laying a new plywood floor on the sixth floor of the TSBD. This crew consisted of Danny Arce, Dougherty, Charles Givens, James ("Junior") Jarman, Billy Lovelady, and Bonnie Rae Williams, all regular employees in the TSBD shipping and. order-filling department.

They were apparently working under the direction of William Shelley the senior employee in that department.



In a written statement to the Dallas police on November 22,

Dougherty gave the following story: On the morning of November 22, he had worked [with the floor laying crew] on the sixth floor until 12:00, when he went down to the first floor to eat his lunch. After lunch he returned to work [on the sixth floor] and then went down to the fifth floor "to get some stock," when he heard a shot, which sounded as if it had come from inside the building. He then went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, the TSBD Janitor, whether Piper had heard anything. Piper said yes, he had heard 3 shots. Dougherty then returned to the sixth floor. (81B.20)[


SA Blake of the Secret Service, who interviewed Dougherty between December 2 and December 5, reported that "when Dougherty was interviewed he seemed to be very confused about time and places. Mr. Truly [Roy S. Truly, Superintendent of the TSBD] finished the information that although Dougherty is a very good employee and a hard worker, he is mentally retarded and has difficulty in remembering facts, such as dates, times, places, and. has-been especially confused since the assassination." (SS 1*91 at p. 7)



I am suspicious of Dougherty for several reasons.



(1) He has no alibi. Of the six employees on the floor laying crew, Givens claims to have been with a friend at a parking lot several blocks away when the assassination took place; Williams and Jarman were together on the fifth floor with another employee named Norman; Lovelady was standing outside the TSBD (and was photographed); and Arce claims to have been standing outside the TSBD.

Dougherty was inside the TSBD and all alone.


(2) His story is very thin.

(a) It does not make sense that Dougherty, one of a six-man floor laying crew, should begin working before the other five members returned from lunch.

(b) It is questionable that Dougherty would have had to go to the fifth floor to get "stock" in connection with the floor-laying project.



1/ Dougherty’s father told the FBI that Dougherty had received a medical discharge from the U.S. Army and had considerable difficulty coordinating his mental facilities and his speech. (5.367)





(c) Jarman, Norman, and Williams, who were at the southeast window of the fifth floor at the time of the assassination, and ran from there to the southwest window, make absolutely no mention of having seen Dougherty on the fifth floor.

(d) It does not seem credible that Dougherty would have gone down to the first floor, found out that the three shots had been fired, and then casually returned to the sixth floor.

(e) No report indicates that Dougherty or anyone else was on the sixth floor when that floor was searched

(f) Since Dougherty heard the shots on the fifth floor, and since the shots were fired at approximately 12:32, Dougherty must have returned to the sixth floor, allegedly to go back to work, before 12:30. This seems odd, since the TSBD lunch period extends until 12:45.

(3) If Dougherty is “mentally retarded,” it may explain some of the inconsistencies in his story. On the other hand, the “mental retardation” may be an emotional problem, which would itself be grounds for suspicion. In this connection, I find disturbing Truly’s comment that Dougherty “has been especially confused since the assassination.”



cc: Ball

Belin

Craig

Adams

Specter

Redlich



A couple of questions jump out of this:




  • None of these “concerns” or “suspicions” were explicitly discussed with Dougherty when he was on the stand and from the existing record they weren’t discussed with him by the FBI or the Dallas Police after Eisenberg had raised them.

  • Eisenberg claims the time of the shots was 12:32PM. This is the time also laid out in other documents relating to the assassination investigation. So what time was Kennedy actually shot?


Last edited by Admin on Fri 20 Jan 2012, 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Word change - formatting)

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Thu 26 Sep 2013, 1:26 am
Colin Crow wrote:Oswald made short phone calls at lunchtime according to Piper.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/34/3420-001.gif
His statement says "usually" made phone calls, Colin.
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Thu 26 Sep 2013, 5:23 am
Bill Shelley testified that he saw Oswald near the phone on the first floor, at about 10 or 15 minutes before noon:

 
Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, the day the President was shot, when is the last time you saw Oswald?
 
Mr. SHELLEY. It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12.
 
Mr. BALL. Where?
 
Mr. SHELLEY. On the first floor over near the telephone.
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Mon 21 Oct 2013, 9:58 pm
I can't find any pictures of Jack Daugherty over the internet. Had no problems with Bonney Ray Williams, James Jarman, Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Truly, Eddie Piper etc., but no picture of this guy... 

Was he (Daugherty) black or white? If we assume that Eddie Piper was `elderly Negro`, seen in the 6th floor of TSBD by Arnold Rowland, could Daugherty been the other (white) one?
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 5:59 am
9K116 wrote:I can't find any pictures of Jack Daugherty over the internet. Had no problems with Bonney Ray Williams, James Jarman, Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Truly, Eddie Piper etc., but no picture of this guy... 

Was he (Daugherty) black or white? If we assume that Eddie Piper was `elderly Negro`, seen in the 6th floor of TSBD by Arnold Rowland, could Daugherty been the other (white) one?
No photographs of JD exist other than a couple of photos that show him in a group school military regiment (early 1940's) and we don't know which one is him. 

Jack was Caucasian.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:06 am
Lee Farley wrote:
9K116 wrote:I can't find any pictures of Jack Daugherty over the internet. Had no problems with Bonney Ray Williams, James Jarman, Buell Wesley Frazier, Roy Truly, Eddie Piper etc., but no picture of this guy... 

Was he (Daugherty) black or white? If we assume that Eddie Piper was `elderly Negro`, seen in the 6th floor of TSBD by Arnold Rowland, could Daugherty been the other (white) one?
No photographs of JD exist other than a couple of photos that show him in a group school military regiment (early 1940's) and we don't know which one is him. 

Jack was Caucasian.
Mr. BALL - Will you state your name and address for the record?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Jack Edwin Dougherty.
Mr. BALL - And your address?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 1827 South Marsalis.
Mr. BALL - How old are you?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Forty.
Mr. BALL - Where were you born?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Here in Dallas.

Mr. BALL - Where did you go to school?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Sunset High School.
Mr. BALL - You went through Sunset High School?

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What year did you get out of high school? About?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, 1937.
Mr. BALL - 1937?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.

 
Here's a picture of a Jack Daugherty as a senior in the 1937 Sunset High School yearbook (note the spelling of the last name):


Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Jack_d10
 
If this is the Jack of interest, it could be that his last name was routinely misspelled (I know a guy surnamed Johnsen who told me people have misspelled his name all of his life, thinking it's Johnson). Also, if this is the Jack and he was 18 here, the normal age for a senior, he would have been about 44 or 45 years old when he gave his testimony on April 8, 1964.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 1:52 pm
Stan,

An "A" to you for effort. Dougherty told the WC he "left" high school in 1937, but he did not
say he graduated/ He also stated was 40 years of age on that date in 1964. He would have
been 14 years old in a 1937 yearbook if he was presented as a member of the senior class.

Page 4 of the thread, started by Greg, probably includes all the highlights of Dougherty's background. He and his parents share a gravestone and it displays his birth year as 1923.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18068&page=4 This inforrmation is also available at findagrave.com .
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 3:09 pm
Tom Scully wrote:Stan,

An "A" to you for effort. Dougherty told the WC he "left" high school in 1937, but he did not
say he graduated/ He also stated was 40 years of age on that date in 1964. He would have
been 14 years old in a 1937 yearbook if he was presented as a member of the senior class.

Page 4 of the thread, started by Greg, probably includes all the highlights of Dougherty's background. He and his parents share a gravestone and it displays his birth year as 1923.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18068&page=4 This inforrmation is also available at findagrave.com .
Thanks for the calibration Tom.
 
Checking the links you provided, I see that Jack's father was Redfern C. Dougherty. That name rang a bell, so I went back to the 1937 Yearbook and I found a Redfern C. Dougherty Jr. listed on the very next page. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Jack's older brother.

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 5Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Redfer10
Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 5
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 3:45 pm
Brother Redfern four years later, 1941 (He was born in 1921, he is on the right, top image.)
Austin > Longhorn of the Cultural and Mechanical College > 1941 > 115

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Doughe11
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 4:54 pm
Jack seems to have changed the spelling himself:
http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/Texas/Redfern-Daugherty_5k2323

This statement is supposedly in his writing. It clearly says "Dougherty"
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/01/0130-001.gif

If this is the Jack Edwin Daugherty, then he does not appear to have any cognitive problems. If anything, the data suggests he was well advanced for his age... in his senior year about 3 or 4 years ahead of schedule, interested in the classical languages and a musician and athlete to boot.

Maybe the Army turned him into Lenny Small. Whatever, but if this is the right guy, it suggests something went horribly wrong with him to wind up a 40+ year old bachelor living with his parents, working in the deadest of dead-end jobs and taking on the role of obedient servant to Roy Truly.

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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 5:17 pm
Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 67466268_130115091800
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=67466268

(Wrong ones are found almost effortlessly, compared to the one you are searching for.)

http://www.qcwa.org/w5nsq-sk.htm
W5NSQ - August 9, 2008
W5NSQ - Jackson T. 'Jack' Daugherty Jackson T. 'Jack' Daugherty
New Braunfels, TX
QCWA # 7274
Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 W5nsq-sk
Major Jackson Temple "Jack" Daugherty (US Army Retired) passed away on August 9, 2008 in New Braunfels, Texas. He was born on September 25, 1919 in Amarillo, Texas to Jackson Hamilton Daugherty and Lottie Belle Sargent Daugherty. Jack grew up in Dallas, Texas, graduating from Sunset High School in 1937. He was enrolled in Texas A&M College in 1938 and later enrolled in the University of Texas, studying Business Administration.

He left school to enlist in the U.S. Army on February 14, 1941. After WWII, Jack was assigned to the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project (AFSWP) at Sandia Base, New Mexico. Jack retired from the U.S. Army as a Major in 1961.

He was hired by RCA to go back to Korea as the Chief Radio and Television Engineer for the American Forces Korean Network (AFKN) for 4 years. The U.S. Army then hired him to go to Okinawa as an Electronic Engineer for the 'Strategic Army Communications' (STRATCOM) for work in Vietnam, Thailand, and the Phillippine Islands. Jack later became a Contracting Officer and in 1969 was assigned to Singapore as Chief of the Army Contracting office there.

Jack is a Life Member of several Masonic Lodges AF&AM, The Scottish Rite (32nd Degree), the National Rifle Association, Disabled American Veterans, Veterans of Foreign Wars, The American Legion, The Retired Officer Assn, The Quarter Century Wireless Assn, the American Radio Relay League, The American Association of Retired People and the 'Good Sam' RV Club.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 6:24 pm
Hmmm...doesn't seem to tie up, does it?...

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, of course, a year or so, you might say--just work in grocery stores until I was 19 and volunteered for the Armed Services in October--October 24, 1942.
Mr. BALL - How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact.
Mr. BALL - And you were discharged from the Service, then, after the War, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did you do during the service---during your period in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, you might say just about a little bit of everything, from guard duty to---
Mr. BALL - Did you have any active service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, no--I volunteered for active service, but they said you couldn't very well volunteer--you have to be drafted, so they said, they told me at the time.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.
Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged.
Mr. BALL - You didn't ever go outside the country to Europe?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, no.
Mr. BALL - Or to the South Seas?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You stayed in this country all the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Now, did you ever have any difficulty with your speech?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You never had any?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever have any difficulty in the Army with any medical treatment or anything of that sort?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - None at all?

BUT, Ball seemed to be asking questions that, it appears to me at least that he already has the answers for but doesn't get the same answers from Dougherty...if you notice, he asks many of the questions twice (or more) as if saying to himself "Hang on, that's not what I've got here, let's ask that again..."

Strange...
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 6:38 pm
ianlloyd wrote:Hmmm...doesn't seem to tie up, does it?...

Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, of course, a year or so, you might say--just work in grocery stores until I was 19 and volunteered for the Armed Services in October--October 24, 1942.
Mr. BALL - How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact.
Mr. BALL - And you were discharged from the Service, then, after the War, was it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
If he voluntered in Army in October 24, 1942, then 2 years, 1 month and 17 days from that will make year 1944, around December ~10th. The War was not ended at that moment and Mr. Dougherty is, as minimum, wrong in his answer somewhere.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 6:53 pm
Amazing how well he remembers exact dates from 20 or so years before but then seemingly gets totally confused about something that happened a few months previously!?!?
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:12 pm
Am I the only one here who thinks that Major Jackson Temple "Jack" Daugherty (US Army Retired) could be visually the same person that on the snapshot of `classmates` site as `Jack Daugherty` from `sernior class 1937` and that face of said person has similar traits with Redfern C. Daugherty from both pictures, provided by Stan Dane and Tom Scully (similar enough they could be brothers)?

I believe we can't prove it's the same person, but it's not the case when this is definitely not the person either...
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:30 pm
Redfern C Dougherty, at age 20, on left:

Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Doughe13 Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 W5nsq-skJack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Daughe10


Last edited by Tom Scully on Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:36 pm
Tom Scully wrote:Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 W5nsq-sk Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Daughe10
Yep. same person and not "our" Jack.

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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:50 pm
Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 64864dd09703

Could be brothers?
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 9:54 pm
9K116 wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks that Major Jackson Temple "Jack" Daugherty (US Army Retired) could be visually the same person that on the snapshot of `classmates` site as `Jack Daugherty` from `sernior class 1937` and that face of said person has similar traits with Redfern C. Daugherty from both pictures, provided by Stan Dane and Tom Scully (similar enough they could be brothers)?

I believe we can't prove it's the same person, but it's not the case when this is definitely not the person either...
Something definitely does not add up here but I'm in agreement that the 1937 Sunset High School Jack Daugherty is most certainly the same person as Major Jackson Temple Daugherty and that if the 1937 Jack Daugherty and Redfern Dougherty aren't related in some way then I'd be very surprised.  The Redfern Dougherty photo where he is looking to our left rather than the photo where he is facing the camera directly gives the best likeness between the pair.

Interesting life that Major (Ret) Jackson Daugherty had.

The Jack E. Dougherty mystery continues...
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:15 pm
if the 1937 Jack Daugherty and Redfern Dougherty aren't related in some way then I'd be very surprised.
They still can be cousins or similar relatives, for example. Then there is relation and, on other hand, dead end of this direction.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:24 pm
Tom's find is still important.

Brother Redfern had 3 years in ROTC's Crack Company and attended ROTC Camp Dallas 2 years running. 

Apart from being a Dallas ROTC program, I have no idea what "Crack Company" was, but I don't think it was a secret society of coke snorters. Camp Dallas was a month long ROTC camp. 

During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.  

Jack does not appear to have been in the ROTC - but did spend his army stint at an Indiana base where all the state-of-the-art German aircraft were brought for reverse engineering.  

In 1972, Redfern Dougherty, Jr was made Manager of General Accounting for the Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Corp based in Houston.  http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3443065

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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:34 pm
I just read this two hours ago, from Joan Mellen's Wecht conference presentation. Substitute Jack Dough/Daugh .....

Pg. 2

....Another CIA document refers to the Agency’s use of the name “Jack Martin” as a “generic,” which was their term. As Louisiana HSCA investigator L. J. Delsa, a former New Orleans homicide officer, explained to me, this was so you could never be certain you were dealing with the correct Jack Martin. ..... http://joanmellen.com/wordpress/
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:45 pm
Tom Scully wrote:I just read this two hours ago, from Joan Mellen's Wecht conference presentation. Substitute Jack Dough/Daugh .....

Pg. 2

....Another CIA document refers to the Agency’s use of the name “Jack Martin” as a “generic,” which was their term. As Louisiana HSCA investigator L. J. Delsa, a former New Orleans homicide officer, explained to me, this was so you could never be certain you were dealing with the correct Jack Martin. ..... http://joanmellen.com/wordpress/
Tom and others,

Do you recall what author/researcher it was that got an opportunity to spend time at the TSBD after he applied for a job there and got to meet "Jack Dougherty" in person?  Was it Larry Harris?  I seem to remember that whenever the assassination got mentioned Jack would say he "wasn't supposed to talk about it" and quickly disengage.

One suspicion could be that there was no such person as "Jack Dougherty" and it was simply a cover but if Jack Dougherty was still working at the depository years after the event it would appear less likely as an avenue of thought.

Still no picture of the person who we regard as "Jack" and yet more questions.
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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 10:54 pm
The change of one letter kind of reminded of Crafard/Craford...

It would be good to rule such a subtle change in or out as intelligence SOP in certain circumstances. 

Larry's story that it was a clerical error made by the Army that he stuck with sounds like utter crap to me.'

And I can't for the life of me, understand why you'd change "Daugherty" to "Dougherty". But the whole family appears to have done it.

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Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:20 pm
greg parker wrote:The change of one letter kind of reminded of Crafard/Craford...

It would be good to rule such a subtle change in or out as intelligence SOP in certain circumstances. 

Larry's story that it was a clerical error made by the Army that he stuck with sounds like utter crap to me.'

And I can't for the life of me, understand why you'd change "Daugherty" to "Dougherty". But the whole family appears to have done it.
It may be a pronunciation issue involved.  If they pronounced their surname [Do-erty] but it was spelled [Daugherty] then it could result in the surname being spelled [Dougherty] when giving your name verbally in person or over the phone.

Same deal if they prounounced their surname [Dock-erty].  Maybe it was easier to spell it the way most people wrote it?

I lived in Ireland for a number of years and met many Daughertys.  I have spent quite a bit of time in Scotland and have met quite a few Doughertys.  I have also met a few Dohertys.  I suppose it depends on your experiences with the surname.  If I asked a cross-section of my co-workers to write down the surname [Daugherty] by pronouncing it I guarantee they would all spell it [Dougherty].

The Crafard/Craford angle is interesting - seeing as how it is also the same letter being changed.
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Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Tue 22 Oct 2013, 11:31 pm
As for me English is only third language, I can't see any differences between Daugherty, Dougherty and Doherty. I never remember which variant is correct one, and only because today I spent more time on this certain thread, I learned that `our` Jack correctly is Dougherty...

My guess is that hearing said surname I will instinctively spell it as Daugherty, I do not know why.
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Jack Edwin Dougherty - Page 2 Empty Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

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