Frazier And His Polygraph Test

This is from the book "The Day Kennedy Was Shot" by Jim Bishop.



The car was on Stemmons westbound, and there was relief in the back seat. Wesley Frazier had answered all the questions of the police as honestly as he could, and he and Linnie Mae were  homeward bound to Irving. The detectives sat in the front, and they were tired. Rose and Stovall had been working since 8 A.M., and it was becoming difficult to concentrate. The Reverend Campble knew that Frazier and Mrs. Randall had done their duty as good citizens, telling what they knew about Oswald, adding nothing.


The young man was happy to be free. He realized that just being friendly with a man like Oswald could lead to trouble. For a young man who had specialized in minding his own business, it was a frightening experience to be taken to headquarters, to be asked about curtain rods which might turn out to be a rifle, to be regarded as a buddy of Oswald’s when the facts pointed to the neighborly Linnie Mae helping Oswald to get a job at the Texas School Book Depository. Wesley Frazier had added free rides on the weekend.


The car was approaching the Irving Boulevard exit when headquarters called. Detective G. F. Rose picked up the microphone and acknowledged call letters. Headquarters asked that the car turn around at once and bring Wesley Frazier and his sister back to Dallas. The driver slowed and made a
U turn. No one asked why. Frazier and Linnie Mae couldn’t think of any questions which the police might have forgotten to ask them. There was always a vague danger that Lee Oswald might have implicated Frazier in some way, but no one wanted to dwell on that. Wesley couldn’t see how anyone could implicate him in anything, but Oswald was such a strange person—even more frightening now that no one discounted the notion that he might try to drag his benefactor down with him.


Rose said he was sorry. It was an order; he didn’t think it would amount to much. The car seemed to get back into the basement of City Hall much faster than it got out. The witnesses were taken up to the bedlam of the third floor, and detectives helped to pry a path for them. The two people sat with their Baptist minister. He, too, was trying to dissipate the gloom by reminding them that they had nothing to fear.


A detective came in, looked at Wesley Frazier, and said: “You got any objections to a polygraph test?” Another policeman explained that it was nothing; you sit in a chair with a blood pressure cuff on and they ask some questions. If you’re telling the truth, the blood pressure remains pretty steady; if you’re lying, it goes up. Frazier looked at his sister. He said he had nothing to hide.
“Good,” Rose said. “It won’t take long.” They led the boy up the stairs to the Identification Bureau. Captain Dowdy said that the man who conducts the polygraph tests was at home. They might have to wait. He phoned Detective R. D. Lewis. The policeman was willing to come in, but it would
take an hour to get back to headquarters. Dowdy told him to come in. A policeman was placed with Wesley Frazier. “Son,” a cop said, “I think you’re going to have to wait an hour. You might as well relax.” “What’s this test like?” Wesley Frazier said. Nothing to it, he was told. You just relax and tell the truth. He thought he already had told the truth. He couldn’t imagine anything further he could tell the police, but it was obvious that whoever wanted him back here wouldn’t want a truth test unless he was suspected of not telling it.





Lewis removed his coat and nodded politely to Wesley Frazier. Sometimes a polygraph operator wonders if his brother officers understand the procedure. They thought that all he had to do was to take a subject like Frazier, ask him questions, and watch a needle jump. Officer R. D. Lewis was a qualified operator. He called Adamcik into the other room to ask a few questions about the frightened boy. The more he knew about Wesley, the better the setup for the test. The office lights were turned up, an armchair was turned so that it faced a blank wall. Lewis arranged the blood pressure cuff for a human arm and looked at the needle tracings on a paper on his desk. Who was this kid? What was his name and what kind of material was Fritz interested in?


The kid’s name was Wesley Frazier. He lived less than a block away from Oswald’s wife. Frazier worked at the School Book Depository with Oswald and drove him home on weekends. Homicide was pretty sure that Oswald was the man they were looking for, but this Frazier kid was
something else. A rifle was found in his house. He could possibly be a party to the assassination. Hours ago he had been questioned in Robbery, but he seemed scared. The kid was halfway home when Fritz got this idea for a polygraph test.

Lewis asked more questions. He needed them as controls. Captain Dowdy beckoned for Frazier to be brought in. The test was explained to him. The first order of business was to sit in that chair and try to relax. He would find that it wasn’t as easy as it looked. The best way to relax, he was told, would be to keep reminding oneself that you are going to tell the truth, no matter whom it hurts.


The boy sat. The cuff was wrapped around his arm, and his sleeve was shoved high. He was told to stare at the wall and try to think of nothing. Lewis, at his desk, studied the pulsing of the needle. He was getting steady vertical tracings. The beats were fast; that was nervousness. He waved the others back out of sight and began the test.


It took time to get the control questions and the placidity of the victim juxtaposed so that, on
simple interrogations such as: “Do you live with your sister?” the needle would not jump. “Ever fire a gun?” induced a spasm peak. There was nothing incriminating in either question or answer (“Yes”), but Frazier, judging by the needle, bordered on controlled hysteria.


Officer Lewis reassured him several times, told him he was doing fine and not to worry about explanations when responding. If a question could be answered with “Yes” or “No,” use the single word. Also, when a question was asked which involved Lee Harvey Oswald, the answer would not necessarily involve Wesley. He might be asked if Oswald worked at the Texas School Book Depository building and the answer should be “Yes” without excitement.

Lewis realized that it would be a lengthy test, but he was a patient man. He expected a jump on the needle when he asked a control question such as: “Ever do anything you’re ashamed of?” or “When you were little, did you ever lie to your mother?” There were five police officers in the room and the doorway, and there wasn’t one who expected to learn anything from Wesley Buell Frazier.All they had managed to do was to scare the wits out of him.
 
On the floor below, Officer R. D. Lewis completed his polygraph test on Wesley Frazier. He had nothing to show for fifty minutes of work. Two policemen had been stationed behind a one-way mirror watching the witness and listening to his replies to questions, and they, too, were convinced that, if there was such a thing as an assassination plot, this young man was not a party to it.


Lewis ran through the tape, studying the controls and the intensity of response, and shook his head negatively. One of the policemen phoned Captain Fritz. The captain ordered the three detectives to release the boy and to take him home. The detectives were to report off duty and be available in the morning. It did not assist morale to know that Fritz was more overworked than his men. Stovall knew that he would get home about 2 A.M., after delivering Frazier and Linnie Mae Randall and the Baptist minister to their homes in Irving. The officers would have to be out of bed and ready before 8 A.M.The only man who might sleep straight through the night was Oswald.

Thanks Vinny. Never seen it before. Polygraph tests are full of shit IMO. It reminds me of those Scientology tools they use to recruit members. I think they have no merit. Wesley obviously felt intimidated but it may not have been the point that night. All Wesley had to say is that Oswald had brought a package in that day with curtain rods. The other questions were meaningless.

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:Thanks Vinny. Never seen it before. Polygraph tests are full of shit IMO. It reminds me of those Scientology tools they use to recruit members. I think they have no merit. Wesley obviously felt intimidated but it may not have been the point that night. All Wesley had to say is that Oswald had brought a package in that day with curtain rods. The other questions were meaningless.

Paul,

From what I can gather, the main point of the polygraph was about those curtain rods.

Read Will Fritz's testimony about 2/5 of the way down the page.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Steve Thomas

Steve Thomas wrote:

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:Thanks Vinny. Never seen it before. Polygraph tests are full of shit IMO. It reminds me of those Scientology tools they use to recruit members. I think they have no merit. Wesley obviously felt intimidated but it may not have been the point that night. All Wesley had to say is that Oswald had brought a package in that day with curtain rods. The other questions were meaningless.

Paul,

From what I can gather, the main point of the polygraph was about those curtain rods.

Read Will Fritz's testimony about 2/5 of the way down the page.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/fritz1.htm

Steve Thomas

Thanks Steve. I had vaguely remembered Fritz mentioning it in his testimony. Without the curtain rod story verified the DPD had a major gap.

I still have grave doubts about whether the polygraph was administered on Frazier. I can see how he may have been threatened with one however.

If memory serves me correct there are way too many different versions of the event, to know either way.

What is intriguing is that Linnie Mae and the Pastor were made to wait down stairs in the basement while the supposed polygraph was taken.

Randle, Frazier and Campbel according to reports were told to return to City Hall at around 9.00pm, reports suggest they were kept there until the early hours of Saturday morning, more than 4 hours.

Mick Purdy wrote:I still have grave doubts about whether the polygraph was administered on Frazier. I can see how he may have been threatened with one however.

If memory serves me correct there are way too many different versions of the event, to know either way.

What is intriguing is that Linnie Mae and the Pastor were made to wait down stairs in the basement while the supposed polygraph was taken.

Randle, Frazier and Campbel according to reports were told to return to City Hall at around 9.00pm, reports suggest they were kept there until the early hours of Saturday morning, more than 4 hours.

I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen either, Mick. They needed some proof of the fable so the polygraph provides one. Let's not forget we don't have a record of the results.

Mick Purdy wrote:I still have grave doubts about whether the polygraph was administered on Frazier. I can see how he may have been threatened with one however.

If memory serves me correct there are way too many different versions of the event, to know either way.

What is intriguing is that Linnie Mae and the Pastor were made to wait down stairs in the basement while the supposed polygraph was taken.

Randle, Frazier and Campbel according to reports were told to return to City Hall at around 9.00pm, reports suggest they were kept there until the early hours of Saturday morning, more than 4 hours.

Mick,

The fact that he was kept there so long leads me to believe just the opposite. I think he was given a polygraph, and the police didn't get the results they wanted. The police needed a package large enough to hold a disassembled rifle, and Frazier wasn't giving it to them. They went a did up an affidavit after the polygraph that Frazier wouldn't sign. Fritz got so mad at one point that he threatened to hit Frazier.

I find it odd that they would do an affidavit after the polygraph. If you were the police, wouldn't you draw up a written record of what a witness says, have him sign it, and then give him a polygraph and say, "It says here that you said, X, Y, and Z"?

Steve Thomas

Steve,
I'm not sure either way, he may have or he may not have taken the polygraph.

My work over the past years on Frazier suggests he was proned to lie and not because he was being coerced.

The cops also tore up his and Randles original statements and had them re written on their second visit. Frazier if he was at all influenced by his sisiter would have been singing the same tune by late Friday night.....you know the one, long sack - paper sack - brown- long enough to carry a rifle. Thats what Randle had spilled to the cops remember at approx 2.30pm. Way before the cops had got to Wes, or Randle

I'm sorry but I can't buy into the Fritz tried to hit me routine, that has only really surfaced over recent times coincidently with a book in mind from Frazier.

I think its a flip of a coin on whether he did or did not take a Poly test imo.

Frazier lied about almost everything from that day to authorities and I'm not convinced it was under duress or coercion.

He has way too much explaining to do in my book about so many things from that morning , around lunchtime and the 4 or so unexplained hours after the assassination.

Of course you could be right in that he may have taken the test.

Mick Purdy wrote:Steve,
I'm not sure either way, he may have or he may not have taken the polygraph.

Mick,

Read the FBI interview of Lewis, the poylgraph taker.

CD 7 page 291
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=298&tab=page

Frazier wasn't shown the paper bag LHO took to work that day.

Steve Thomas

Steve thanks for that,

I agree Frazier would never have been shown the bag Oswald took to work for obvious reasons, it was a lunch sack. A small paper bag for his lunch.

Now as for the FBI interview with Lewis on the 29/11/63 we can only assume that is a ligitimate reporting of what Lewis claimed. If memory serves me correctly he denied administering that test sometime later.

All I'm suggesting is that the threat of a Polygraph test may have been used as a tool to get Frazier to respond in a certain way.....

Whether he had it or not matters not , we don't have any clinical notes from which to draw any conclusions.

Frazier lied about that morning imo, and in my opinion Randle had foreknowledge of the sack which was to be discovered in at the TSBD at sometime just before 3.00pm

IMO Frazier was involved in the framing of LHO, possibly planting eveidence in at the TSBD (Where's your rider Thread)

There is one other slightly more speculative angle to contemplate about Fraziers second visit back at City hall for near on four hours.

Remembering that Randle and the Pastor were kept down stairs seperate from Frazier. Wes may have suggested when he was on the steps of the TSBD during and immediately after the assassination a certain individual was standing next to him to his right.

That utterence would have been enough for a melt down in at Police headquarters

Oswald is alleged to have said he was out front.

It is possible.

Authorities had already had to deal with Lovelady in Altgens 6




Thanks for the link mate, 

Mick

From the 1973 transcript George O'Toole interview with R. D. Lewis:



In 1973 R.D. Lewis was still on the Dallas Police force, and I called him there, and this is the conversation that we had:

LEWIS: Hello?
O'TOOLE: Detective Lewis, my name is George O'Toole. I'm a freelance writer and I'm working on a story about the Kennedy assassination. And I was wondering if I might have a few moments of your time now, if this isn't an inconvenient moment, I'd like to discuss a couple things with you. 
LEWIS: Well, I don't know where I could be of any assistance.
O'TOOLE: I was talking to Mr. Paul Bentley, and I asked him- I interviewed him at some length and- about his recollections with the evening of the arrest of Oswald.
LEWIS: Hm-hmm.
O'TOOLE: And I asked him would he think Oswald was given a polygraph examination. He said he didn't think he had. He would have been the one to do it. Although he was- was also he- I found out he injured his ankle during the arrest. He said that if there was such a polygraph examination given, it probably would have been yourself who did it.
LEWIS: Well, I didn't give him one. He wasn't given a polygraph examination.
O'TOOLE: He was not?
LEWIS: No, sir.
O'TOOLE: OK. There was another question. I found- my researchers tell me that there was a polygraph examination given to this gentleman who was an associate of Oswald's. A man named Buell Wesley Frazier. On the night of November 22nd. Would you have been the gentleman who gave that examination?
 
 
 
 
 
 

LEWIS: I'm not familiar with it. I don't remember conducting any examination whatsoever on Oswald or anyone connected with Oswald. 
O'TOOLE: In other words, you didn't- you did not give anybody a polygraph examination that night?
LEWIS: No. Not connected with Oswald.
O'TOOLE: Not connected with Oswald. I see.
LEWIS: I'm sure of that, now that you mention it. But that's alright. I didn't give him one.





As near as I can see R.D. Lewis never testified before the Warren Commission, and he never signed an affidavit affirming the administration of the polygraph test on Frazier on the 22/11/63

O'Toole interview with Stovall:








O'TOOLE: Sergeant Stovall, my name is George O'Toole. I'm not sure whether I have the right Richard Stovall or not. But I'm looking for the gentleman who was involved with investigating Wesley Frazier during the Kennedy assassination time, with Detective Gus Rose. Was that yourself?
STOVALL: Hm-hmm.
O'TOOLE: I was trying to reach Detective Rose and apparently he's away at school and I don't know where to reach him. I wonder if you'd mind chatting with me for a few moments? Won't take too much of your time. Uh, would that be all right?
STOVALL: Well, of course, it just depends. Uh-
O'TOOLE: Have you had a-
STOVALL: I don't know you and what you want.
O'TOOLE: OK. Well, let me- let me describe what I'm doing. I'm writing a magazine article on the-



 
some kind of history on the Kennedy assassination and it's just really a recapitulation of the assassination and then the things that have happened since then. And I was talking to Gerry Hill and Paul Bentley and a number of other people who were involved with the arrest. And we got to talking about polygraph examinations and whether Oswald had been given one. But I was looking in the Warren Report and it said there that Buell Wesley Frazier had been given a polygraph examination.
And I was trying to- I was trying to find out who had given him this examination and what the circumstances surrounding that were. And I was wondering if you recall that.
STOVALL: Mmm- I don't remember one was. In fact, I don't- I don't know that he did. That he had one at that time.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh. But do you recall that he was given an examination?
STOVALL: Well, now, I don't know, I tell you. With that- with that being (as long as) that and then you- 25 years, that being that time.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh.
STOVALL: Like I say- for what had happened.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh.
STOVALL: Without looking back at my notes or anything, I couldn't tell you for sure.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh. You don't recall-
STOVALL: But I do feel like he did have one.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh. But you don't remember the details of it?
STOVALL: No. Because, see, when they gave those examinations, we weren't up there. Just the polygraph examiner was.
O'TOOLE: Just the polygraph examiner and the subject?
STOVALL: Well, as far as I know.
O'TOOLE: Uh-huh. Then- OK.

Apparently Mr. Stovall forgot that he himself had been present during the Frazier polygraph examination. Because that's what he told the Warren Commssion under oath in 1964. 









and this from Lewis:






O'TOOLE: There was one detail I wanted to check with you. According to the Jim Bishop book- which admittedly isn't any kind of authority- when you gave the polygraph to tis guy there were 5 officers standing either in the room or in the doorway.
LEWIS: Uh-huh. Everyone stands in the room when they're giving the test.
O'TOOLE: That's what- that's what I thought. That's where i'm not certain.
LEWIS: Remember that while we were doing the test, specifically- we were standing. Everybody was standing in the room while we're giving the test.

Utter bullshit!!!!!

Fritz may not have believed in them, but would he use it as a tool of intimidation? Of course he would! The thing would not have to be administered correctly - just go through the motions.

Yes Greg I believe it is all utter bullshit.

The misremembering and the changes of their stories don't ring true.

11.30pm til 12.20am for the poly test is nonsense.

I don't believe for 1 minute the test took place. The question for me is what did they talk about with Frazier for approximately 4 hours alone in a room, all the while Linnie Mae and the good Pastor were down stairs.


A sack - or something much more interesting, like who Frazier stood next to during the assassination.

The sack was in the bag, pardon the pun. Why detain someone for so long over an issue about the sack... really.

at 11.30pm or there abouts they had their man, Oswald was charged.

And while we're on this subject what about the re-written affidavit for Linnie Mae....its claimed she was down stairs and didn't come up to the room where Frazier was

Nothing about this rings true ...nothing

A file exists in the National Archives and generated with the Identifying number 836101 titled Buell Wesley Frazier's Polygraph.
There is a restriction on this file.


Privacy?

National Security?


[url=https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley buell frazier]https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley%20buell%20frazier[/url]
 
 
 


Restricted - Possibly
Specific Access Restriction: John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act
Note: Some materials may have been withdrawn for reasons of personal privacy or national security.
(Emphasis Mine)

Mick Purdy wrote:A file exists in the National Archives and generated with the Identifying number 836101 titled Buell Wesley Frazier's Polygraph.
There is a restriction on this file.


Privacy?

National Security?


[url=https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley buell frazier]https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley%20buell%20frazier[/url]
 
 
 

Access Restriction(s):

Restricted - Possibly
Specific Access Restriction: John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act
Note: Some materials may have been withdrawn for reasons of personal privacy or national security.
(Emphasis Mine)

Someone should apply to get this. The wording about national security or privacy is standard. Note that it says under restriction "possibly". That would seem to indicate no one has ever requested it to test whether they will release it or not. It could be the polygraph results, or a memo about it by Lewis. It could also be just an internal memo within the ARRB discussing like we do, what the heel happened to this alleged test...

Going through Samoluk's file unit names, it looks like a fascinating collection.

I agree Greg. 

I think from memory some have tried without success.

I understand the wording concerning privacy and or National Security. IMO No matter what the document is about this restriction ordinarily should not be applied to a file titled Frazier, Buell Wesley Polygraph.

If it is nothing more than an internal memo then why a restriction?

Of course you might be right Greg, it may be nothing more than a memo or statement rearding the polygraph. But that makes the restriction more curious.

Frazier's story has never added up to me, and the more I learn the more I'm inclined to believe he was a witting participant in framing Lee Oswald.
Frazier's HSCA interview, at least what is decernible gives us an insight into how Frazier was more than just the car pool guy for Lee.

He procrastinated with the HSCA in the late 70's and stalled them constantly and eventually wanted the interviews to be held in his lawyers offices.

If memory serves me correctly the HSCA interviewee's were offered impunity in return for their statements.

For anyone believing Frazier has somehow pleaded Oswalds innocence over the years , you might wish to have a rethink.

Credit Bart: The Lone Gunman Podcast

https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-137-clark-on-ochelli-on-frazier

Listen: Timecode- 87.55 through to 88.20

When you're listening to this sound grab, remember there was never any curtain rods, never any large paper sack, and never any rifle in Oswald's possession. And we now know who was standing next to Frazier immediately after the shots rang out on the steps of the TSBD.





If you can spare the time listen to the podcast in full. Fascinating stuff!



Personally I think Frazier was way more involved that anyone has credited him with. That's just me.

Mick, just to clarify what I meant. The wording leads me to believe it may or may not be restricted. It's status has to be tested by someone requesting it, I don't think anyone has yet. I could be wrong, but my own best guess is that is is simply an internal ARRB memo.

Isn't it strange too, that so many of the alleged Frazier Polygraph participants by 1973 had all had a change of heart regarding whether the test actually took place.

Almost like someone had told them to forget what they'd done, or alternately told them to own up to what had actually happened. -Nothing!

greg parker wrote:Mick, just to clarify what I meant. The wording leads me to believe it may or may not be restricted. It's status has to be tested by someone requesting it, I don't think anyone has yet. I could be wrong, but my own best guess is that is is simply an internal ARRB memo.

I maybe wrong but I've read somewhere that it was requested and access was denied, I could have that wrong.

I'll have a listen to Clarkes podcast regarding this topic, its mentioned there aslo.

I'm almost certain it would be an internal ARRB document. They were the ones who generated the ID number for this file.

Its certainly curious though.

Well, I could be wrong too. I'm reading the "possibly" as being in relation to any restriction - as in it is "possibly" restricted and this may be because of [for example] national security or personal privacy. If this interpretation is correct, it would be there simply as a disclaimer.  If the ARRB actually KNEW it was restricted, it would also be able to specify why and not just list "possible" reasons.

If you recall who you think requested it previously, that'd be great. We can try and track back what happened in that instance. It may have been after the ARRB closed up shop?

Mick Purdy wrote:
I understand the wording concerning privacy and or National Security. IMO No matter what the document is about this restriction ordinarily should not be applied to a file titled Frazier, Buell Wesley Polygraph.

If it is nothing more than an internal memo then why a restriction?

Mick,

The way I am reading it, it's not the content that's restricted, it's the access. The Frazier polygraph file that's cited is part of a larger series of documents, some of which are not available online. It looks like they are paper documents in 13 file boxes that run 5 linear feet. I don't know if the Archives will copy that file for you, or if you have to visit the Archives in person and read it onsite.

"This series consists of correspondence, memorandums, notes, reports, and copies of documents created or maintained by Thomas Samoluk as Deputy Director of the Assassination Records Review Board. The series documents the efforts of the Board to oversee the implementation of the terms of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992."
https://research.archives.gov/id/645743

Function and Use: "This series was created by Thomas Samoluk as his work files."
It's possible that Samoluk put the access restriction on himself because they were his own work files.


The Frazier file is in Container# 8 of Containers 1 -13.

Steve Thomas