Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan

Mick Purdy

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
  
From the HSCA interview of Shields
 

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

 
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
 
An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.

Terry Martin

Very interesting, Mick.

I can hardly wait to see what others respond but the entire official scenario suddenly becomes just another fairy tale, another creation of the WC fiction creative writing squad. Every portion of their case simply stinks to high heaven.

Thanks for the laugh. This thing is pathetic but funny as hell. Frazier did not even drive Oswald to work! And that certainly couldn't have been Oswald on the steps ot the TSBD. What we are witnessing is the complete dismantling of the WC facade.    About fucking time!

Very well done. It takes an exceptional mind to see through the mists of illusion. And we are blessed with a large number of those at this forum.

Now, the REAL question is why did Oswald have to be framed for the crime? But I suppose we will get to that all in good time.

Your exposition has certainly got me thinking.

Colin Crow

I have thought for some time that the package story was a concoction developed by Randle and Frazier (maybe the stepfather) in response to the predicament Buell realized he was in after leaving the TSBD. The bag removed from the TSBD by Montgomery was constructed by someone in the DPD to cover the (broken) wooden strip from the SN window. It was later used as "evidence" in response to the LMR revelation around 3pm to the cops in Irving. It was nothing more than a convenient prop.

Colin Crow

Terry,
those responsible for the assassination did not require Oswald to be framed. Merely the pro Cuban Oswald involvement would be sufficient, ie the MC. It was the FBI/WH and later the WC who decided to go with the lone nut scenario. Kennedy's death to trigger an invasion of Cuba, Russians would be neutered because of LHO's previous defection to the USSR. Their support of Cuba in such an explosive environment would be seen as support for the assassination.

Greg Parker

Colin,

the stepfather? Interesting thought. All we know about him his that he was a violent drunk who Beull avoided at all times when they all lived in Huntsville.  The hospital visit on such a day does give pause. Also back in those days (here at least) hospitals had hard and visiting hours which were rigidly applied...yet he appears to have been there several hours, unless I'm mistaken...

Terry Martin

Was he actually "visiting" all that time or was a lot of the duration spent in the hospital coffee shop/cafeteria hiding-out from the cops and Feds?

Paul Francisco Paso

I'd never considered this before, Mick, so thanks for bringing it up. Do you still believe it was Frazier who gave Oswald a lift to Irving Thursday afternoon after work?

Colin Crow

The supposed "conversations" about the package between Oswald and Frazier appear bogus to me. So too the LMR questioning of her brother on the Thursday night about Oswald etc.
i believe Frazier heard of Oswald some time on his way to Irving or after he just arrived. Crapped his pants immediately and sought advice from his older sister. She likely told him to visit Randle in hospital. This bought some time for the story to evolved about a "package" containing curtain rods that would hopefully put Buell in the clear. I do not believe LMR saw any package that mornings. Her arrival, by car, at the Paines' to talk to the cops was done to help get her brother off any hook he might be in.
At that time, a long bag became an item of interest. Perhaps one that was constructed inside the TSBD to transport the. 36” wooden sill strip from the SN would suffice.

Mick Purdy

Paul

I'm not sure about Frazier and that Thursday arvo lift, we really only have as far as I can see, Randle and BWF telling us that Frazier brought Lee home on Thursday. Of course there's others who see Lee at Irving on Thurs arvo/evening but its Randle and Frazier who place him in BWF's car at that time.

Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. About what time of night was it?
Mrs. RANDLE. About 5:20, I believe, 5:15 or 5:25 something like that.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the grocery store.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Wesley about the fact that he had brought Lee home on this night? *****************
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir.
 
More importantly, IMO is that Randle states she did not talk with Wes about bringing Lee home on the Thursday night

Stan Dane wrote:Terry Martin

Very interesting, Mick.

I can hardly wait to see what others respond but the entire official scenario suddenly becomes just another fairy tale, another creation of the WC fiction creative writing squad. Every portion of their case simply stinks to high heaven.

Thanks for the laugh. This thing is pathetic but funny as hell. Frazier did not even drive Oswald to work! And that certainly couldn't have been Oswald on the steps ot the TSBD. What we are witnessing is the complete dismantling of the WC facade.    About fucking time!

Very well done. It takes an exceptional mind to see through the mists of illusion. And we are blessed with a large number of those at this forum.

Now, the REAL question is why did Oswald have to be framed for the crime? But I suppose we will get to that all in good time.

Your exposition has certainly got me thinking.

Mick Purdy

Thanks Terry,

The "why" indeed.
Why did Frazier and Randle lie about Oswald trudging over to their house with a package just long enough so as it could have been a rifle, and IMO lie about taking him to work with that package.

Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow

I have thought for some time that the package story was a concoction developed by Randle and Frazier (maybe the stepfather) in response to the predicament Buell realized he was in after leaving the TSBD. The bag removed from the TSBD by Montgomery was constructed by someone in the DPD to cover the (broken) wooden strip from the SN window. It was later used as "evidence" in response to the LMR revelation around 3pm to the cops in Irving. It was nothing more than a convenient prop.

Mick Purdy

Colin
The stepfather is very interesting and IMO needs some deeper investigation. 
And the extraordinary meeting of the minds at 3.00pm onwards at 2515 W. Fifth St Irving. The vipers nest.

Terry Martin

The problem, of course, is that neither LMR or BWF made the bag long enough for a rifle. WTF is that all about? They allow that LHO brought a bag to work that morning that was not long enough to have carried the rifle and it becomes the mainstay of the WC to prove that's what Oswald was carrying (as stupid as that sounds). Just like the 2nd floor encounter, it seems crafted to lend no credence to either side of the story. Just some BS to debate for the next thousand years, I suppose.

And as I found in another case, neither side of the argument is correct... the answer is something entirely different.

So, I figure either BWF was the one who brought "the package" into the TSBD and pushed the blame onto LHO or he was pressured for an entirely different reason to tell the story he told.

Things that don't make sense are usually that way because of missing data. BWF going to visit the step-father with who he did not get along with speaks volumes... so far, though, it seems to be in a language I don't understand.

Keep going, though. I love what this thread is digging up!! Maybe we will catch a deeper glimpse into the Vipers' Nest.

Mick Purdy

Terry
If I'm right on the main points here, and that's certainly open for discussion, I think you're spot on.
I believe the bag/sack was invented to incriminate Lee, and my theory includes BWF taking the throwdown MC into the TSBD.
I also believe that the story of driving Lee to work was an invention by Frazier to cover his own tracks on that morning
Now, in my mind, BWF could never say he saw a package that morning resembling a paper sack long enough to contain a rifle, not in a thousand years, without being charged with being an accomplice.
As it was, near as I can tell, he was almost  charged anyway.  I believe it was decided to go with a story about curtain rods and some brown paper bag/sack. 
I'm more and more convinced now that BWF, Linnie Mae and her husband Bill/Willie Randle are upto their eyeballs in this

Mick Purdy

For me it's all about the language used to describe the sack.
It's not about details such as how long it was, or how wide, or what color or even what shape.
IMO, it's all about the language used to create the imagery.  
A sack which was too large to contain Lee's lunch.
Language which created an illusion. 
"he carried it parallel",
"he had it cupped in his right hand"
'it almost touched the ground"
IMO these are examples of the language used to incriminate Oswald. The bag never needed to be 4 feet long.

Colin Crow

Are we really expected to believe that Frazier went straight from the TSBD to visit his abusive stepfather without first contacting Linnie May? Of course he would have.........the question is, why does he avoid that in recalling the days events? I believe that was the genesis of the package story. LMR saw no package......probably didn't even see Oswald that morning. It was a story developed to reduce suspicion from Buell. The wooden strip from the SN is the key. It was removed, was about 36", and likely broke during removal. The nail hole was 9” from each end.....a likely break point. We are left with something 27” in length.......coincidence? That is what is in the bag Montgomery removed from the TSBD. Later the bag became a more important prop than the strip......it was deep sixed.

Mick Purdy

Lets take a look at Randle's version of events on Friday morning.
 
Mr. BALL. Did you see Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, I did.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I saw him as he crossed the street and come across my driveway to where Wesley had his car parked by the carport.
Mr. BALL. He walked over to your house, did he?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I saw him as he started crossing the street. Where he come from then I couldn't say.
Mr. BALL. You don't know where he went from that?
Mrs. RANDLE. Where he went?
Mr. BALL. Did you see him go to the car?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What did he do?
Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway.
Mr. BALL. He put the package in the car.
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I don't know if he put it on the seat or on the floor but I just know he put it in the back.
Mr. BALL. How was Lee dressed that morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. He had on a white T-shirt, I just saw him from the waist up, I didn't pay any attention to his pants or anything, when he was going with the package. I was more interested in that.
 
Senator COOPER. When he placed the package in there do you remember whether he used one hand or two?
Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked.
 
Did Randle really see Oswald through that window approaching the house, moving across the driveway over to Wes's car?

Stan Dane wrote:Colin Crow

Are we really expected to believe that Frazier went straight from the TSBD to visit his abusive stepfather without first contacting Linnie May? Of course he would have.........the question is, why does he avoid that in recalling the days events? I believe that was the genesis of the package story. LMR saw no package......probably didn't even see Oswald that morning. It was a story developed to reduce suspicion from Buell. The wooden strip from the SN is the key. It was removed, was about 36", and likely broke during removal. The nail hole was 9” from each end.....a likely break point. We are left with something 27” in length.......coincidence? That is what is in the bag Montgomery removed from the TSBD. Later the bag became a more important prop than the strip......it was deep sixed.

Mick Purdy

Colin

I absolutely believe that BWF's whole story of the sack and the drive into the TSBD with Oswald as his passenger, is a creation to divert attention away from himself. I firmly believe he took the throwdown MC into work that morning possibly a lot earlier than 8.00am, maybe around the same time as Jack Dougherty started work some time around 7.00

Greg Parker

Colin, I've never heard the claims about the wooden strip before. Where are you getting that from? And why did they want it?

Mick Purdy

It strikes me as odd too that Randle is never asked where she was standing at the time of seeing Oswald from the kitchen, now I'm willing to concede that may have been assumed, but it's strange that she was never asked the question. 

When coupled with Frazier's WC account of where his sister was in the kitchen it becomes even more ambiguous.
"I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
If Randle was really standing at the window, then she avoided mentioning this close up view of Oswald.
Are we really to believe that someone actually saw Oswald looking in through that kitchen window with Randle standing right at the window, if this were true woudn't Randle herself  have answered  her mothers enquiry of, "who's that"
The fact is Frazier says Randle said nothing.
Mr. BALL - Now, did your sister say anything as you were having breakfast?
Mr. FRAZIER - No; she didn't say anything to me at all.
Mr. BALL - She didn't say anything to you either about Oswald or did she?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; say, she didn't say, you know, when I looked up and saw him I knew who it was.
Mr. BALL - You saw him?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

Colin, I've never heard the claims about the wooden strip before. Where are you getting that from? And why did they want it?

Terry Martin

I've been wondering about that as well. I vaguely recall the n00b posting something about it at the old forum - though his posts were a bit too rambling to keep my attention long - but I think it was something about that as well.

I have tried to find it but damned if I want to wade through all that stuff again. It did not become immediately apparent.

Yeah, I know... I am weak...

Mick Purdy

Was Frazier at breakfast at 7.15am as he claimed.
Or was he elsewhere.
we have this strange answer from Randle's WC testimony:
 
Mr. BALL. The next morning did you get breakfast for Wesley, you, and your mother?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; mother and my children.

Paul Francisco Paso

Tony Fratini has done a lot of work on the strip over at Stinky's. Tony is one of the best posters there. Smart as a tack.

Mick Purdy

Paul

I'm not sure about Frazier and that Thursday arvo lift, we really only have as far as I can see, Randle and BWF telling us that Frazier brought Lee home on Thursday. Of course there's others who see Lee at Irving on Thurs arvo/evening but its Randle and Frazier who place him in BWF's car at that time.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. About what time of night was it?
Mrs. RANDLE. About 5:20, I believe, 5:15 or 5:25 something like that.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the grocery store.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Wesley about the fact that he had brought Lee home on this night? *****************
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir.
 
More importantly, IMO is that Randle states she did not talk with Wes about bringing Lee home on the Thursday night

Paul Francisco Paso

Cheers, Mick. I might have to re-read Marina's and Ruth's testimonies again tom see what it might reveal about Oswald's trip to Irving. You're right. Its vital to framing him.