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Why did Oswald stick around?

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Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Steve Thomas on Fri 03 Feb 2017, 9:02 pm

In the combined after-action report submitted by Batcheor, Lumpkin and Stevenson, Lumpkin wrote that Lieutenant Kaminski was placed at the front door with Roy Truly, and that, as each employee left, Kaminski got their name, address and telephone number, and Truly verified that they worked there.
See DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10, pp. 22-23.

In his Report on Oswald's Interrogations in Appendix XI of the WR, Harry Holmes wrote of the Interrogation on the 24th, that Oswald said that as he was leaving the TSBD, he was stopped by a policeman who took his identification. “and his boss stated that he is one of our employees.”
Meaning that, according to Oswald at least, Truly was there. The policeman asked him to step aside momentarily.
WR Appendix XI, p. 636
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=660&tab=page

According to the Dallas Dispatch Tapes, at 12:49 PM, Captain Talbert radios in and informs Dispatch that “15's in charge down here. Correction, 5's (Dept. Chief G.L. Lumpkin) in charge.”
Between 12:55 and 1:00 PM, 15 radios in and say, “Think 5 and 9 (Lumpkin and Sawyer) both are in the building.”

According to the official story, Oswald immediately fled the scene of the president's shooting, and according to Truly, went "missing."

My question is, why did he stick around?

Steve Thomas

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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by greg parker on Fri 03 Feb 2017, 9:38 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:In the combined after-action report submitted by Batcheor, Lumpkin and Stevenson, Lumpkin wrote that Lieutenant Kaminski was placed at the front door with Roy Truly, and that, as each employee left, Kaminski got their name, address and telephone number, and Truly verified that they worked there.
See DPD Archives Box 14, Folder# 4, Item# 10, pp. 22-23.

In his Report on Oswald's Interrogations in Appendix XI of the WR, Harry Holmes wrote of the Interrogation on the 24th, that Oswald said that as he was leaving the TSBD, he was stopped by a policeman who took his identification. “and his boss stated that he is one of our employees.”
Meaning that, according to Oswald at least, Truly was there. The policeman asked him to step aside momentarily.
WR Appendix XI, p. 636
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=946#relPageId=660&tab=page

According to the Dallas Dispatch Tapes, at 12:49 PM, Captain Talbert radios in and informs Dispatch that “15's in charge down here. Correction, 5's (Dept. Chief G.L. Lumpkin) in charge.”
Between 12:55 and 1:00 PM, 15 radios in and say, “Think 5 and 9 (Lumpkin and Sawyer) both are in the building.”

According to the official story, Oswald immediately fled the scene of the president's shooting, and according to Truly, went "missing."

My question is, why did he stick around?

Steve Thomas
Steve, I think it points to his complete lack of involvement. 

No doubt in my mind that Truly released him and then immediately set the cops after him.

We also know that Lovelady was a witness to this. From Jarman's HSCA interview:

"We ran to the front of the building and as we was running out of the building the police stopped us, he told us to come back inside... after we was inside the building after that, I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and come down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us. And, Oswald was coming out the door and [Billy Lovelady] said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building, Billy Lovelady said that Mr. Truly told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs."

Once again though -- time has been compressed and gives the false impression that Oswald's departure was a lot quicker than it was. This has happened because the first part (coming down the stairs from the 2nd floor) is what the cops said Oswald said and probably became "common knowledge". The second part however, was (presumably) directly witnessed by Lovelady - the being stopped part... etc.

There are also first day reports like this one: "During the frantic search for the President's killer, police were posted at exits to the warehouse. Police said a man, whom they identified as Oswald, walked through the door of the warehouse and was stopped by a policeman. Oswald told the policeman that 'I work here' and when another employee confirmed that he did, the policeman let Oswald walk away, they said."



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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 03 Feb 2017, 10:27 pm

Perhaps he was waiting for Buell to leave and tried to bum a ride to Oak Cliff to meet and buy shoes for Marina.
Or maybe needed an outside line to make a call.
Whatever the case Kaminski should have been able to tell us...



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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 03 Feb 2017, 10:41 pm

The story is Kaminski arrived too late to take Oswald's info...


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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by greg parker on Fri 03 Feb 2017, 11:13 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Perhaps he was waiting for Buell to leave and tried to bum a ride to Oak Cliff to meet and buy shoes for Marina.
Or maybe needed an outside line to make a call.
Whatever the case Kaminski should have been able to tell us...



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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Steve Thomas on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 8:54 am

Steve Thomas wrote:

My question is, why did he stick around?

Steve Thomas
Harold Weisberg postulated that if Oswald was the shooter, he was giving himself an alibi.
"What?" "Who me?" "Not me." "I've been here all along, and I've got all these witnesses."

I have to admit, I never thought of that.

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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 1:28 pm

Arsonists blend into the crowd to watch the fire though.
Psychologically it depends on motive to run or stay.

"why did he stick around?"
For an alibi?
How'd that work out.

Or the cashier at the theater, Julia Postal, how'd that work out.
All could or should have been...alibis?

His friend Frazier waits fifty years to mention he sees him walking out the rear of the building into the crowd. Or possibly saw PM. Alibi anyone?

Everyone on the back stairwell, from Otis climbing to Adams/Styles descending, even Mrs. Garner did not in the absence of Lee make an alibi.

Carolyn Arnold (Johnston) took a giant dump on Lee's alibi.

Roy Truly not only nullified Lee's alibi he set the cops at his heels.

Did it matter Oswald didn't kill anyone?

No.
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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Steve Thomas on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 11:32 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:
According to the official story, Oswald immediately fled the scene of the president's shooting, and according to Truly, went "missing."

My question is, why did he stick around?

Steve Thomas
This video was provided by Bill Kelley on the Education Forum back in 2013.

Look at the 5:17 - 5:30 mark.

That sure looks like Oswald to me.

What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RRE

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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Terry W. Martin on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 1:35 am

Steve Thomas wrote:
Steve Thomas wrote:
According to the official story, Oswald immediately fled the scene of the president's shooting, and according to Truly, went "missing."

My question is, why did he stick around?

Steve Thomas
This video was provided by Bill Kelley on the Education Forum back in 2013.

Look at the 5:17 - 5:30 mark.

That sure looks like Oswald to me.

What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RRE

Steve Thomas

You're right, Steve, it does sort of look like LHO. At first I thought it was a guy with a suit jacket and white shirt but after a couple times through, it looked more like Oswald.

But then these old eyes are not the best for deciphering photo evidence.
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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by barto on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 8:58 am

It ain't him.

And regarding Oswald staying there longer than has been thought is simple, he was not allowed to go that quick simple as that. Only after the gaff was semi secured at the front was some name taking setup before they could leave.
It also ties in with Roger Craig's story.

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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:25 am

barto wrote:It ain't him.

And regarding Oswald staying there longer than has been thought is simple, he was not allowed to go that quick simple as that. Only after the gaff was semi secured at the front was some name taking setup before they could leave.
It also ties in with Roger Craig's story.
I believe Craig's story. Oswald hung around and then was picked up and taken to the movie theatre.
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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Mick Purdy on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 11:02 am

I believe Craig's story. Oswald hung around and then was picked up and taken to the movie theatre.




I believe you may be right Paul. I'm revisiting this topic now. You've always said that you believed Craig and the Oswald leaving story.


Where was Ruth Paine at that time I wonder?
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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 9:19 am

Where was Ruth Paine at that time I wonder?

Solid alibi Mick..

She was tutoring the Shasteen Barbershop quartet in Russian,
whilst:
making a bag up for Lee's new apartment,
having just sent out Lee's tent poles and shovel for cleaning, which she had previously wrapped in a soft blanket she had washed, did some last minute photo album work, adjusted her calendar, tidied up her cuban files, and was expecting the police any minute.
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Re: Why did Oswald stick around?

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 10:50 am

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Where was Ruth Paine at that time I wonder?

Solid alibi Mick..

She was tutoring the Shasteen Barbershop quartet in Russian,
whilst:
making a bag up for Lee's new apartment,
having just sent out Lee's tent poles and shovel for cleaning, which she had previously wrapped in a soft blanket she had washed, did some last minute photo album work, adjusted her calendar, tidied up her cuban files, and was expecting the police any minute.
Stop it Ed,

I have hot coffee in my mouth while reading this, now I can't see my computer screen anymore.
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