Prayer Man

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Original Prayer Man thread at the Education Forum
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20354-oswald-leaving-tsbd/

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G'day,
I have to say I find it oh so mildly amusing reading some of the comments, thoughts and rants associated on other forums regarding Prayer Man / Oswald on the front steps. It's sad really, watching people who have spent a lifetime married to an idea or a theory, only to witness that idea or theory shattering into a thousand pieces and not accepting the inevitable singular conclusion which is staring them in the face. To Greg Parker, Sean Murphy and all the other amazing researchers following the path of truth in this case I tips me Lid.

Mick

If Lance is a lawyer, simply distribute this posting to any future prospective clients and I think he'll be looking for a new career.

Agreed Terry...Hope he and the office secretary enjoy it.
A sure fire addition to his CV.
He thinks he's a scientist too
Cheers, Ed

He's avoided the evidence, must be a mob lawyer.



"In almost every area of woo-woo, my positions have evolved and sometimes changed dramatically in one direction or another as I’ve become better informed and my critical-thinking skills have improved (largely due to 37 years of practicing law but also to fairly serious studies in epistemology).  I can distinguish between nonsense on both sides and solid arguments on both sides.  Had this not occurred, I guarantee I’d still be a gee-whiz conspiracy theorist insofar as the JFK assassination is concerned.  Not just a conspiracy theorist but a True Believer.

You folks would do yourselves a great favor if you became better acquainted with (1) other areas where intense debate prevails, (2) the mistakes that True Believers make in all such areas (because they all make the same mistakes in reasoning and the handling of evidence), and (3) what it means to think critically and arrive at beliefs that are epistemologically sound.

You believe – most of you anyway – that you are doing serious research and thinking critically.  But you aren’t.  You simply aren’t.  You are flailing in all directions as True Believers do in every area of woo-woo (and indeed even in more scholarly areas of intense debate) as they attempt to preserve and defend the house of cards they have constructed.  You’re stuck on the True Believer treadmill, which I’ve characterized here as the Conspiracy Game (but doesn’t always have to involve a conspiracy – militant New Atheists and wild-eyed Christian fundamentalists do essentially the same things).

Maybe you enjoy the treadmill.  Maybe it’s just a hobby or exercise for your brain or an opportunity for fellowship.  But don’t kid yourselves that you’re moving toward historical truth, because you simply aren’t.  As your mom perhaps used to say, “You need to get out more.”
"
And I think Lance just made himself the stupidest person on ED.

Cheers,
ED

He's a pseudo intellectual, or in other words, an outright bullshitter.

He'll post for as long as people feed him. PM does not need the approval of an ex-lawyer who gets visits from his dead dog.....or a Yeti sniffer.....or Brian.

Lance is a slightly more mentally agile version of Brian.

Stan Dane wrote:Lance is a slightly more mentally agile version of Brian.

You think he's left home?

I think he retired to Florida and straight into Evelyn's basement bordello.
...and is practicing woo woo with Brian and the selfie stick right now.
Maybe he'll find Brian's rings and watch up there along with a few more selfie sticks.

Ed. Ledoux wrote:"Its All About His Alibi"



Cheers, Ed

Nice mash up. It says it all. He had his alibi. It had to be killed. And so did he.

Nobody has been able to come up with a convincing alternative to Oswald as PM. Not even one plausible candidate.

Ed. Ledoux wrote:"Its All About His Alibi"



Cheers, Ed

Sorry Ed, but this is screaming out to be stolen.

No worries Greg.
Take it and make it spread like a California wildfire.
Cheers,
Ed

Modified for the masses



Cheers, Ed

Exactly Stan, and as so many here have pointed out - Oswald's alibi was never tested or investigated as it should have been as a matter of due process.

The Warren Commission owed Lee Oswald that much. He was an innocent man when he was murdered in the custody of the DPD. He had supplied an alibi, it's there in the record.

One of the orthodox JFK beliefs is that Oswald was in the second floor lunchroom. That leads many to believe that he is not Prayer Man.

That's the nut to crack Vinny. We need to show people how even the most intelligent among them were duped into believing that their holy grail was to figure out ways for the 2FE to have happened yet still keep LHO away from being the assassin. The fact is, it's far easier to believe that it never happened than to believe it did. Maybe that's the problem. Just too easy of an answer after all those years of struggle to simply let it go, even with all the early evidence. They object to the breadth and depth of necessary lies and cover-up e.g. Truly, DPD, etc., yet folks are willing to attribute no end of the same to any number of the players outside of the TSBD. The TSBD was ground zero and so that's where the most intense effort to bend reality was focused. That was job 1, do or die. No end to the limits they would go, obviously.

Seems to be an emotional decision not to have wasted all these years combined with the perception that it's just too far to go to think that everyone was played like that.

Even the first gen researchers bought into the lunchroom myth. Many thought that it exonerates Oswald. I think Greg was the first researcher to question it unlike many others who blindly accepted it.

Jake Sykes wrote:That's the nut to crack Vinny. We need to show people how even the most intelligent among them were duped into believing that their holy grail was to figure out ways for the 2FE to have happened yet still keep LHO away from being the assassin. The fact is, it's far easier to believe that it never happened than to believe it did. Maybe that's the problem. Just too easy of an answer after all those years of struggle to simply let it go, even with all the early evidence. They object to the breadth and depth of necessary lies and cover-up e.g. Truly, DPD, etc., yet folks are willing to attribute no end of the same to any number of the players outside of the TSBD. The TSBD was ground zero and so that's where the most intense effort to bend reality was focused. That was job 1, do or die. No end to the limits they would go, obviously.

Seems to be an emotional decision not to have wasted all these years combined with the perception that it's just too far to go to think that everyone was played like that.

This makes me think of Bill Kelly.
 
In August of 2013, Bill Kelly was my favorite JFK researcher, bar none. Bill started the Prayer Man thread at EDF by asking the question if this was a photo of Oswald leaving the TSBD:
 

 
Think about that for a moment. Bill wondered if this fuzzy image was Oswald. Why?

That was weeks before this image emerged:
 

 
If one held out the possibility that the old, fuzzy image above might be Oswald, wouldn't one be jumping up and down when one saw the second, vastly more clear image?
 
Those of us here at ROKC did.
 
I think Bill did too—or he was in the beginning stages of doing so—when he came up with his theory of how Oswald could have been standing there as PM

Bill Kelly then put forth a scenario that incorporates Prayer Man being a TSBD employee—possibly Oswald—while preserving the Second Floor lunchroom encounter with Oswald:
 
1. Prayer Man checks out the commotion on the street, standing back against the glass wall, watching Baker run past him through the door, Truly behind him.
2. They then proceed to the back elevator and take the stairs, while Oswald—whether Prayer Man or not—is on the First Floor, near the door, where Arnold last saw him
3. Oswald/Prayer Man takes the front steps to the Second Floor offices.
4. Oswald walks through the office, and into the Second Floor Lunchroom vestibule where he passes the window of the closed door that Baker sees him through. Since Truly had been ahead of Baker and didn't see Oswald go through the door as he should have, he continued around the corner and then began ascending the steps to the Third Floor. (Truly later said - testified that he didn't know that Baker had seen Oswald through the window of the door until a few days later, and didn't recognize the significance of that fact at the time.)
5.After confronting Oswald—the cool and calm, not-out-of-breath or hyper assassin who buys a coke—then walks back the way he entered through the office where he encounters Mrs. Reid who sees the full bottle of coke in his right hand and they exchange garbled words, while Oswald proceeds down the steps to the front door, where he then directs a reporter to the telephone.
6. Having just seen the President killed and running a hundred yards to find a phone, this reporter is excited and out-of-breath. This begs the question of why Oswald wasn't similarly out-of-breath if he had killed the president and ran across the Sixth Floor and down four flights of steps to meet Baker and Truly with such a cool and calm attitude. Mrs. Reid also described Oswald as cool and calm—definitely not in a hurry.

From Prayer Man: Out of the Shadows and Into the Light, page 68

 
The point here was that—while Bill was very intrigued by the notion PM was Oswald—he was fixated on shoehorning PM into the second floor lunchroom encounter, because, with him, the second floor hookup was a self-evident axiom or postulate. When Sean systematically dismantled all of Bill's objections and arguments (all laid out in the PM book), Bill slithered away. That the stunning fact that the newer, more clear images of PM resembling Oswald had no effect on him any longer told me a lot about him.
 
He even had the gall to reach out to me saying that if I sent him a book, he'd review it. I promptly sent him one.
 
:: crickets ::
 
Hundreds of years ago, Copernicus formulated a mathematical model to prove that earth was not at the center of the universe. Years later, Galileo published findings describing his telescope observations in support of this, empirical observations that anyone with sight could see. But in the 1600s, many were still not ready to look through the telescope themselves. Heliocentrism contradicted holy scripture, but with the faithful, holy scripture trumped what was clearly evident. Galileo was found guilty of heresy and thrown in the hoosegow for the remainder of his life.
 
The second floor lunchroom encounter is holy scripture for most of the mainstream JFK research community today.
 
Some faith, however, is toxic.

And since we know that the 2nd floor encounter was nothing more than a charade it seems clear at least to my mind that the placement of Oswald inside that building on the second floor in a tiny unoccupied room along with the other players involved in the sighting of him in there was an extremely well constructed plan forged in the days and weeks after the 22nd to eliminate the possibility that Oswald could have been out on the steps as he'd claimed.

Think about that, a cop and a white collar worker the Superintendent of the TSBD no less were the so called eye witnesses to Oswald in that tiny lonely lunchroom. A masterstroke? Who would dare challenge a DPD police officer or the well respected boss Roy Truly?

Nobody of course. 

In my opinion the 2nd floor encounter fabrication did exactly what it was supposed to achieve. This was what the DPD Homicide and Robbery Bureau with John Will Fritz at the helm did best. They set about to relocate Oswald to eliminate his alibi. This is something they'd done to suspects hundreds of times before. It quashed any idea that Oswald could have been out front a moment or two after the shots.

The Hosty notes prove Oswald had claimed an alibi. Period! 
In my opinion this is why the FBI at 6.00pm Friday evening had the Altgens 6 enlarged and then had the photograph taken to Lovelady to confirm it was he who had been standing in the doorway of the TSBD and not Oswald. Think about that for a moment.


Oswald's alibi would never be tested. There's very good reasons why.

Spot on with all of it Mick and very well said. Now had there been a trial, and some of the good people of Dallas who were outside the TSBD that day might sit in open court, sworn to truth, and earnest in their belief that justice was being served, might very well have testified to the fact that they saw the defendant on the steps that day. Instead, they saw the 'defendant' shot stone cold dead. Convicted in the press. That was a very clear message. Did they see something? Their statements said they said they didn't, even if that wasn't actually what they did say. Another very clear message. Don't play with power folks. Go home. Stay there. Enjoy your families.

Jake Sykes wrote:Spot on with all of it Mick and very well said. Now had there been a trial, and some of the good people of Dallas who were outside the TSBD that day might sit in open court, sworn to truth, and earnest in their belief that justice was being served, might very well have testified to the fact that they saw the defendant on the steps that day. Instead, they saw the 'defendant' shot stone cold dead. Convicted in the press. That was a very clear message. Did they see something? Their statements said they said they didn't, even if that wasn't actually what they did say. Another very clear message. Don't play with power folks. Go home. Stay there. Enjoy your families.

That's it in a nutshell Jake. Imagine. 

Witnesses gripped with fear. 
Imagine for a second that you had seen Oswald on those steps, or had observed him on the first floor a moment or two before the shots or caught a glimpse of the man they would accuse of the Presidents murder seated in the first floor lunchroom just prior to the motorcade driving passed the TSBD. 

It's easy to understand why witnesses remained silent about the truth. They were scared out of their minds to say anything else other than what the authorities wanted to hear.

I think for those who might have been watching the telly on the Sunday morning- oh say at about 11.20am, most likely were convinced at that point more than ever before to keep their mouths shut.

As with Copernicus, we have much corroborating evidence  that places Oswald down in front, not on the second floor, including a solid alibi. As with Galileo, we see the obvious. We see a man standing there, a man who superficially resembles Oswald. As with the Church, our clear observations and evidence conflict with official Warren Commission dogma. As such, we are ignored, ridiculed, even condemned by the powers that be. 
 
So what do we do?
 
Hold fast and wait for the rest of the world to see the obvious. Just like people eventually learned that the earth revolves around the sun, they will learn that Lee Oswald was down in front during the assassination. Once that breakthrough is achieved, other big questions can be pursed and answered.
 
It may not happen in our lifetimes, but it will happen.

Amen Stan. And FM.