of road apples and Bondi Cigars

the painter wrote:That 2014 Lunchroom Incident essay is finally posted in the ESSAYS section of my website at http://www.jfkinsidejob.com My apologies for the delay. Unbeknownst to me my webmaster had moved to Vermont to pursue a master's degree, but forgot to inform his co-workers about my web account. 

No, he didn't forget to tell his colleagues. He took mercy on them

pat. pending wrote:This essay shows that the Stroud document places Adams & Styles on the stairs during the same timeframe that Truly & Baker are ascending the stairs from the elevator area. Since neither pair saw the other, the men had to have been in the lunchroom when the ladies passed.

The Stroud document makes no such claim. All it says is "after Miss Adams went down stairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come up." If anything, it indicates that Truly and Baker came up after Adams and Styles had exited the building. It's all guesswork because she gave no indication of how much time had passed when she saw them "come up".

The Prophet wrote:To further outline my argument devastating to Sean Murphy's lunchroom hoax theory-

2) Every single item of lunchroom-related evidence has a mundane explanation that supports the incident's reality. A key example- hoaxers decry Baker's omission of seeing his suspect enter the room while writing his affidavit, but ignore the fact that Baker was mindful of this omission and confided it to homicide detective Marvin Johnson soon afterward.

LMAO! It's called covering butts! If Oswald was the person he had seen, he would have got the description right, as well as mention he was the person under arrest.

The Plaintiff wrote:3) WC 3076, the Sept. 23rd affidavit, shows that 6 months after his testimony Baker was still confused about the TSBD floor layout. He initially described the lunchroom as on the "second or third floor" but upon reflection crossed out "or third floor"- giving a strong likelihood he was confused about the TSBD floor layout in his 1st-day affidavit.

LMAO again! Police taking witness statements will often throw in deliberate errors to test the witness. If they amend the errors, the cops can be satisfied they read the statement and understood it. Another error thrown in was a little thing about a coke...

The Doctor wrote:4) The 1964 filmed CBS interview and 1986 filmed testimony display no tangible indication that a monstrous lie about the lunchroom incident is being put forth, nor is there any indication that Baker was excessively nervous when being questioned by top-flight trial attorney Vincent Bugliosi.

Hmmm. Cute. The Doctor has portrayed the Bug as a defense attorney, which in turn makes Baker a hostile witness in need of grilling. 

The reality was somewhat different. Bugliosi was the prosecutor, making Baker a friendly witness in no need of being nervous.

The Magi wrote:5) The will-call counter bump, a superfluous incident that serves no ostensible purpose in a contrived hoax narrative, is a telltale indicator that the dozen other points of correspondence in the Truly/Baker testimonies (at the elevator & in the lunchroom) actually happened

Gobbledygook.

The Baffled wrote:6) The Kent Biffle newspaper story about Oswald being seen in a 1st-floor storage room has not one whit of corroboration, and is almost certainly garbled hearsay.

Not hearsay at all. The quotes came from the witness, Ochus Campbell.

Dick Hitler-Occam wrote:7) The hoax theory flunks the test of Occam's Razor. A sizeable mini-conspiracy is required to sustain it, including Truly, Baker, James Bookhout, David Belin, James Leavelle, Jeraldean Reid, and anyone else "in the know" at the TSBD, DPD, FBI and Warren Commission.

If there is one thing over (and incorrectly) applied in JFK research more than Hitler comparisons, it is the Hail Mary to Mr. Occam.  

Dick needs to bone up on the Reid Technique, in particular the part about how police build scenarios to fit the guilt of their suspect.  There was nothing unusual about the railroading of Oswald.

That Stand Up Guy wrote: This contrived, artificial theory yields nothing. It has not produced a single substantive, tangible​ result, despite more than a decade of searching for one.

Well, gee Willickers, the 2nd floor lunch encounter story has been around for over 5 decades. Though I have to admit it has actually produced a tangible result. It has helped stopped the truth from coming out, kept wheels spinning, and helped maintain the Oswald-as-lone-nut official story.  

The Thinker wrote:9) Truly confided to his wife that same evening that he'd encountered Oswald in the lunchroom. The apparent source for this is a Philadelphia-based news report.

LMAO again! "The apparent source"...???? Well, that seals it. The inside man allegedly tells an unknown reporter at an unknown paper that he "confided" something to his wife about Oswald in the lunchroom! Stunning!

The Truth Teller wrote:This is so far over the top it's embarrassing.

Yup.

The Straight Dope wrote:It calls into question the hoaxers' ability to process rational information. How can their position be considered correct, if such an extensive counter-argument's bullet points can be assembled against it?

LMAO!!! "The bullet points of an extensive counter-argument" consisting of a skewed reading of a document, flawed and cherry-picked analysis of Baker's affidavit, misstating a news account as hearsay and an alleged report by an unknown reporter from an unknown paper. Amazing.

Leapy Lee wrote:There is nothing in their argument that necessitates their peculiar interpretation of the lunchroom-related evidence. Theirs is merely a collection of ambiguous police reports & anecdotes and newspaper stories. And their explanation for this ambiguity? That the event was make-believe. They leap to this conclusion without even considering alternative explanations. 

If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and swims like a duck...

Mr Spock wrote:There is a classic Twilight Zone episode that helps illustrate how tragically far off the mark their interpretation is. In To Serve Man, the aliens finally arrive and they present humanity with a book of this title. But its contents are hieroglyphics that nobody can make sense of. Yet the aliens are friendly and evidently they've arrived to help serve us and share their technology.

Near the end of the episode, as the lead scientist is boarding a ramp into their spaceship, for a journey to their home planet, his assistant suddenly bursts through the crowd. "We've decoded the book!" she yells.

"Great! What's it say?"

"It's a cookbook!!"

Yeah baby, it's the anarchists cook book and we cooked ourselves a feast.


**********************************************

The plagiarist wrote:One of us cannot be wrong. 

Tell it to Leonard Cohen.

The Twelve Stepper wrote:Either the lunchroom incident happened, or it did not happen. And the theory that it was just a hoax does not survive the combined forces of Reason and Sober Judgment.

Speaking of sober, how's that assistant doing?

The Watcher wrote:Its failure exposes, among many other things, the pigheadedness that pervades the JFK research community. The lack of maturity, both emotional and intellectual. And the underhandedness that its followers will resort to in order to promote this irrational belief.

For to criticize the hoax belief guarantees that you will be targeted for scorn and ridicule- by the Clockwork Orange cyber-bullies who propagate this mullarkey. Censored, deleted, and ignored by the gatekeepers who shepherd the information flow about President Kennedy's murder- just like the good ole boys on the Warren Commission did, obfuscating the truth.

O the irony! Accusing us of being obfuscators of the truth for... denying the scenario you believe - a scenario given us by... the warren Commission... who you portray as.... "obfuscating the truth".

Never seen anyone beat themselves so badly before.

Let me untie the knot you've got yourself in.

WC = Obfuscators. 

Therefore supporters of WCR or any part thereof are supporters of obfuscation

ROKC = evidence based reconstruction of events no matter where that leads

Therefore ROKC = anti-obfuscation.

********************************************

Dry Hole wrote:Central to understanding just what happened inside the Depository is this unassailable fact- during the early minutes of the police search, power was cut to the passenger & freight elevators. And this is not mentioned in the Warren Report.

Nor is it mentioned in any newspapers, that I am aware of. The newspaper archive that has been uncovered has been the true golden nugget of the hoax research. The rest of it is fool's gold.

Glad to be of service...

Excellent response, Greg.
My favourite part of Dicky's tripe is Baker heroically standing up to Bugliosi's furious verbal onslaught. Baker didn't fair quite so well when Spence showed him Altgens 6. He almost fell from his chair. One could easily assume Baker had a flashback about seeing Oswald somewhere other than the 2nd floor lunchroom.

Where the hell is this garbage from Greg?? Wow....I cannot believe he had the balls to even mention Bugliosi in positive light....

BC_II wrote:Where the hell is this garbage from Greg?? Wow....I cannot believe he had the balls to even mention Bugliosi in positive light....

The Deep Politics forum (or the Deep Foo as it is affectionately known here...)

...speaking of which, don't look now but the Foo has a bad case of the Trots. I mean it. Don't bother looking.

Ah...of course lol...(thanks Greg).