connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Sun 01 Jan 2012, 12:01 am

One of the people interviewed in relation to the Odio incident was Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1141&relPageId=400

As can be seen, Pino Pino was working at the El Chico Restaurant Warehouse at the time of the interview (9/8/64) and advised he was a member of Alpha 66 - which possibly puts him in the middle of some very interesting meetings and a house on Harlendale.

This document shows that he was under investigation in Jun 1963 for being g2 (Cuban Intelligence). It also shows he was employed then also by the El Chico Restaurant. It should be fairly safe then, that he had the same employer in late Nov '63.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125453&relPageId=4

Further background
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125456&relPageId=2

In May, 1964, Pino Pino is listed as an officer in Alpha 66
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125576&relPageId=6

Here is the incident at the El Chico Restaurant involving an "Oswald" sighting on the afternoon of the assassination:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=699114

But there are numerous documents and articles which should be read on this incident to get the full picture.

Mon 06 Feb 2012, 10:13 pm

Shame we don't have a photograph of him, Greg. The tentacles sure do spread across the Oak Cliff area don't they?

I really don't believe that White made an error on this. According to the reports, checks were made on variations of the license number that White wrote down and they came up with nothing.

There is very little evidence within the reports that the Mather and Tippit families were friends. Living near someone does not automatically make you their friend and there is something decidedly dodgy about this whole situation IMO.

Within a few square blocks of the Theater we have Johnny Brewer "socialising" with his IBM friends. We have Bill Lowery, Communist infiltrator and FBI plant working in his shoe store. We have cars that link us to Collins radio. And we have Alpha 66 members working in restaurants that have possible links to Sylvia Odio.

Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:34 pm

There is very little evidence within the reports that the Mather and Tippit families were friends.

I'm sure there was testimony to the effect that Tippit had few friends on the force.

Sat 11 Oct 2014, 4:25 pm

since Larry Hancock has recently suggested this topic needs further investigation, I'd thought I'd give it a bump.
http://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/loose-ends-in-dallas-and-the-house-on-harlandale/

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 1:17 am

So Oswaldo lived a 5 minute walk from the 700 block of North Beckley. Close to either Neely St and 1026 North Beckley. Interesting.

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 9:56 am

Colin Crow wrote:So Oswaldo lived a 5 minute walk from the 700 block of North Beckley. Close to either Neely St and 1026 North Beckley. Interesting.

Colin,

I'm tired and caffeined to the max so it's wild-ass theory time. I base it on the following points which are themselves a mix of fact and conjecture

1. Oswald never stayed at N Beckley. (conjecture)

2. Herbert "Leon" Lee did stay there. (fact)

3. "Leon" had arrived from Shreveport. (fact)

4. Odio said her visitors arrived from New Orleans. (fact)

5. Odio testified that the American was only ever referred to as "Leon". No surname was used. (fact)

6. One of the Cubans who visited Odio was Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino. (conjecture)

7. Pino Pino had been investigated as a possible Castro double-agent. (fact)

8. Pino Pino lived near the boarding house where "Leon" was staying (fact)

9. Odio told Mrs Connell on Nov 28 that "Oswald" had given talks at a number of Cuban meetings and that she had been warned by friends in New Orleans to be wary of "Oswald" as they considered him a Castro double-agent. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XsR_bn6pHQ8J:jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%2520Subject%2520Index%2520Files/O%2520Disk/Odio%2520Sylvia/Item%252035.pdf+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au (fact)

10. Herbert "Leon" Lee was a navy veteran. (fact)

11. Odio said that the Cubans told her "Leon" was a former Marine. (fact)

12. Herbert "Leon" Lee - according to his obit - became a police officer in Jefferson, Texas after 30 years as a floor layer. (fact)

------------------------

I think the names "Leon" and "Osvaldo" became stuck together in her mind post-assassination when she saw that a "Lee Oswald" was the alleged assassin. (conjecture)

Herbert "Leon" Lee becoming a cop in his 50's after 30 years as a floor layer just doesn't ring true. Was he ONI/undercover cop all along? (conjecture)

Why was his alleged room-mate James Watson not found and interviewed - especially since "Leon" claimed not to have even known Oswald stayed at N Beckley, but that he thought Watson had indeed talked to Oswald?

A few more coffees however and I may revise this beyond recognition Exclamation

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 7:18 pm

Interesting that Herbert Lee was a floor layer. I wonder if he might have been part of the 5-8 man crew that was brought in to the TSBD as part of the floor laying exercise?

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 9:35 pm

Colin, where does the 5 to 8 figure come from?

I have to confess, this was one of the aspects I didn't find convincing.

connection between chico carpark and odio incidents? Norman10

connection between chico carpark and odio incidents? Norman10

Norman stated in his WC testimony that he spent most of his time up there "shooting the breeze". He could not recall for the HSCA if this guy was still there on Nov 22.

I believe the guy in question was the guy hired around the same time as LHO but laid off per Truly's testimony on Nov 15 - and this is the reason no one named him as part of the crew.

Norman also told the HSCA that most of the experienced guys were still working downstairs (or over at the other warehouse?) so it makes sense that a new temp would be working on the floor laying (tho it begs the question as to why Lee wasn't!)

I know Norman asked if this guy had a crew with him and Norman answers "yes" but I think there is plenty of room there for a misinterpretation on Norman's part. The TSBD workers doing the floor have always been referred to as "the floor-laying crew" and if this guy was a temp employee, they would be "his crew". Unfortunately the issue was not explored further, but I can't accept your interpretation of the evidence as it is. I would have wanted to see Norman say flat out that the TSBD hired an external crew... not just answer "yes" to a question he could easily have misunderstood.

Mon 13 Oct 2014, 11:25 pm

From another poster on Duncan's site.....

"An independent interview conducted by the authors of the Men on the Sixth Floor with TSBD employee Harold Norman discloses this information:

Norman: "Well, they were working...they were putting down some flooring, some plywood, they were painting, there was quite a bit of noise" -Page 76
Norman: "Yeah they had one of those table saws...to fix the hardwood flooring...it was by the windows onthe east end of the 6th floor" -Page 78
Norman: "There was an outside contractor. A crew of about 5-8 men doing the construction" -Page 78"

I found it interesting the guy was a floor layer by trade. Maybe Norman is BS. Maybe Semple is lying. Maybe it's just coincidence. They do seem to pop up though.

A bit like Brewer and Lowery both shoesalesmen on Jefferson. Oswald buying new shoes, visiting Brewer's store and later his references about "Junie needs new shoes".

I make no theory on this one, just another mysterious piece or not?

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 7:12 am

Colin Crow wrote:From another poster on Duncan's site.....

"An independent interview conducted by the authors of the Men on the Sixth Floor with TSBD employee Harold Norman discloses this information:

Norman: "Well, they were working...they were putting down some flooring, some plywood, they were painting, there was quite a bit of noise" -Page 76
Norman: "Yeah they had one of those table saws...to fix the hardwood flooring...it was by the windows onthe east end of the 6th floor" -Page 78
Norman: "There was an outside contractor. A crew of about 5-8 men doing the construction" -Page 78"

I found it interesting the guy was a floor layer by trade. Maybe Norman is BS. Maybe Semple is lying. Maybe it's just coincidence. They do seem to pop up though.

A bit like Brewer and Lowery both shoesalesmen on Jefferson. Oswald buying new shoes, visiting Brewer's store and later his references about "Junie needs new shoes".

I make no theory on this one, just another mysterious piece or not?

Fixing hardwood flooring? Painting?

Okay. that nails it. Norman is confused. He is recalling the crew that did come in to do renovations earlier in the year.

All that was happening Oct/Nov was the plywood being placed over the existing flooring. There was no need for contractors to do this. Monkeys could have done it under supervision.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 7:30 am

We are looking at Norman recalling something from late July or early August.

They talked about Sonny Liston.

Liston fought Floyd Paterson on July 22, 1963.

The last fight he had prior to that was Sept 25, 1962 - again against Paterson.

The next fight after July 22, 1963 did not occur until February 25, 1964. That was against Ali.

This fits with Truly telling the FBI that the TSBD had only occupied the building "for a few months".
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1005378

Though not stated in that brief report, other reports show that they had quite a bit done to the place at the time of moving in - using external contractors.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 8:10 pm

Then again the Liston/Clay fight was signed on Nov 5. Hard to see he could misinterpret “that day" but who knows. It does seem he was called in on occasion for repairs.

Who were "most of the old hands" that worked at the other warehouse. From memory, Givens had been transferred from there to the TSBD. Williams was a new employee who had been transferred also.

Shields, worked in the warehouse IIRC.

Tue 14 Oct 2014, 8:45 pm

Colin Crow wrote:Then again the Liston/Clay fight was signed on Nov 5. Hard to see he could misinterpret “that day" but who knows. It does seem he was called in on occasion for repairs.

Who were "most of the old hands" that worked at the other warehouse. From memory, Givens had been transferred from there to the TSBD. Williams was a new employee who had been transferred also.

Shields, worked in the warehouse IIRC.

Colin,

Norman is quoted as saying "...most of the time he and I would mostly be talking about the fight..." Yes, he could be talking about an upcoming fight between Liston and Ali. What militates against that is firstly, it reads more like an event that has already taken place. Secondly, Ali (or Clay as he still was) was little known then and a 7 to 1 rank outsider. This fight did not garner a great deal of interest. The bout with Patterson was a rematch after Liston had taken Paterson's title with a 1st round knockout - with that first fight being one of the most ballyhooed in heavyweight history. Thirdly, the timing fits neatly with the time Truly let slip that they had moved into the building - while painting as one of the jobs being done, also fits.

You may be right. They may well have had a carpenter who came in occasionally for minor repair work. That would not be unusual. If they did have such a handyman they called upon as needed, I do find it difficult to see how he comes under suspicion. Was he a chippy and part-time assassin-for-hire?

The real significance is that this information which you've teased out (to my mind anyway) supports the TSBD moving in as that document states - a few months prior to the assassination. They was a small doubt in my mind about it because there are claims that the company moved in late the previous year or at the start of the year. We now have them moving in at the same time plans are being made to lure JFK to Dallas...

Sat 24 Sep 2016, 11:40 pm

Mon 26 Sep 2016, 12:08 pm

From Larry Hancock's website:

Larry Hancock wrote:Jose Salazar had rented the House on Harlandale, served as vice president of the Dallas Alpha 66 chapter and was a friend of Oswaldo Aurelio Pino – Pino was one of those specifically questioned by the FBI about knowing and possibly visiting Sylvia Odio. The FBI was particularly interested in Pino as he had been an important figure in Cuba (Chief of the Fuels and Lubrication Department at the Institute of Agrarian reform) following the revolution. He was suspected of involvement with Cuban G-2 inside Cuba and being an informant on anti-Castroites and anti-Communists. After arriving in the US, the FBI investigated him as a possible Cuban intel agent. He was investigated by Dallas FBI agent Walter Heitman from June 63 to March 64 – the investigation was delayed because Heitman was pulled for JFK assassination investigation work. If Pino was not a Castro agent, clearly he had become a very dedicated anti-Castro activist.
(side note: virtually none of Heitman’s pre- assassination reports and files are available; yet he played the main role in FBI subversive investigations focused on Cubans in Dallas. This is one of the most important and least pursued areas of JFK research…in case anybody is interested).
Pino admitted joining a variety of exile groups in Dallas including Alpha 66 / SNFE / MRP) and being Vice Secretary; this was confirmed by a series of FBI informants.

As I said upstream, I think Herbert Leon Lee and Osvaldo Pino Pino were two of the three who visited Odio . Post assassination, she remembered the names "Leon" and Osvaldo" and put them together when she heard the name "Lee Oswald" in the media.

Fri 30 Dec 2016, 11:40 pm

greg parker wrote:As I said upstream, I think Herbert Leon Lee and Osvaldo Pino Pino were two of the three who visited Odio . Post assassination, she remembered the names "Leon" and Osvaldo" and put them together when she heard the name "Lee Oswald" in the media.

I think the Gregster is spot on here. I recall seeing a photo of Herbert Lee where, IMO, he somewhat resembled Oswald. I used to think the person T. F. White saw was Igor Vaganov, but now I am leaning towards it being Herbert Lee. I also think that the "Leon Oswald" Perry Raymond Russo saw with David Ferrie and Clay Shaw (whom I used to think was Larry Crafard) was Herbert "Leon" Lee. I'm no "expert" on Russo, but I think it's possible he remembered "Leon" as "Leon Oswald" because of the hypnosis he was put under...

Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:37 pm

Bruton/Burton Einspruch; who was Sylvia Odio’s psychiatrist, was working for the U. S. Navy at the Naval hospital in Philadelphia, P. A:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11941&search=Burton_Einspruch+Naval+intelligence#relPageId=208&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=59639&search=Bruton_Einspruch+Naval+hospital#relPageId=117&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1212&search=Bruton_Einspruch#relPageId=33&tab=page

Hmmm… makes me wonder what he might have “planted” in her head before and/or after the assassination.

Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:35 pm

Angel Sanchez Mosquera; someone whom could have been the Angel/Angelo who visited Sylvia Odio in late September, 1963, with Herbert “Leon” Lee:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=115997&search=Angel_Sanchez+Mosquera#relPageId=34&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84466&search=Angel_Sanchez+Mosquera+shreveport#relPageId=7&tab=page

“Angel Sánchez Mosquera; what can we say about Sánchez Mosquera? The epitome of military assassin, responsible for the murder of dozens of peasants in the area round Minas de Bueycito during the struggle in the Sierra Maestra, of the death of the peasant collaborator Lucas Castillo and of other members of his family and neighbors in the Santo Domingo area… Angel Sánchez Mosquera was part of the command structure of a Cuban International Anticommunist Legion set up in 1961 to carry out paramilitary actions against Cuba and then for many years after continued to be linked to terrorist plots against our country.”

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/documentos/2002/ing/m260502i.html

He seems quite hard core to me.

Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:38 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:Angel Sanchez Mosquera; someone whom could have been the Angel/Angelo who visited Sylvia Odio in late September, 1963, with Herbert “Leon” Lee:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=115997&search=Angel_Sanchez+Mosquera#relPageId=34&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84466&search=Angel_Sanchez+Mosquera+shreveport#relPageId=7&tab=page

“Angel Sánchez Mosquera; what can we say about Sánchez Mosquera? The epitome of military assassin, responsible for the murder of dozens of peasants in the area round Minas de Bueycito during the struggle in the Sierra Maestra, of the death of the peasant collaborator Lucas Castillo and of other members of his family and neighbors in the Santo Domingo area… Angel Sánchez Mosquera was part of the command structure of a Cuban International Anticommunist Legion set up in 1961 to carry out paramilitary actions against Cuba and then for many years after continued to be linked to terrorist plots against our country.”

http://www.cuba.cu/gobierno/documentos/2002/ing/m260502i.html

He seems quite hard core to me.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=71775&search=Angel_Sanchez+Mosquera+New+Orleans#relPageId=27&tab=page

Thu 19 Jan 2017, 5:24 pm

Damn dirty Sanchez.
Did Herbert Leon Lee have a garage door installed?
Guess his Beckley room mate will never tell.

Great Work Hasan!

Thu 19 Jan 2017, 6:07 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Damn dirty Sanchez.
Did Herbert Leon Lee have a garage door installed?
Guess his Beckley room mate will never tell.

Reminds me of that song... "but all I've got a sussssingle bed!"

Great Work Hasan!

Yep!

Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:38 pm

Thanks, guys. I don't know if this Mosquera character was at Sylvia Odio's house, but it's certainly possible.

Mon 22 Jul 2019, 10:58 pm

Tue 23 Jul 2019, 9:12 am

Great thread this!

Tue 03 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm

connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

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