The Researcher Extraordinaire

The Researcher Extraordinaire .

From Palamara's book "Honest Answers"

Another "Gem" from the book.

Thanks for posting the funny pages Vinny.
Ed

Piss poor work by Vince Palamara.
If he thinks he can treat this as his Bugliosi period then he is mistaken....I will remind him to his dying days of the utter shit he has produced above. 


You are off the firm son!

Thanks for your post Vinny, as I was not aware of Vince's quote about Sarah Stanton. I don't have Vince's book, so I'm not clear about several things, namely who is saying what. The use of quotation marks in this post are an utter, unhelpful mess. (I'm not saying it's your mess...it may be Vince's mess, or Doyle's mess.)

1. Is that whole post is a quote from Vince's book, or only the part in the quotes?

2. Is Vince calling Doyle a "researcher extraordinaire" or are you?! Let me be clear and toot my own horn - I was the one who tracked down Wanda, and Sarah's entire family, doing tireless, sleepless research on Ancestry.com, Geneaology bank, Newspapers.com, Facebook, Fast People Search etc... - not Doyle. It wasn't easy. I spent weeks and weeks - months doing it. Doyle then used the info, (I had unfortunately posted a clue about her identity on Sarah's findagrave) to call her before I could call or write her, after I got 8 hours of sleep! 

3. Right after Oswald's quote "no, i'm going back in the break room" it says (without quotes):

That "break room" was the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald at 12:25. This is proof that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the shots as he told Capt. Fritz. 

 Why would it be proof that the "break room" Oswald was referring to was the 2nd floor breakroom and not the 1st floor breakroom/Domino Room? This is a big supposition - who is it by? You? Vince?, Doyle? Sarah Stanton via Wanda? 

4. In neither Stanton's FBI Report or Statement does it mention what time she left to come down to watch the motorcade. At best, in the report it says "about 12:30...she was standing on the steps" when she heard the shots. So we have no proof of what time this is that she saw Oswald on the 2nd floor steps/landing. 

5. Then there's this sentence - again not in any quotes that I can find:

This is proof Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the shots, as he told Captain Fritz.

Is this a quote from Doyle? Vince? You? As we all know, Oswald never said any such thing. According to the Fritz notes, Oswald said he said he was "out front with Bill Shelley" (he did not say he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom). And according to  Hosty's 1st day handwritten interrogation notes (thank you, Malcolm & Bart!), Oswald said he "went out to watch P. Parade".

Linda,
You wrote " (he did not say he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom)".
Guess who else said that Oswald said he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom: Oliver Stone! Can you believe it? It was in an interview translated from a French magazine and posted on EF. I don't know where these people get their information from, but I have never seen where he asserted any such thing.

Jake_Sykes wrote:Linda,
You wrote " (he did not say he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom)".
Guess who else said that Oswald said he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom: Oliver Stone! Can you believe it? It was in an interview translated from a French magazine and posted on EF. I don't know where these people get their information from, but I have never seen where he asserted any such thing.

They all get to that with an idiotic reading of Fritz's notes.

"Claims 2nd floor coke when
officer came in."

It makes a mockery of the timeline. You have Oswald saying he went up, grabbed a coke, encountered Baker while doing so, then going to the domino room, having lunch, then going outside.

Does anyone really believe that is what Oswald said?



The key to understanding the notes is that he has inserted "when off came in."

Take that out and we get what really happened.

 First action: (Claims getting) 2nd floor coke.
 
Second action: To 1st floor.

Third action: Had lunch.

Fourth action.: Went outside (to watch p. parade).

Stone is at one end of the spectrum. Doyle at the other, with every nutter and crank and author and forum warrior in between. None of them will ever let go of their fantasies about Oswald being a cut-price 007 whose every move had spycraft and plotline significance. It suits them that the timeline is less than clear. It leaves room for their mental issues to conjure the Oswald they crave.

LindaGiovannaZambanini wrote:Thanks for your post Vinny, as I was not aware of Vince's quote about Sarah Stanton. I don't have Vince's book, so I'm not clear about several things, namely who is saying what. The use of quotation marks in this post are an utter, unhelpful mess. (I'm not saying it's your mess...it may be Vince's mess, or Doyle's mess.)

1. Is that whole post is a quote from Vince's book, or only the part in the quotes?

2. Is Vince calling Doyle a "researcher extraordinaire" or are you?! Let me be clear and toot my own horn - I was the one who tracked down Wanda, and Sarah's entire family, doing tireless, sleepless research on Ancestry.com, Geneaology bank, Newspapers.com, Facebook, Fast People Search etc... - not Doyle. It wasn't easy. I spent weeks and weeks - months doing it. Doyle then used the info, (I had unfortunately posted a clue about her identity on Sarah's findagrave) to call her before I could call or write her, after I got 8 hours of sleep! 

3. Right after Oswald's quote "no, i'm going back in the break room" it says (without quotes):

That "break room" was the 2nd floor lunch room where Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald at 12:25. This is proof that Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the shots as he told Capt. Fritz. 

 Why would it be proof that the "break room" Oswald was referring to was the 2nd floor breakroom and not the 1st floor breakroom/Domino Room? This is a big supposition - who is it by? You? Vince?, Doyle? Sarah Stanton via Wanda? 

4. In neither Stanton's FBI Report or Statement does it mention what time she left to come down to watch the motorcade. At best, in the report it says "about 12:30...she was standing on the steps" when she heard the shots. So we have no proof of what time this is that she saw Oswald on the 2nd floor steps/landing. 

5. Then there's this sentence - again not in any quotes that I can find:

This is proof Oswald was in the 2nd floor lunchroom during the shots, as he told Captain Fritz.

Is this a quote from Doyle? Vince? You? As we all know, Oswald never said any such thing. According to the Fritz notes, Oswald said he said he was "out front with Bill Shelley" (he did not say he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom). And according to  Hosty's 1st day handwritten interrogation notes (thank you, Malcolm & Bart!), Oswald said he "went out to watch P. Parade".

1. Is that whole post is a quote from Vince's book,


Hi Linda, I have not got the book either, but it looks to me like Vinny posted screenshots fro the book, so any issues with who said what are on Vince.

Over a period of time, it has become clear that ego plays a massive part in what Vince says. He became a Bugliosi fan for a while becase Bugliosi quoted him. 

Those passages that Vinny has posted show other things, to me at least, about Vince. But I'll keep those to myself because his ego alone brings him undone.

As for Doyle, you know he takes credit for finding Stanton? Or at least, I don't recall him ever giving you credit. Apologies to Brian if I'm wrong.

Vinny wrote:Another "Gem" from the book.

"window from the floor he worked on..."


FFS. He worked on the first floor. Excess stock was kept on floors 5 and 6. If he ran out of stock on the first floor, he could retrieve more from those floors. There was no guarantee he would be on those upper floors that day unless an insider rigged it so he had to go up.

The rest of it is just rank speculation, hardly even fit to post on Stinky MacRae's love nest, let alone worthy of including in a book. 

"A sniper could have...done dis, dat an' de udder ding".

A Venusian toad could have shot JFK with mini hollow-point Elvis's from his arse.

greg_parker wrote:

Jake_Sykes wrote:Linda,
You wrote " (he did not say he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom)".
Guess who else said that Oswald said he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom: Oliver Stone! Can you believe it? It was in an interview translated from a French magazine and posted on EF. I don't know where these people get their information from, but I have never seen where he asserted any such thing.

They all get to that with an idiotic reading of Fritz's notes.

"Claims 2nd floor coke when
officer came in."

It makes a mockery of the timeline. You have Oswald saying he went up, grabbed a coke, encountered Baker while doing so, then going to the domino room, having lunch, then going outside.

Does anyone really believe that is what Oswald said?



The key to understanding the notes is that he has inserted "when off came in."

Take that out and we get what really happened.

 First action: (Claims getting) 2nd floor coke.
 
Second action: To 1st floor.

Third action: Had lunch.

Fourth action.: Went outside (to watch p. parade).

Stone is at one end of the spectrum. Doyle at the other, with every nutter and crank and author and forum warrior in between. None of them will ever let go of their fantasies about Oswald being a cut-price 007 whose every move had spycraft and plotline significance. It suits them that the timeline is less than clear. It leaves room for their mental issues to conjure the Oswald they crave.

To say the same basic thing in a different way:

"Claims 2nd Floor Coke when off came in to 1st floor": He was drinking the Coke (that he claimed to have bought on the 2nd floor) when the officer came in to the 1st floor (vestibule).

"had lunch": He had already eaten his lunch by that time.

"out with Bill Shelley in front": He had been outside eating lunch with Bill Shelley in front (on the landing) before the officer came in to the 1st floor (vestibule).

To add to the above: The landing is where he had finished the lunch that he had started in the Domino Room before carrying lunch and Coke out to the vestibule. He then went on out to the landing in front to see what the commotion was all about and to finish the lunch. After the shots he reentered the vestibule carrying the Coke, which is where he was when the officer came in. This doesn't necessarily mean Baker. It could have been one of several officers.The focus on the Coke was all about sussing out any inconsistency in his narrative. Ultimately it was instead used as the device for placing him on a false 2nd floor timeline to support a false 6th floor narrative.

Agree that it is a mockery to believe Oswald first described a 2nd floor encounter and then went downstairs blah blah blah. That would mean when Fritz wrote his notes he had lost the plot due either to inebriation or senility.

Jake, you could be right. I always tended to disregard Fritz's notes because they did not make sense to me.

You point out a similar timeline problen in your reading - regarding when he ate his lunch. That problem is not there if you remove "when off. came in".

What has always bothered me the most is the notiom that he went out to check the "commotion".

This cannot be when he went out to watch the parade. He already knew the parade was on, so he already knew what the commotion was. 

But if I am right that he could not see anything much from that vantage point, and quickly went back in, he has no idea Kennedy has just been shot. He contemplates going back to work early and is seen by Campbell.

The people rushing in distressed and the growing noise outside over the next few minutes tells him that something else has happened. That's the commotion that draws him out that second time. But he is stopped by a cop and asked to "step aside" - presumably until they are set up to start vetting people to leave.

To me, Fritz's notes only cover up to when Oswald went out the first time.  But as I say, your rendering could work as well. Either way, it is a lot LOT closer to reality than the WC version. Or any other version.

I agree about the inconsistency of the notion of a commotion. I think your concept of it can easily be used to modify my narrative and make it fit as you describe it. He could still start his lunch in the Domino Room, walk out front, go back in, then back out to see about the commotion.

Hi Linda

 It is a screengrab from a page in Vince's book as Greg said. It was Vince who called Doyle a researcher extraordinaire. I remember your work on Stanton and how Doyle used your research to contact her family to conduct his train wreck of a interview. In fact I think it was discussed here on ROKC a few years ago.


Doyle is quite a shameless troll and Vince should be ashamed of himself for promoting his so called research.

I agree Greg the notes are not absolute but an summary of things said (or asked)

"When off."
I take this as 'off work'
This is him saying he goes about his normal lunch routines. Washing up to grabbing soda using phone reading paper....

"Came in."
Was this noting Lee was outside.
Parade was delayed of course, allows time to go back in.
Alternate is he 'came in' to the SFLR for the soda but is clunky not just in wording.
Jake has it, Lee is wandering about, and Greg is correct there is an effort to keep Lee inside by Fritz n his notes.

Highy likely Lee was popping in and out like a schizophrenic turkey timer before the shooting.

Who was at the will call counter to assist customers
It wasnt Shelley or anyone out on the steps.
It wasnt Troy West back at the wrapping table he doesnt leave anyway or the Janitor Eddie Piper
I say low man gets stuck watching the front...Lee.

Anyone ever mention watching the counter during lunch. Its one question I need to ask.
As a warehouseman and a Teamster who achieved seniority I should be more aware to ask basic employment questions like this during interviews. This one escaped me.
It just seems the boss Shelley is usually around and all employees hide in basements, upper floors or anywhere but at Will Call during lunch.
Thats been my experience... clock out quickly and hide or get stuck watching the front office while the boss picks up his dog from the vet during lunch...
The SFMs collection of signage was shown to Buell for his latest interview and has the Will Call Sign but no "hours"
Its not like it said "closed for lunch" or "help yourself from 12 to 12:45"
Hell it took decades to nail down the buildings plumbing and how many stories were able to exploit that. Details unknown are always used against us. Always. Every time. Debunking the implied or suggested is a full time occupation.
The storytellers are running out of places to hide.

Cheers
Ed

He is still quote proud that Vince mentioned his Prayer Won nonsense in his book, but is upset that Vince won't stick up for him at the EF.

That image is next to impossible to read. I had to download the image and then blow it up to read it. Just saying.

But I find it even more interesting is why not just humor folks, get out the film, look at it and make high-res scans of it and post it? I mean, yeah, it's work but shouldn't take that long to do. Yet, they continue to not be willing to do it.

Pay attention Brian.

NBC will laugh at Oliver Stone and Rob Wilson same as Im laughing at you Brian.
Sure just have Rob run over to their NBC vault and start ripping films for us.... of course why didnt we think of this... FFS I called him and asked if he had the films or copies etc .. Ixtalan was a bust.
They dont have original frames of the steps. Only what was used in the films is what they could acquire or license.
They licence the same garbage NBC offers from a 3/4" tape, and that aint no originals of Darnell /Wiegman.
My conversations with NBC UNIVERSAL CLIPS made one thing clear when they said THE POWERS THAT BE WILL NOT ALLOW ACCESS TO THAT FILM!
Whoa! Even with gifts, persistence and charm I was denied even the opportunity to fund a 4K scan for NBC of the Original. My generous offer to scan and preserve the film at my cost and using the vendor of their choice was denied.

At this point I would be grateful of anyone whom can buy beg borrow or steal the original.
Even Brian.

Oh by the way Brian, I licensed the film from NBC.
Same as Oliver Stone or Rob Wilson would through their company Ixtalan.
Not all is a loss.
I have 5k scan of Wiegman.
Though not first or second generation it made the images twice as clear. The folks on the steps and sidewalk pop. Prayer Man is Lee not a 300 pound grey haired lady. Please pay attention Brian ... youre wrong and have been proven so.

All available frames show LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
This matches his alibi that was hidden and suppressed.
Pay attention Brian.

If the TSBD sniper hid out on the roof the night before the assassination as asserted in the book excerpt in the first post, He would have needed the Umbrella Man’s umbrella since it rained all night. If he did borrow the Umbrella Man’s umbrella, how did he return the umbrella and get back to the 6th floor by 12:30 without being spotted?

What book is that excerpt from?

lanceman wrote:If the TSBD sniper hid out on the roof the night before the assassination as asserted in the book excerpt in the first post, He would have needed the Umbrella Man’s umbrella since it rained all night. If he did borrow the Umbrella Man’s umbrella, how did he return the umbrella and get back to the 6th floor by 12:30 without being spotted?

What book is that excerpt from?

The book is Honest Answers by Vincent Palamara.

JFK_Case wrote:That image is next to impossible to read. I had to download the image and then blow it up to read it. Just saying.

But I find it even more interesting is why not just humor folks, get out the film, look at it and make high-res scans of it and post it? I mean, yeah, it's work but shouldn't take that long to do. Yet, they continue to not be willing to do it.

 Off course they are not willing to do it. Because they have vested interested in not doing it. They do not want to rock the boat. Prayer Man being proved to be Oswald is very dangerous to the establishment.

My conversations with NBC UNIVERSAL CLIPS made one thing clear when they said THE POWERS THAT BE WILL NOT ALLOW ACCESS TO THAT FILM!

Looks like THE POWERS THAT BE are quite scared of what the film might show and its implications.

He refers to Speer as a researcher extraordinaire too.

Vinny wrote:

lanceman wrote:If the TSBD sniper hid out on the roof the night before the assassination as asserted in the book excerpt in the first post, He would have needed the Umbrella Man’s umbrella since it rained all night. If he did borrow the Umbrella Man’s umbrella, how did he return the umbrella and get back to the 6th floor by 12:30 without being spotted?

What book is that excerpt from?

The book is Honest Answers by Vincent Palamara.

This better be a joke....FFS