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Amos Lee Euins

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Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 6:16 am

Without a doubt, Amos Euins is one of the most misunderstood witnesses to the President’s assassination. In his affidavit to the Dallas Sheriff’s Office, he allegedly claimed that the shooter in the TSBD was a white man. However, during his testimony, he denied this was the case.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=335899

From Euins’ testimony:
 
 
Mr. SPECTER.
All right. Let me ask you about a couple of specific things here, Amos.In the statement you say here that he was a white man. By reading the statement, does that refresh your memory as to whether he was a white man or not?

Mr. EUINS.
No, sir; I told the man that I could see a white spot on his head, but I didn't actually say it was a white man. I said I couldn't tell. But I saw a white spot in his head.

Mr. SPECTER.
Your best recollection at this moment is you still don't know whether he was a white man or a Negro? All you can say is that you saw a white spot on his head?

Mr. EUINS.
Yes, sir.

Mr. SPECTER.
Then, did you tell the people at the police station that he was a white man, or did they make a mistake when they wrote that down here?

Mr. EUINS.
They must have made a mistake, because I told them I could see a white spot on his head.
 
 
Euins also claimed that he couldn’t tell whether the shooter was a white or black man:
 
 
Mr. SPECTER.
Of what race was he [the shooter], Amos?

Mr. EUINS.
I couldn't tell, because these boxes were throwing a reflection, shaded.

Mr. SPECTER.
Could you tell whether he was a Negro gentleman or a white man?

Mr. EUINS.
No, sir.

Mr. SPECTER. Couldn't even tell that? But you have described that he had a bald—

Mr. EUINS.
Spot in his head. Yes, sir; I could see the bald spot in his head.
 
 
He also testified that he didn’t get a very good look at the shooter:
 
 
Mr. SPECTER.
Now, did you get a very good look at that man, Amos?

Mr. EUINS.
No, sir; I did not.
 
 
When Euins was interviewed by the FBI on November 29, 1963, he told them that he could not tell anything about the man. The report also says that he was standing on the North East corner of the Elm and Houston Street intersection. However, this is wrong, since he was actually standing near the South West corner.
 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10672&relPageId=13
 
 
In his December 14, 1963, interview with the FBI, Euins was quoted as saying the following:
 
“He said he was sure he [the shooter] was white, because his hand extended outside the window on the rifle.”
 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=340785
 
 
During his testimony, Euins claimed that he thought the FBI only interviewed him once, and that this was about four days following the assassination. However, the second FBI interview must be genuine since he was quoted as saying the shooter had a bald spot on his head; just as he testified before the Warren Commission.
 
As mentioned before, Euins denied the man was white during his testimony. But if there’s some reason why we should trust the FBI report over Euins’ testimony (which was in his own words), I would please like to know.
 
My question is: When did Euins ever claim he thought the shooter was a black/dark complected man?
 
As for the bald/white spot, I think it could simply have been a reflection of the sun off of the shooter’s head. Then again, I have my suspicions that Larry Jones of CUSA (who had a bald spot on top of his head) was quite possibly the TSBD shooter.


Last edited by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Guest on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 8:42 am

Euins told reporter James Underwood that the shooter was a colored man; Underwood's testimony is in the WC volumes. Also, Sgt. David Harkness recorded this data in his pocket notebook, but when he was about to display it during his testimony, Belin cut him off and changed the subject.

Euins was kept at the Sheriff's Office from 1:00 PM until 8:00 PM, all to produce a flimsy 8-line affidavit. Fritz visited Decker sometime between 5:00 PM and 6:00 PM.

His mother received several threatening phone calls shortly before he was due to testify. Amos was a very bright lad. He took the high road and middle ground, in my opinion, when he testified- not accusing the Sheriff's office of altering his story (of a black shooter) but saying they were mistaken. And refusing to commit to Arlen Specter's barrage of questions regarding whether the shooter was white or black, his clothing, etc.

His testimony should be read for the clues he lets out. For example, that the shooter paused to look down at the crowd. That he was suspended like a quail hunter in the brush, extending himself further over the boxes for a better shot. No professional marksman  (who would keep a rigid tripod-like position) would ever do that. There are more clues.

I taped Amos Euins' HSCA interview, but it hasn't been published because of the poor sound quality. Someday I will produce a transcript. The most interesting part of that one-hour interview is Euins describing attending the motorcade with a companion, who darted off at the first sound of shots. And Euins said he'd taken a camera with him, but lost it once the shooting started. He didn't explicitly say his companion took off with his camera, but there was little else to conclude.

The companion tale reminded me tellingly of what researcher Anthony Frank used to say at JFK Lancer, that Euins had a cocaine-addicted brother who worked for the CIA.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 9:03 am

Thanks, Richard. I will post something tomorrow if I find the time.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by beowulf on Sat 03 Aug 2013, 2:30 pm

Here's a thought, Rowland's testimony he saw "an elderly negro" (almost certainly Piper) on the 6th floor was countered with Williams apparently scripted testimony that HE had been on the 6th floor until just a few minutes before the shooting.
 
So perhaps Euin's testimony that he saw a black man on the 6th floor who was either bald or had white spots on his head was countered by Williams (again!), Norman and Jarman testimony that the 6th floor rifle fire shook loose white debris from the 5th floor ceilng which fell on them, no doubt creating white spots on their head.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sun 04 Aug 2013, 6:11 am

Richard Gilbride wrote:Richard, my comments are as follows.

Euins told reporter James Underwood that the shooter was a colored man; Underwood's testimony is in the WC volumes.

Yes, Underwood did testify that Euins’ claimed the shooter was a coloured man. In an interview linked to below, Underwood made this same claim (though he said that Euins’ saw him fire from about the fourth floor).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEwCyL3WTvc

Also, Sgt. David Harkness recorded this data in his pocket notebook, but when he was about to display it during his testimony, Belin cut him off and changed the subject.

Harkness also testified that Euins’ couldn’t tell whether or not he saw a rifle, and when asked by Belin if Euins said the shooter was white or black, Harkness responded by saying that he (Euins) couldn’t identify the shooter.
 
Mr Belin. 

By the way, did your witness ever say whether the person he saw at the window was a white man or a Negro?

Mr Harkness. 

He just told me, he just said he couldn’t identify him. That is what he told me.

 
If Harkness’s testimony was somehow altered, my question is going to be why wasn’t Underwood’s also altered? Also, if Harkness was being deceptive, why would he bring his notebook with information that Euins said the man with the rifle was coloured?

IMO, Euins probably saw Eddie Piper at the window just as Arnold Rowland did, but then he couldn’t tell what race the shooter was (as he said during his testimony), and had just assumed that the shooter was black per his observation of Piper at that window previously.

I hope you don’t think I am trying to belittle you Richard (as this is NOT my intention here), but it doesn’t make any sense to me that you would decide to frame Oswald for the Tippit murder and the President’s assassination, but then use a dark complected man to shoot the President from the 6th floor window.

I think that once you accept that the wallet bearing ID for Oswald and Hidell was found (or given to Kenneth Croy by Igor Vaganov) in the vicinity of the Tippit murder scene, then I honestly think that you should accept that the same man who shot the President also shot Tippit, and that this man looked like Oswald. The most logical candidate is, IMHO, Larry Crafard. Larry Jones is my second choice for the TSBD shooter. Furthermore, Arnold Rowland identified the man with the rifle as a white man, and both Ronald Fischer and Robert Edwards said the man waiting in the sniper’s nest window was a white man (I know they didn’t see a rifle, but I don’t think that matters).

That being said, I do believe there was a dark complected (Cuban) accomplice with the white shooter, per Ruby Henderson’s interview with the FBI. BTW, I think that Herminio Diaz Garcia is a good suspect for the dark complected accomplice.

Euins was kept at the Sheriff's Office from 1:00 PM until 8:00 PM, all to produce a flimsy 8-line affidavit. Fritz visited Decker sometime between 5:00 PM and 6:00 PM.

I think I know what you’re getting at. Why would they keep him there for so long? Again, I think that Euins saw Piper as did Rowland, and told Underwood, Harkness etc. that the shooter was a black man, and that the DPD and Sheriff’s department persuaded him to think and say otherwise.

His mother received several threatening phone calls shortly before he was due to testify. Amos was a very bright lad. He took the high road and middle ground, in my opinion, when he testified- not accusing the Sheriff's office of altering his story (of a black shooter) but saying they were mistaken. And refusing to commit to Arlen Specter's barrage of questions regarding whether the shooter was white or black, his clothing, etc.

Please see above.

His testimony should be read for the clues he lets out. For example, that the shooter paused to look down at the crowd. That he was suspended like a quail hunter in the brush, extending himself further over the boxes for a better shot. No professional marksman  (who would keep a rigid tripod-like position) would ever do that. There are more clues.

They could certainly be clues, Richard. On the other hand, he could simply have been a frightened 14 year old boy who witnessed the President’s assassination, and his mind may have been playing tricks with him (though I’m not saying he was a liar).

I taped Amos Euins' HSCA interview, but it hasn't been published because of the poor sound quality. Someday I will produce a transcript.

I look forward to reading the transcript.

The most interesting part of that one-hour interview is Euins describing attending the motorcade with a companion, who darted off at the first sound of shots. And Euins said he'd taken a camera with him, but lost it once the shooting started. He didn't explicitly say his companion took off with his camera, but there was little else to conclude.

I think that I might have read about the companion somewhere, but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder.

The companion tale reminded me tellingly of what researcher Anthony Frank used to say at JFK Lancer, that Euins had a cocaine-addicted brother who worked for the CIA.

I don’t think I’ve ever read about the addict brother who worked for the CIA. Very interesting information.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Guest on Sun 04 Aug 2013, 8:23 am

I thought for a long time that Rowland's "elderly Negro" was Bonnie Ray Williams, looking aged and wizened in the noonday sun, until Greg Parker's sterling vignette "Was Eddie Piper on the 6th Floor?" - available on p.12 of the JFK section of this website.

But my take on the bald spot/white spot is that Euins really saw a spot on a bald head.

I find a definite indication that Belin Intimidated Harkness at WCH VI p. 310:

BELIN: When did you make that notation?
HARKNESS: Immediately after the shooting.
BELIN: Is that your own record that you have kept in your possession since then?
HARKNESS: Yes, sir. I turned-
BELIN: You turned what?

Harkness claims to have sealed the rear at 12:36, but when Sorrels returned from Parkland circa 12:50, he entered by the rear and found it unguarded. Seems that Harkness was in a CYA mode in his testimony about that.

Harkness did give good information concerning "two long freights" being shook down for tramps and "some Secret Service agents" in the back of the TSBD. But I don't think he wanted to rock the boat as far as whether Euins saw a black shooter.

Harkness was adjacent to Underwood & Euins in front of the TSBD as Euins related his eyewitness account.

Euins affidavit: "...I could tell the gun was a rifle..."

WCH II p. 205: EUINS: "..Then he started looking down towards my way..."

p.207 
 SPECTER: Now, did you get a very good look at that man, Amos?
EUINS: No, sir, I did not.

Previous on 207
EUINS: All I got to see was the man with the spot on his head, because he had his head something like this.
SPECTER: Indicating his face down, looking down the rifle?
EUINS: Yes, sir; and I could see the spot on his head.

Euins was not a frightened 15-year-old, IMO, but became a man up on the stand to protect his threatened mom.

Piper's left profile shows a 2-inch dark brown age spot on his head.

10785767.sites.myregisteredsite.com/dc/user_files/16325.jpg (or type "Photographs of Eddie Piper into the JFK Lancer Search engine and click on Attachment #2 in the first post)

It's even more pronounced when looking at the photograph, which is in my hand, rather than the scan. The FBI camera light zeroed in just underneath this age spot, reducing its degree of darkness. But it's very pronounced, such as Rowland had described, that his head was "marked in some way". 

Recommended reading: the section "Piper & the Sniper's Nest" in "The Piper of Potemkin Village" in the Essays Section. 


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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 06 Aug 2013, 6:13 am

From Underwood’s testimony:
 
 
“He [Euins] was telling the motorcycle Officer he had seen a colored man lean out of the window upstairs and he had a rifle…..I went over and asked this boy if he had seen someone with a rifle and he said ‘Yes, sir’. I said, ‘Were they white or black’? He said, ‘It was a coloured man’. I said, ‘Are you sure it was a colored man?’ He said, ‘Yes, sir’…..”
 
As I mentioned previously, when Underwood was interviewed, he claimed that Euins said he had seen the man fire from about the fourth floor; and during his testimony, only mentioned that Euins had seen the man lean out of a window upstairs (no specification of it being the sixth floor). Harold Norman was on the fifth floor, and had leaned out of the window to look up. Underwood claimed that Bonnie Ray Williams had leaned out of the fifth floor window as well.
 
I’m fully aware that Norman testified that he couldn’t recall telling the FBI on November 26, 1963, that he had stuck his head out of the window. However, he is obviously a compromised witness since he testified/told the Secret Service later that he heard three shell casings hit the floor above him, when he never made any mention of this in his aforementioned interview with the FBI.
 
The December 14, 1963, FBI interview with Euins quotes him as saying:
 
“…..on the fifth floor where he had seen what he thought to be a metal rod, he noticed a rifle in the window and saw the second and third shots fired.”
 
Now, if the FBI had made up that Euins said the rifle was on the fifth floor to somehow make him look foolish and incompetent, why would they quote him as seeing a bald spot on the man’s head (as he testified), and that he had heard a fourth shot (just as he had testified)?
 
It seems apparent to me that in confusion, Euins had mistaken Harold Norman (standing directly below the Sniper’s nest) as being the shooter. Besides, why on Earth would the shooter actually lean out of the window when he didn’t have to?

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by beowulf on Tue 06 Aug 2013, 11:13 am

Sorry for a question that's a bit off topic Hasan but how confident are you the 6th floor SE corner sniper's nest was the only TSBD window  someone was shooting from?  Could someone have been shooting from a lower floor (or possibly SW corner  of 6th but I doubt Euins would get that mixed up).

It would be kind of awesome if Oswald's actual alibi for not being in the 6th floor sniper's nest during the shooting was he was busy in his 2nd floor sniper's nest but I guess that's unlikely. Surprised)

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by greg parker on Tue 06 Aug 2013, 1:53 pm

I
t would be kind of awesome if Oswald's actual alibi for not being in the 6th floor sniper's nest during the shooting was he was busy in his 2nd floor sniper's nest but I guess that's unlikely. )

Not unlikely. Impossible.

The windows of the all those lower floors were secured shut and could not be opened.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 06 Aug 2013, 5:46 pm

beowulf wrote:Sorry for a question that's a bit off topic Hasan but how confident are you the 6th floor SE corner sniper's nest was the only TSBD window someone was shooting from?
 
beowulf,
 
I have no reason to believe that there was someone else on a lower floor of the TSBD shooting at the President. I think there was a sniper shooting from either the 6th or 7th floor of the Dal-Tex building.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Guest on Thu 08 Aug 2013, 11:35 am

All one can do is present one's case and not be overly concerned about whether others find immediate agreement. Most people, myself included, only change their perceptions, beliefs and understanding of this case slowly. Sometimes it involves overturning cherished myths and misunderstandings; these are not easily changed. 

First, I want to deal with a specific. Underwood's KRLD report states "Finally one of the officers found a small colored boy who said that he saw a man fire from about the 4th floor..."

That's Harkness' information, not Euins'. Actually, it's Underwood's information. Misinformation.

At approximately 12:35 Herbert Sawyer arrived at the TSBD front steps. WCH VI p. 319:
BELIN: And then what did the officers tell you?
SAWYER: That their information was that the shots had come from the 5th floor of the Depository.

Then at 12:36 Harkness makes a radio call: "I have a witness that says that it came from the 5th floor of the Texas Book Depository Store."

And at 12:40 Victoria Adams heard over a motorcycle radio that "the shots came from the 5th or 4th floor..."

So now the 4th floor got added into the confusion, maybe because the passenger elevator only went up that high, and Sawyer had recently used it. There was plenty of confusion about floors that day. So I don't think Underwood's excited reporting qualifies as accurate evidence.

We've, unfortunately, only got 2 witnesses to the sniper's nest shooter in the act of shooting. Howard Brennan and Amos Euins. Brennan is next to worthless, and I need not elaborate here, unless he was describing the spotter who was standing. Euins had a pair of fresh young eyes. He was black. He told Underwood flat-out that the shooter was a colored man. This report was broadcast in New York. But it had a short shelf life. Because the powers that be managed to manipulate the story of a small black kid. 

When Underwood describes the "colored man lean out of the window upstairs," that sounds an awfully lot like Euins' testimony on p. 207, where he recounts that the rifle extended almost 3 feet out of the window, "enough to get the stock and receiving house and the trigger house to stick out". It's a wonder the sniper didn't fall out. Maybe James Worrell would've caught him.  Laughing 

It looks very straightforward to me. On November 29 Euins "could not tell anything about the man", and his stepfather wondered whether he imagined the whole thing. Nope, don't know nothin'.

On December 14 Euins is sure the sniper was a white man. "...he could see a bald spot on the man's head..." I'll tell ya anything, mister. 

And soon before his March testimony his mother receives threatening phone calls. From whom, pray tell? From some lowlife tool of the powers that be. Amos proceeds to testify in defense of his mother.

SPECTER: Of what race was he, Amos?
EUINS: I couldn't tell, because these boxes were throwing a reflection, shaded.

Ever try to catch a reflection, mister? Coach'll toss you out of Little League for that maneuver. pale

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 09 Aug 2013, 6:01 am

I want to clear my mind up before replying to the above post. Hopefully sometime today.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by beowulf on Fri 09 Aug 2013, 6:32 am

But why would a 56 year old janitor wake up one day and decide to shoot the president (the one pushing harder for black civil rights any other president since Grant)?

Certainly Piper perjured himself to WC about where he was during the shooting. I can imagine him being tricked into being a 6th floor witness or maybes coerced into being a lookout. But picking rifle and taking shots at human beings? That requires a tremendous amount of crazy and/or dedication (US Army historian Slam Marshall did a famous study in WWII, finding that only  25% of men in combat with semiautomatic rifles ever pulled the trigger, one of the reasons armies soon after went to automatic rifles).

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by greg parker on Fri 09 Aug 2013, 7:56 am

beowulf wrote:But why would a 56 year old janitor wake up one day and decide to shoot the president (the one pushing harder for black civil rights any other president since Grant)?

Certainly Piper perjured himself to WC about where he was during the shooting. I can imagine him being tricked into being a 6th floor witness or maybes coerced into being a lookout. But picking rifle and taking shots at human beings? That requires a tremendous amount of crazy and/or dedication (US Army historian Slam Marshall did a famous study in WWII, finding that only  25% of men in combat with semiautomatic rifles ever pulled the trigger, one of the reasons armies soon after went to automatic rifles).
To play Devil's Advocate, you could equally ask why anyone of Jewish extraction would ever become a Nazi? Such cases do exist.

And getting people to think and act against there own interests is the art of politics.

Those things aside, I agree that Piper makes a most unlikely sniper. As you say -- coerced or duped - he was up there for another reason - and likely not the one he thought.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 10 Aug 2013, 7:27 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:All one can do is present one's case and not be overly concerned about whether others find immediate agreement. Most people, myself included, only change their perceptions, beliefs and understanding of this case slowly. Sometimes it involves overturning cherished myths and misunderstandings; these are not easily changed. 
We're just going to have to agree to disagree about what race the shooter was, Richard. All of my objections to the shooter being non-white are explained above, so I won't waste my time repeating it all here. But yes, I think that Euins would testify to protect his mother, though we have no way of knowing for sure that's what he was doing.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by beowulf on Mon 12 Aug 2013, 1:15 pm

Over at ED someone linked to a 1966 Esquire piece with a list of conspiracies, which linked to a  1967 piece with even more. In the second article, Greg's buddy David Lifton had a rather novel theory (No. 18) involving landscape architecture.

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/conspiracy_theories/Primer/Primer_of_assassination_theories.html

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/conspiracy_theories/Second_Primer/Second_primer.html

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by greg parker on Mon 12 Aug 2013, 2:34 pm

Greg's buddy David Lifton had a rather novel theory (No. 18) involving landscape architecture.
Was that David's work? Gee willikers. I thought it was Mel Brooks' script for "Blazing Assassins".

Mel Brooks is a genius. Since I mistook David's work for that of Mel's, I'd have to admit David must also be a genius. 

Which explains why he is held in such high regard by educators.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 14 Aug 2013, 5:58 pm

greg parker wrote:Was that David's work? Gee willikers. I thought it was Mel Brooks' script for "Blazing Assassins".

Mel Brooks is a genius. Since I mistook David's work for that of Mel's, I'd have to admit David must also be a genius. 

Which explains why he is held in such high regard by educators.
lol!

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Vinny on Tue 24 Sep 2013, 8:11 pm

Is Amos still alive?

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Guest on Wed 25 Sep 2013, 10:13 am

I believe so. There is a listing for a 65-year-old Amos Lee Euins, as having a phone number in Dallas, Mesquite and Balch Springs, all in Texas.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Vinny on Wed 25 Sep 2013, 7:26 pm

Thanks Richard.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by ianlloyd on Fri 18 Oct 2013, 12:03 am

If I recall correctly, but I may well be wrong here, I think Duke Lane virtually debunked Euins as a witness at one point, or am I thinking of someone other than Euins (I know Carr etc.)...? Did Euins say that he was at Love Field and watched AF1 land etc., then still managed to get to DP in time to see the assassination but Duke raised serious doubts about this being possible/probable?

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:25 am

ianlloyd wrote:If I recall correctly, but I may well be wrong here, I think Duke Lane virtually debunked Euins as a witness at one point, or am I thinking of someone other than Euins (I know Carr etc.)...? Did Euins say that he was at Love Field and watched AF1 land etc., then still managed to get to DP in time to see the assassination but Duke raised serious doubts about this being possible/probable?
Ian,

I believe that was James Richard Worrell.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

Post by ianlloyd on Fri 18 Oct 2013, 1:45 am

Ah, yes, thanks Hasan.

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Re: Amos Lee Euins

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