---------- <<<<< It's Lee >>>>> ----------

First topic message reminder :

http://www.prayer-man.com/marina-oswald-its-lee/

One thing that is becoming clear is that the more this evidence stacks up, the more the obstinate subterfuge is exposed for the nonsense that it is. The curtain is being pulled back on them for all to see.

john boy wrote:John Boy Walton | transported from the 1930's to today to correct the Australians and back again

Ah, if only it be true that all here are Australian. What a conference slash piss up we could put on!

But the fact is that most here are as American as Mickey Mouse baking an apple pie in the Grand Canyon on the 4th of July... and most of the rest are as British as black pudding.

The day you can correct an Australian, or the US and British comrades of an Australian, is the day that hope dies. 

Goodnight John Boy. Don't let the bed bugs bite.

Yes a missing "/" between 3/4" and VHS is more important than two words the essay is about,
Its Lee.
Tragic.

Too bad, usage of "Umatic" in the writing would be Jargon. Jargon has negative implications for most readers they want to dispense with technical mumbo jumbo or legalese and be told the fundamental facts.
Fact Wig and Darn were transferred from News Reel celluloid to magnetic tape.
Fact we are not provided access to the master tape or film so a physical determination of the transfer can be made.
Fact requests for further information or access have been denied by TPTB. (NBC UNIVERSAL EXECS)
I could not personally inspect the tapes used by NBC for Weigman And Darnell footage, but then they would be just magnetic tape to the reader, anything from 2" transverse scan to Betamax. John Boy Walton hasnt a clue.
We cant really get a straight answer from NBC as to the films transfer, the copy (magnetic tape) other than it was taped from film.
But VHS and Umatic are oil and water ...right.
Never shall you call one by the other.
It's really all VHS tape now .... umatic beta etc etc
Magnetic tape in a plastic box, soon to be Jargon except VHS tape synonyms with "video tapes"

Here we see it may be anything, even 1/2"
Early tape was Ampex, 1/2-inch tape for colour and 1/4-inch tape for monochrome.

"Many of the 2” tape players were very large and not meant for portable use. The transition to smaller tape sizes addressed this issue. One of the earliest half inch videorecorders was the Telcan produced by the Nottingham Electric Valve Company, first demonstrated in 1963. Short for “television in a can”, the Telcan was intended to be be a domestic video recorder capable of recording 20 minutes of low quality video footage. Though commercially unsuccessful because of its high price, difficulty to assemble, and lack of color support, it was an early attempt at a new market for videorecording devices. In 1964, Phillips introduced the 1” EL3400 videotape recorder, marketed as a semi-professional machine, and in 1965 Sony introduced the ½” CV-2000, marketed for home use as a domestic recorder. The CV-2000 retailed between $1150 and $1400, depending on if camera accessories were included. However the CV-2000 tape was difficult to play between different machines because of instability with its skip field system. Ampex used several forms of 1” tape, Type A (1965), and Type C (1976); Type B 1” videotape was introduced by Bosch in 1976, and was used extensively in European broadcasts. In 1969, the Electronic Industries Association of Japan (EIAJ) attempted to standardize videotape format by bringing several different manufacturers together in order to agree on a single format which can be used between companies. This resulted in the Sony EIAJ format, a ½” video tape which was technically superior to the previous CV-2000 and became standard across many broadcasting industries."

So who knows exactly the provenance of the transfer to video tape it may depend on exactly what equipment NBC invested in at the time of the trsnsfer.

It's been implied the screener copy was a transfer made for anniversary of JFK death... 5yr? 10yr? More likely 10.
But hey who is talking... not NBC.
Greg has not received a reply as far as I'm aware.

Oh btw when I worked with 3/4 or Umatic it was called a VHS machine in local tv jargon before that became synced with home video. At least where I was.
And it looks like this,



Besides there was little distinction, just another new type of tape in a videocassette.
VHS was what you colloquially called tape after its booming success and the demise of the other formats. Youd say you had a VHS tape. I'd ask is it VHS Beta or umatic so we could play it back on the proper machine. VHS is tape.

Videocassettes

"Reel-to-reel formats were cheaper to produce and duplicate than film but still had many drawbacks. Due to the tape’s open exposure, the tape could easily become damaged through environmental factors or misuse.

"Sony prototyped an enclosed cassette in late 1969, and in 1970 Sony, Panasonic and JVC agreed to use a standardized videotape."

AHA! Here was an agreement to call the standard tape umatic by all the competing companies.

"The U-matic was commercially released in 1971, and was the first practical videocassette recorder. It used ¾” helical scan tape in a sturdy, enclosed cassette, and its tapes were much easier to transport and play than open reel formats. While typically not used for home distribution of films, U-matic tapes were heavily used for broadcasting, and remained in use well into the 1990s."

Another competitor coined VCR.

"Other early videocassette formats include the Phillips Video Cassette Recorder, which leant the terminology “VCR” to the format, and CTI’s Cartrivision, both introduced in 1972. While both formats were ultimately unsuccessful, Cartrivision was the first format to offer pre-recorded programs for commercial purchase, including such films as Casablanca, Dr. Strangelove and High Noon."

Sony doubled down on Umatic.
It failed. It failed as Betamax.
JVC and its brand of tape/cassette, VHS won.

"In 1975, Sony introduced the Betamax format, a smaller videocassette than the U-matic with roughly comparable quality, and JVC released the VHS format in 1976. These two videocassettes formats became incredibly popular for home usage. The two formats were in fierce competition with one another in Japanese, European and American markets in the late 1970s. The two formats were technically similar in quality with Betamax being slightly superior. Betamax was capable of displaying pictures with a resolution of 250 lines, slightly higher than VHS’s 240, and boasted higher sound quality and color definition. However, Betamax tapes were shorter than VHS and initially only were capable of holding one hour of video. By comparison, VHS could initially record up to two hours of video, enough to hold a motion picture of average length, and was often the preferred choice for home recording.". By 1981, Betamax had only 25% of the VCR market by 1986. Sony and Umatic were history, the victor was VHS.
Beta, a terminology of which Umatic should be jealous.
No one grows up with magnetic tape any more.
3/4 / VHS tape provides a window they can take a frame of reference.
70's era.
(Most likely) and who really cares, its celluloid we seek...and Not technical journal reviews.
Prayer Man is not dependent on fuzzy images or two words minus a slash.

I dont speak ntsc or pal I say Video, its universal.
Heck even umatic is of multiple varieties and SP type cassettes look nearly identical to VHS tapes
We dont really care. It's all equally shitty video.
Cheers, Ed

PS he is wrong, the.late sixties was first incantation.

The U-matic Format http://umatic.palsite.com/format.html
"Designed in the late sixties/early seventies the U-matic format was the fore-runner to all home video formats"

That's a deep dive into magnetic tape Ed. Very informative. Bottom line to my lights is we need a digital scan of the original celluloid, but any improvement over what we have is of course welcome.

DVP on EF is showing he has never given serious thought to the issues he argues against. He doesn't understand why the timing of Baker entering the building limits the maximum floor level upon which an encounter can feasibly occur. The Oswald and Baker timelines for rushing toward each other from above and below respectively, conveniently intersect at the lunch room. DVP apparently believes they had their choice of any floor if they were fabricating the story. He's kind of a dim bulb when it comes to this kind of thing.

Brian Doyle: "These Prayer Man men are not very intelligent because all we need to do is contact Marina and ask her a few questions and it will be clear she has no idea what the Prayer Man issue is or what LeDoux was trying to show her...It will become clear she thinks she's looking at the Altgens Doorway Man claim...And it will become clear that Kamp's group are liars who try to twist things in the direction of Oswald being Prayer Man no matter what they are shown..."

Bart - all joking and name calling aside, you really should fix that info you mentioned about the video. To be taken as a serious researcher, you have to have everything - and I mean everything - up to snuff.

Congratulations, Edward, on your crash course on the history of videotape. What would we do without the internet?

But the larger point is - what it says on the website is wrong. And if you're wrong and don't know the answer to what you're trying to say, why make it up? Why mention something you don't know anything about?

Put another way, all you really have to do in your PM narrative is say something along the lines of, "The local affiliate that owns the footage won't let us watch the master film footage. Meanwhile, the available existing footage that was transferred to video is grainy..."

See...that's all you had to say. Yet, in your narrative, you had to go on and on about, "The 3/4 VHS Betamax U-matic..." blah blah blah putting a damper on your story. In other words, if a person sharper than me catches your bullshit narrative about tape formats, how in the fuck is that person expected to trust anything else you say?

See what I mean? Do you get it now, Edward? Put another way, you have to get *all your ducks in a row* Edward.

Sincerely,

John Boy Walton | Waltons' Mountain, Virginia

Ha ha John Boy is deluded.
Ed has ducks.
Walton had none.
Cheers, Ed

Challenge for Walton, point out the umatic tape

Cheers, Ed

Thanks Jake,
When you see how hollow a claim that 3/4 is not a form of VHS tape, when it was designed for and used first in a Video Cassette Recorder VCR for the home market.
Its silly to claim 3/4 is not a sixties design and the dominant in the field the 1/2" VHS from the seventies, and discount the time period between the two ('60's and '70's) as the period for transfer.
Tape is tape, not going to help id Prayer Man with any tape format.
Agreed a 4k transfer from film is the only solution.
Yapping gums about "umatic" tape is a distraction.
Cheers, Ed

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Ha ha John Boy is deluded.
Ed has ducks.
Walton had none.
Cheers, Ed

Blood Oath you have ducks Ed!
In Spades, shit-shovels full. You and Bart and a whole lotta ROKCERS got so many ducks there's a queue of ducks all in a line a mile long.

No one else comes close to the amount of Ducks we got here at ROKC, Ed. No-one!

Thanks mate
Hope yours is well.
We got ducks.
Walton... just a quack
Cheers, Ed

Royell Storing at the other place put it all together rather succinctly.....

"You are another one that is absolutely reeling from the Hosty Notes. The discovery of those Notes is devastating to the age old accepted Oswald time line. As I have said previously, those in your club would be better off if they just claimed that during the 3:15 interrogation Oswald Lied regarding his movements. But no, you guys are currently in such a knee-jerk Panic that you are going through all kinds of needless contortions bordering on convulsions."


We know Royell, Doyle has been foaming at his gob for weeks now........

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.assassination.jfk/hosty|sort:date/alt.assassination.jfk/N5HXgZJP6wo/bcIIiYWNBAAJ

Vinny wrote:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.assassination.jfk/hosty|sort:date/alt.assassination.jfk/N5HXgZJP6wo/bcIIiYWNBAAJ

My reply in that thread
-----------------------
If you refer to Sean Murphy, he simply sought photographic evidence in support of what I have been saying for over 15 years - no second floor encounter - Oswald on the 1st floor and front steps at all relevant times.

He found that evidence in the figure he inaccurately dubbed Prayer Man. What we see as extra girth and hands together, is actually an optical illusion caused by the glass behind him.

Here is an artist impression of what is actually shown
https://2img.net/h/s6.postimg.cc/6kqwg3o31/100_percent_nl.jpg

Please elaborate on the rumors you refer to.

We know the sources of the news stories: Campbell, Truly and Det. Hicks. Unattributed in some versions of the stories is not the same as "unknown source".

The first person of course, to "disappear" any event was Baker with his meeting of a person one or two floors higher, 30 pounds heavier and several years older-- and nary a lunchroom in sight.

The second person to "disappear" anything was Truly who relocated the vestibule from the 1st to the 2nd floor. Search for the term "vestibule" at MFF and you find the only person to use the term correctly was Oswald by placing it at the front entrance. Truly succeeded in getting everyone to follow his lead and call the space outside the second floor lunchroom the vestibule and the area near the front entrance "the lobby". Truly must have been a big fan of 1984. Control the language and you control the plebs.

And never have I witnessed a bigger bunch of plebs being led by the nose than most of you guys.

It's not rocket science.

Hosty accurately recorded what Oswald wrote.

Fritz testified that the only person who may have taken any notes was Kelley - so unless Kelley did, it appears that really the only one doing so was Hosty.

Hosty leaves a key detail out of the joint report with Bookhout and the report covering this area is written in a far less straight-forward manner, which helps muddy things a little.

After Oswald is no longer around and reports are requested, they did what cops do around the world - they get together to get the story straight and present a more or less united front.
-----------------
From the innocence project:
The New York Times published an article yesterday that documents the persistence of lies told by police to gain a conviction. Through their investigation, the Times discovered that in more than 25 instances since 2015, judges or prosecutors concluded that a New York City police officer likely presented false testimony. Such cases—most of which are sealed—were identified through interviews with lawyers, police officers and current or former judges.

The Times’ article highlights the common lies about which police testify, including: saying they saw a gun in a suspect’s hand or waistband when it was actually out of view; saying they witnessed an arrest for which they were not actually present; claiming they watched a drug deal occur, only to later recant or be proven to have lied. In two recent cases, officers appeared to have given false statements about eyewitness testimony. “These cases,” says the Times, “are particularly troubling because erroneous identifications by witnesses have been a leading cause of wrongful convictions.”
https://www.innocenceproject.org/prevalence-police-lying/

Specific to Oswald's chief interrogator, we have:

Late the next night, Tommy Lee was brought before Captain Fritz, who questioned him for hours—not about any involvement in the robbery for which he had been arrested, but about Venice Parker’s murder. Tommy Lee said that Fritz told him he had received a phone call implicating him in the crime. Fritz had received no such call. Fritz said that there were witnesses and that police knew what he had done. Fritz had a reputation for being unusually effective at wringing admissions of guilt out of suspects, and his techniques worked in this case as well. Years later, we know much more about how often false confessions occur and what can trigger them—fear, cultural differences, sleep deprivation, and feelings of hopelessness, all of which played a role in this case.
https://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/2016/may/henry-wade-executed-innocent-man/

Fritz was using the notorious Reid Technique.

This technique has the aims of obtaining a confession and forming a narrative that incriminates the suspect.

These things are made so much easier when the suspect is kept away from legal counsel and isolated in a situation where the police can say whatever they want without fear of contradiction - except by the accused and who is going to believe them over keepers of the peace?

You can start with the earliest known record of what Oswald said - Hosty's notes and you can then trace the evolving narrative, changing as needed by evidence or witness statement, but always with the aim of keeping the noose around the accused's neck and never letting out any exculpatory evidence.

Fritz retired with a clean up rate of 98%. The average clearance rate in the US now is just over 60%. One year, the Dallas Morning News reported he had solved 59 of 61 homicides. Do the maths... as many as 20 of those convictions were very likely of innocent people, as was the case with Tommy Lee.

So go ahead, defend these murderous thugs in uniforms. 

But I will stick by Bart on this. The Hosty note confirms other pieces of the puzzle found in various reports and news accounts and scurrilously and erroneously labeled "rumor" by the defenders of the thugs. And because it was the truth, it was deep-sixed - but possibly kept by Hosty as some type of insurance for himself.

Bpete.......pass me the bucket. He tried coming at me with this verbal garbage a couple of weeks ago......this guy is boring. Nothing worse than a CTer with cemented beliefs.....

They may not know the difference and think those images are Alt6 and Bernabei drawings.

Maybe we should have an expert label the images for them so as to avoid further questions.

Next we'll need an notarized version.... oy vey

Great reply,Greg.

Nailed it Greg.

"The Hosty note confirms other pieces of the puzzle found in various reports and news accounts and scurrilously and erroneously labeled "rumor" by the defenders of the thugs. And because it was the truth, it was deep-sixed - but possibly kept by Hosty as some type of insurance for himself."

Kept him from transfer to Alaska and just to Kansas perhaps.
The note is original, on a DPD affidavit.
As he would of wrote after the interrogation as FBI agent procedure.
Hosty dropping that LHO went out to watch the P. PARADE from his report is EXPLOSIVE!

Blows apart the scenario the community knows, and will take time for them to accept.

The case for PM being LHO is more than supported.
Cheers, Ed

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Nailed it Greg.

"The Hosty note confirms other pieces of the puzzle found in various reports and news accounts and scurrilously and erroneously labeled "rumor" by the defenders of the thugs. And because it was the truth, it was deep-sixed - but possibly kept by Hosty as some type of insurance for himself."

Kept him from transfer to Alaska and just to Kansas perhaps.
The note is original, on a DPD affidavit.
As he would of wrote after the interrogation as FBI agent procedure.
Hosty dropping that LHO went out to watch the P. PARADE from his report is EXPLOSIVE!

Blows apart the scenario the community knows, and will take time for them to accept.

The case for PM being LHO is more than supported.
Cheers, Ed

The Hosty handwritten note above describing the 11/22 interrogation of LHO at 3:15 pm jibes nicely with the joint Bookhout & Hosty FBI report of 11/22/63 (dictated 11/23, dated 11/23).
 
Hosty note
 
"O stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside  to watch P. Parade.  
 
Bookhout & Hosty FBI report
 
"OSWALD stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. OSWALD claimed to be on the first floor when President JOHN F. KENNEDY passed this building."
 
After Oswald got offed on 11/24, Bookhout writes a new and different FBI report on the same day (dictated 11/24, dated 11/25).
 
Bookhout FBI report
 
"OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-Cola from the soft drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. MR. TRULY was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. OSWALD stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelley, and thereafter went home."

This solo job by Bookhout is different. Why?
 
To those of you out there who stubbornly cling to your pet theories—and Lone Nutter IS A THEORY—you simply cannot dismiss the strong evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was down in front during the time of the assassination.

Well done Greg, I just lack the energy to deal with deniers any more. Too much going on from a research p.o.v. meaning less inet debate. Solves fuck all anyhow. But this time you nailed that twat.

Bill Lovelady:

HSCA Interview.

Audio:  
https://youtu.be/CLk76aWuM5s

 TC:  21:30 and also at 1:25.50


Was there anyone on the steps that you didn't recognise
"No"
And follows up with saying they were all employees of the TSBD

One minute after that whether he has seen LHO on those steps to which eh replies No
Then could he have been there without seeing him: Could have.

barto wrote:Well done Greg, I just lack the energy to deal with deniers any more. Too much going on from a research p.o.v. meaning less inet debate. Solves fuck all anyhow. But this time you nailed that twat.

You have your hands more than full. 

It is what they are avoiding that is the most telling - and that is the records of Fritz and Wade.

What a bunch of bitter c*nts in that google group......enough said already.

They had their toys taken away it appears.

On to bigger and better
Ed