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Vinny
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frazier - Frazier And His Polygraph Test - Page 2 Empty Frazier And His Polygraph Test

Tue 14 Mar 2017, 10:45 pm
First topic message reminder :

This is from the book "The Day Kennedy Was Shot" by Jim Bishop.



The car was on Stemmons westbound, and there was relief in the back seat. Wesley Frazier had answered all the questions of the police as honestly as he could, and he and Linnie Mae were  homeward bound to Irving. The detectives sat in the front, and they were tired. Rose and Stovall had been working since 8 A.M., and it was becoming difficult to concentrate. The Reverend Campble knew that Frazier and Mrs. Randall had done their duty as good citizens, telling what they knew about Oswald, adding nothing.


The young man was happy to be free. He realized that just being friendly with a man like Oswald could lead to trouble. For a young man who had specialized in minding his own business, it was a frightening experience to be taken to headquarters, to be asked about curtain rods which might turn out to be a rifle, to be regarded as a buddy of Oswald’s when the facts pointed to the neighborly Linnie Mae helping Oswald to get a job at the Texas School Book Depository. Wesley Frazier had added free rides on the weekend.


The car was approaching the Irving Boulevard exit when headquarters called. Detective G. F. Rose picked up the microphone and acknowledged call letters. Headquarters asked that the car turn around at once and bring Wesley Frazier and his sister back to Dallas. The driver slowed and made a
U turn. No one asked why. Frazier and Linnie Mae couldn’t think of any questions which the police might have forgotten to ask them. There was always a vague danger that Lee Oswald might have implicated Frazier in some way, but no one wanted to dwell on that. Wesley couldn’t see how anyone could implicate him in anything, but Oswald was such a strange person—even more frightening now that no one discounted the notion that he might try to drag his benefactor down with him.


Rose said he was sorry. It was an order; he didn’t think it would amount to much. The car seemed to get back into the basement of City Hall much faster than it got out. The witnesses were taken up to the bedlam of the third floor, and detectives helped to pry a path for them. The two people sat with their Baptist minister. He, too, was trying to dissipate the gloom by reminding them that they had nothing to fear.


A detective came in, looked at Wesley Frazier, and said: “You got any objections to a polygraph test?” Another policeman explained that it was nothing; you sit in a chair with a blood pressure cuff on and they ask some questions. If you’re telling the truth, the blood pressure remains pretty steady; if you’re lying, it goes up. Frazier looked at his sister. He said he had nothing to hide.
“Good,” Rose said. “It won’t take long.” They led the boy up the stairs to the Identification Bureau. Captain Dowdy said that the man who conducts the polygraph tests was at home. They might have to wait. He phoned Detective R. D. Lewis. The policeman was willing to come in, but it would
take an hour to get back to headquarters. Dowdy told him to come in. A policeman was placed with Wesley Frazier. “Son,” a cop said, “I think you’re going to have to wait an hour. You might as well relax.” “What’s this test like?” Wesley Frazier said. Nothing to it, he was told. You just relax and tell the truth. He thought he already had told the truth. He couldn’t imagine anything further he could tell the police, but it was obvious that whoever wanted him back here wouldn’t want a truth test unless he was suspected of not telling it.





Lewis removed his coat and nodded politely to Wesley Frazier. Sometimes a polygraph operator wonders if his brother officers understand the procedure. They thought that all he had to do was to take a subject like Frazier, ask him questions, and watch a needle jump. Officer R. D. Lewis was a qualified operator. He called Adamcik into the other room to ask a few questions about the frightened boy. The more he knew about Wesley, the better the setup for the test. The office lights were turned up, an armchair was turned so that it faced a blank wall. Lewis arranged the blood pressure cuff for a human arm and looked at the needle tracings on a paper on his desk. Who was this kid? What was his name and what kind of material was Fritz interested in?


The kid’s name was Wesley Frazier. He lived less than a block away from Oswald’s wife. Frazier worked at the School Book Depository with Oswald and drove him home on weekends. Homicide was pretty sure that Oswald was the man they were looking for, but this Frazier kid was
something else. A rifle was found in his house. He could possibly be a party to the assassination. Hours ago he had been questioned in Robbery, but he seemed scared. The kid was halfway home when Fritz got this idea for a polygraph test.

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Mick_Purdy
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Thu 23 Mar 2017, 6:59 pm
Steve Thomas wrote:
Mick Purdy wrote:
I understand the wording concerning privacy and or National Security. IMO No matter what the document is about this restriction ordinarily should not be applied to a file titled Frazier, Buell Wesley Polygraph.

If it is nothing more than an internal memo then why a restriction?
Mick,

The way I am reading it, it's not the content that's restricted, it's the access. The Frazier polygraph file that's cited is part of a larger series of documents, some of which are not available online. It looks like they are paper documents in 13 file boxes that run 5 linear feet. I don't know if the Archives will copy that file for you, or if you have to visit the Archives in person and read it onsite.

"This series consists of correspondence, memorandums, notes, reports, and copies of documents created or maintained by Thomas Samoluk as Deputy Director of the Assassination Records Review Board. The series documents the efforts of the Board to oversee the implementation of the terms of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992."
https://research.archives.gov/id/645743

Function and Use: "This series was created by Thomas Samoluk as his work files."
It's possible that Samoluk put the access restriction on himself because they were his own work files.


The Frazier file is in Container# 8 of Containers 1 -13.

Steve Thomas
Thanks for the info Steve

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Mick_Purdy
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Fri 24 Mar 2017, 9:17 am
Thanks Steve.  Smile

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Thu 13 Apr 2017, 2:03 pm
Someone should put the latest voice stress Analysis recorder technology across all known Frazier voice recordings. I believe there are 2 machines of choice on the market currently which are used by law enforcement agencies today.

Assuming the technology is being used by law enforcement these days because it is reliable, then I see no harm in floating the idea.

It would be interesting, if nothing else.
Ed.Ledoux
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Sat 22 Apr 2017, 4:57 pm
Mick Purdy wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:
Mick Purdy wrote:
I understand the wording concerning privacy and or National Security. IMO No matter what the document is about this restriction ordinarily should not be applied to a file titled Frazier, Buell Wesley Polygraph.

If it is nothing more than an internal memo then why a restriction?
Mick,

The way I am reading it, it's not the content that's restricted, it's the access. The Frazier polygraph file that's cited is part of a larger series of documents, some of which are not available online. It looks like they are paper documents in 13 file boxes that run 5 linear feet. I don't know if the Archives will copy that file for you, or if you have to visit the Archives in person and read it onsite.

"This series consists of correspondence, memorandums, notes, reports, and copies of documents created or maintained by Thomas Samoluk as Deputy Director of the Assassination Records Review Board. The series documents the efforts of the Board to oversee the implementation of the terms of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992."
https://research.archives.gov/id/645743

Function and Use: "This series was created by Thomas Samoluk as his work files."
It's possible that Samoluk put the access restriction on himself because they were his own work files.


The Frazier file is in Container# 8 of Containers 1 -13.

Steve Thomas
Thanks for the info Steve


Has this been confirmed?
I can call.
Mick_Purdy
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Sat 22 Apr 2017, 5:05 pm
Ed. Ledoux wrote:
Mick Purdy wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:
Mick Purdy wrote:
I understand the wording concerning privacy and or National Security. IMO No matter what the document is about this restriction ordinarily should not be applied to a file titled Frazier, Buell Wesley Polygraph.

If it is nothing more than an internal memo then why a restriction?
Mick,

The way I am reading it, it's not the content that's restricted, it's the access. The Frazier polygraph file that's cited is part of a larger series of documents, some of which are not available online. It looks like they are paper documents in 13 file boxes that run 5 linear feet. I don't know if the Archives will copy that file for you, or if you have to visit the Archives in person and read it onsite.

"This series consists of correspondence, memorandums, notes, reports, and copies of documents created or maintained by Thomas Samoluk as Deputy Director of the Assassination Records Review Board. The series documents the efforts of the Board to oversee the implementation of the terms of the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992."
https://research.archives.gov/id/645743

Function and Use: "This series was created by Thomas Samoluk as his work files."
It's possible that Samoluk put the access restriction on himself because they were his own work files.


The Frazier file is in Container# 8 of Containers 1 -13.

Steve Thomas
Thanks for the info Steve


Has this been confirmed?
I can call.
Ed,

I have applied to have the file released. I am waiting to hear back.

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Ed.Ledoux
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Sat 22 Apr 2017, 6:22 pm
Good show Mick!

Cheers,Ed
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Vinny
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Sun 23 Apr 2017, 11:43 pm
Hope you will be successful,Mick.

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Sun 26 Apr 2020, 9:29 am
frazier - Frazier And His Polygraph Test - Page 2 Arrb_p10

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Sun 25 Sep 2022, 1:30 pm
greg_parker wrote:Fritz may not have believed in them, but would he use it as a tool of intimidation? Of course he would! The thing would not have to be administered correctly - just go through the motions.


https://innocenceproject.org/polygraph-tests-contribute-to-false-confessions-in-chicago/ wrote:But in the cases in which Chicago murder suspects went on to be cleared — some after spending years locked up — police polygraph examiners were accused of making up a confession, using “trickery” to get an admission and telling a suspect he failed a polygraph that an outside expert would later deem too poorly administered to determine its result. In five of the six cases, suspects were taken to [polygraph examiner Robert] Bartik. Suspects said they were drawn in by the promise of the polygraph — which they believed was a scientific test that would prove their protestations of innocence were true. Instead, they allege in court documents and interviews, Bartik obtained confessions from them by berating them, threatening them and lying to them.
More on it here https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2013-03-10-ct-met-polygraph-fox-rivera-gauger-20130310-story.html

In Frazier's case, I believe what happened was similar. He had a choice: cooperate in nailing Oswald, or get charged as an accessory.  The polygraph was just the tool to help get that agreement. 

I am fully aware of the usual voices and their usual objections: if he was cooporating in a frame of Oswald, why not just say the bag was big enough to fit the rifle? 

The simple fact is that all Frazier and Randle had to do was say it was a long sack - which they did, even though the guestimate of length was too short for the authorities.  Imperfect witnesses tend to come across as  more credible than witnesses whose words seem a bit too daming, a bit too obviously matching what the police want. 

It was said that the polygraph was largely about the sack and that it was produced during the polygraph. What if Frazier insisted initially that Lee only had a lnormal lunch sack abd that he carried it between hus legs on the ride?

But by the end of the polygraph and the threats and the lies, he had agreed to say that the sack was long - a cmpromise length between the actual size of the lunch sack and the sack now in evidence, and that he was the one with a lunch sack carried between his legs.

Frazier may have instinctively known not to mention seeing Lee on the steps ( that is if he did see him), but even if he did mention it, he would soon be convinced not to mention it again. 

If Chicago police were this corrupt in the use polygraphs in the 1990s, image just how more corrupt and terrifying Dallas police were in 1963. 

No wonder the polygraph disappeared and Lewis eventually disavowed any memory of doing it.


Last edited by greg_parker on Mon 26 Sep 2022, 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Sun 25 Sep 2022, 8:49 pm
From Frazier's book.

When we pulled back into the Dallas Police headquarters on Harwood Street, Linnie and I were taken back upstairs, and I had my fingerprints taken. I also
posed for the one photo nobody wants to take. Linnie and I were separated and gave sworn statements about Lee. Then, I was informed Captain Fritz had decided he wanted me to take a polygraph test.

I went to the ID Bureau, where I was given the test by Detective R. D. Lewis. I didn’t know what to expect, and I was quite scared. I knew I was telling the
truth, but I didn’t know how they were going to interpret that. When they reviewed the results, it showed conclusively I was telling the truth, and we were
released for the final time that evening to go home.

While doing my research for this book, I learned there is no record of my polygraph examination. Believe what you will, but I took it, and I passed. If I
hadn’t, there would have been no way in hell they would have ever let me out of their sight again.

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Sun 25 Sep 2022, 8:55 pm
We still have you in our sights BWF 😉

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Mon 26 Sep 2022, 10:02 am
frazier - Frazier And His Polygraph Test - Page 2 Image_14
Take a good look at this frame from the Darnell footage Buell Frazier. Have a real hard look - you've ID'd yourself in this pic. Who is the man standing to your right? Look real close! Be honest. No strangers were at the TSBD that day - all except one who was an elderly gent wanting to use the bathroom. Why did Marina Oswald/Porter  ID that figure next to you as her late husband - without hesitation! I say you know exactly who that person is - I say you have kept that your secret for near on 60 years...That's why you were harassed by the Police Friday afternoon into the very late evening...You saw Lee Oswald and knew he had an alibi -possibly why you were threatened with the Polygraph too.

It's Time Mr. Frazier - do it for the 60th.

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Mon 26 Sep 2022, 11:42 am
Buel Frazier from his book wrote:While doing my research for this book, I learned there is no record of my polygraph examination. Believe what you will, but I took it, and I passed. If I
hadn’t, there would have been no way in hell they would have ever let me out of their sight again.

This assumes that anyone reading the book will think that the police were honest and the use of polygraph was to determine whether someone is lying or not, through science.

But that was not the case. They did not strap him to a polygraph with the intention of letting him go if he told the truth. They strapped him to a polygraph to extract an agreement from him by way of threats, lies and promises.

The fact that at least one cop in attendance has been quoted in a book as saying that Buell "passed with flying colors", tells you all you need to know. The only way anyone passes a corruptly used polygraph test is by accepting some sort of deal. 

So yes Buell, I will believe "what I will" - based on documented cases of how corrupt police misue the polygraph. You never passed any valid polygraph test. The only thing you passed was agreeing to the terms of your release.

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Vinny
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Mon 26 Sep 2022, 7:58 pm
Frazier is inviting questions on Facebook. Perhaps you could your question above to him there.

frazier - Frazier And His Polygraph Test - Page 2 Scree218

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Tue 27 Sep 2022, 6:43 pm
https://jfk.boards.net/thread/33/buell-wesley-frazier-hsca-tape

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Wed 28 Sep 2022, 4:29 am
Why is Tom Sorensen not providing a full and complete transcript instead of this opinionated drivel FFS
This is no good whatsoever.

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