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The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 20 Jan 2017, 3:02 pm

I find the 1956 date for the intelligence groups inception interesting.

https://www.texasobserver.org/2343-the-spies-of-texas-newfound-files-detail-how-ut-austin-police-tracked-the-lives-of-sixties-dissidents/

The big kid on the block, however, was the FBI, with its secret Counterintelligence Program (COINTELPRO). Set up in 1956, its mission was to “expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize.” The prime target of this activity became the New Left and the black power movement. In War at Home: Covert Action Against U.S. Activists, Brian Glick says the four main methods of operation were: infiltration; psychological warfare from the outside; harassment through the legal system; and extralegal force and violence. “They resorted to the secret and systematic use of fraud and force to sabotage constitutionally protected political activity.”
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by greg parker on Fri 20 Jan 2017, 3:27 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:I find the 1956 date for the intelligence groups inception interesting.

https://www.texasobserver.org/2343-the-spies-of-texas-newfound-files-detail-how-ut-austin-police-tracked-the-lives-of-sixties-dissidents/

The big kid on the block, however, was the FBI, with its secret Counterintelligence Program (COINTELPRO). Set up in 1956, its mission was to “expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize.” The prime target of this activity became the New Left and the black power movement. In War at Home: Covert Action Against U.S. Activists, Brian Glick says the four main methods of operation were: infiltration; psychological warfare from the outside; harassment through the legal system; and extralegal force and violence. “They resorted to the secret and systematic use of fraud and force to sabotage constitutionally protected political activity.”
Cointelpro - August 1956 to be more specific.
With that in mind, look at when William Lowery nominated Joe Molina as Chairman of the Dallas GI Forum - July 4, 1956....

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pdf/WH26_CE_3132.pdf

I also like the previous quote:

During the Sixties and Seventies, a number of government agencies had significant overlapping domestic surveillance programs. According to former military intelligence officer Christopher H. Powell, who now teaches constitutional law at Mount Holyoke College, U.S. Army Intelligence had a network of 1,500 agents dispersed throughout the country and maintained files on more than a million American citizens. The IRS was involved in “counter-subversive” intelligence operations, had massive files, and shared them with other agencies. The CIA conducted significant domestic spying, targeted SDS, SNCC, the Black Panther Party, and a number of other organizations and had a substantial campus presence with agents among the faculty and administration. Texas was no exception.
Prof. Chuck Webster.  No doubt about it. He was in this mix somewhere.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Fri 20 Jan 2017, 8:43 pm

greg parker wrote:
Ed. Ledoux wrote:
The big kid on the block, however, was the FBI, with its secret Counterintelligence Program (COINTELPRO).According to former military intelligence officer Christopher H. Powell, who now teaches constitutional law at Mount Holyoke College, U.S. Army Intelligence had a network of 1,500 agents dispersed throughout the country and maintained files on more than a million American citizens.

His name was actually Christopher Pyle, and noone can understand the domestic surveillance by U.S. Intelligence Agencies in the 1960's without reading about the Army Spy scandals in the 1970's. The Army's Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) far outstripped anything the FBI was doing.

I'd encourage you to read here:

http://www.cmhpf.org/Random%20Files/senator%20sam%20ervin.htm

"According to Pyle, the U.S. Army Intelligence Command for the Continental United States ("CONUS intelligence") included more than one thousand undercover agents operating in a nationwide system with more than three hundred offices.[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn6][6][/url]  Agents sent their reports through a national teletype network to Fort Holabird, Maryland, where the Army kept its central computer."

Remember Robert Jones telling the HSCA about sending his his info back to Fort Holabird?

Once the scale of this domestic spying program became public, the Army began a wholesale purge of its records.

"In order to cover up the excesses of their domestic spying, CONUS commanders throughout the country began to replace all of their newer agents with older career soldiers.[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn18][18][/url]  Intelligence units received orders "to just hide it, get it out of the way, this will all blow over."[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn19][19][/url]  At some bases they destroyed the data but kept the "input" (the computer keypunch cards), or copied the information onto microfilm before destroying it.[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn20][20][/url]  As one clerk later recalled, "The order didn't say to destroy the information, just destroy the Compendium [a computer data bank]."[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn21][21][/url]  Typical were the actions of the officers in the 116th Military Intelligence Group at Fort McNair in Washington D.C. who classified all of their files and threatened anyone disclosing anything about their domestic surveillance would be court‑martial or prosecuted in civilian court for violation of national security."[url=http://www.cmhpf.org/Random Files/senator sam ervin.htm#_edn22][22]"[/url]

Those keypunch cards and microfilm records could very well still be hidden away somewhere.

Jones told the HSCA that, if it had been up to him, he would have kept Oswald's files just for historical purposes, but that wasn't his decision.

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 2:50 am

I recall Holabird was where he, Jones, was trained in intelligence in '49 and again in '60. and in '65 was Chief of Operations Center Intelligence Command.
Whether the military still hides/or has a repository of IBM punch cards or a microfilm master file still would be an interesting question perhaps we can answer.
Would they send any remaining files elsewhere??? IDK but Jones gave the suggestions of
Vault Files, checking at Fort George Meade, in Central Records Facilities and Records and Reports facilities.


The Investigations Control and Automation Directorate is housed in the old Army intelligence school at Fort Holabird, most of which was closed in the 1970s with the loss of 1,300 military and 2,800 civilian jobs. It has since become an industrial park.
The office, part of the Defense Investigative Service (DIS), houses the personnel investigations center, which processes about 775,000 security clearances annually for employees of the Defense Department and defense contractors. It is also the national computer center for the investigative service.

In 1988 the base closure commission decided to keep the investigative office open at Fort Holabird. If it is closed, the base will be vacant.
One of the last offices to occupy Fort Holabird, the Army Crime Records Center, completed relocating its 2.3 million criminal investigative files to Fort Belvoir, Va., earlier this month.


and this,

(The large CIC detachments in the United States had been redesignated as "groups" between 1956 and 1959.) At the same time, the Army ordered the field offices of the Intelligence Corps Command and the provost marshal's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) to be brought together wherever possible, and the records of the CID repository removed from Fort Gordon, Georgia, and collocated with the counterintelligence records at Fort Holabird.

Counter Intelligence Records Facility based here until transferred to Fort Huachuca, Arizona in 1971

Fort Holabird: The Commission
recommends the closure of the portion of
Fort Holabird occupied by the Criminal
Records Center (CRC) of the Criminal
Investigation Command (CIDC). As
detailed above, this relocation of CRC to
Fort Belvoir will consolidate split functions,
thereby improving mission effectiveness
and efficiency.
The current facilities are inadequate for
the criminal-records mission. The Defense
Investigative Service, which is adequately
housed in another portion of the Fort, and
the Wherry Housing Project, which has a
long term, non-termination lease, will both
remain.

Investigative Records Repository (IRR) of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), hold the bulk of the surviving CIC records. Researchers, however, should be aware that many CIC records remain in the possession of other US government agencies, primarily those in the Intelligence Community.

....the CIC records were microfilmed in the 1950s and 1960s on some 10,000 reels of microfilm, which were returned to the United States with the Central Registry. The microfilm is organized into eight different series. Under the auspices of the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act (NWCDA), the IRR is electronically scanning all of the microfilm (which is deteriorating with the passage of time) to expedite the tracing of individuals and to identify records for review and declassification. The IRR transfers to NARA its declassified files, including many personal and impersonal dossiers. The Army expects to finish the scanning of its microfilm records by the end of this year so as to meet the deadlines for review and declassification specified under the Act. While the NWCDA review will not declassify all CIC records at the IRR, the Army is taking a serious look at all its historical holdings from the CIC period for the first time in decades.

https://aec.army.mil/Portals/3/nepa/Army2020SPEA-3.pdf




This reached a point of revelation
sometime in mid-February when Army
General Counsel Jordan went to Fort
Holabird and watched as the computer
bank on dissidents disgorged a lengthy
print-out on Mrs. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“For example, the Intelligence Com-
mand published ... an identification list
which included the names and descrip-
tions of individuals who might become
involved in civil disturbance situations.
And: “The Intelligence Command has
operated a computer data bank . . .
which included information about po-
tential incidents and individuals involved
in potential civil disturbance incidents.

Jordan assured members of Congress
that both the identification list and the
data bank had been ordered destroyed.
“Thus,” he concluded, “the Army does
not currently maintain the idcntitication
list referred to above. No computer data
bank of civil disturbance information is
being maintained . . . .”

Again, the denials were both plausible
and deceptive. Jordan’s seemingly candid
letter failed to mention that in addition
to the Fort Holabird computer (an IBM
1401) and the Intelligence Command’s
identification list (published in over 330
copies), the Army also maintained:

1) over 375 copies or a two-volume,
loose-leaf encyclopedia on dissent en-
titled "Counterintelligence Research Pro-
ject: Cities and Organizations of Interest
and Individuals of Interest” but popu-
larly known as “the Compendium.
Compiled by the domestic intelligence
section of the Counterintelligence Analy-



sis Division (C1AD), a Pentagon-based
unit responsible for brieling high Army
officials like Jordan on protest politics,
the Compendium contained descriptions
of hundreds of organizations and individ-
uals, including the John Birch Society,
the Urban League, the Fifth Avenue
Peace Parade Committee, Negro play-
wright LeRoi Jones, and the late Rev.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

2) a computer-indexed, microfilm
archive of intelligence reports, news-
paper clippings, and other records of po-
litical protests and civil disturbances at
CIAD headquarters in Alexandria, Vir-
ginia. The index to this data bank is a
computer print-out, 50 lines to a page, a
foot-and-a-half thick. It catalogues mi-
crofilmed documents relating to such
groups as Young Americans for Free-
dom, the Southern Christian Leadership
Conference, and the Center for the
Study of Democratic Institutions. Indi-
viduals listed include Rear Admiral
Arnold E. True and Brigadier General
Hugh B. Hester (war critics), Georgia
State Representative Julian Bond, and
folk singers Joan Baez, Phil Ochs, and
Arlo Guthrie.

3) a computerized data bank on civil
disturbances, political protests, and “re-
sistance in the Army (RITA) at the
Continental Army Command headquar-
ters, Fort Monroe, Virginia. The civil dis-
turbance-political protest side of this
data bank was developed because the
Continental Army Command hoped to
recapture supervision of its riot control
troops from the Pentagon’s special
180-man Directorate for Civil Disturb-
ance Planning and Operations.

4) non-computerized regional data
banks at each stateside Army command
and at many military installations. In ad-
dition to (he usual agent reports, inci-
dent reports, and newspaper clippings,
these records include booklet-size
“CONUS intelligence summaries” pub-
lished each month by the 1st, 3rd, 4th,
5th, and 6th Armies, and the Military
District of Washington.

5) non-computerized files at most of
the Intelligence Command’s 300 state-
side intelligence group offices. These re-
cords on local political groups and indi-
viduals arc similar to, but more detailed
than, the records at Fort Holabird which
the Army promised to destroy. The poli-
tical files of the 108th Military Intelli-
gence Group’s Manhattan offices, for ex-
ample, take up five four-drawer file cab-
inets and require a full-time custodian.


Prompted by Capt. Christopher Pyle’s 1970 revelations of U.S. Army surveillance, the Tatum
v Laird case, which petitioned “the courts to enjoin the army from the collection,
distribution, storage of information on lawful political activities of persons unassociated
with the armed forces,” and Morton Kondrache’s 1972 Chicago Sun-Times reporting, the
Senate Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights 1 released U.S. Army Surveillance of
Civilians: A Documentary Analysis (1972, 92d Congress, 2d session).
The Subcommittee (1972:44) credits Kondrache with breaking the story regarding the
Continental Army Command’s (CONARC 1955-1973) “computerized and non-computerized
files” in which the Subcommittee (1974: v) discovered “enormity in data collection” in the
surveillance of professors, students, housewives, civil rights workers, anti-war and political
activists. 2 In its Documentary Analysis, the Subcommittee wrote
The absence of civilian control over this surveillance prior to 1970 has already been
established. This report proves an absence of central military control as well. Each
major data bank developed independent of others in a milieu which showed little
concern for the values of privacy, freedom, efficiency, or economy (1972:97).
In addition to the Subcommittee’s (1972:44, 97) unearthing of an extensive, decades-long
intelligence collection and information sharing program conducted by CONARC and its
“subordinate continental armies and their constituent elements,” most remarkable are the
revelations of the Army’s perceptions of their domestic mission and “vacuum cleaner”
approach to intelligence gathering and surveillance.

Researchers may also extend their investigative activities beyond the Department of the

Army, for as the Subcommittee (1972: 20) discovered, many military surveillance files were

shared with the CIA, FBI, NASA, Secret Service, and State Department, as well as “eight

defense attaches in foreign countries, including the Soviet Union.”


So based on the above the military is still withholding records which it had on microfilm and has digitized...
Yes somewhere in the military intelligence maze likely exists records on Oswald and Hidell, AKA or otherwise.


Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling error in original source)
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 5:31 am

Ed,

You've done a lot of work. Thank you.

Lately, I'm beginning to suspect that this 488th and Whitmeyer and Crichton might be buried in the Texas Military Department and the National Guard.

One of the reasons I suspect that is how Whitmeyer is identified in several places:


DMN 11-16-1965
"
Lt. Col. George L. Whitmeyer, deputy East Texas sector commander said the same units were listed more than a month ago..."


Whitmeyer is referred to in combined Batchelor, Lumpkin, and Stevenson, report to Curry as, “ Lt. Colonel George Whitmeyer, U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.”
DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 14, Item# 10 p. 20.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm



On April 22, 1964 Police Chief, Jesse Curry told the Warren Commission, “I had Deputy Chief Lumpkin, and he had two Secret Service men with him, I believe, out of Washington, and a Colonel Wiedemeyer who is the East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve in the area, he was with him.
Testimony of Jesse Curry. Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits, volume IV, p. 170, as cited in the History Matters Archive, http://history-matte..._Vol4_0089b.htm


There is no reference in these citations to XXX Regiment, or YYY Division, or ZZZ Army.

https://tmd.texas.gov/
The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the state of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state Adjutant General, an appointee of the Governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Governor.

Trying to research these, leads to a whole 'nuther rabbit hole.

Just as an aside, look at this Texas Army National Guard Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/texasarmynationalguard/

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by greg parker on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 9:58 am

Steve Thomas wrote:Just as an aside, look at this Texas Army National Guard Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/texasarmynationalguard/

Leavelle!

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by greg parker on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 10:07 am

greg parker wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:Just as an aside, look at this Texas Army National Guard Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/texasarmynationalguard/

Leavelle!
I was almost going to post this, but fuck it. Don't want those bastards checking me out  pirat

------------------------
[ltr]Ah yes, the man whose memory was far better into his '90s than it was in 1964 when he had 39 discreet instances of memory loss during his Warren Commission testimony. [/ltr]


[ltr]Among his later lies was that he interrogated Oswald. Not one contemporaneous report and not one mention of it anywhere until decades later with his new improved memory function.[/ltr]


[ltr]I'd triple check any claims he makes about being at Pearl Harbor. Just sayin;.[/ltr]

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 5:27 pm

No worries Steve, glad to help see where this leads.

Greg has me rolling ...

I'd triple check any claims he makes about being at Pearl Harbor. Just sayin;

Very Happy

Speaking of "those bastards"

I got a friend request:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014986903629&fref=jewel
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by greg parker on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 5:37 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:No worries Steve, glad to help see where this leads.

Greg has me rolling ...

I'd triple check any claims he makes about being at Pearl Harbor. Just sayin;

Very Happy

Speaking of "those bastards"

I got a friend request:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014986903629&fref=jewel
What the? You're on a shit list for sure!

No seriously, unless you actually do know him, be wary. The profile only went up yesterday and the avatar is actually this guy https://www.facebook.com/WalshforMontana/

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
avatar
greg parker
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Posts : 4591
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Age : 59
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Sun 22 Jan 2017, 10:15 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:
Lately, I'm beginning to suspect that this 488th and Whitmeyer and Crichton might be buried in the Texas Military Department and the National Guard.

One of the reasons I suspect that is how Whitmeyer is identified in several places:


DMN 11-16-1965
"
Lt. Col. George L. Whitmeyer, deputy East Texas sector commander said the same units were listed more than a month ago..."


Whitmeyer is referred to in combined Batchelor, Lumpkin, and Stevenson, report to Curry as, “ Lt. Colonel George Whitmeyer, U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.”
DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 14, Item# 10 p. 20.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box14.htm



On April 22, 1964 Police Chief, Jesse Curry told the Warren Commission, “I had Deputy Chief Lumpkin, and he had two Secret Service men with him, I believe, out of Washington, and a Colonel Wiedemeyer who is the East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve in the area, he was with him.
Testimony of Jesse Curry. Warren Commission Hearings and Exhibits, volume IV, p. 170, as cited in the History Matters Archive, http://history-matte..._Vol4_0089b.htm


There is no reference in these citations to XXX Regiment, or YYY Division, or ZZZ Army.

https://tmd.texas.gov/
The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the state of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state Adjutant General, an appointee of the Governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Governor.
A possible source of reference might be here:

Texas Adjutant General's Department:

An Inventory of Texas State Guard/Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps Records at the Texas State Archives, 1938-1983, undated (bulk 1941-1945)


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/taro/tslac/30026/tsl-30026.html

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 23 Jan 2017, 5:56 pm

In there are magazines which may have clues too,

Magazines
box     folder
1990/038-73    
    27.                 [Texas] National Guardsman, June 1947
    28.                 Texas Guardsman, June, July, 1943
    29.                 Texas Guardsman, December 1952
    30.                 Texas Guardsman, March-October 1954
    31.                 Reserve Officer, July 1948
    32.                 State Guardsman, January-July 1955
    33.                 State Guardsman, January-July 1956
    34.                 State Guardsman, June-August 1962
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 23 Jan 2017, 7:34 pm

greg parker wrote:
Ed. Ledoux wrote:No worries Steve, glad to help see where this leads.

Greg has me rolling ...

I'd triple check any claims he makes about being at Pearl Harbor. Just sayin;

Very Happy

Speaking of "those bastards"

I got a friend request:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100014986903629&fref=jewel
What the? You're on a shit list for sure!

No seriously, unless you actually do know him, be wary. The profile only went up yesterday and the avatar is actually this guy https://www.facebook.com/WalshforMontana
Yeah Greg, that is what I thought when I checked it out.
But likely a phisher or hacker with a fake account.

And now its gone!!
Was is Shit Shaver?
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Vinny on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 1:48 am

Leavelle often mentions joking with Lee just before he was shot by Ruby.


"Lee, if anybody shoots at you, I hope they're as good a shot as you are," meaning that the person would hit Oswald instead of Leavelle. Oswald smiled and said, "You're being melodramatic. Nobody's going to shoot at me."

I wonder if that really happened or whether Leavelle made up that story.

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 5:32 am

Here is what was really said...

"Leavelle, if anybody shoots, I hope they're as bad a shot as you are," ...meaning that the person would hit Leavelle instead of Lee.
Leavelle smiled and said, "You're being melodramatic. Nobody's going to shoot at me."

Well that's my take, probably closer to the truth.

But Jimbo is ready for next time, albeit a bit late
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 1:33 am

Steve Thomas wrote:
Lately, I'm beginning to suspect that this 488th and Whitmeyer and Crichton might be buried in the Texas Military Department and the National Guard.
In various places, George L. Whitmeyer has been identified as:
deputy East Texas sector commander
East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve
U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.


I would contend that there is no such thing.


If you do a google search, using these search terms, the only place you find entries for this search
string is in reference to the JFK assassination. These designations just don't fit in the official military chain of command.


I've gone about as far as I know how in trying to trace Whitmeyer and Crichton through official Army Reserve
channels. I believe that I have found references to Whitmeyer in Monroe, LA. in the 1950's.

In 1954 he was a Captain. By 1955 he had been promoted to Major and was still referenced as a Major in 1956.

In his wife, Frances' obituary, it says that she married George Whitmeyer after meeting him in Louisiana, and they moved to Germany where he was stationed after the war. They moved to Fort Worth in 1961 and then to Dallas in 1963. I do not know his status in the Reserves after he came back from Germany.


As far as Crichton “forming his own spy unit” consisting of 100 men, with half of them being Dallas Police Officers and him reporting to Whitmeyer, I have been in contact with a former commanding officer of an actual Army Reserve Military Intelligence Detachment, and asked him about these designations.
He wrote me back and said,


"I'm still puzzled by the title "Deputy East Texas Sector Commander." It just doesn't fit in the scenarios I've been used to, which is why I suspect this unit was not a Guard unit but a Texas State Militia Reserve unit."


A couple of more thoughts occurred to me as to source of 488. California, Texas and Ohio, I know,
have what are called State Militias. These are non-paid "paramilitary" individuals who organize units and give
themselves ranks, etc. That could explain a MID with nearly 100 people in it, it is, basically,
a social club.

Some times they do very good work, other times not so much.
As I said, they don't get paid, and they would not have security clearances, unless they had a full-time job,
such as a policeman or investigator. Alas, I don't know of anyway to track one of these units. You might try
the Texas National Guard.

You might recall that in 2003 or 04, Dan Rather did a piece on George Bush (#2) and used a "NG General"
as his source. The NG General was a retired National Guard Lieutenant Colonel who had
got himself
into the Texas Militia and got a star. He is about as much a general as Colonel Sanders was a colonel.”



The records of the Texas Adjutant General's Department have been moved to the Texas State Archives,
which I'm pretty sure are at the Texas State Library. Another source of information would be the records of Camp Mabry and its museum there, although I think their records were also transferred to the Archives. (Camp Mabry was the site of the Reserve Officers Training school.)




Texas Adjutant General's Department:


An Inventory of Texas State Guard/Texas Defense Guard/Texas State Guard Reserve Corps Records at the Texas State Archives, 1938-1983, undated (bulk 1941-1945)


“When the Texas National Guard was demobilized in 1947, the 50th Legislature (by Senate Bill 361) created the Texas State Guard Reserve Corps (TSGRC), to provide a reservoir of military strength for use by the state in time of national or state emergency, when any part of the Texas National Guard was called into federal service. When so activated, this Texas State Guard Reserve Corps would function as the Texas State Guard (TSG). The Governor of Texas appointed a Commanding General for the Texas State Guard Reserve Corps, to be supervised by the Adjutant General of Texas. Initially the state was divided into twelve districts, each with a colonel as regimental commander.
In January 1958, the TSGRC was reorganized as follows: an Active Reserve, a Ready Reserve, an Inactive Reserve, an Enlisted Reserve, an Honorary Reserve, a Provost Marshal Section, and an
ROTC-NDCC [Reserve Officer Training Corps-National Defense Cadet Corps] Group. As the most important component, the Active Reserve was composed of a Corps Headquarters, one Corps Radio Unit, six Defense Group Headquarters, six Defense Group Radio Units, 30 Internal Security Battalions (about half of them strictly cadre units with officer personnel only), and 12 Radio and Rescue Detachments, with a total authorized strength of 10,000 officers and enlisted men.”



This is an interesting little tidbit I happened to run across. I do not want to imply that the people
referred to are in any way related to the topic in question. It's just interesting.



Read the last paragraph on page 3 of this FBI Miami Field Office letterhead memo.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=136328#relPageId=1&tab=page



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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 6:30 am

The Monroe News-Star from Monroe, Louisiana · Page 13
March 15, 1954
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/90445615/
 
George L. Whitmeyer, whose wife, Frances Whitmeyer, resides here at 217 Pargoud Drive, has recently completed a 17-week Associate Infantry Office Advanced Course in Fort Benning, Ga., which is given to company and field grade officers to enable them to return to their units with a more thorough understanding of their command positions. Whitmeyer, in service for 12 years, has served in Hawaii, Europe, Korea, and Japan, and been awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart and the Combat Infantry Badge.
 
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 8:30 pm



Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 8:51 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:
Lately, I'm beginning to suspect that this 488th and Whitmeyer and Crichton might be buried in the Texas Military Department and the National Guard.
In various places, George L. Whitmeyer has been identified as:
deputy East Texas sector commander
East Texas Section Commander of the Army Reserve
U.S. Army, Dallas Sub-section Commander.


I would contend that there is no such thing.


If you do a google search, using these search terms, the only place you find entries for this search
string is in reference to the JFK assassination. These designations just don't fit in the official military chain of command.

I AGREE IT BUGGED ME TOO!


Read the last paragraph on page 3 of this FBI Miami Field Office letterhead memo.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=136328#relPageId=1&tab=page



Steve Thomas
Page 3



Steve, here is the un-redacted text,


On July 11, 1963, MM T-1 advised that HEMMING
left Miami on July 3, 1963, and arrived in Dallas on July 4, 1963, where he
conferred with General Edwin A. Walker who would not back any specific
cause as he wanted to remain free to fight communism all over the United
States. Following this meeting HEMMING then met with Lester Logue,
geologist and oil man at the firm's office, 628 Meadows Building, Dallas,
Texas. Logue told him that he had a 6 - 8 (six to eight) man group which is
interested in fighting against communism but that he, Logue, could not
participate as he couldn't afford to offend U.S. Government officials. Logue
further states that he was working with a major in the United States Army
Reserve, both of whom were do for future promotion and that shortly they
would be attending an intelligence briefing in Washington, D.C. and that
when they returned and briefed Logue they would then be in a position to
help HEMMING in some way. Logue said that he would visit Miami,
Florida, in about 10 days and set up an intelligence unit, send some men
to handle the funds and also personally see some people about donating
boats to HEMMING'S anti-Castro movement in Miami. Martin J. Daly.

Cheers, Ed


Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 8:57 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : freaking emiticons....)
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 10:14 pm

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Thu 26 Jan 2017, 2:31 am

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
Steve, here is the un-redacted text,


Logue
further states that he was working with a major in the United States Army
Reserve, both of whom were do for future promotion
Cheers, Ed
Ed,

Thank you.

There's another version of that unredacted memo that you can find here:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=44539&search=lester_logue#relPageId=1&tab=page
It says that Logue meeting with a Colonel and a Major.

I looked at that Lubbock Avalanche Journal article (what little is on that web site)
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/6092576/

It says that "Colonel" Crichton was award the Legion of Merit by another Colonel (whose name is garbled)
of the VIII Army Corps. I did a little reading about the VIII Army Corps. It was de-activated in 1945, but then almost immediately re-activated for the next 20 years at part of the "organized reserves".

In this Legion of Merit page,
https://books.google.com/books?id=ibtADE8gMeoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=%22Legion+of+Merit%22+Crichton&source=bl&ots=UsV17DJRk7&sig=sw-DLTVYZL9P6SKEfsWpeLEhvEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJruvqzcvRAhXKw1QKHbOTD2IQ6AEINzAF#v=onepage&q=%22Legion%20of%20Merit%22%20Crichton&f=false

It says that Crichton was discharged as a Major, then served stayed in the Reserves as a Commander of a CIC Detachment, then as a commander of a Strategic Intelligence Unit.
Strategic Intelligence Units were a bona fide unit of the Army's Counter Intelligence Corps, so I'm not sure that that Legion of Merit page has it completely right.

So many Colonels:
Jack Crichton
George Whitmeyer
Lester Logue (Hemming and Loren Hall )
Robert Castorr (Lucille Connell and Father McChann)

I've read that these reserve units were top heavy, I'm beginning to believe it.

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Steve Thomas on Sat 28 Jan 2017, 10:21 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
Ed,

The more I look at this, the angrier I get. It's just totally bogus.
Lubbock Avalanche-Journal from Lubbock, Texas · December 5, 1967 Page 16
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/6092576/

What little is in that abstract reads:
DALLAS (API — Col. Jack A.:, Crichton. commanding officer of) the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment, was awarded the Legion of Merit Monday night on' his retirement from the Army- Reserve after 30 years of service. The medal was presented in a ceremony by Col. Robert D. Of-; fer, commander of the VIII U.S. , Army Corps at Austin. An oil man and petroleum consultant, Crichton organized his Reserve unit in 1956 and has been its only commander. The award cited him for "exceptionally outstanding service" as commander and for the preparation of a series of military intelligence studies.  (the name of the awarding colonel is garbled in the OCR rendering).

When did you ever hear of an Army Corps being commanded by a Colonel?

Just two years earlier, there is this article in the Hood County News:

Hood County News-Tablet from Granbury, Texas · Page 8
July 8, 1965

Gets Texas National Guard Commission Gary T. Grogan of Rising Star, technician with the local Soil Conservation Service office, received his commission as a second lieutenant in the Texas N'ational Guard in ceremonies at the Municipal'. Auditorium in Austin Saturday evening, June 1). He was awarded his commission at the conclusion of a Texas Officer Candidate School which he attended at Camp Mabry, Texas. He was assigned to the 1st Bn,. 142nd Inf., Brown-wood, Texas, as battalion antitank platoon leader. Presentation of the diplomas was made by Maj. Gen. Thomas S. Bishop, Texas adjutant-general, Major. Gen: .. William. R. Calhoun commanding , general of the Eighth U.S. Army Corps, was the speaker for the evening. Lt. Grogan was a 1957 graduate of Lipan High School and received his BS degree from Texas Tech in 1961. His parents, Mr. and Mrs. T. G. Grogan, live at...”


And this from the Dallas Morning News:
DMN 11-16-1965
10 Dallas reserve Units Included In Inactivation
By Gene Ormsby
Fourteen Army Reserve units in Dallas, including 10 in the 90th Infantry Division,
are scheduled to be inactivated immediately, Major Gen. William R. Calhoun

commander of the Eighth U.S. Army Corps said Monday in Austin.


A Major General as a Commander of a Corps, I can believe. A Colonel, I can't. 




I am having a hard time trying to reconcile these dates:


http://spartacus-educational.com/MDcrichton.htm     (and from Wikipedia, which is just a repeat of the Sparacus entry) 
In 1956 Crichton started up his own spy unit, the 488th Military Intelligence Detachment. Crichton served as the unit's commander under Lieutenant Colonel George Whitmeyer, who was in overall command of all Army Reserve units in East Texas. In an interview Crichton claimed that there were "about a hundred men in that unit and about forty or fifty of them were from the Dallas Police Department."


The Monroe News-Star from Monroe, Louisiana · Page 3
October 23, 1956
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/84343273/


William F. Pipes, Jr. right, was promoted from first lieutenant to captain in the U. S. Army Reserves at ceremonies Monday night at the USAR training center, Selman Field. Looking on as Capt. Pipes reads his new commission is Major George L. Whitmeyer, unit advisor. (Staff photo by John I. Fogleman.)


OBITUARY of Frances Whitmeyer:

Whitmeyer, Frances Raby was born February 21, 1922 and passed away April 4, 2009. Frances was born in Athens, Alabama to S.W. and Donna Raby. She graduated from Alabama Women's College in Athens. She moved to New Orleans and worked for the Lykes Steamship Co. and also for the City of New Orleans helping to translate French law into English. She later married George Whitmeyer and they moved to Germany where he was stationed after the war. They moved to Fort Worth in 1961 and then to Dallas in 1963.

So, in 1956, Crichton starts his "own spy unit" serving under a Lt. Colonel Whitmeyer, who is actually a Major in the Reserves in Louisiana, who moves from LA to Germany and moves to Fort Worth in 1961, and to Dallas in 1963.
This Whitmeyer, who Winston Lawson told the HSCA in 1978 was a Lieutenant-Colonel who "taught Army intelligence".

How does a "Colonel" Crichton serve under a "Lieutenant-Colonel" Whitmeyer?

And Crichton becomes a Colonel by 1967 where is is awarded a Legion of Merit by another "Colonel" who commands an entire Army Corps.

The whole thing just stinks to high heaven.

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 12:31 am

Steve,

I went through the rank via mainly newspapers articles,

It is smelly,

Whitmeyer was a Capt. in '54, Major 55-60 where I could no longer find any more Major Whitmeyer stories.

You struck gold here Steve!

Bravo, ED!

PS
Whitmeyer's Father died in NJ and was John H.
Whitmeyer's son is Glen born 1958, Class of 1976 Highland Park Dallas

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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 12:50 am

Well hmm.... I thought George Jr was born in '55 ...more wrong dates. Okay its '54 for Jr birth.

SIX - MONROE (LA.) NEWS-STAR JUNE 4, 1954 this city The grandparents are Mr and Mrs. S. W. Raby of Monroe and Mi. and Mrs. John H. Whitmeyer of Roselle Park, N.J



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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 12:53 am

Capt. Whitmeyer Succeeding Kueth Appointed Advisor Capt. George L. Whitmeyer. 217 Pargoud Drive Monroe, has been appointed to succeed Major Francis Kueth as Army Advisor for the U. S Army Reserve unith at Selman Field, it was announced yesterday. Major Kueth is leaving for the Far East on March 15. A native of New Jersey, Capt. Whitmeyer entered the army as an enlisted man in 1941. and served ¡with the Twnty-seventh Division, in Hawaii, until 1943, when he was commissioned at the Infantry School, Ft. Bennings, Ga. I In 1944, Whitmeyer was sent to Europe, where he was assigned to the Eightv-third Division. He served with that organization from the landing on the beaches at Norjmandv, until the end of the war. While serving in Europe Whitmeyer was awarded the silver star, bronze star, and purple heart. | Capt, Whitmeyer married Miss Frances Raby. Monroe, in 1949, and made his home here. While in Monroe he was a member of a local reserve unit. He was a member of that unit when it was recalled to active duty in 1950. From Monroe Capt. Whitmeyer ; was sent to Camp Chaffee, Ark., and the following year was transferred to Indiantown Gap, Pa. He !was sent from Indiantown Gap to Korea, where he served from October 1951 to June 1952, when he was reassigned to Tokyo, Japan. ¡Mrs. Whitmeyer joined him there a short time later. ! The Whitmeyers returned to this country in October 1953

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/89136073/
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Re: The 488 Military Intelligence Detachment (for Steve T)

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 1:14 am

George L Whitmeyer died April 18 1978 in Texas

BK says there is a newspaper with "Whitmeyer found dead" as the headline of an article.
I haven't spotted this or his obit.

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