Lamar Waldron interview with new info from RFK aide on JFK’s autopsy

Sorry I can’t post a link because I’m new, but please see interview with Lamar Waldron dated 22 November 2021 on Thom Hartmann’s Youtube channel.

Waldron describes an interview he did with John Nolan (former RFK aide) who died 2 years ago.

Key points:
- JFK and RFK had put in place a contingency plan for any assassinations of US Government Officials and Diplomats, because of the toxic relationship with Cuba, and the JCS hawks were desperate for an excuse to invade Cuba and nuke Russia. The contingency plan was - whoever was assassinated, fly the body back to D.C. for a phoney autopsy, and put out a cover story to prevent the JCS and the public from demanding WW3.
- this is why JFK’s autopsy couldn’t happen in Texas.
- at Bethesda they did a quicky pre-autopsy for National Security. This is where the caskets were switched, they found another bullet in the casket from the back wound, and this is when the throat wound was enlarged (rooting around to find where the bullet went).
- RFK directed the real autopsy by telephone from another room in Bethesda, to make sure they didn’t find any gun shots from the front etc.

This all does give a much simpler Occam’s razor (pardon the pun) explanation for the botched autopsy, the massive cover-up, and why they quickly decided on the lone nut narrative.

Also mentioned is that Dave Powers told Waldron and Hartmann (back in the 90’s) that he saw 2 shots from the grassy knoll. Powers was in the follow-up limo so he had a good view.

Well worth the listen. Explains the initial patsy role for the Rusky supporter Oswald was to be associated with Castro's demise.

Thanks Colin.

Perspective.
This gives it in spades.

Question is were the cabal and Bobby going through with an innocent Russian Patsy as a fall guy knowing that's the Counter-Coup's mechanism.
Bobby et al are letting Lee take the rap and basically lets him be murdered rather than help Lee (secretly) with counsel, and apply pressure on Wade and Curry...(Bobby you know an innocent man is going to be hung yet let it continue!!??!!)
Hoover is following the plan by his actions.
He says that Lee is the one and stops looking, stops others from looking. Hoover should know this man is innocent and a real patsy.
Bobby follows the plan and covers up the autopsy materials, buries casket at sea in the Pacific Ocean Dumping grounds.
Boswell, Humes and Fink all follow their orders and the plan.
It's not a botched autopsy, it's a controlled autopsy.
Control the information.

Is this a solution to many problems we have with the case.
Yes.
Does it explain what Johnson, Trump and Biden were told and their actions concerning the documents redaction or sequestration... yes.

I explains a lot more than any one of us has time to go through ... thus anyone interested in the case should be familiar enough with these characters to understand the Cuban coup and counter coup.
If they understand this before looking at testimony or analyzing the evidence they will have a much greater perspective.

Mahalo!

Seems to wrap the whole thing up in a tidy cluster of extraneous loose ends that suddenly seem to tie together.

Now here's a movie that would blow JFK out of the water, if anyone uninitiated could ever keep up with the plot.

I remember something about Bobby burying the brain in the tomb if I'm remembering correctly. Fits.

Even a back-up patsy (or more) as Greg has said. That's why he would have free will to walk about on the landing during the shooting.

So many questions answered. Nobody in the JFKA industry will pay any attention to it.

Was going through Bart's archive and stumbled across these. Our friend John Thomas Masen seemed to be aware of a big event involving Cuba coming up. Many thanks to Barto and Malcolm!













Anyone have more info on Martinez from Florida?

Jake_Sykes wrote:Seems to wrap the whole thing up in a tidy cluster of extraneous loose ends that suddenly seem to tie together.

Now here's a movie that would blow JFK out of the water, if anyone uninitiated could ever keep up with the plot.

I remember something about Bobby burying the brain in the tomb if I'm remembering correctly. Fits.

Even a back-up patsy (or more) as Greg has said. That's why he would have free will to walk about on the landing during the shooting.

So many questions answered. Nobody in the JFKA industry will pay any attention to it.

All is needed for the "Oswald patsy" in the Castro removal is a link to the Hidel rifle. That's enough of a link to link to Russia via Lee the Commie defector. Just a link to Moscow is enough to deflect for long enough. In that narrative could be a team, no need for a loner, just a trace back to the USSR. Exp.aims the Mexico Oswald frantic for a Cuban visa then back to Russia. Also sending Marina back. All part of the ruse.

YW Colin, yes plenty on Masen....

So, if JFK or RFK were assassinated by agents of Castro, the Kennedy’s would want it covered up to prevent WW3?

I thought Jim DiEugenio pretty much demolished the Hartmann/Waldron theory.

3 calls from Cliff Carter from Johnson's office Friday evening to Henry Wade and possibly others from the Police department confirm that the Lone gunman narrative was well under way. They were ordered to charge Oswald with both counts of murder and more importantly that there be no talk of confederates. As Johnson admitted years later they were genuinely concerned the assassination may start a World war if it was claimed the killing had been part of a broader plot involving others.
I have no doubt that Oswald's goose was cooked from that moment on.

I watched the whole talk and enjoyed it, but if there was such a ”sure thing” plan in place to invade Cuba and depose Castro, why on earth was JFK initiating back channel talks to potentially resume diplomatic relations with Castro immediately before the scheduled invasion plan?

Pursuing a diplomatic approach is a sensible alternative to war which can have unpredictable outcomes. I think JFK wanted some politically positive resolution of the Cuban situation before the 1964 election. The Kennedy’s were pragmatic politicians, not saints.

I am doubtful of the whole concept of the idea of the motivation to assassinate JFK to generate a motive for invading Cuba for several reasons.

1. There is no evidence of the buildup of troops or logistics for such an operation planned to take place in a few weeks.

2. If the assassination were blamed on Castro, the Soviets would likely be considered co-conspirators. Given a potential conflict with the Soviets, dealing with Cuba would be a side-show that could wait.

3. Why would the mafia participate in an assassination of a president who was on board with an invasion of Cuba which could potentially give them back their casinos, hotels etc.?

4. It seems that most provocations to get the US into wars take place outside the continental US and away from prying eyes - the USS Maine (Cuba), Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), Tonkin Gulf (Vietnam) are a few examples. I think 9/11 was primarily about financial fraud and destruction of criminal evidence than getting us into a war, though the opportunity was not missed.

So, though I suspect Cuba had much more to do with the JFK assassination than Vietnam, I don’t buy the Hartmann/Waldron theory. I find it remarkable that we have economic and now military relations with Vietnam yet we still enforce an embargo against Cuba.You would think that Trump, of all people, would have wanted to open up Cuba for the hotel opportunities after his presidency. My suspicion is that, were Cuba to fall and their archives and secrets spill out, it would be very embarassing to the US government. But it could also be embarassing to the Cubans as well.

lanceman wrote:Pursuing a diplomatic approach is a sensible alternative to war which can have unpredictable outcomes. I think JFK wanted some politically positive resolution of the Cuban situation before the 1964 election. The Kennedy’s were pragmatic politicians, not saints.

I am doubtful of the whole concept of the idea of the motivation to assassinate JFK to generate a motive for invading Cuba for several reasons.

1. There is no evidence of the buildup of troops or logistics for such an operation planned to take place in a few weeks.

2. If the assassination were blamed on Castro, the Soviets would likely be considered co-conspirators. Given a potential conflict with the Soviets, dealing with Cuba would be a side-show that could wait.

3. Why would the mafia participate in an assassination of a president who was on board with an invasion of Cuba which could potentially give them back their casinos, hotels etc.?

4. It seems that most provocations to get the US into wars take place outside the continental US and away from prying eyes - the USS Maine (Cuba), Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), Tonkin Gulf (Vietnam) are a few examples. I think 9/11 was primarily about financial fraud and destruction of criminal evidence than getting us into a war, though the opportunity was not missed.

So, though I suspect Cuba had much more to do with the JFK assassination than Vietnam, I don’t buy the Hartmann/Waldron theory. I find it remarkable that we have economic and now military relations with Vietnam yet we still enforce an embargo against Cuba.You would think that Trump, of all people, would have wanted to open up Cuba for the hotel opportunities after his presidency. My suspicion is that, were Cuba to fall and their archives and secrets spill out, it would be very embarassing to the US government. But it could also be embarassing to the Cubans as well.

I agree with much of what you say here - though I may change my tune when I get a chance to watch the youtube. Based solely on the main points of the contingency plan as listed:

I assume that the plan was never written down anywhere and is itself an assumption, or comes from interviews (which are often notoriously biased to ward what the author is looking for).

On the matter of false flag provocations - the Northwoods plans did include attacks on US soil.  Kennedy explicitly rejected Northwoods.

My main objections on top of those outlined above - we have the Secret Service actively breaking the law in stealing the body in aid of this plan. The Secret Service hated the Kennedys. 

Hoover was on board the cover-up but gave no indication he knew what the hell was going on. He most likely was acting as he always - in a way that he felt best protected the Bureau and his position in it.

If the Kennedys were so concerned, given the perfect storm they saw brewing, they would have heeded the myriad warnings and cancelled the trip or at least ensured far better protection than what they got. For example, in Fort Worth, potential threats were identified, rounded up and kept under lock and key and until Kennedy departed. I know the argument has always been that they wanted to connect o the people and look strng yada yada... but given how worried they were - at least according to this thory - ten Jack went into the Lion's Den with a death wish. 

Also how does this connect to Oswald? If I were to guess, I would guess they used the putative connection to Marcello through Uncle Dutz or Ferrie?  Moreover, how did they get Roy Truly on board - as he provably was?

Why would a fake autopsy be essential UNLESS they knew there would be multiple shooters or the shots would come from a place other than claimed? Having plans dor a fake autsopy is indicitave of KNOWING EXACLY HOW THE PLOT WOULD GO DOWN. If they knew that much - again - why go to Dallas? Everyone plays up the political need - but would good is that if you know you are riding into an ambush?

There was a plan for another invasion - and troops were possibly massing offshore on other Carribean islands. In that regard, the most fascinating information for me is the stuff found by Ed on Masen.  But going beyond that seems to me, at the moment, to be a leap.

Here is a past thread that plays into Ed's Masen docs.
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t57-the-parkland-cuban-colonel-l-robert-castorr?highlight=parkland+cuban

Will watch it and when I get a chance and return for a backlip with pike. The only reason that could be be in the cards is that too many smart cookies here were impressed by it for it not to have something going for it. Making sense of the Big Picture stuff could be it. But can it handle the despised minutia or any Devils in the Detail?

I’m sure they go deeper in their books, but from what I got from the talk they are saying that Marcello, Trafficante et al. killed JFK because they found out about the Cuba plot and that part of the plot was that they would not be let back in to run their casinos under the new government, then took advantage of their contacts with Morales and low level CIA folk from the Castro assassination plots to execute the plan. Morales as the highest level government official involved seems iffy for the reasons outlined by Greg, but it doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to think that others may have found out about it, let it move forward and even facilitated the plan…if Hartmann/Waldron are correct. Also, swap the mafia “finding out” about the plot with a clandestine order from like minded leaders in the US Govt. and we’re right back to a CIA led coup.

I am watching the video as well as going over Jim DiEugenio’s critiques of their theories. Jim mentions JFK’s back channel diplomacy with Castro using, among others, journalist Lisa Howard. Curiously, when RFK ran for US senator from the state of New York in 1964, Lisa Howard supported RFK’s opponent Republican moderate but hardline cold-warrior Kenneth Keating who often criticized the Kennedy Cuba policies as too soft.

Were the back channel contacts a ruse that the Kennedy’s may or may not have been aware of? Did she learn something after the JFK assassination that changed her mind? Or was she just a flake?

“In September 1964, Howard helped form a political group called "Democrats for Keating"—a group of liberal Democrats that included Gore Vidal, who opposed Robert F. Kennedy's bid to become a U.S. senator representing the state of New York. ABC News warned her that her public partisan politics would lead to her dismissal. Howard nevertheless continued to work openly in support of Kennedy's Republican opponent, Kenneth Keating. In the fall of 1964, ABC cancelled her news show and fired Howard.”


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Howard_(reporter)

Simply I think this provides a plausible narrative for Oswald the dupe character. Not requiring knowledge by him of any plots and minimal manoeuvring as a Russian defector, once proCastro looney who could be associated with an assassination through the Hidel rifle. Who manoeuvred him and when are not so clear but it eventually sits with the small group of CIA/antiCastro/mafia types frequently tied to them "turn around" hit theory.

JFK_FNG wrote:I’m sure they go deeper in their books, but from what I got from the talk they are saying that Marcello, Trafficante et al. killed JFK because they found out about the Cuba plot and that part of the plot was that they would not be let back in to run their casinos under the new government, then took advantage of their contacts with Morales and low level CIA folk from the Castro assassination plots to execute the plan. Morales as the highest level government official involved seems iffy for the reasons outlined by Greg, but it doesn’t seem like much of a stretch to think that others may have found out about it, let it move forward and even facilitated the plan…if Hartmann/Waldron are correct. Also, swap the mafia “finding out” about the plot with a clandestine order from like minded leaders in the US Govt. and we’re right back to a CIA led coup.

Yes, this was central to their theory. Four anti Castro leaders were selected and none were to have connections to Mafia. The idea would be that they were to be specifically excluded. They got the word via a leak, felt double crossed after their previous involvement with CIA and now would have nothing to gain from Castro's overthrow.

Once Castro was out of the way, the mafia could easily worm their way back into control of the casinos and resorts just like they were able to do everywhere else they operated. It wouldn’t make sense for them to stop the coup/invasion which would be the big hurdle to overcome.

Jim DiEugenio has raised many questions about the Hartmann/Waldron thesis over a decade ago and his questions are as relevant today as they were then.

One question I have that hasn’t been addressed is, why would an invasion of Cuba as a response to a Cuban assassination of a US official be any more likely to risk WW3 than a US-sponsored assassination of Castro followed by a US invasion of Cuba at the invitation of the coup leaders?

I agree that the Kennedy family response to the assassination was peculiar. RFK supposedly had autopsy materials but there is no indication that they were used in a quiet effort to get at the truth. Later, RFK aid Walter Sheridan was hostile to the Garrison investigation which had to have the approval of RFK. I think the Kennedy family also had things they wanted covered up to protect the future political viability of the family as in the lawsuit against William Manchester.

Someone or some group faced an existential threat from JFK and needed him removed from power. They could not wait for the 1964 election or could not be certain he would lose the 1964 election.

One question I have that hasn’t been addressed is, why would an invasion of Cuba as a response to a Cuban assassination of a US official be any more likely to risk WW3 than a US-sponsored assassination of Castro followed by a US invasion of Cuba at the invitation of the coup leaders?

My understanding of the plan, and I could be wrong, was that the coup would be driven from within and supported by anti Castro exiles. A beefed up BoP with no observable direct US involvement. Whatever the plan the Oswald character involvement would initially push focus towards Russia. From memory Castro and Kruschev were not getting along so well around this time.

Why wouldn’t the plan to invade Cuba be a motivation for Castro to to assassinate Kennedy as a pre-emptive measure? The invasion was supposedly to be led by a force of (I thought I heard the number 10,000 mentioned) Cuban exiles. No doubt that the Cuban intelligence agency had more than a few infiltrators in this group. Castro probably knew more about the plan than most in the US government.

Could Castro’s extended visit to the USSR in January 1964 be of any significance?

The plans to whack Castro and BoP were developed by Nixon. I’m sure Castro was aware of the attempts on his life over the next four years. Castro and Russia fell out after the CMC when Castro demanded Kruschev launch on USA preemptively. From that point on Castro was cut out of the loop on dealings between USA and Russia. What perfect patsy to put in place than a recent Russian defector. Deflect long enough for the internal coup supported by external Cuban exile force to assist with the take over. No obvious US involvement and a hint of Soviet removal of the pesky Castro

Thanks Colin.
I think we could own that island any time we wanted. With no consequences.
That's just my belief.
Not like we don't own the best part.
Land that has one of our largest military bases and deep water inlet for military ship port as it's neighbor.
Nixon doesn't seem to be a guy sharing much with the Kennedy brother's. If anything he's the type to keep it from them and others in Jfks administration.
Could it be kept secret though... was the BOP kept secret till it happened.
I hear things like Bobby and Jack were not in the loop on the murder plots.
And conversely they were in a secret cabal to kill Castro.
Can the two things be true and independent of each other. Of course.
I also find it strange to have as a plan to divert attention away from any assassination by Castro or Russia and prevent WW3 by involving a defector to Russia and a Castro sympathizer. Really that's the patsy.
It's risky and how doesn't it snowball into Oswald was a Russian agent working for Castro. It's almost a given it will... wouldn’t a better plan be to pick some otherwise non nuclear threats to Patsy.

Appreciate your comments!
Cheers
Ed