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    Roger Odisio
    Posts : 155
    Join date : 2017-10-02

    Vickie Adams Empty Vickie Adams

    Sat 30 Dec 2023, 11:25 am
    A 1966 interview Vickie Adams did with Mark Lane and Mort Sahl has surfaced in which Adams says, quite matter of factly, she did see Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor after she came down the stairs following the murder.  This contradicts what Barry Ernest, in his book, the Girl on the Stairs, says both Adams and her companion down the stairs, Sandra Styles, told him. 

    Ernest surmised that WC staff had inserted the claim of seeing S&L into Adams' testimony without Adams' knowledge to discredit her, and he says she agreed.  

    Ernest sought the stenotapes of the Adams' testimony at NARA to resolve the matter.  But he was told they, and the tapes of both S&L, were missing.  Seemed pretty convincing.

    But you, Greg, didn't agree. You said that Sean Murphy wasn't convinced either and had several conversations with Adams and Styles, who seemed reluctant to go along with the story.  I don't recall if there was an outcome of that.

    The story seems to have turned. I posted a message on Ernest's facebook page asking for his take. Mysteriously the first part of the message where I said it looks like there is a problem with your story, has already disappeared. I hope he responds. 

    There is also a current thread at EF where I took the opportunity to relate your skepticism of a few months ago. My point there is that there is a lot of other evidence that Oswald never came down those stairs besides what Adams may have said.

    https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30023-vickie-adams-interview/
    greg_parker
    greg_parker
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    Vickie Adams Empty Re: Vickie Adams

    Sat 30 Dec 2023, 12:10 pm
    Roger Odisio wrote:A 1966 interview Vickie Adams did with Mark Lane and Mort Sahl has surfaced in which Adams says, quite matter of factly, she did see Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor after she came down the stairs following the murder.  This contradicts what Barry Ernest, in his book, the Girl on the Stairs, says both Adams and her companion down the stairs, Sandra Styles, told him. 

    Ernest surmised that WC staff had inserted the claim of seeing S&L into Adams' testimony without Adams' knowledge to discredit her, and he says she agreed.  

    Ernest sought the stenotapes of the Adams' testimony at NARA to resolve the matter.  But he was told they, and the tapes of both S&L, were missing.  Seemed pretty convincing.

    But you, Greg, didn't agree. You said that Sean Murphy wasn't convinced either and had several conversations with Adams and Styles, who seemed reluctant to go along with the story.  I don't recall if there was an outcome of that.

    The story seems to have turned. I posted a message on Ernest's facebook page asking for his take. Mysteriously the first part of the message where I said it looks like there is a problem with your story, has already disappeared. I hope he responds. 

    There is also a current thread at EF where I took the opportunity to relate your skepticism of a few months ago. My point there is that there is a lot of other evidence that Oswald never came down those stairs besides what Adams may have said.

    https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30023-vickie-adams-interview/

    Styles initially wasn't sure that she and Adams left right away after the shots. But after discussion she deferred to Adams, according to Ernest.  Garner corroborated Adams's sense of timing.

    You need to read Murphy's exchanges with Styles.

    It is clear that the timelines (and movements) of some have been shifted.

    I will take anything Murphy said over anything Ernest says. Maybe that's bias at work, but I don't think so. Take Murphy out of it and I still have a bad gut reaction to Ernest.

    _________________
    Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                  Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me


    "So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
    Don Jeffries

    "I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

    https://gregrparker.com
    greg_parker
    greg_parker
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    Vickie Adams Empty Re: Vickie Adams

    Sat 30 Dec 2023, 1:14 pm
    Below is a direct copy and paste from a Sean Murphy post on another forum. Roger, you did read this as I posted it previously and you were one of the people who responded. 

    Background to exchanges

    A couple of years back, I made contact with Sandra Styles. She told me that she felt Victoria Adams had significantly exaggerated the speed with which the pair descended from the fourth to the first floor after the shooting.

    In the light of Barry Ernest's new book 'The Girl on the Stairs', I decided to contact Sandra once again to discuss this matter. She has some rather interesting things to say.

    Rather than summarise them (and risk putting words in Sandra's mouth), I shall simply offer the relevant text from Sandra's own emails. In a number of places I've asterisked key details.

    Before doing so, however, I would like to apologise to Barry Ernest for having on a previous occasion called his integrity as a researcher into question. The gap between what Sandra has told me and what Barry says she told him is not at all as large as I had alleged. My apologies, Barry.
    Sean Murphy
    ***
    First email from Sean
    In my first email I asked Sandra to respond to the following words from Barry (as posted on a research forum), who was himself responding to what Sandra had told me a couple of years back:

    'When I interviewed Sandra Styles in 2002, she said absolutely nothing of the kind to me. What she did say was, she couldn't be sure exactly how quickly she left the window and went down the stairs, but she recalled she did so "rather quickly," in her words, and "when Vicki did," again in her words. Why she would say otherwise now, especially when she said what she did then and added, "Vicki was the more observant one," is beyond me.'

    Here was Sandra's response:
    'First of all, I do not recall that Barry put much emphasis on the timing or that we spent time discussing that aspect. I stand by what I said to you. *At the time, I first thought we went downstairs quickly; but in thinking about it further, I came to the conclusion that it was not immediately. I told an interviewer (FBI? not sure) that when we got downstairs, the police were there so I assumed we went down quickly; however, the interviewer told me that it took the police 15-20 minutes to get to the Depository, so I accepted that we must have taken longer to get downstairs than I first thought.* I went
    with what Victoria said because she spoke with such certainty;
     since I
    couldn't say for sure, I didn't argue with her. *She also told office workers that on the way down, she noticed the freight elevator cables were moving.* I'm not sure what that would prove; but since I did not notice that, that is what I meant when I said she was more observant.


    Barry was working closely with her, and I didn't want to get into it with her when I couldn't prove it either way.


    Barry's main discussion with me concerned the outlay of the office:
    the exact location of the back stairs in relation to the other elevator, which direction the building faced, etc
    . Since I didn't have scanning capabilities, I had to describe all that verbally in several emails. We were all interviewed several times by different entities over the next year. I always said the the same thing to each one: that I had nothing of importance to help their investigation. Their concern was whether I knew Oswald, had ever seen him, etc. As to the timing of the whole thing, I wasn't sure then and can't say for certain now. I only go by what seems reasonable. I can only report my personal recollections the best I can. I was easily led back then  ol. *If she said we went down immediately, I thought that must be true. If the interviewer said that was not possible due to the amount of time it took the police to get over there, I re-thought it and accepted HIS assessment.The truth may lie somewhere in between.


    What is logical is that, in all the pandemonium, it is unlikely that we would hear shots and head for the back stairs!'



    [size=13]In my reply, I put two points to Sandra:

    1) The authorities' claim that it took 15-20 minutes for police to get to the Depository was way off.

    2) Barry had come across the so-called Stroud document, in which Dorothy Ann Garner is reported to have told authorities she saw Baker and Truly come up onto the fourth floor AFTER Adams and Styles had left it.

    Sandra's response:

    'Hmmmmmmm, points to ponder. At this point, I'm wondering whether I was even there! hahaha
    1. My initial sense was that we went down soon after, and the 15-20 minute delay given by the investigator DID seem a bit long, but I took his word for it. We did linger at the window a bit trying to sort it out, and I'm sure it was Vicki's idea to go find out what was going on; therefore we wouldn't have waited a long time to make the decision to go downstairs. I am certain that we went to the public elevator first, but may not have waited long there either. My hesitancy on the timing in all the interviews probably accounts for why they did not pursue further information from me. As I told everyone who ever
    asked, I had no real sense of that aspect of the investigation.

    Still, logic tells me it had to take a couple of minutes at least for things to sink in and to make the decision to go. Therefore, *I'll give up a few of those minutes but still don't remember it's being a
    matter of a few seconds. However, I yield to wiser heads if the evidence is there.*

    2. I know nothing of Dorothy Garner's part. I don't know where she was at the time. Her office was near the front elevator, but she could have been in the lunch area on the other side near the back stairsIt seems odd to me that if the two men ran up the back stairs a minute or so after the shooting, we did not encounter them on our way down even if we had left immediately and even more strange that
    Mrs. Garner would have been in a position to see them coming up. It all goes back to the fact that I could be totally off on my calculations, and anything is possible. I cannot swear in any venue
    that what I thought was actually true. I still see it all in my mind's eye and have not changed my opinion about what we did and when, but I could be mistaken about the number of minutes. I suppose I
    could blame the fact that I am 71 and let it go at that!! No, that would be too easy.'
    [/size]


    [size=13]---------------------------

    I think her uncertainty makes her a better, not worse witness than the very self-assured Ms Adams.

    And I totally agree with her - not seconds - at the very least, minutes - And also agree with her skepticism about Garner being in place to see the Dynamic Duo coming up the stairs. 

    And despite what she was told about when the police were there - other witnesses have police streaming in much quicker than 15 to 20 minutes. The FBI seems to be referring to the arrival of our little corner group. 
    [/size]

    _________________
    Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                  Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me


    "So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
    Don Jeffries

    "I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

    https://gregrparker.com
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    Vickie Adams Empty Re: Vickie Adams

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