Jimbo Baggins finally finds the Harvey & Lee Smoking Gun!

That's right. He has found a document that gives it all away. Why else would he state in the The Oswald Exhumation thread that "In what appears to have been a test by the plotters to see if one Oswald could pass for the other under close scrutiny by a trained interviewer, Texas Employment Commission employee Laura Kittrell met the two Oswalds in October 1963..."

I mean, this just showcases the utter brilliance of the H & L plot.

How?

I'll let Jimbo explain first in his own words.

According to Mr. Fonzi, Ms. Kittrell felt the second Oswald she met “looked the same… the same general outline and coloring and build, but there was something so different in his bearing….”

Okay. So there were noticeable differences. But what were they?

1. The second Oswald was a Teamster.
2. The second one was "slouchy" whereas the real Lee Oswald had a "military bearing" according to those who knew him and indeed as Kittrell herself noted "he always looked neat as a pin, very military and this fellow wasn't"
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10766&relPageId=58
3. The second person was very loud while the real Oswald was not.
4. As she learned later, the second fellow's appearance was when the real Oswald was working at the TSBD.
5. This second person had come from California. 

---------------

In sum... the plotters sent the second Oswald in to be interviewed by a professional interviewer to see how well he could pass for the real Oswald. They did this by ensuring that his style of dress, his posture, his background and the volume of his speech were all just about diametrically opposite to the real Oswald. That's right. They were attempting to fool a professional by sending someone in that was the opposite of the person you want them to believe he is! Does it get any more diabolically ingenious than that?

But nonetheless, the plotters went ahead with the plan because Kittrell didn't blow the whistle... 

Too funny for words. Thanks for the laughs Jimbo. Keep 'em coming!

Good point, Greg! It seems to be barrel-scraping time at H&L HQ.

She failed to notice the missing tooth and lack of ear lobes. Maybe the sloping shoulders threw her...

steely dan wrote:She failed to notice the missing tooth and lack of ear lobes. Maybe the sloping shoulders threw her...

How could Mr Slouchy possibly have sloping shoulders?

Well Greg, some say sloping shoulders were the most stand out attribute...noticeable even when he performed a handstand. I just follow the evidence...

I've just finishing reading Swinging Sandys attempt at paraphrasing Greg's argument regarding the " missing tooth"
The distortions, omissions and flat out misrepresentations were utterly fucking despicable.
They're starting thread after thread...swamping the fucking place with their fundamentalist dross.
Swinging Sandy now resembles a limp wristed 13 inch hatted post lobotomy version of Robert Mitchums character in Cape Fear.
A creepy.morally bankrupt evangelist for a thoroughly debunked disreputable cult.
Barto attempted t add some logic and some actual evidence that wasn't covered with the pawmarks of Armstrong's chupacabra nor the dried crusts of the Swinging Cowboys drool.
I know i may be piling it on a little but the more i see the more Baggins and his bumbling lieutenant disgust me.
The hypocrisy and the intellectual dishonesty is beyond comprehension.
The rely on the 13 inch headites inbuilt propensity for believing the wildest most outre conspiratorial narrative.
Its not just a case of " if you hear hoofbeats assume unicorns"..the H and L crew have out Sanibelised even the most preposterous Sanibelisms..
" If you hear hoofbeats assume pink polka dotted Serbo Croat speaking sexually ambiguous Sanibel unicorns"
It makes me so fucking angry..
YES of course Oswald was impersonated but their seemingly pathological need t link every fucking impersonation t some mind bogglingly improbable double doppelganger scheme threatens t marginalise everyone even remotely associated with serious assassination research.
Of course the 13 inch headites will respond the language and the so called satire and humorous content hardly qualifies as serious research.
I don't want t speak for my fellow ROKCers but here there's a strict demarcation between satire and research.
The fucking brain dead dross the doppelganger crew pass of as research on the other hand IS a joke.
A very unfunny joke.
What Swinging Sandy did was symptomatic of their cowardice and their hypocrisy.
After Don Jeffries and Jimbo Baggins himself Swinging Sandy may well be the most insufferable unimaginative intellectually deficient asshole ever t don a 13 inch hat in anger.
He wouldn't fucking dare debate Greg on a level field without that sniveling lickspittle Jeffries skulking in the shadows..
He hasn't the balls or the brains.
If Swinging Sandy has an IQ of 150+ then John Butler must be Leonardo da fucking Vinci reborn..
Armstrong have mercy on all our souls and all our chupacabras too..especially the one that vanished in 1985..disappearing headfirst down Stevie Gaals purple flared corduroys..

What Swinging Sandy did was symptomatic of their cowardice and their hypocrisy.

He actually argued with me over there that in order to throw a ball from a baseball outfield to home, you'd have to throw the ball like 100 ft in the air to do so. I told him I had thrown a ball numerous times from that distance and never had to throw it at an arc that high. I even posted a video that shows an actual ball game happening and the ball was thrown no more than 25 ft in the air.

He holds an extremely high regard for his opinions. I'd love to just meet him face to face to size him up and see if he walks around eyes darting and with a spastic tic.

We must now turn our attention to fake MO' third breast as discovered by J Butler. 
I think she's wearing a baggy cardigan...

There's no malice behind what I say...as Ricky Gervais says " It's just a fucking joke"
For all i know Hargroves, Butler and Larsen may well be, and no doubt they probably are, fundamentally decent people who just want t know the truth.
It was just the years and years  and years of reading them gloating and taunting that riled me and pissed me off.Attempting t smear and disparage people i respect. Dismissing them with unbelievably close minded smugness " You don't understand the evidence" or labelling them as paid disinformationists.
Reading Jim DiEugenios( a fine researcher who i did and indeed still do have a great deal of respect for) anthology " The Assassinations" several years ago, initially i found the H and L concept intriguing. Superficially at least it seemed t make a lot of sense and the sheer volume of apparently supportive evidence was impressive.
Very impressive in fact.
But looking closer with ( hopefully) an honest unbiased open mind i began t detect huge problems.
The massaging of evidence, putting hearsay into alleged witnesses mouthes then twisting it- Dorothy Marcum being the most egregious example. The failure t disclose the rest of Myrtle Evan's testimony.." but of course it was Margie", the failure even t mention the exhumation results, Jack Whites nondisclosure of his prior relationship with a key witness and then his attempt t fudge the issue..etc etc..
Then i began reading the forums..the H and L advocates seemed curiously indifferent t honest enquiries..preferring hagiography and genuflection.
Their inability t accept error.
All genuine researchers shouldn't be afraid t examine their own beliefs with the same rigour they employ when examining the beliefs of others.
The unsettling cult like mentality that seemed t accompany H and L..the sneeringly derisive references t " disbelievers"
No one has the monopoly over truth all honest seekers should be in a permanent state of becoming..ever willing t embrace new ideas.
Before i joined ROKC I was horribly closed minded and closer t the conventional conspiratorial narrative than I'd like t admit.
All facts should be challenged equally and all those that don't stand up t scrutiny should be discarded.
My own thinking on the case is ever evolving...right now I'm somewhere between Larry Hancock ROKC and Cliff Varnell.
IMHO it was a military style ambush designed t look like a commie conspiracy. Carried out by a small fiercely dedicated closely bonded team..who perhaps themselves were doublecrossed by their erstwhile benefactors high up in the politico- military power structure.
People get too hung up on acronyms...CIA FBI MI...the alphabet soup has long been a chosen aperitif t accompany the conspiracy gumbo.
Forget the names on the office doors..it's the people inside the offices that matter.
Prayerman, the destruction of the 2FLRE, the discovery of Oswalds true alibi, T3 back wound the clothing evidence...these are the unimpeachable facts that expose the 2 intersecting conspiracies- the conspiracy t frakillJFK and the conspiracy t frame Oswald.
Operations of this scale would be ruthlessly compartmentalized.
One of the most ridiculous anachronisms mixed up in the whole ridiculous Juddufki fantasy is Her Lee telling his ravishing Mesallina cum Mata Hari that they were involved in a plot t murder a foreign head of state...at the very height of the Cold War? Fuck off..anyone who swallows that truly does belong with Ralph Cinque and the Loveladyified Oswald brigade...
Armstrong save us all from squeaky voiced HGH huffing chiropractors cum snake oil salesmen.
Treat triumph and disaster as the imposters that they are...it's not fair t gloat over the crumbling remains of Baggins Meat and Two Veg Bistro as the whole ridiculous H and L fantasy implodes before our eyes...
But it'll be funny t watch ole Jimbo B scurrying around trying t plug the leaks of his sinking ship..maybe if he asks nicely our gasmaked chum from Sanibel will oblige by digging up some of the corpses he has buried behind the old family motel.
It would be deliciously ironic for the Good Ship Doppelganger t sink with the holes in its rotting timbers plugged by exhumed digits..

Treat triumph and disaster as the imposters that they are...it's not fair t gloat over the crumbling remains of Baggins Meat and Two Veg Bistro as the whole ridiculous H and L fantasy implodes before our eyes...

Wise words. Although there is no real sign of them conceding the implosion that everyone else sees. In truth, most people in their situation need an easy out so they make the exit saving some face. Something along the lines of "well guys, I can understand how this all got going. All those reported sightings,  on top of photos of him pumped up after boot camp compared to his wasted-away look in Minsk and on return. But it looks like we now have alternative, rational explanations of all the anomalies, so it may be time to fold the tent and move on to more productive areas of the case. It wasn't a total waste, after all. Mr Armstrong did find a lot of useful information now publicly available." 
 

A doppelganger appeared outside my window wearing a gas mask

 I hate it when that happens.

I'm afraid the situation is hopeless. Despite showing some signs of being reasonable ("I will believe Ron's dentist relative. I will also contact a dentist"), Jimbo has instead retreated into full-blown bible-thumping dogma. The Dodgy Brothers, Inc (AKA Swinging Sandy the Mormon Cowboy & The John Butler Trio)  are following suit, singing 4 part harmony (Sandy and the triple personalities of John Butler) while tap dancing in a vat of secret doppleganging sauce and juggling all 27 volumes + the Holy Book.

Greg...you know how much i respect you, your research and what you're trying t achieve here at ROKC
But I'm afraid I'm going t have t draw the line in the atomised Los Alamos type sand of Sanibel Causeway...
For the sake of my own sanity and self respect I'm not putting on my ACME Bill Miller Autograph Sasquatch posing pouch( with 2 retractable sporran like pockets for the adventurous Sasquatch hunting nudist) polishing Great Uncle Fritzs SS dagger and hacking my way through the dark bushy undergrowth of John Butler's damaged psyche...to describe the multiple personalities lurking there...playing strip Sonic the Hedgehog with the heads of embalmed doppelgangers...
The depths of the John Butler trios shattered psyche would make the old Indian burial ground behind the old Doyle motel look like Xmas morning in some lovely Disneyland of the soul..
Doppelgangers with gas masks are a very real problem.
In fact a little Trine Day pterodactyl told me that Juddufki intends t include a " How t survive the blight of gasmasked doppelgangers" booklet ...available in a bundle with Ee and Leee for the reasonable price of $250..plus $25 Bradenton grifters tax

greg parker wrote:I'm afraid the situation is hopeless. Despite showing some signs of being reasonable ("I will believe Ron's dentist relative. I will also contact a dentist"), Jimbo has instead retreated into full-blown bible-thumping dogma. The Dodgy Brothers, Inc (AKA Swinging Sandy the Mormon Cowboy & The John Butler Trio)  are following suit, singing 4 part harmony (Sandy and the triple personalities of John Butler) while tap dancing in a vat of secret doppleganging sauce and juggling all 27 volumes + the Holy Book.

I've been reading about the Soviet illegal programme today, they would utilise the identity of a deceased person t infiltrate a Soviet national( or native sympathizer) into the target country( US UK Canada Australia W Germany etc) . These were long term penetrations without diplomatic protection and they could spend literally decades burrowing into the host country.
Reading about this is suddenly struck me how absurd the central premise of H and L really is.
Why in Armstrong's name would you need a native Russian/ Hungarian t pose as a disaffected AMERICAN. Think about it..
An American could learn t speak Russian just as well. Indeed a native born American would be under less suspicion of speaking Russian.
The whole scenario is inherently nonsensical. If Harvey was meant t infiltrate the Soviet Union as an American equivalent of a Soviet illegal then it would make sense.
A native born Soviet Russian could fit in far easier. With the language, accent etc and would have a better chance of knowing the local quirks. The little things that would give an outsider away t a perceptive local.
T spend 10 fucking years shuttling a doppelganger and a doppelganger mom round the country just makes no sense.
The defector was meant t b an American, right? Disaffected by the Capitalist Imperialist Begemoth and eager t sample the Worker's Paradise.
Why would you need a native RussianHungarian. or whoever Jimbo Baggins is claiming little ole Harvey is this week t pose as a native born American?
It's just nonsense. A young American, say a young Marine with an aptitude for languages would be a much better candidate for a young American!!!
What i think happened was Armstrong simply didn't understand what he was looking at. Or looking for.
He was like all these pre Champollion scholars and explorers who thought hieroglyphs were just pictures.
Armstrong Baggins et al just saw the pretty fucking pictures. They never bothered t learn the language. Or ask someone who does.
I'd bet my last Sanibel shekel if they took the whole H and L story, magic teeth, magic scars, incredible shrinking LEE's fake non smiling moms and all t a proper intelligence analyst theyd b able t decipher them properly.
Sure there were mistakes and beguiling anomalies.
But in this world of 5 senses and 3 dimensions( John Butler's damaged psyche aside) mistakes and beguiling anomalies do not magic doppelgangers make.

alex wilson wrote:I've been reading about the Soviet illegal programme today, they would utilise the identity of a deceased person t infiltrate a Soviet national( or native sympathizer) into the target country( US UK Canada Australia W Germany etc) . These were long term penetrations without diplomatic protection and they could spend literally decades burrowing into the host country.
Reading about this is suddenly struck me how absurd the central premise of H and L really is.
Why in Armstrong's name would you need a native Russian/ Hungarian t pose as a disaffected AMERICAN. Think about it..
An American could learn t speak Russian just as well. Indeed a native born American would be under less suspicion of speaking Russian.
The whole scenario is inherently nonsensical. If Harvey was meant t infiltrate the Soviet Union as an American equivalent of a Soviet illegal then it would make sense.
A native born Soviet Russian could fit in far easier. With the language, accent etc and would have a better chance of knowing the local quirks. The little things that would give an outsider away t a perceptive local.
T spend 10 fucking years shuttling a doppelganger and a doppelganger mom round the country just makes no sense.
The defector was meant t b an American, right? Disaffected by the Capitalist Imperialist Begemoth and eager t sample the Worker's Paradise.
Why would you need a native RussianHungarian. or whoever Jimbo Baggins is claiming little ole Harvey is this week t pose as a native born American?
It's just nonsense. A young American, say a young Marine with an aptitude for languages would be a much better candidate for a young American!!!
What i think happened was Armstrong simply didn't understand what he was looking at. Or looking for.
He was like all these pre Champollion scholars and explorers who thought hieroglyphs were just pictures.
Armstrong Baggins et al just saw the pretty fucking pictures. They never bothered t learn the language. Or ask someone who does.
I'd bet my last Sanibel shekel if they took the whole H and L story, magic teeth, magic scars, incredible shrinking LEE's fake non smiling moms and all t a proper intelligence analyst theyd b able t decipher them properly.
Sure there were mistakes and beguiling anomalies.
But in this world of 5 senses and 3 dimensions( John Butler's damaged psyche aside) mistakes and beguiling anomalies do not magic doppelgangers make.

Sometimes things are just so obvious they sail right by. You're right. You don't get an east European who speaks perfect Russian to pose as a disaffected American who - as luck would have it - speaks perfect Russian!

I would add that if this fantasy was real, the real Oswald would have met with a terrible and fatal accident early on - saves all that messy merging of some records, destruction of others and the awful prospect of them accidentally crossing paths in front of witnesses. Come to think of it, the tall, smiling, good looking Marguerite would have needed a very early demise for the same reasons.

The real historical Lee Harvey Oswald was the perfect candidate. Which I guess is the reason why they chose him.
His linguistic aptitude, retentive memory, his background, ability t follow relatively complicated instructions, self reliance...all the little quirks that would have made him so useful.
The quirks you've pretty much convinced me were symptoms of Aspergers.
The tin foil hat brigade walk around looking for bunnies and doppelgangers cavorting in the clouds.
Those who spend all their time with their head's in the clouds( or in certain cases with them crammed up somewhere where the John Butler don't shine) often miss what's right in front of them.
I remember reading something you wrote Greg, probably on the 13 inch head forum; if this was a proper investigation tax experts, military analysts, experts in reading public school records etc would have been consulted.
That they weren't raises a huge red flag. That theyd prefer t rely on the work of bumbling self appointed experts( i regard the Swinging Cowboy as little more than a vacuous unthinking buffoon at this point) raised an even bigger one( no Larry Trotter for the last fucking time I'm not talking about that time you and Stevie Gaal were flung out of the " How t b well hung- the Sanibel Amateur Flag wavers Society")
The reason they didn't ask was very simple. They knew the answers wouldn't b the answers they wanted t hear.
Balancing an elaborate 10 year double doppelganger project on the back of a few misinterpreted documents, manipulated testimony and down right fucking hucksterism is just despicable.
Baggins is almost very nearly in the Juddufki class of con artists.
The only difference is his tits are bigger and her beard is far bushier.
It's a fact that up until the last time she was hit by a CIA white van and they bolted for cover in the undergrowth outside the abandoned mental institution outside Bradenton Juddufki had an entire family of Tasmanian tigers living in her beard.
Don't believe me? Ask Don Jeffries...he was tracking them for fucking years...