Ruth Paine's Calendar

First topic message reminder :

Was the rifle allegedly shipped by Klein's Sporting Goods to A. Hidell actually instead "shipped" to Ruth Paine?

Gil Jesus has pointed out in a recent Ed Forum post that in Hoover's 10:00 AM phone call to LBJ on November 23, Hoover states that the Klein's rifle was shipped "to a man- no, to a woman by the name of A. Heidel". Jim DiEugenio has asked whether this might relate to Ruth Paine's calendar markings.

Her calendar for March may be found at XVII p. 56; it contains a 5-pointed star in the box for March 20; another 5-pointed star is at the top left-hand corner of the page, beside the notation "Oct 23- LHO purchase of rifle".

*

Mrs. Paine had no explanation for this entry, but tried to tell the Commission that she had mistakenly written "October 23" instead of November 23... the day after the assassination, Mrs. Paine somehow knew that Klein's shipped a rifle to A. Hidell on March 20, 1963... The day after the assassination only a few FBI officials had access to the Klein's microfilm and no one in the DPD knew about March 20th until that evening, and certainly not Mrs. Paine. Even if Mrs. Paine mistakenly wrote "Oct 23" instead of "Nov 23" on her calendar, it does not explain how she knew, the day after the assassination, that Klein's shipped a rifle to Oswald on March 20, 1963...

The only way Mrs. Paine could have known on November 23 that Klein's had shipped a rifle to Oswald on March 20, 1963, is if she was told by a person or persons unknown or if she had knowledge of the shipment before the assassination.

-Harvey and Lee, p. 912

*

The relevant testimony was given on 3/21/64, at IX p. 358:

JENNER: Now, I turn to March, and I direct your attention to the upper left-hand corner of that card, and it appears to me that in the upper left-hand corner are October 23, then a star, then "LHO" followed by the words "purchase of a rifle". Would you explain those entries?
PAINE: Yes. This was written after.
JENNER: After.
PAINE: This was written indeed after the assassination.
JENNER: All right.
PAINE: I heard on the television that he had purchased a rifle.
JENNER: When?
PAINE: I heard it on November 23.
JENNER: Yes.
PAINE: And went back to the page for March, put a little star on March 20 as being a small square, I couldn't fit in all I wanted to say. I just put in a star and then referring it to the corner of the calendar.
JENNER: That is the entry I have read?
PAINE: Put the star saying "LHO purchase of rifle", then I thought someone is going to wonder about that, I had better put down the date, and did, but it was a busy day, one of the most in my life, and I was off by a month as to what day it was.
JENNER: That is you made the entry October?
PAINE: October 23 instead of November.
JENNER: It should have been November 23?
PAINE: It should have been November 23.
JENNER: And the entry of October 23, which should have been November 23, was an entry on your part indicating the date you wrote on the calendar the star followed by "LHO purchase of rifle" and likewise the date you made an entry?
PAINE: On the 20th.
JENNER: This is the square having the date March 20?
PAINE: Yes.
JENNER: Is that correct?
PAINE: I might point out that I didn't know Lee had a middle name until I had occasion to fill out forms for Marina at Parkland Hospital. <these pertained to the birth of Rachel Oswald on October 20>
JENNER: That is when you learned that his middle name was Harvey and his initial was H?
Paine: Right.

*

But 2 days earlier, on 3/19/64, at III p. 8, as Ruth was describing how she helped Marina move from New Orleans to Irving, she demonstrated that she already knew LHO's middle name:

"...My recollection is that he was present most of the weekend. He went out to buy groceries, came in with a cheery call to his two girls, saying "Yabutchski", which means girls, the Russian word for girls, as he came in the door. It was more like Harvey than I had seen him before."

Great work all!!! Still trying to digest but thought I'd throw in aother scenraio for consideration...

It's concerning the 2 rifles - one 36" and one 40" - could 2 have actually been ordered - One in March and one in October?

EDIT:

Further thoughts on this scenario - it could explain the rifle lengths discrepancy - there is a school of thought that says the 40" rifle (or carbine...whichever) wasn't available in March 1963 and was only available after June 1963 (IIRC). In this case, what happened to the 36" rifle? Would the same ammo have been used for either length? This would obviously impact the BYPs as well!!!...

ianlloyd wrote:Great work all!!! Still trying to digest but thought I'd throw in aother scenraio for consideration...

It's concerning the 2 rifles - one 36" and one 40" - could 2 have actually been ordered - One in March and one in October?

EDIT:

Further thoughts on this scenario - it could explain the rifle lengths discrepancy - there is a school of thought that says the 40" rifle (or carbine...whichever) wasn't available in March 1963 and was only available after June 1963 (IIRC). In this case, what happened to the 36" rifle? Would the same ammo have been used for either length? This would obviously impact the BYPs as well!!!...

Ian,

Richard's having some computer problems, but I'm sure this line of thought would be of interest to him.

My thoughts... I've already considered the possibility of a rifle purchase in October. Your memory about when the 40" became available adds some weight to that line of thought. Would it be possible to check your memory on that?

This may also answer some questions about the bag. Would a 36" rifle (broken down or otherwise) fit in the bag now in evidence? IOW, was the bag made for a 36" rifle to begin with?

Hi Greg,

Yes, I've considered this previously - Assuming the bag was made to carry the rifle (still a big assumption IMO!), my thoughts initially were that a 36" rifle was ordered and expected to be delivered and the bag was made for such a weapon. I don't suppose whoever received the 40" weapon realised it was 40", not 36" long (I doubt they would have measured it and the difference between a 36" and 40" weapon isn't quite so obvious) perhaps until trying to fit it into the bag ("Holy sh*t!! My rifle doesn't fit in the bag!!!"???). This is where the WC becomes seriously unravelled then, having to get the rifle to have to be dimantled to fit into the bag. IIRC, the bag is 38" long, so it seems a 36" rifle would fit into it fairly comfortably.

Regarding the 40" weapon only being available from June - I've read quite a lot about this on other forums (Ed & JFKassassination). Some arguments seem compelling, some not so.

Regards,

Ian

bump in light of new ed forum thread started by Vince Palamara.

So it appears that the Ed Forum is uanable to work out the significance of the notation of the date Oct 23. The best they can come up with is that it looks unrelated to the notation about the rifle purchase.

And fair play to them, they got that much right.

This was another small puzzle that I was saving for the next volumes, but I can't stand to see all the teeth gnashing - and anyway - it is not really earth-shattering, nor conspiritorial.

Ruth met Marina on February 22. They next met on Marc 12 and Marina confided in Ruth during this meeting that she was pregnant.

Mr. JENNER - To the best of your ability. Tell us a little more, then, to the extent you have a recollection what occurred and what was said in the park on that occasion.
Mrs. PAINE - Well, I recall that we talked, and, as I said, it may be the first visit or it may have been the first and the second melded in my mind. She said that she was expecting a baby. She said that Lee didn't want her to learn English. He was not encouraging her to learn English or helping her with it, that he spoke only Russian to her and to their baby June. And she told me--now, let me say that my calendar does show a notation on the 20th of March, it says, "Marina" and I judge I went again to see her at her home on that day, or brought her to my house, I am not certain which. But I judge, also, that this was the second visit.
Mr. JENNER - I Suggest that you might have melded these a moment ago. Now I wish you would keep these apart for the moment.
Mrs. PAINE - So far as I can.
Mr. JENNER - And stick with the occasion in the park first and exhaust your recollection.
Mrs. PAINE - Well, I was impressed, talking with her in the park, with what I felt to be her need to have a friend. This was virtually our first meeting, but she confided to me something that she didn't want generally known among the Russian segment.
Mr. JENNER - That was her pregnancy?
Mrs. PAINE - Of Dallas. She inquired of me, a young woman, about birth control methods, and she said that she felt-- ell, clearly this pregnancy had surprised her, but she said that she didn't believe in abortion, and didn't want to consider such a course.

Ruth's steel trap mind kicks in and she probably questioned Marina closely about when her last period was in order to determine an approximate due date - which she calculated as Oct 23 - only 3 days out,

Audrey as we know, was born on October 20.

It may or may not be ironic given the dispute over throat wounds... but the name Audrey comes from St Audrey - patron saint of those suffering from throat "complaints". 

At this rate, we may run out of non-mysteries before I publish... but I doubt it   
 
The only true mystery here is why Ruth failed to recall the reason for the date being written down way back in March. 

I don't wanna start any rumors, but I suspect that Marina's pregnancy had some sort of Satanic significance. There was certainly a pizza shop within a 10 mile radius of where the demon seed was planted.

Find a video of Audrey and look into those soulless eyes. The truth about the assassination may actually only require an exorcism of this poor girl.


.

John Cotter @ the ed forum wrote:Why couldn’t Ruth Paine with her “steel trap mind” remember that innocent “mundane” explanation when testifying to the WC, instead of purportedly concocting a false convoluted story about the calendar notes?

It's a reasonable question John, even though the comment about her mind was tongue-in-cheek.

Dont know how common the term is around the world so forgive my attempt to explain it, but to me, it means nothing escapes notice or memory. People who actually do have excellent memory, do not need to take notes on everything. Her habitual note-taking is indicative of someone with no faith in their own memory. 

But even someone with a barely average memory should be able to recall that it had to do with the pregnancy of a friend. 

What we have as evidence is

the calendar entry which looks very much like the date was written in a prior sitting to the rifle entry.

Her own initial statement that she did not think the date was related at all to the riffle entry, despite claiming no recall as to exactly what it was about.

I believe the first part, but like you, have doubts about the alleged memory failure regarding the second part.

So what could she possibly be hiding here?

I think she was hiding the fact that she knew the person she had only just met, and who was well below her in the all-important social pecking order, would still be in her life almost 9 months later...

As a sidebar, the single "X" mark you can see marked on one day each month was Ruth tracking her own menstrual cycles. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But when the husband and kids have a keen interest in the subject via pagan religious beliefs,it takes on a Wicker Man vibe.

Chris and Mike ran a nice little weekend retreat for young girls to perform "coming of age" rituals in the 1990s and ealy 2000s.. 

If you know the movie "The Wicker Man",  you can probably draw some parallels to the Oswalds and Paines and what roles they would have assumed in that movie.

Jimmy di @ the education forum wrote:Steve Thomas is one of the best and most credible posters on this site.  This is what he just wrote in summary:

That suggests three possibilities:

a) she was genuinely mistaken about the date; or,

b) the FBI caught her in a lie and confronted her; or,

c) that since her statement of the 17th was already part of the official record, the FBI went back to her and helped her coordinate her story to set the record straight.

So now Jonathan goes to ROKC to defend Ruthie, somehow missing the fact that Greg Parker is one of her chief, and most effective, accusers.  Bill Hootkins for starters.

As far as I can tell, the only relevant thing Steve posted was this:




Which is the FBI clowns taking wildass guesses. This is the same mob that misread "An A Hidell" as "Ana Hidell" and sent themselves on a wild goose chase looking for "her".

You would need to ask yourself why Marina would tell Ruth it was March but then tell the FBI it was January?

The answer is she never said anything to Ruth about ordering anything, and her statement to the FBI regarding an order in January was most likely her recalling the ordering of the pistol on Jan 28.

More than that, you would have to ask why leave it till October to tell Ruth and why did Ruth do nothing about it? Did Ruth think Oswald had a rifle kept in the boarding house? 

The fact is that Lee had nothing to do with ordering the weapon. 

But the girls did discuss Marina's pregnancy on March 12. The Planned Parenthood advocate also hints in her testimony that she brought up the possibility of an abortion which Marina promptly rejected. Given all of this, it is only logical that they calculated the due date and that the control freak noted said date on her Calendar of Mystery and Wonder.

I stand by my belief that her noting that date is evidence that she knew even then that Marina was a long-term "project". 

That brings up at least 3 possibilities

1. Ruth had a crush on Marina
2. Ruth saw Marina as a "deserving" charity case that she herself would manage long-term
3. She was tapped to "baby-sit" Marina
4. Any combination of the above

One thing I am not interested in Doing, Jim is trying to assimilate every anomoly into a GUCT (Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory). Here, Ruth noting the due date is an entirely innocent act in and of itself, but it also is a clue as to the long-term nature that Ruth already had in mind for this unusual friendship. 

I do think that Ruth ordered that rifle when she picked Marina up on the 12th, using Marina's access to the PO Box to have it sent there.  

Here is the chronology:

October 1959: The man pictured below is in Moscow and stands in for Oswald in the interviews with Miss Prissy and Mosby. Note the hairline and the hairline of Oswald photos out of Moscow. In any case, no one would ever describe the real Oswald as a nice looking 6 footer. 

January 28, 1963: Someone orders the pistol under the name of AJ Hidell, possibly for the Dodd Committee investigation. This is shown via the fake name used as a reference, "DF Drittal" which = the German phrase “Dienst Fur Drittal” - in English "Service for third party" according to google translate.

("At first, the committee largely focused on handguns" this quote is taken from the WP article The gun-control effort that almost stopped our addiction to weapons of war', 04/27/2021).  


Thus the pistol was the first order.

Here is the "someone" I believe ordered the pistol. 



 Feb 22: The Oswald's meet Ruth at a dinner party 

 Mar 03: Marina and June move from Elsbeth to Neely St where she continues an affair with Gary Taylor which started when she lived with the Taylors - who had separated due to this affair⁸. Taylor is a photographer and may be the father of Audrey.

Mar 12: Ruth picks Marina up. Marina confides that she is pregnant and that Lee may not be the father. She rejects an offer to help her get an abortion. The purpose of this day however is to order a rifle via mail order, since AJ Hidell is no longer in town working on this. Ruth makes a small mistake tho by ordering the rifle in just "A Hidell" instead of AJ Hidell. A small but telling mistake. The weapon ordered and received is a 36 inch MC.

Mar 28: With the help of Taylor, the backyard photos are faked using Lee's newspapers and the weapons that had been ordered by "Hidell". The IR is not the camera used. The purpose of the photos is probably just a joke at Lee's expense.

Apr 10: The fake assassination attempt is made on Walker and has nothing to do with Lee.

Apr ?: Oswald wears placard saying Hands off Cuba, viva Fidel and hands out a small number of leaflets in Dallas. He leaves Marina a note on what to do if anything happens to him.

April 24: due to the leafleting incident and almost being caught, Oswald moves to NO and hooks up again with the man using the name AJ Hidell.

May ?: An order is made for pamphlets 

Jun 16: The man using the name AJ Hidell hands some of these out on the docks where the WASP is open to the general public. He is reported to police and is escorted away from the area. "Hidell" contacts Oswald and asks him to take over leafleting duties before again "going underground".

Nov:  "Hidell" is possibly back in Dallas helping set up the operation, but now using a variation on his real name. 

Nov 22: The 36 inch rifle that was ordered is not available to the plotters and they have to use a 40 model with the same serial number. The pistol however is still around and is used to frame Oswald for the Tippit killing despite the evidence showing that Tippit was killed with a different weapon.  

This is still a work in progress. I have not listed all the evidence by any stretch and it is subject to change.

Hairline comparison. 

In order: Oswald in Minsk. Me X, year unknown but likely in the 1970s or 80s. Mosby interview pic



Mr X was recruited into CIA while in college. He spent time in USSR, timeframe unknown. He later had cover jobs as a journalst and inside the office of a senator. As a journalist, he covered aspects of the assassination and one of his stories is actually in the 26 volumes.

Someone with the same surname but different first name was reported to authorities post-assassination as being in Dallas and a potential person of interest. The authorities could not find him, and in fact found no one in and around Dallas with that first and surname - possibly indicating a false name and / or not being a local. 

His later writings tell us a lot about his areas of interest and type of work he may have been involved in for the CIA. It certainly wasn't as a desk jockey. His last career was teaching at a college... until his credentials were found to be phony and his CIA background was exposed.  

Miss Prissy described Lee as a "nice looking 6-footer."

But we know she got the tip on Lee from McVickar at the Embassy, and that Lee had been refusing to speak to reporters. 

Either Miss Prissy and Mosby interviewed an Oswald stand-in who had a similar hairline, but was a few inches taller, OR they interviewed no one, but obtained data from McVickar to make the articles up - including information from his passport which listed him incorrectly as 5' 11" and which Miss Prissy rounded up to a neat 6'.

Was Lee ever aware of these articles? If he had done those interviews, one thing is absolutely certain. He would have obtained copies and kept them.

The media world was stunned by the revelations that the award-winning journalist Claas Relotius had, according to the weekly, “made up stories and invented protagonists” in at least 14 out of 60 articles that appeared in its print and online editions, warning that other outlets could also be affected.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/19/top-der-spiegel-journalist-resigns-over-fake-interviews



The publisher of a German magazine that ran what it described as a “world sensation” interview with the retired Formula 1 driver Michael Schumacher, but used responses written by artificial intelligence, has fired the magazine’s editor and apologized to Mr. Schumacher’s family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/24/business/media/michael-schumacher-ai-fake-interview.html


This is a different concept to "fake news" which to my mind is all about manipulating perception, propaganda, and good ol' click bait.

Making up interviews out of whole cloth is not so much fake news as it is fake journalism.Those involved in fake news are not out there trying to win Pullitzers. I could well imagine Miss Prissy and Mosby being desperate enough to get this story that they would fake it after Oswald repeatedly refused interviews.

Amazing stuff Greg,

John Cotter @ the ed forum wrote:I wasn’t aware – though I’m not surprised – that the Paines were interested in neo-paganism and what Jungians call lunar consciousness. That might help to explain Ruth Paine’s attentiveness to menstrual cycles and such matters.  

I just checked. the aspiring Godesses program is still running, though I don't know if Chris Paine (using the name Panym which is another word for Pagan) is still involved.

http://www.earthpatheducation.com/growing-goddess-mystery-school-spring-series

Here is the liability release form the parents of future godesses had to sign.

"I hereby release, waive and discharge Earth Path Education Staff, Chris LS Panym, Kai Harris, Michael R Paine, Michael R. Paine Trust, program site locations..."
http://www.earthpatheducation.com/growing-goddess-mystery-school-spring-series

Here is is Chris Panym Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/cpanym

He has another page in his real name which is the one he currently uses.

The name Panym
https://www.wordsense.eu/panym/

He is currently on the board of some quasi-greenie group which was set up in the 1980s by oil companies to protest against nuclear energy.

Apparently among their current beliefs is that sand causes cancer. And all this time, those lying scientists have told us it was the sun at the beach causing the highest rate of skin cancer in the world down here... when it has been sand all along.

What a fucked-up world we live in.

Max Good @ the ed forum wrote:I actually cut a little scene about this but it didn't make it into the movie.  This issue appears to be inconclusive.  Ruth's story is that she heard the March 20 date on TV on 11/23/63 and wrote it down in her calendar.  I found the footage where that date is announced.  The issue of the mixup between October/November is odd though.

You can see it (for free) on my Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/deleted-scene-73267969

Max, I note you say in the link provided that you find her explanation plausible.

I don't believe you were aware when you wrote that, that she originally told authorities she did not believe the date and the rifle note had any connection. 

It seems by the time of her testimony, she was encouraged to come up with such a connection, but the fact remains that the date and the note have the appearance of being written during different sittings - which is right in line with your first statement on the matter - no connection.

There is no way that Ruth and Marina talk about Marina's pregnancy and the possibility of an abortion and NOT calculate the due by date. She was obsessed with Marina. She was obsessed with Planned Parenthood. And her whole family was/is obsessed with th whole paganist goddess/moon/menstrual cycle schtick. 

I'm sorry Max, but you are simple wrong.

From Mrs Paine's Garage.



The Commission staff had already fed itself on hundreds of FBI and police interviews, material that raised just a handful of red flags about Ruth’s own conduct: Counsel David Belin wanted to know if she really had said “we were expecting you” to the police, and there was a curious notation on the March
1963 page of her Hallmark pocket calendar that needed, to say the least, clarification: “H—LHO purchase of rifle.”

The explanation of the latter was fairly simple. Ruth had made this post-facto jotting when the story of Oswald’s mail-order gun-buying came out in news reports. “I was trying to figure out where it fit into things,” she explains today—trying to reconstruct, in future Watergate parlance, what she hadn’t
known and when she hadn’t known it. “I was also really spaced out at that point. I wasn’t functioning too well.”

One of his staffers tried to cannibalize Ruth’s old Hallmark calendar for a few parts that might go into the monstrosity the DA’s office was trying to build. She remembers him saying, “‘Would you explain these Xs that you have on your date book?’ And I said, ‘Well, most people keep track of their menstrual periods,’ and he flushed so red.’ He was sorry he’d asked, but as far as I was concerned, better to know than to wonder!”