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Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

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Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Vinny on Wed 31 May 2017, 9:02 pm

Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?


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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 31 May 2017, 10:39 pm

If I had to guess, Vinny, I'd say he's looking at Jack Ruby.

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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by barto on Thu 01 Jun 2017, 3:32 am


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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by greg parker on Thu 01 Jun 2017, 7:56 am

Is it possible Oswald looked at him because he caught a sudden movement from the corner of his eye, rather than any look of recognition?

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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 01 Jun 2017, 11:23 am

Reporters had shouted out a few questions.
I dont belive that Lee could see Ruby

Until it was too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBrSt4_ultw

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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 01 Jun 2017, 11:45 am

Green car stuff is odd.
But here is reporter, the mic,... then Ruby.
https://youtu.be/58QMFa8oruE
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by BC_II on Fri 02 Jun 2017, 8:48 am

Gotta love the 2 car horn bits as well....LHO was in a literal hornets nest the moment he stepped foot in Dallas...

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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 2:52 pm

I thought they were "ready" for the transfer...
Who orders an armored truck they know will not fit in the garage?
Who says everything is ready when the cars are not yet arraigned
and then Fritz brings Oswald out but runs on ahead instead of keeping Oswald safe...

Why would Ruby need to be at the DPD at 10am as many have said he was;

Curry reported the making of his decision to move Oswald as follows:
Then, I talked to Fritz about when he thought he would transfer the prisoner, and he didn't think it was a good idea to transfer him at night because of the fact you couldn't see, and if anybody tried to cause them any trouble, they needed to see who they were and where it was coming from and so forth, and he suggested that we wait until daylight, so this was normal procedure, I mean, for Fritz to determine when he is going to transfer his prisoners, so I told him "Okay." I asked him, I said, "What time do you think you will be ready tomorrow?" And he didn't know exactly and I said, "Do you think about 10 o'clock," and he said, "I believe so," and then is when I went out and told the newspaper people ... "I believe if you are back here by 10 o'clock you will be back in time to observe anything you care to observe." 96







After talking with Decker, Curry began to discuss plans for the transfer. With the threats against Oswald in mind, Curry suggested to Batchelor and Deputy Chief Stevenson that Oswald be transported to the county jail in an armored truck, to which they agreed. While Batchelor made arrangements to have an armored truck brought to the building, Curry and Stevenson tentatively agreed on the route the armored truck would follow from the building to the county jail.100

Page 210

Curry decided that Oswald would leave the building via the basement. He stated later that he reached this decision shortly after his arrival at the police building Sunday morning, when members of the press had already begun to gather in the basement. There is no evidence that anyone opposed this decision.101 Two members of the Dallas police did suggest to Captain Fritz that Oswald be taken from the building by another exit, leaving the press "waiting in the basement and on Commerce Street, and we could be to the county jail before anyone knew what was taking place." 102 However, Fritz said that he did not think Curry would agree to such a plan because he had promised that Oswald would be transferred at a time when newsmen could take pictures.103 Forrest Sorrels also suggested to Fritz that Oswald be moved at an unannounced time when no one was around, but Fritz again responded that Curry "wanted to go along with the press and not try to put anything over on them." 104
Fritz learned for the first time of the plan to convey Oswald by armored truck and immediately expressed his disapproval. He urged the use of an unmarked police car driven by a police officer, pointing out that this would be better from the standpoint of both speed and maneuverability. Curry agreed to Fritz' plan; the armored truck would be used as a decoy. They decided that the armored truck would leave the ramp first, followed by a car which would contain only security officers. A police car bearing Oswald would follow. After proceeding one block, the car with Oswald would turn off and proceed directly to the county jail; the armored truck would follow a lead car to the jail along the previously agreed upon and more circuitous route.124

Captain Fritz instructed Detectives C. W. Brown and C. N. Dhority and a third detective to proceed to the garage and move the follow-up car and the transfer car into place on the auto ramp. He told Lt. Rio S. Pierce to obtain another automobile from the basement and take up a lead position on Commerce Street.125 Deputy Chief Stevenson went back to the basement to inform Batchelor and Jones of the change in plans.126 Oswald was given his sweater, and then his right hand was handcuffed to the left hand of Detective J. R. Leavelle.127 Detective T. L. Baker called the jail office to check on security precautions in the basement and notify officials that the prisoner was being brought down.128



Here in all this precaution is Fritz, a wild card, causes confusion, and might have been sending the Car with Oswald to its doom.

Of course all Ruby may see is a plan for an armored car. Thus entering basement either with the press or through alleyway door will get him in, and close enough. Close enough to assassinate Oswald before the armored truck prevents this, and Sheriffs office becomes involved.

I do not believe Ruby could play his games with the Sheriffs Dept.
like he could and did with DPD.
Likewise the DPD could play games with Ruby.
Perhaps telling him through his back channels he would get off easy, no jury will convict you Jack, you'll be a hero Jack...
I bet it was a part psychology and part brainwashing

Cheers, ed

PS
To Will Fritz's plan B:
You can't have cameras, news reporters, and have Oswald put into an unmarked car secretly all in the same basement without it being broadcast world wide....!
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by greg parker on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 3:39 pm

ed wrote:To Will Fritz's plan B:
You can't have cameras, news reporters, and have Oswald put into an unmarked car secretly all in the same basement without it being broadcast world wide....!

Ed, if Oswald had made it a bit further, I'm sure Fritz's plan would have included asking the media to close their eyes for a second so they couldn't see which vehicle Oswald got into. 

Yep, that must be it.  No one would have peeked.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The 2017 ROKC Conference tickets and info
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:02 pm

Got that right mate!

For a second I thought all the cops were gonna pile in the armored truck and let Lee drive himself in the unmarked unit...
I mean he got away every other time, yes....
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 6:47 pm

Better question is wth is Fritz looking at

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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:28 pm

Kicker is there was a smaller armored truck

It IS a large truck with two bunk. in it . FLEMING explained
that the larger truck was needed because of the large number
of people it would be transporting, including OSWALD and a
number of police officers .
HALL stated he was familiar with the basement at
City Hall and knew that the truck was too large to get into
the entrance on the Main Street aide of city Hall, so it was
agreed to back the truck into the entrance on the Commerce
street side .
The four of them left their Dallas office at about
10245 A .M . HALL drove the larger truck, with FLEMING riding
in the passenger side . GOIN and DIETRICH went in an accompanying
smaller armored truck, with GOIN driving .
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 05 Jun 2017, 7:37 pm

Then this:

twenty minutes after he parked the truck in the
garage entrance he heard a shot, and someone yelled that OSWALD
had been shot . He remained in place, however, until someone
asked him to move his truck out of the garage entrance . By
this time, an ambulance had entered the main Street side of the
garage to pick up OSWALD . HALL was unable to immediately drive
the truck from the garage because parked immediately in front of
the truck was a police car . He yelled to the driver of the
police car to move it, and when this was done he pulled the
truck across the street
where he parked it on the south side of
Commerce Street, until he was told by Chief BATCHELOR that the
truck would no longer be needed, at which time he and FLEMING,
accompanied by GOIN and DIETRICH in the other truck, returned
to their parking lot .
HALL estimated that not more than two minutes could
have elapsed from the time of the shooting until he actually
pulled out of the garage entrance.



Such a cluster, the armored truck was blocked!!!
By a police car.
This was a murder scene and Lee wasn't escaping alive
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 3:03 am

I thought this was funny.
 
"Shortly after 9 o'clock Sunday morning, policemen cleared the basement of all but police personnel. Guards were stationed at the top of the Main and Commerce Streets auto ramps leading down into the basement, at each of the five doorways into the garage, and at the double doors leading to the public hallway adjacent to the jail office. Then, Sgt. Patrick T. Dean, acting under instructions from Talbert, directed 14 men in a search of the garage. Maintenance workers were directed to leave the area. The searchers examined the rafters, tops of air conditioning ducts, and every closet and room opening off the garage. They searched the interior and trunk compartment of automobiles parked in the garage. The two passenger elevators in the central part of the garage were not in service and the doors were shut and locked; the service elevator was moved to the first floor, and the operator was instructed not to return it to the basement.


"After the search had been completed, the police allowed news representatives to reenter the basement area and gather along the entrance to the garage on the east side of the ramp. Later, the police permitted the newsmen to stand in front of the railing on the east side of the ramp leading to Main Street. The policemen deployed by Talbert and Dean had instructions to allow no one but identified news media representatives into the basement. As before, the police accepted any credentials that appeared authentic, though some officers did make special efforts to check for pictures and other forms of corroborating identification. Many newsmen reported that they were checked on more than one occasion while they waited in the basement. A small number did not recall that their credentials were ever checked."
 
So on one hand you are so exhaustively thorough that you do things like check the tops of air conditioning ducts(!), but on the other hand you are so loosey-goosey that you allow newsman to come and go, credential checks are optional. ("Thank you very much sir! Have a wonderful patsy-elimination day!")
 
No, they (led by Talbert?) eliminated all possibilities for anything to interfere with the main plan: Ruby.
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Re: Who Or What Is Oswald Looking At?

Post by greg parker on Tue 06 Jun 2017, 8:13 am

Any doubt that this whole set-up was for any other purpose than the elimination of Oswald is now gone. 

Flowing from that, we are left to ponder whether Fritz was part of the assassination plot, or whether the elimination was simply due to the realization that his usual MO in railroading wasn't going to fly under the glare of the whole world.

I'd go with the latter, but wouldn't entirely rule out the former.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The 2017 ROKC Conference tickets and info
https://www.thenewdisease.space/conference
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