Armstrong On The Cab And Bus Rides

From an recently updated article at Hargroves site.

III. NAYSAYERS

There are some people who believe the bus ride never happened, and that the entire story of the bus ride was fabricated. In order to reach their conclusions these people focus attention on witnesses whose memories are less than perfect, and then continuously criticize these people in an attempt to destroy their credibility. These people often misread witness statements and testimony. They criticize documents without thoroughly understanding what they are reading. Their cited "sources" are often not sources at all and, in some cases, are non-existent. They (naysayers) do this in an attempt to develop and promote their own preconceived ideas and theories. However, when their work is closely scrutinized, it becomes apparent that many of these naysayers have not done their homework. For example:

    Naysayers criticize bus driver Cecil McWatters because he could not positively identify (HARVEY) Oswald as a passenger on his bus. Naysayers ignore McWatters' description of this one passenger and his clothing—a man who rode in the middle of the bus for only 4 minutes. These naysayers forget there were perhaps dozens of bus passengers on several of McWatters' bus runs on 11/22/63, yet they endlessly criticize him for not remembering details about this one passenger.

    Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Milton Jones, who remembered Oswald as a passenger and remembered his light blue jacket and grey pants. Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald sat behind Jones, and only saw Oswald for a few seconds when he boarded and got off McWatters' bus.

    Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Oswald's former landlady Mary Bledsoe, who described Oswalds dark brown shirt, the hole in the sleeve, and the missing buttons very well. Naysayers believe that Oswald changed the shirt he wore to work at his rooming house before he went to the theater, relying on the reports of Kelley and Bookhout. Therefore, naysayers criticize Bledsoe because her description of the shirt matches the shirt Oswald was wearing at the theater when arrested.

    Naysayers claim that Oswald changed his shirt at his rooming house, citing the reports of Kelley and Bookhout, who wrote that Oswald removed a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar and placed it in the lower drawer of his dresser. The problem with their reports is that Oswald did not own a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar. He did own one, and only one, reddish-brown shirt, but this shirt did not have a button down collar (CE 150) and this was the shirt Oswald was wearing when arrested in the Texas Theater. All of Oswald shirts were listed in DPD inventory. In the Warren Volumes these shirts are photographed and identified as WC #150 & 151 & 152-all long sleeved, and not one shirt is reddish-colored, long-sleeved, with a button down collar. WC # 153 & 154 & 155 & 160 are all short sleeved shirts. Oswald could not have removed a reddish-colored, long-sleeved shirt with a button down collar, because he didn't own such a shirt. Oswald did remove one shirt and put it in his dresser drawer, as he told Capt. Fritz. This was his dirty white t-shirt, soiled around the collar.

    Naysayers criticize Mary Bledsoe and say that she did not see Oswald on the bus, because she saw “only a glimpse of him.” Naysayers forget that Oswald rented one of 3 bedrooms in her home and she saw him on a daily basis only 5 weeks before the assassination. He talked on the telephone constantly and interrupted her naps. Mrs. Bledsoe remembered that Oswald often spoke in a foreign language on her telephone. She was very familiar with Oswald's face and physique. Mrs. Bledsoe only needed a “glimpse” of (HARVEY) Oswald to recognize him instantly.

    Naysayers constantly criticize Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley for their less than perfect memories. But Oswald was only in their presence for a mere 4-6 minutes. Naysayers conveniently forget that Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley all remembered that Oswald wore light colored grey pants on the bus and taxi. Oswald told Capt. Fritz that he had changed his dirty trousers (light colored grey pants) in his room. When arrested, Oswald was wearing very dark pants. His dirty light colored grey pants were later found in his room by police. How could Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley have known Oswald was wearing light grey pants on the bus/taxi unless they had personally seen him?

Naysayers claim that McWatters never gave Oswald a bus transfer. If McWatters never gave bus transfer #004459 to Oswald, then perhaps naysayers would care to explain why Dallas Police called the Dallas Transit Division Superintendent. Explain how Mr. F.F. Yates was able to immediately identify McWatters as the driver who issued the bus transfer. Do the naysayers expect us to believe that Dallas Transit supervisors were coerced into going along with a fabricated story that the bus ride never happened?

    Naysayers ignore the fact that transfer #004459 came from McWatters' transfer book. They ignore McWatters' testimony that he remembered giving a transfer to Oswald and a transfer to a blond haired lady when both were getting off the bus. Naysayers ignore Mary Bledsoe's testimony that she spoke briefly with the blond lady when McWatters gave her a transfer. How would Oswald know about a blond-haired lady on McWatters bus unless he had ridden on that bus?

    Naysayers claim the bus transfer at the National Archives does not have a crease in the middle, so it was never folded and put in Oswald's pocket. Naysayers ignore the fact that National Archivist Steve Hamilton confirmed that the bus transfer has a crease in the middle, indicating that it had at one time been folded.

    Naysayers question the number of transfers given out by McWatters on 11/22/63. They know the first transfer McWatters issued was #004452, and they know the police found transfer #004459 in Oswald's shirt pocket. They claim, correctly, that McWatters gave out 8 transfers (#004452 to #004459). But they then claim that because McWatters told the WC that he gave out only two transfers, that 6 transfers were “missing.” Once again, these naysayers are simply misreading testimony. McWatters told the WC, “Yes, sir; I gave him one [bus transfer] about two blocks from where he got on [at Griffin]...that is the transfer because it had my punch mark on it....I gave only two transfers going through town on that trip [going through town on that trip!] and that was at the one stop of where I gave the lady and the gentlemen that got off the bus, I issued two transfers....But that was the only two transfers were issued [on that ONE trip thru town]. Very simple. McWatters issued six transfers prior to picking up Oswald and the blond lady (prior to 12:40 PM). He then issued a transfer to the blond lady and a transfer to Oswald when they got off the bus (circa 12:44 PM).

    Oswald told Capt. Fritz and his interrogators about a blond woman asking William Whaley to call her a taxi, just after Oswald got into Whaley's taxi. William Whaley told the WC the same story--that just after Oswald got into the front seat of his taxi, a blond lady asked him to call a taxi for her. How is it possible that Oswald's and Whaley's stories match perfectly, unless the taxi ride acutally happened and was remembered by both Oswald and Whaley?

    Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald's reference to a blond-haired lady, which he told to Capt. Fritz and numerous law enforcement officers during interrogations, was also remembered by Cecil McWatters, Mary Bledsoe, and Roy Milton Jones.

    Naysayers criticize William Whaley for saying that Oswald had a silverlike strip on his shirt. Naysayers ignore and intentionally overlook that Whaley also said Oswald was wearing a brown long-sleeve shirt and a t-shirt with a soiled collar.

    Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he said Oswald's bracelet was a “stretchband,” when it looks like a “chain link” bracelet. But naysayers, once again, should do their homework. Oswald's bracelet is listed on a DPD property form, found in Box 1, folder 8, item 1 at the Dallas Archives. It is identified as "One I.D. stretch band with 'Lee' inscribed.” Naysayers also fail so explain how Whaley could have known that Oswald was wearing any kind of silver-colored bracelet, unless he saw the bracelet himself on Oswald's left arm while riding in his taxi.

    Naysayers criticize William Whaley when he said that he drove Oswald to Neches and Beckley, because this address is non-existent. Naysayers conveniently fail to remember that Oswald instructed Whaley to drive to the 500 block of N. Beckley. As Whaley was driving south on N. Beckley, Oswald said “this will do.” Whaley then stopped randomly in the street, at an unknown address, and Oswald got out of his taxi. Whaley wrote “500 N. Beckley” in his manifest because that is what he remembered Oswald told him when he first got into his taxi.

    Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he wrote down the time of Oswald's taxi ride incorrectly in his manifest. Naysayers conveniently forget that Whaley explained to the WC that he always wrote the times of his taxi rides in 15-minute intervals. And said that he often wrote two, three, or four of these entries in his manifest at the same time, long after the taxi rides. Whaley said that when he got back to the Union Terminal he made an entry of the trip (to N Beckley) on his manifest for the day.

    Naysayers criticize taxi driver William Whaley for naming the number 3 man in the police lineup as Oswald, when he was identified by the police as the number 2 man. Naysayers ignore the explanation that Whaley gave to the WC. Whaley simply said that LHO, walking from left to the right, was the 3rd man brought out for the lineup. From left to right, according to the police, Oswald was the #2 man.

    Naysayers criticize and criticize these witnesses over the smallest of details, in an attempt to “prove” that the bus and taxi ride never happened. This is the extent of their “research.”

    Naysayers ignore the fact that Capt. Fritz and many law enforcement officers heard Oswald say that he rode a bus, got a bus transfer, got into a taxi, offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and paid an 85 cent fare. The facts are that Mary Bledsoe and Roy Milton Jones testified that Oswald was on McWatters bus, transfer #004459 was found in Oswald's shirt pocket, William Whaley testified that Oswald rode in his taxi, that Oswald offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and that Oswald paid 95 cents in taxi fare. Witness testimony and evidence match pretty well with what Oswald told his interrogators.

    Naysayers criticize, criticize, and criticize these witnesses for not having perfect memories. Yet these naysayers never produce a single document or a single witness by which to prove the taxi and bus ride never happened. Nor can they offer an ounce of PROOF as to what they think COULD HAVE happened—only speculation, fantasies, and daydreams.

To these naysayers, I would ask them to simply identify the person or persons who came up with the idea to fabricate a story in which the bus and taxi rider never happened. I would ask them to name the person or persons who had the knowledge, presence, and ability to fabricate such a hoax within hours of Oswald's arrest..

I would remind naysayers that Oswald himself said during his first and second interrogations that he rode a bus, long before the police knew about Cecil McWatters. And Oswald made these statements in the presence of Capt. Fritz, James Hosty, Thomas Kelley, James Bookhout, and numerous officers. These people took notes, made reports, and/or gave WC testimony about statements made by Oswald. These naysayers would have us believe that a person or persons unknown convinced all of these people (SS agents Kelley, Nully and Forrest: FBI agents Hosty, Grant, Odum and Bookout; US Marshall Nash; Capt Fritz, DPD officers Sims, Boyd, Turner, Hall, Dhority, Owens, Leavelle, and Senkel, taxi driver Whaley, bus driver McWatters, bus passengers Bledsoe and Jones, bus and taxi officials) to lie and go along with a fabricated story that the bus and taxi ride never happened. But no matter how much evidence researchers produce to prove that Oswald rode on a bus and in a taxi on 11/22/63, we can be sure that irresponsible naysayers can and will find the most trivial, superficial, and inconsequential reasons to continue their criticism.

Rather than nit-pick the statements and memories of witnesses who saw “Lee Harvey Oswald” riding in either the station wagon, bus, or taxi, naysayers should study the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows there were two “Lee Harvey Oswalds” who looked very similar. At 12:40 PM LEE Oswald got into a Nash Rambler station wagon in front of the TSBD, while HARVEY Oswald was getting into McWatters' city bus at Elm and Griffin. An hour and a half later HARVEY Oswald was arrested, handcuffed, and sitting in a room at Dallas Police headquarters. When Capt Fritz pointed to Roger Craig and said to Oswald, “This man saw you leave....what about the car?” Oswald replied, “that station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine.....” HARVEY Oswald dared not say any more, but his statement about Mrs. Paine and a station wagon shows that he knew a lot more than what he told his interrogators .

George Lardner, of the Washington Post, reported that “[CIA Director] Richard Helms told reporters that no one would ever know who or what Lee Harvey Oswald...represented.” In 1977 Helms became the only CIA director to be convicted of misleading Congress.

When Capt Fritz pointed to Roger Craig and said to Oswald, “This man saw you leave....what about the car?” Oswald replied, “that station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine


This would be the same Captain Fritz who denied ever having Roger Craig in his office or near Oswald.

Are we sure Armstrong wrote this shite?...it reads like a Doyle post. Can't believe he didn't put "I've won!" at the end of it.

steely dan wrote:Are we sure Armstrong wrote this shite?...it reads like a Doyle post. Can't believe he didn't put "I've won!" at the end of it.

It is an excruciating read.

For example:

Naysayers criticize bus driver Cecil McWatters because he could not positively identify (HARVEY) Oswald as a passenger on his bus.

Ol' shitferbrains Hargroves loves the "conclusion as part of the premise" ploy. You know the one - same ploy used in "when did you stop beating your wife". Although it is entirely possible he is just too stupid to realize that is what he is doing. And you can't beat stupid. 

But being a cantankerous bastard, I'll try again.

The problems, me ol' Baggins, are:

1. you have not proven the existence of any "Harvey"

2. The issue is not that McWatters could not ID Oswald... it is that he makes perfectly clear that he thought he was there to ID the laughing boy who he later learned was a teen named Milton Jones. He picked Oswald as looking closest to Jones. That is not me pulling things out of thin air. McWatters admitted all of this in testimony.

3. You go on and on and on about "naysayers" not taking into account that Jones and McWatters got things wrong because they only had a brief look at Oswald -- yet you maintain that their ID of Oswald is correct (ignoring once again that McWatters believed he was there to ID someone else. You want it both ways. 

There are so many issues with the garbage that Vinny has dumped here, I am concerned about the state of Jim's Mental Elf.

You are hanging on to this by any devious ploy your fetid mind can dream up because you need to escapees - one on the bus and one in a car.

What a sad fucker you are.

Naysayers are sucking all the oxygen out of the room and I'm not getting the attention that I used to get, so I think I'll try to get some.

Mr Armstrong forgot to mention Oswald left the bus wearing a torn and buttonless shirt, then entered the taxi wearing TWO jackets. 
Maybe that's why we naysay...stuff like that.

As well as having absolutely no sense of self awareness the Armstrong cultists have absolutely no sense of irony.
Chiding the " naysayers" for relying on the imperfect memory of witnesses, misreading documents or not understanding what the documents actually say...If I didn't know any better I'd swear this was the outline of a comedy sketch..
Small minded disingenuous motherfuckers like Baggins and Armstrong always manage to reduce everything to meaningless, Manichean duality. False dichotomies In their little world it seems for every Harvey there must be a Lee.... disbelievers and believers.. naysayers and the elect. Them and us. I'm seriously starting to think the whole H andL fantasy is just an attempt to dress up the lone gunman/ Warren Report narrative and make it more palatable for the CT twinkies. No one but Armstrong and tht Warrenistas attempt to put Oswald in the 6th floor window
It should be about trying to get to the fucking truth . not playing infantile games. Trying to score points of self declared enemies and naysayers. I'm so sick of reading Baggins childish taunts ..He doesn't give a fuck about anything. " Research" and " debates" are just more opportunities to bombard the 13 inch head forum with more of his propaganda.
Over 20 fucking years ..the same old crap. 
It's actually profoundly depressing to read such blatant hypocrisy. The whole shoddy H and L edifice has been constructed from hazy decades old memories, the habitual misreading of documents, wholesale manipulation of witnesses memories and documents...plus calculated deceit and attempted sleight of hand.
Baggins is like a washed out hustler, reduced to trawling dingy saloons looking for marks .
I can just imagine Baggins and Armstrong being run out of some provincial backwater.
Characters out of post modernist reimagining of Mark Twain.
Armstrong draped in faux Oriental finery( really the curtains stolen out of the house of the aged widow he'd been curing with his patent " medicines"  picture Fezzo and Butler sloshing about, stirring a zinc bathtub full of theintestines of freshly slaughtered skunks,  the urine samples they'd stolen from the local asylum., mixed with cheap aftershave and highly potent hallucinogens) with a white sheet daubed with  vaguely lascivious graffiti wrapped round his head ..
Baggins in blackface and buckskins.. pretending to be some native American shaman..
As they're chased out of town.. Baggins covered in tar and Armstrong spitting out feathers( almost as many as Larry T when he was runner up in the inaugural Sanibel Cocksucking Olympics...poor Larry T always got his fowls and his phalluses mixed up...)
" We ain't beaten!!" Baggins declares " We've just been tarred and feathered!.."
" Youre right" Armstrong grins, tickling him under the chin with a feather until Jimbo Baggins giggles like Don Jeffries the first time he saw the George Floyd footage .." if we take these feathers down to Sanibel Island and say we plucked 'em off LEE the chicken doppelganger of HARVEY the invisible white rabbit wellw make a fortune!!"
" I like it oh captain of mine soul!! Only narrow minded people naive about pre CIA sperm experiments wouldn't believe the OSS were trying to genetically modify giant invisible white bunny rabbits and giant invisible cockerels with massive peckers..'
' Massive Peckers you say?" Armstrong spits out a feathery mouthful..
" Yes oh great soul, MASSIVE peckers...after Sanibel we could head over to Donnie Jeffries place .giant white cocks, invisible white bunny rabbits and sperm experiments... "

There are so many issues with the garbage that Vinny has dumped here, I am concerned about the state of Jim's Mental Elf.


 Sorry if I upset you by dumping this garbage here, Greg. I did not mean to upset you.

Greg, please accept my apologies in advance for presuming to speak for you.
You need no one, least of all me, speaking for you.
I'll understand completely if you want to delete this message; or administer a swift kick in the Gilbrides for my atrocious  manners.
Vinny, I don't think that comment was in any way aimed at you.
I'm pretty certain Greg's comment was directed at JjmbJ Baggins.
Please Greg don't hesitate to correct my misapprehension if I've picked up the wrong end of the Fez..
Jimbo Baggins constant regurgitation and dissemination needs to be exposed as brutally and as often as possible...( Insert appropriate Sanibel related indecent exposure related gag)
I think Jake or Goban said it best; when Jimbo feels threatened he puffs himself up like some giant bloated fish and excretes a ghastly sticky protozoa and mucus laden  splat of milky ejaculate...all over the eager face of Butler or Swinging Sandy...theres t an image to put you off your supper...
Baggins and co need to be mercilessly ridiculed for the jokers that they undoubtedly are.
Or dragged out into the wonderful cleansing rays of the ROKC sun ..a small but brutally effective star that burst it's way into the sedate 13 inch head nebulae...
The radio telescope Doug Caddy directed out into the vastness of space( searching for the alien presence Tricky Dick Nixon told him would be arfiarri on Earth in late August 2020) picked up a strange transmission
" Fuck all you stupid motherfuckers"

Vinny wrote:There are so many issues with the garbage that Vinny has dumped here, I am concerned about the state of Jim's Mental Elf.


 Sorry if I upset you by dumping this garbage here, Greg. I did not mean to upset you.

Sorry Vinny. Didn't man it to sound like a complaint against you. A lot of things I would miss if you hadn't brought them to my attention here and I do not want you thinking you should stop doing that. It is actually appreciated.

alex wilson wrote:Greg, please accept my apologies in advance for presuming to speak for you.
You need no one, least of all me, speaking for you.
I'll understand completely if you want to delete this message; or administer a swift kick in the Gilbrides for my atrocious  manners.
Vinny, I don't think that comment was in any way aimed at you.
I'm pretty certain Greg's comment was directed at JjmbJ Baggins.
Please Greg don't hesitate to correct my misapprehension if I've picked up the wrong end of the Fez..
Jimbo Baggins constant regurgitation and dissemination needs to be exposed as brutally and as often as possible...( Insert appropriate Sanibel related indecent exposure related gag)
I think Jake or Goban said it best; when Jimbo feels threatened he puffs himself up like some giant bloated fish and excretes a ghastly sticky protozoa and mucus laden  splat of milky ejaculate...all over the eager face of Butler or Swinging Sandy...theres t an image to put you off your supper...
Baggins and co need to be mercilessly ridiculed for the jokers that they undoubtedly are.
Or dragged out into the wonderful cleansing rays of the ROKC sun ..a small but brutally effective star that burst it's way into the sedate 13 inch head nebulae...
The radio telescope Doug Caddy directed out into the vastness of space( searching for the alien presence Tricky Dick Nixon told him would be arfiarri on Earth in late August 2020) picked up a strange transmission
" Fuck all you stupid motherfuckers"

No. You got it exactly right. Poor choice of words in saying "dumped" but when you're talking about shit, it sounded right.

Thanks Greg. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

My article on this published on John Kelin's old "Fair Play."  Oswald and McWatters.

Additionally from my blog.  Lifton, The Education Forum, The Mary Bledsoe Story, and Lies, Lies, Lies - Updated

Also, sources for the above article.

Lastly, Additional evidence confirms that Oswald's escape from Dealey Plaza via public transportation was a fiction.

I hope this serve as nails in the coffin on Oswald's alleged escape via public transportation story.  I know it won't for Hargrove and Armstrong.  But, for sane people it should.  

Joseph Backes

Joseph Backes wrote:My article on this published on John Kelin's old "Fair Play."  Oswald and McWatters.

Additionally from my blog.  Lifton, The Education Forum, The Mary Bledsoe Story, and Lies, Lies, Lies - Updated

Also, sources for the above article.

Lastly, Additional evidence confirms that Oswald's escape from Dealey Plaza via public transportation was a fiction.

I hope this serve as nails in the coffin on Oswald's alleged escape via public transportation story.  I know it won't for Hargrove and Armstrong.  But, for sane people it should.  

Joseph Backes

Thanks Joe, agreed on all counts.