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Jersey

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Re: Jersey

Post by greg parker on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 9:42 am

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Thanks my friend!

Good news!!!
I spoke to Peggy.

I will write something up and amaze you more.


Cheers, Ed
I just hope you cut her some slack and weren't too hard on her about the lack of hyphenation.  Smile

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Jersey

Post by Jake Sykes on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 11:12 am

You're amazing Ed. What progress in no time at all.
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Re: Jersey

Post by greg parker on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 11:29 am

Jake Sykes wrote:You're amazing Ed. What progress in no time at all.
He is a dervish when he gets going.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
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greg parker
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Posts : 4520
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 2:21 pm

Bibler family in Arkansas, and their importance to the regions lumber industry.

History of the Bibler family in Arkansas:

David Albert Bibler was born Nov. 30, 1883 in Scottsville
Pope County Arkansas, USA and passed away there in Oct. 11, 1932

David Albert Bibler was the son of James Harvey Bibler and Elizabeth Jane Wallace.
James Harvey Bibler was born on    Mar. 21, 1841
Hancock County Ohio.
He passed away on Oct. 17, 1905 in Dayton, Montgomery County Ohio.

James Harvey Bibler was the son of John Harvey Bibler and Catherine Battenfield.
He served as a Private in Company "I" of the 41st Illinois Infantry Regiment, Union during the Civil War. He was married five times.

His first wife was Mary Ruthanne Morgan. They were married on September 25, 1864 in Hancock, Ohio. They had three children:
Emma Jane Bibler VanSchoik, 1865-1953
Ida A. Bibler, 1870-1871
Benjamin J. Bibler, 1872-1872

After Mary Ruthanne Morgan died, James Harvey Bibler came to Arkansas where he married Sarah Ann Bullock on January 28, 1875 in Johnson, Arkansas. Their only child was John Jefferson Bibler, 1878-1946. John Jefferson Bibler lived his adult life in Indianapolis, Indiana where he and his wife both practiced Chiropractic Medicine.

After Sarah Ann died in 1881, James Harvey Bibler came to Pope County, Arkansas working as a Blacksmith and married a third time to Elizabeth Jane "Aliza" Wallace McCain on February 21, 1882 in Pope, Arkansas. She was the widow of James McCain and she had a son, John McCain, from that previous marriage. James Harvey and "Aliza" had two children of their own:
David Albert Bibler, 1882-1932
Myrtle Ann Bibler, 1888-1899

After "Aliza" died in 1890, James Harvey Bibler married for a fourth time to Lida Alon Kennedy on September 10, 1891 in Pope Arkansas ( Page 549 by Joseph Phillips ). The family moved back to Ohio and Lida died in Ohio in 1894. Lida and James had no children.

His fifth wife was Barbara Ellen Swinehart Hoy. She was previously married to Eli Hoy on April 5, 1892 in Hancock, Ohio ( License # 108, Page 335. By Rev. J. A. Swinehart ). Barbara and Eli had one child, W. J. B. Hoy who was born in 1899. Eli Hoy died in 1902 and his widow, Barbara Ellen Swinehart Hoy married James Harvey Bibler on June 13, 1903 in Hancock, Ohio ( Certificate No. 616 by M. D. Sours, Justice of the Peace ).

David Albert Bibler returned to Arkansas when he was 13 years old in 1896.
On September 3, 1907 in Pope, Arkansas, he married Alida Bell Johnson, the daughter of Marion Henry Johnson and Martha Carolyn Gilbreath.
They had four children:

Odus Bibler, 1908-1980
Glenn Harrold Bibler, 1910-1985
Ewing Bibler, 1912-1975
Gladys Mildred Bibler (Dean), 1917-2007

In 1908, D.A. Bibler started a steam driven sawmill on Lee Mountain north of Dover.
Around 1914, he started operation of a mill in Perry County, Arkansas for about 4 years.
In 1918, he bought Bob Young's mill at Broomfield and moved his family there.
The mill was moved from Broomfield to Scottsville in 1927 and was operated there by David Albert and his sons until David Albert died in 1932. The mill moved to Russellville and operated as Bibler Brothers, until moving to another larger location and eventually was bought by International Paper Company.

Records show David Albert Bibler founded the company in 1909 and later moved the sawmill to Scottsville where it was in operation until the family bought the Arkmo Lumber Company holdings in Russellville.

In 1935, after the death of its founder, the company changed names, and became Bibler Bros. Lumber Company to reflect the company's transfer to David Albert Bibler's sons.

In 1960, Bibler Bros. bought 40 acres of land and soon began construction at what is the current business site, removing itself from the retail operation.

In 1969, a fire destroyed the company's largest sawmill. The brothers rebuilt it, putting in cutting-edge, modern equipment.

In 1973, the company merged with a Wisconsin paper company, and then bought out the paper company 13 years later.

Terry Freeman, through a log purchase sales agreement, bought the company from James Bibler — David Albert's grandson — in 1998

James Bibler began his career in 1955 in the family lumber business starting at the very bottom as a lumber stacker then continued on as a yard foreman.
From there, he worked in the planer mill production, sawmill production, sales, and log procurement. In 1967 at the age of 33, Bibler assumed management of the mill. In 1973, Bibler Bros. became a division of Great Northern Nekoosa. Bibler served as Division Vice President and General Manager for 11 years before being named Nekoosa’s Southern Division Public Affairs Director. In 1985, he retired form Nekoosa Papers, Inc. In 1985, Bibler became the Vice President-General Manager of Satterfield Lumber Company and then a Consultant for Satterfield Lumber Company.
He also became a land developer and developed two large residential areas in Russellville, AR.
In 1986 he renovated the entire mill, bringing it back on line with some of the first ever state-of-the-art equipment to be used in the timber industry. This renovation resulted in a lumber grade increase, increase in productivity, a higher than ever achieved utilization of the log which in turn let the way to a significant jump in recovery. In 1990, Bibler continued to upgrade equipment and the building of a new facility. In 1998, he sold 90% of the company to Freeman Bros. Inc. which still operates under the name of Bibler Bros., Lumber Company.

Appointed by Governor David Pryor to the Arkansas Forestry Commission in 1978 and named chairman in 1984. Reappointed by Governor Bill Clinton;
President of Arkansas Forestry Association then served on the Executive Board from 1983-1985; President Southern Forest Products Association 1983-1984; Chairman of the Board of Southern Forest Products Association 1984-1985; Vice Chairman Public Timber Division, National Forest Purchasers Council 1983-1985; Member of the Region 8 Forest Service Timber Purchasers Council 1983-1985; Chairman of the Ouachita Timber Purchasers Group 1990-present; Board of Directors Southern Pine Inspection Bureau 1995-present; President, Russellville Junior Chamber of Commerce 1971-1972; State Vice President, Arkansas Junior Chamber of Commerce 1973-1974; President of Russellville Chamber of Commerce 1976-1977; President, Russellville Jaycees 1971-1972; Past member of Russellville Industrial Development Commission (RIDC); Russellville Municipal Airport Commission 1975-1990; Served on the United Way Pillow Club; Member, State Small Business Administration Advisory Board 1971-1973; Arkansas Tech university School of Business Advisory Board 1999-2004; Board of Directors Alexander Energy Corporation of Oklahoma City, OK. 1982-1987; Board of Directors of Peoples Bank and Trust, Worthen, Boatman’s 1973-1997; Board of Directors of River Valley Bank 1997-2003; Served on the Russellville City Corporation Board of Directors; Served on United Way Pillar Club; Member of Ducks Unlimited; Member of Quail Unlimited; Member of First Free Will Baptist Church, Russellville, AR
James Bibler is still very active in the lumber business.
He was named Man of Year in 1991 by the Forest Products Industry.

Peggy Bibler worked at Bibler Bros. Lumber Co. with James Bibler.

Peggy Bibler was born in 1935 and was kind enough to speak to me about her family history.
She is the daughter of Ewing Bibler and Irene (Eulla Belle) Danley.

She is also a living witness to history.

She related to me she was living in Mesquite Texas in 1963 and her husband worked as a textbook salesman for Mr. Wilson at Allyn and Bacon in Dallas at the Texas School Book Depository. She had driven to Dallas for the first time alone. She had planned to watch the President from her husbands office windows on the third floor of the TSBD.
She was up there and decided since the sidewalk was empty to take up a spot directly out front of the TSBD as she knew the motorcade would pass in front of her and her son only 4 years old John Benjamin Hawkins. They watched as the limo was 10 -15 feet away the shots rang out.
She knew gunshots having grown up around them.
She did not think they came from the TSBD.
She saw the president slump and that was indicative that he had been hit.
She instinctively took her son behind the retaining wall for safety.
Then she was listening and heard a radio report from the policeman's motorcycle at the curb.
The report was of a nature that she felt it safe to go inside the TSBD.
She felt it was a report calling for police to search Railroad yards.
So she went in the TSBD and was locked in for around an hour before having to sign out, so to speak, or give her name and address. The police came and got her statement later.
She doesn't recall having to show id just stated her details for the police officer.
She was let go after about an hour in which time she would she police going passed the doorway and when she stuck her head out she would she heavily armed police about.

Peggy is a smart lady and was educated as a Masters Business Education from University Central Arkansas, Conway Arkansas and has a Bachelors degree from Arkansas Tech University and is qualified in library science.
She at 82 is very sharp, though she claims to be hard of hearing and doesn't remember every detail like she thinks she should.
I enjoyed talking with her about my family in Arkansas. My aunt and uncle whom worked in Tennessee moving to Arkansas to retire and run the Hot Springs Arkansas shops.
Of note we spoke about my brothers and their family running tree farms in Arkansas near her.
Peggy and I through our families have ties to the same industries in Arkansas.
She was almost a 1/4 owner of Bibler Bros. a lumber operation that bought the timber, cut it, worked the timber, milled it, and sold the finished lumber, then delivered it.
A lot of effort, bookkeeping, accounting and work just keeping track of operations.  

Russellville Arkansas is the county seat and largest city in Pope County, Arkansas , with a population of 27,920, according to the 2010 Census. It is home to Arkansas Tech University and Arkansas Nuclear One, Arkansas' only nuclear power plant.
I told her my aunt and uncle whom worked on the Manhattan Project as a nuclear chemist, Ira Whitney, had done chemistry for the bomb at Oak Ridge Tennessee. They retired to Hot Springs Arkansas just over the mountain from Peggy and Russellville.

Peggy said she did not think Lee Oswald shot from the TSBD.
She doesn't know where or how many shots were fired but she does know what she heard and did.
Going back into the TSBD being vivid in her mind with her son as that was a safe place where she felt shots had not come from. Of course later that is exactly what she was told happened.

Her husband sold text books and traveled around the state sometimes out of state for business
and he knew Lee Oswald. Knew him by name, and face. John liked to know everyone's names. He said Lee would load his car with books for his sale routes.
Lee was a nice employee according to Peggy.

Peggy was the closest to the president when the shots happened. 10-15 feet
Standing on Elm sidewalk next to the curb.
She saw JFK fall into Jackie's lap.
She knew he was shot, she took son backwards towards the TSBD and got behind a abutment.
She said they would claim that was location of the shot.
She did not see any shots hit anyone but Kennedy before she reacted.
She said she was standing at the very end of the line of the people.
She said she saw the pictures and warren report, wasn't holding son, she thought he was standing beside her.
Only thing she knows about policeman was the motorcycle was parked in front of TSBD and she paused by motorcycle and heard the report which she felt safe to enter the TSBD.
She agreed the report was likely about railroad and didn't mention the TSBD and felt safe to re-enter.
She was trapped and locked in the TSBD. Saw from the office police well armed searching the building.
She understands policeman, as her son John Benjamin became a city policeman for Russellville.
Son doesn't recall the event, as he was too young to have an impression.
Its been a lot of years but she tells her brush with history like it happened yesterday

She said if Oswald wasn't working at the TSBD it could have happened any where along the parade as all the large buildings had unlocked attics.
It just happened, she says, that Lee worked there at the TSBD, and they claimed that was the location where shot had came from.
Peggy was raised a Baptist and went to an interdenominational church as it was small did not have a resident preacher, but had visiting preachers of all denominations speaking there.

Peggy was very gracious and I hope she likes the article.

Cheers, Ed Ledoux
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Re: Jersey

Post by greg parker on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 2:49 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Bibler family in Arkansas, and their importance to the regions lumber industry.

History of the Bibler family in Arkansas:

David Albert Bibler was born Nov. 30, 1883 in Scottsville
Pope County Arkansas, USA and passed away there in Oct. 11, 1932

David Albert Bibler was the son of James Harvey Bibler and Elizabeth Jane Wallace.
James Harvey Bibler was born on    Mar. 21, 1841
Hancock County Ohio.
He passed away on Oct. 17, 1905 in Dayton, Montgomery County Ohio.

James Harvey Bibler was the son of John Harvey Bibler and Catherine Battenfield.
He served as a Private in Company "I" of the 41st Illinois Infantry Regiment, Union during the Civil War. He was married five times.

His first wife was Mary Ruthanne Morgan. They were married on September 25, 1864 in Hancock, Ohio. They had three children:
Emma Jane Bibler VanSchoik, 1865-1953
Ida A. Bibler, 1870-1871
Benjamin J. Bibler, 1872-1872

After Mary Ruthanne Morgan died, James Harvey Bibler came to Arkansas where he married Sarah Ann Bullock on January 28, 1875 in Johnson, Arkansas. Their only child was John Jefferson Bibler, 1878-1946. John Jefferson Bibler lived his adult life in Indianapolis, Indiana where he and his wife both practiced Chiropractic Medicine.

After Sarah Ann died in 1881, James Harvey Bibler came to Pope County, Arkansas working as a Blacksmith and married a third time to Elizabeth Jane "Aliza" Wallace McCain on February 21, 1882 in Pope, Arkansas. She was the widow of James McCain and she had a son, John McCain, from that previous marriage. James Harvey and "Aliza" had two children of their own:
David Albert Bibler, 1882-1932
Myrtle Ann Bibler, 1888-1899

After "Aliza" died in 1890, James Harvey Bibler married for a fourth time to Lida Alon Kennedy on September 10, 1891 in Pope Arkansas ( Page 549 by Joseph Phillips ). The family moved back to Ohio and Lida died in Ohio in 1894. Lida and James had no children.

His fifth wife was Barbara Ellen Swinehart Hoy. She was previously married to Eli Hoy on April 5, 1892 in Hancock, Ohio ( License # 108, Page 335. By Rev. J. A. Swinehart ). Barbara and Eli had one child, W. J. B. Hoy who was born in 1899. Eli Hoy died in 1902 and his widow, Barbara Ellen Swinehart Hoy married James Harvey Bibler on June 13, 1903 in Hancock, Ohio ( Certificate No. 616 by M. D. Sours, Justice of the Peace ).

David Albert Bibler returned to Arkansas when he was 13 years old in 1896.
On September 3, 1907 in Pope, Arkansas, he married Alida Bell Johnson, the daughter of Marion Henry Johnson and Martha Carolyn Gilbreath.
They had four children:

Odus Bibler, 1908-1980
Glenn Harrold Bibler, 1910-1985
Ewing Bibler, 1912-1975
Gladys Mildred Bibler (Dean), 1917-2007

In 1908, D.A. Bibler started a steam driven sawmill on Lee Mountain north of Dover.
Around 1914, he started operation of a mill in Perry County, Arkansas for about 4 years.
In 1918, he bought Bob Young's mill at Broomfield and moved his family there.
The mill was moved from Broomfield to Scottsville in 1927 and was operated there by David Albert and his sons until David Albert died in 1932. The mill moved to Russellville and operated as Bibler Brothers, until moving to another larger location and eventually was bought by International Paper Company.

Records show David Albert Bibler founded the company in 1909 and later moved the sawmill to Scottsville where it was in operation until the family bought the Arkmo Lumber Company holdings in Russellville.

In 1935, after the death of its founder, the company changed names, and became Bibler Bros. Lumber Company to reflect the company's transfer to David Albert Bibler's sons.

In 1960, Bibler Bros. bought 40 acres of land and soon began construction at what is the current business site, removing itself from the retail operation.

In 1969, a fire destroyed the company's largest sawmill. The brothers rebuilt it, putting in cutting-edge, modern equipment.

In 1973, the company merged with a Wisconsin paper company, and then bought out the paper company 13 years later.

Terry Freeman, through a log purchase sales agreement, bought the company from James Bibler — David Albert's grandson — in 1998

James Bibler began his career in 1955 in the family lumber business starting at the very bottom as a lumber stacker then continued on as a yard foreman.
From there, he worked in the planer mill production, sawmill production, sales, and log procurement. In 1967 at the age of 33, Bibler assumed management of the mill. In 1973, Bibler Bros. became a division of Great Northern Nekoosa. Bibler served as Division Vice President and General Manager for 11 years before being named Nekoosa’s Southern Division Public Affairs Director. In 1985, he retired form Nekoosa Papers, Inc. In 1985, Bibler became the Vice President-General Manager of Satterfield Lumber Company and then a Consultant for Satterfield Lumber Company.
He also became a land developer and developed two large residential areas in Russellville, AR.
In 1986 he renovated the entire mill, bringing it back on line with some of the first ever state-of-the-art equipment to be used in the timber industry. This renovation resulted in a lumber grade increase, increase in productivity, a higher than ever achieved utilization of the log which in turn let the way to a significant jump in recovery. In 1990, Bibler continued to upgrade equipment and the building of a new facility. In 1998, he sold 90% of the company to Freeman Bros. Inc. which still operates under the name of Bibler Bros., Lumber Company.

Appointed by Governor David Pryor to the Arkansas Forestry Commission in 1978 and named chairman in 1984. Reappointed by Governor Bill Clinton;
President of Arkansas Forestry Association then served on the Executive Board from 1983-1985; President Southern Forest Products Association 1983-1984; Chairman of the Board of Southern Forest Products Association 1984-1985; Vice Chairman Public Timber Division, National Forest Purchasers Council 1983-1985; Member of the Region 8 Forest Service Timber Purchasers Council 1983-1985; Chairman of the Ouachita Timber Purchasers Group 1990-present; Board of Directors Southern Pine Inspection Bureau 1995-present; President, Russellville Junior Chamber of Commerce 1971-1972; State Vice President, Arkansas Junior Chamber of Commerce 1973-1974; President of Russellville Chamber of Commerce 1976-1977; President, Russellville Jaycees 1971-1972; Past member of Russellville Industrial Development Commission (RIDC); Russellville Municipal Airport Commission 1975-1990; Served on the United Way Pillow Club; Member, State Small Business Administration Advisory Board 1971-1973; Arkansas Tech university School of Business Advisory Board 1999-2004; Board of Directors Alexander Energy Corporation of Oklahoma City, OK. 1982-1987; Board of Directors of Peoples Bank and Trust, Worthen, Boatman’s 1973-1997; Board of Directors of River Valley Bank 1997-2003; Served on the Russellville City Corporation Board of Directors; Served on United Way Pillar Club; Member of Ducks Unlimited; Member of Quail Unlimited; Member of First Free Will Baptist Church, Russellville, AR
James Bibler is still very active in the lumber business.
He was named Man of Year in 1991 by the Forest Products Industry.

Peggy Bibler worked at Bibler Bros. Lumber Co. with James Bibler.

Peggy Bibler was born in 1935 and was kind enough to speak to me about her family history.
She is the daughter of Ewing Bibler and Irene (Eulla Belle) Danley.

She is also a living witness to history.

She related to me she was living in Mesquite Texas in 1963 and her husband worked as a textbook salesman for Mr. Wilson at Allyn and Bacon in Dallas at the Texas School Book Depository. She had driven to Dallas for the first time alone. She had planned to watch the President from her husbands office windows on the third floor of the TSBD.
She was up there and decided since the sidewalk was empty to take up a spot directly out front of the TSBD as she knew the motorcade would pass in front of her and her son only 4 years old John Benjamin Hawkins. They watched as the limo was 10 -15 feet away the shots rang out.
She knew gunshots having grown up around them.
She did not think they came from the TSBD.
She saw the president slump and that was indicative that he had been hit.
She instinctively took her son behind the retaining wall for safety.
Then she was listening and heard a radio report from the policeman's motorcycle at the curb.
The report was of a nature that she felt it safe to go inside the TSBD.
She felt it was a report calling for police to search Railroad yards.
So she went in the TSBD and was locked in for around an hour before having to sign out, so to speak, or give her name and address. The police came and got her statement later.
She doesn't recall having to show id just stated her details for the police officer.
She was let go after about an hour in which time she would she police going passed the doorway and when she stuck her head out she would she heavily armed police about.

Peggy is a smart lady and was educated as a Masters Business Education from University Central Arkansas, Conway Arkansas and has a Bachelors degree from Arkansas Tech University and is qualified in library science.
She at 82 is very sharp, though she claims to be hard of hearing and doesn't remember every detail like she thinks she should.
I enjoyed talking with her about my family in Arkansas. My aunt and uncle whom worked in Tennessee moving to Arkansas to retire and run the Hot Springs Arkansas shops.
Of note we spoke about my brothers and their family running tree farms in Arkansas near her.
Peggy and I through our families have ties to the same industries in Arkansas.
She was almost a 1/4 owner of Bibler Bros. a lumber operation that bought the timber, cut it, worked the timber, milled it, and sold the finished lumber, then delivered it.
A lot of effort, bookkeeping, accounting and work just keeping track of operations.  

Russellville Arkansas is the county seat and largest city in Pope County, Arkansas , with a population of 27,920, according to the 2010 Census. It is home to Arkansas Tech University and Arkansas Nuclear One, Arkansas' only nuclear power plant.
I told her my aunt and uncle whom worked on the Manhattan Project as a nuclear chemist, Ira Whitney, had done chemistry for the bomb at Oak Ridge Tennessee. They retired to Hot Springs Arkansas just over the mountain from Peggy and Russellville.

Peggy said she did not think Lee Oswald shot from the TSBD.
She doesn't know where or how many shots were fired but she does know what she heard and did.
Going back into the TSBD being vivid in her mind with her son as that was a safe place where she felt shots had not come from. Of course later that is exactly what she was told happened.

Her husband sold text books and traveled around the state sometimes out of state for business
and he knew Lee Oswald. Knew him by name, and face. John liked to know everyone's names. He said Lee would load his car with books for his sale routes.
Lee was a nice employee according to Peggy.

Peggy was the closest to the president when the shots happened. 10-15 feet
Standing on Elm sidewalk next to the curb.
She saw JFK fall into Jackie's lap.
She knew he was shot, she took son backwards towards the TSBD and got behind a abutment.
She said they would claim that was location of the shot.
She did not see any shots hit anyone but Kennedy before she reacted.
She said she was standing at the very end of the line of the people.
She said she saw the pictures and warren report, wasn't holding son, she thought he was standing beside her.
Only thing she knows about policeman was the motorcycle was parked in front of TSBD and she paused by motorcycle and heard the report which she felt safe to enter the TSBD.
She agreed the report was likely about railroad and didn't mention the TSBD and felt safe to re-enter.
She was trapped and locked in the TSBD. Saw from the office police well armed searching the building.
She understands policeman, as her son John Benjamin became a city policeman for Russellville.
Son doesn't recall the event, as he was too young to have an impression.
Its been a lot of years but she tells her brush with history like it happened yesterday

She said if Oswald wasn't working at the TSBD it could have happened any where along the parade as all the large buildings had unlocked attics.
It just happened, she says, that Lee worked there at the TSBD, and they claimed that was the location where shot had came from.
Peggy was raised a Baptist and went to an interdenominational church as it was small did not have a resident preacher, but had visiting preachers of all denominations speaking there.

Peggy was very gracious and I hope she likes the article.

Cheers, Ed Ledoux
Nice work and a well told story. Thanks, Ed and thank you Peggy for sharing.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
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greg parker
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Re: Jersey

Post by Mick Purdy on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 2:52 pm

Ed, you are a marvel mate.

I can only watch in awe my good friend. What you have done here is beautiful. 
Peggy sounds awesome, I do like the fact that she remembers Lee fondly. That touches a nerve with me.
I'm after more of that anecdotal material.

Mate you are an absolute legend with this stuff, don't ever stop
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 3:01 pm

greg parker wrote:
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Thanks my friend!

Good news!!!
I spoke to Peggy.

I will write something up and amaze you more.


Cheers, Ed
I just hope you cut her some slack and weren't too hard on her about the lack of hyphenation.  Smile

I decided to skirt the issue

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by barto on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 3:22 pm

Awesome work Ed, just one question the police man (Baker) did she mention anything about this or did you ask her? If she has access to email then I could pass you  a few pix for her to look at......?

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Re: Jersey

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 4:01 pm

Incredible Ed. You've been right all along. No shots from the TSBD
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 4:04 pm

Thank you!

Nice to get to the bottom of a few things for history.

I asked if I could do a follow up Bart.

Lets let some things be a mystery for a little while longer shall we.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by Stan Dane on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 5:29 pm

If Peggy was showed the Darnell image, I wonder what she might say.
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Re: Jersey

Post by greg parker on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 6:08 pm

Ed, could you maybe clear up something for me as well.

The record of her FBI interview of April 1, 1964 states she went there to watch the motorcade with her husband John on the 3rd floor.

But then she goes down to the street to watch with a bunch of his coworkers before eventually returning to the 3rd floor.

John has vanished from the story. No further word on him. More puzzling still is that his name is not on Revill's list and nor was he interviewed by the FBI for CE 1381 where every single employee was supposed to be asked a specific set of questions.

Peggy herself is on Revill's list - at the very bottom of the 2nd page.

What she described is what happened. A bunch of cops went floor to floor taking names and addresses for follow-up interviews. But to get out she needed to flash her ID to Kamisnky. A small thing, maybe done automatically and quickly forgotten.

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Re: Jersey

Post by Jake Sykes on Sat 29 Apr 2017, 11:28 pm

Yep, I'm amazed more! This was exciting to read. Peggy taking us there like this is a rare opportunity and we're lucky she's so smart and with it. She is a remarkable person in her own right and we're fortunate for her opening up to Ed like this. Thanks Peggy. Thanks Ed.

I wonder what it's like to have stood there like that. Absolutely amazing to think about and only possible to appreciate because she is telling her story today.
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 30 Apr 2017, 10:06 am

No worries Jake! She said it isnt everyday you see someone get shot. But she did what she had to do, she said, and moved to safe spot. 

I believe the husband was to meet her there 
As in he was not arrived and she instead went out with the other employees.

I will ask whatever happened that he did not make it and meet her. Good question Greg.

Great idea stan.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by Vinny on Mon 01 May 2017, 11:03 pm

Great detective work,Ed.

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Re: Jersey

Post by The Prodigal Son on Mon 01 May 2017, 11:27 pm

Ed, if you ever have another chat with Peggy, I still have $100 on the guy wearing the hat who is obscured by Peggy and her son in Altgens as being our very own Roy Truly.

Might be nice to know whether she saw him outside during the motorcade.

Great work, as always.
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 02 May 2017, 6:02 am


Is our candidate still there in the same location? Hat and glasses, looks like him????

There is another photo where he is visible, and not obscured by the woman and baby.
I don't recall whom took it.
Can someone please post it.

Thanks, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 02 May 2017, 6:07 am

Vinny wrote:Great detective work,Ed.
Some internet gumshoe work huh Vinny?!!?

Thanks, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 06 May 2017, 7:48 am

Re-interviewed Peggy. Spent twice as long as first interview, re-hashing every detail she could remember.

She claimed she had to sign out of TSBD. She repeated that phrase.
If there is another TSBD employee that said they signed something to exit I'd very much like to know!!

She looked at all the source documents and plaza pics.

She is in none of them.

We still have not located Peggy and Benjamin in the films and photos.

Of note is the people behind the abutment on the grass/knoll, where you see a head pop up. That may be her location.

She then went to the building, she had to walk on Elm Extension as the sidewalk was full of people. She had to make her way around a motorcycle parked right outside the TSBD steps at the curb to get to the steps, and heard the radio report about shots coming from elsewhere than the building and proceeded into the lobby, saw no police, took the elevator to third floor. Knew Ruth Hendrix, and was released with her and the others in the Ally and Bacon office about 1 hour later.
If we have pictures of Ruth leaving the building Peggy would be with her (in that group).


Peggy is an avid reader of books. She started the church library in her town. (She is qualified in Library Science) after attending the Southern Baptists Convention in Little Rock and having two of their church library consultants aide her. This was during the '60's.
(Baptist) Church was built on the land her great grandfather donated to them,
Church was built by the masons and they had the lodge upstairs.
Bylaws stated no paid pastor. So they had 'Holy Rollers' or traveling preachers give a sermons, and were of every denomination.
Thus her work in the library covers a lot of ground too,
I will let her read PM and give it a review.
Who knows, since its non-fiction maybe a spot on the shelf?


She said her husband John Henry Hawkins was going to meet her that day. John was at a black church in south Dallas (college) when news arrived that JFK was shot. Peggy says that community was in hysterics.
They were besides themselves as they saw Kennedy as a civil rights leader and a great hope had been dashed.
John didn't make it out of there in time to meet Peggy.
By the time he arrived at the TSBD it was locked.
He could not gain entry.
He went home and luckily Peggy and son were fine having made it home also.
Peggy says she parked behind the building in the Depository parking area.
She drove a Chevrolet station wagon, 50's probably a Bel Air, color unknown.


Well, that should clear up a few things and cause a few more questions.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Jersey

Post by greg parker on Sat 06 May 2017, 9:09 am

Ace work again, Ed. You have the knack. And she does seem like an extraordinary person.

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Jersey

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Sat 06 May 2017, 12:20 pm

Thanks again, Ed. Brilliant bro.
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Re: Jersey

Post by barto on Sat 06 May 2017, 3:00 pm

Great work m8

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Re: Jersey

Post by barto on Sat 06 May 2017, 5:09 pm

Curry's message was at 12:31
What motor cycle besides Baker's was near the TSBD at that time, let alone in front of the steps....

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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 06 May 2017, 8:08 pm

Harkness comes to mind on a three wheeler
Did he park and go to speak with officers at Houston and Elm, Smith etc.?
He did park on Elm Extension and spoke to Euins.
Then in the DCA footage I see nothing else as far as Police vehicles in front of the TSBD as Harkness carrying Euins tries to make it up the Elm extension.
Here is Harkness with Euins on Elm Ext., sidewalks are packed with people.


Peggy would have had to go around Harkness' trike to get onto Elm Ext.
YES?
And Harkness would not be on the trike whilst speaking to Euins.
Harkness is seen after shooting riding down Main to triple underpass, he is then seen in front of TSBD and then down the Ext. so somewhere in the minute(?) after assassination we have Harkness on the Ext.
Peggy would make her way to the TSBD when the bike is parked but no police cars yet.

Mr. BELIN - When you saw the first shot, what do you mean by that?
Mr. HARKNESS - When I heard the first shot and saw the President's car almost come to a stop and some of the agents piling off the car, I went back to the intersection to get my motorcycle.
Mr. BELIN - You were in the process of doing that when you heard the second and third shots?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Where did the shots sound like they came from?
Mr. HARKNESS - I couldn't tell. They were bouncing off the buildings down there. I couldn't tell.
Mr. BELIN - You mean the reverberations?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do
Mr. HARKNESS - I went west on Main to observe the area between the railroad tracks and Industrial.
Mr. BELIN - Why did you go down there?
Mr. HARKNESS - By the way the people, when I went into this area, everybody was hitting the ground, and someone led us to indicate that the shots were coming into the cars.
Mr. BELIN - You mean from some point in front of the cars?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes.
Mr. BELIN - Do you know who that someone was?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did that person do that indicated that?
Mr. HARKNESS - I don't remember.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you
Mr. HARKNESS - I went down to Industrial to see if I could see anyone fleeing that area.
Mr. BELIN - What did you see?
Mr. HARKNESS - I didn't see anyone, so I come back to the front of the Book Depository and went around to this fence that was across the street from Elm Street.
Mr. BELIN - What do you mean across the street from Elm Street?
Mr. HARKNESS - Again, I will have to--near the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN - Behind the building?
Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir; this area right here. See, Elm Street goes down.
Mr. BELIN - What you are really saying---
Mr. HARKNESS - This area.
Mr. BELIN - You are pointing to a place between what would be the extension of Elm that doesn't go down into the parkway but the actual extension of Elm?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; to the plaza area.
Mr. BELIN - The plaza area?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you find there?
Mr. HARKNESS - I found a little colored boy, Amos Euins, who told me he saw the shots come from that building.

and


Mr. HARKNESS - After I took his name and address and put this information on the radio, I then took him on the back of my three-wheel motorcycle and put him in Inspector Sawyer's car.
Mr. BELIN - Now you mentioned that you put something on the radio here, and I hand you here what has been marked as Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A. Before doing that, do you remember what call number you used, you were using on that day?
Mr. HARKNESS - I believe 260.
Mr. BELIN - Well, I notice here that there is a call with a notation at 12:36 p.m., 260 to 531. 531 is your office in the main station?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What does it say there on that transcript?
Mr. HARKNESS - "Witness says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository store at Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."
Mr. BELIN - All right, that was at 12:36 p.m.?
Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Had the building been sealed off at that time?
Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge. There were several officers around it, but I don't know whether it had been sealed off or not.
Mr. BELIN - In the process of sealing off the building, what did you do?
Mr. HARKNESS - Asked for a squad.
Mr. BELIN - How long did it take you after that to have the back part sealed off?
Mr. HARKNESS - The guard was arriving by the time I got off my motorcycle. There was already additional squads en route.

Cheers, Ed

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Re: Jersey

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 06 May 2017, 9:15 pm

We can not put Peggy by Baker's bike, she is not there.
Only logical conclusion is she did not listen to Baker's radio.
She listened to one near her location. Behind the wall. Closer to the TSBD and the Elm Extension than to Elm Street.
That excludes Baker's bike as she is not there to hear it.

Harkness.
That is the answer you seek.
Perhaps four or five minutes passed, she heard a report during the time
If it was not Curry, which I highly doubt she heard even if Baker's bike was parked for someone to hear that from his radio, then it was a later report between Curry at 12:31 and Harkness at 12:36

Now if the TSBD is being covered by Harkness and the 'guard'
why this at 12:37

12:37
  UnknownWe have the emergency entrance secured. (12:37 p.m.)
   125 (Captain P.W. Lawrence)We have the emergency entrance to Parkland secured.
   22 (Patrolman L.L. Hill)Get some men up here to cover this school depository building. It's believed the shot came from, as you see it on Elm Street, it would be upper right hand corner, second window from the end.
   Dispatcher10-4. How many do you have there?
   22I have one guy that was possibly hit by a richochet from the bullet off the concrete and another one saw the President slump.
   Dispatcher10-4.
   137 (Patrolman E.D. Brewer)We have a man here who says he saw him pull the weapon back through the window off of the second floor from the southeast corner of that depository building
   DispatcherAll right, do you have the building covered off?
   137No, about 3/4 of a block away from there.
   DispatcherAll right, pull on down there.
   13710-4. I'll leave these witnesses here.
"Get some men up here to cover this TSBD" ~12:37  Patrolman L.L. Hill

PS, Haygood radios at 12:34
142 (Patrolman C.A. Haygood) "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
Now if Baker would have radioed in a report and findings he could tell them all that no one was up there. But its the DPD...

Now Peggy does say she felt the report on the radio was of a sort that she felt it safe to go into the TSBD.
She could miss Haygoods as Harkness wasn't there yet, Harkness pulls down Elm Ext parks goes to railroad yard/parking area.
Peggy makes her way back towards the TSBD up the Elm Extension around Harkness' trike, hears all the chatter and nothing about TSBD so she heads back along Elm Ext into building.

Yes?

Cheers, Ed
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