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Greg_Doudna
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Join date : 2020-09-21

An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Sat 17 Oct 2020, 5:43 am
Greg P., that's a sign of honesty, being affected by evidence even when it means altering former views. 
 
I agree you show a third occasion of Ruth visiting Marina by car which means the possibility of Ruth driving Marina to pick up the rifle is not excluded or falsified on chronological grounds. (But the perceived positive argument from coincidence for invoking Ruth's involvement in the first place is gone.)
 
Let me suggest some conjectures pointing to a different and I think better line of solution: related to the Walker shooting. This is difficult to sort out but here is my thinking. First, from the missing part of the post office box order form naming others who had access, I am going to speculate that missing piece is intentional to cover up something, as opposed to accidental and routine. The question is what names if any would have been on the missing part of that form. If it was "Alex Hiddel" only, there would be no reason to conceal that since that supports an acknowledged narrative in which Lee used that alias. The coverup would be of some other name of a real person. Holmes of the post office testified that records showed only one key was issued for that box to Lee. I am going to conjecture that Lee had the key and did all of his pickups at that post office, and that he was driven some of the times especially when the rifle was involved.
 
Who was Lee hanging around with? The Warren Commission portrayed Lee as a loner. However a witness, Juanita Buchanan, who with her husband owned the Eldorado Bar on Haskell Avenue, said Oswald came in on two occasions with Bill Duff, a former employee in General Walker's house who was himself a suspect in the Walker shooting. Furthermore, one of the two occasions Juanita saw Oswald with Duff was the evening of the Walker shooting. These are identified as notes of Irving Heineman from conversations with Sue Fitch concerning an interview of Juanita Buchanan.
 
---(start quote)---
 
"Bill Duff, whom she calls Scotty, came in (...) He said that he was General Walker's house guest but he expressed hatred for General Walker.
 
"Duff came in the place twice with Oswald. He introduced him as Lee (last name not remembered--he never called him Oswald). She is positive that it was Oswald. Oswald did not have much to say. The night of the Walker shooting, they were in the place on Haskell together and left about 8 p.m. Duff came back about 11:30 p.m. and she had heard on the radio about the shooting at Walker's house. She asked Duff, ‘Why did you try to shoot at General Walker? He is a pretty good old boy,’ Duff turned white as a sheet, left, and never came back (...)
 
"The night of the Walker shooting the police arrived about 30 minutes after Duff left, looking for Duff. He was arrested. Oswald was also arrested. The car was traced to Duff. The boy in the back of Walker's house got the license number of Duff's rented car, a foreign make.
 
"Duff moved into the Hidden Hills with Chuck Holloway. He had two rifles and a couple of pistols. Two men moved into Hidden Hills and asked Duff to help them kill Walker; offered him $25,000 and gave him $5,000. Duff got suspicious and went to the FBI (to see Hosty). Duff left town and went to Oklahoma where he said he was going to join the army (...) The Eldorado bar was the regular meeting place of Ruby, Oswald, Duff and Tippit (…)
 
"Ruby came to her place three days before the assassination, trying to buy the place. She has had several telephone calls saying ‘if you know what's good for you you will keep your damn mouth shut’.”
 
(http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4376-reasons-of-state/?ct=1602791939)
 
---(end quote)--- 
 
OK, analysis. Duff himself from FBI documents was a low-life, untruthful, a storyteller, diagnosed medically as a “pathological liar”—not the most reliable witness. But the part about Oswald with him the night of the Walker shooting is not from Duff but Juanita. The part about Duff’s arrest undoubtedly comes from Duff (Juanita was told that by Duff), but that part was also judged truthful by Walker investigators. However, Duff’s denial that he never knew Oswald, read that as untruthful.
 
This is in the time frame of the post office box of Lee and the rifle shipment, and Lee is in association with Duff who drives. Is the witness, Juanita, credible? I think yes, despite the initial aversion some might have to seeing Oswald linked with Ruby. Closer reading does not have Juanita linking Oswald to Ruby. Oswald is linked only to Duff. Oswald was remembered by Juanita as having been in the place two times, each time only with Duff. Duff is the one linked to Ruby and Tippit, by Juanita saying they patronized her bar.
 
This goes to the issue of the Walker shooting. I think, as the Dallas police themselves suspected who originally reported to the scene, that that was not an attempted murder but only staged to look like one. But Oswald is not on his own the night of the Walker shooting. He is with Duff. I think Duff and Oswald were paid to shoot into an empty room. There is only Walker's sayso that he was even sitting at his desk when the shot supposedly barely but fortuitously missed him completely as told in the news coverage that followed. 
 
Then there is a whole story about Walker men subsequently covertly recording and unsuccessfully trying to set up Duff to get him to admit on tape that he had shot at Walker (which, per the reconstruction here, was actually the case, with Oswald), and even more seriously, get Duff on tape and arrested for planning to murder Walker for real a second time for a huge sum of money, in a "sting" operation which failed because Duff informed the FBI. If that sting had been successful Duff would have been discredited even further if he did try to claim the earlier shooting was staged.
 
The Walker shooting, which was not an attempted murder per reconstruction here, becomes done by Oswald and Duff, not Duff alone or Oswald alone. Who was the orchestrator of it? Was it Robert Surrey, the assistant of Walker? Surrey was a Nazi (also an informant?), in touch with and host in Dallas for George Lincoln Rockwell. Two of Surrey's sons, David and Bill, each have Utube video interviews accessible online. David claims his father knew Oswald and took Oswald shooting in the woods recreationally with him and young David, though David’s story has its problems (not in sincerity but in accuracy). As a side note, unexplained in Oswald's address book is address information of George Lincoln Rockwell the Nazi leader; where did that come from?
 
If Oswald and Duff were the shooters at Walker, this would account for the sighting of two men leaving in a car as the ones who did the shooting, rather than an Oswald taking flight alone on foot. Often the two in the car is cited by researchers as exculpatory of Oswald having been involved at all; instead read Oswald as one of those two. Oswald and Duff as the shooters would be basically consistent with most of Marina's account of Oswald of that evening, although Marina either does not know or chose not to tell that Oswald was with someone and the two used a car. But Oswald was not attempting murder, nor was he acting alone on this occasion, per present reconstruction.
 
Walker later made a big issue of a claim that Oswald had been arrested the night of the shooting but treacherously (from Walker's point of view) Oswald had been released on orders of Robert F. Kennedy, head of the Justice Department. Everyone has blown off that story but, apart from the claim of an actual Oswald arrest (no DPD records support that) I don't think that story should be so quickly blown off. In the present reconstruction that story, like Marina’s account, also becomes basically correct, at least as a version of what happened. What may actually have happened was Duff picked up by police for questioning following which he was released, but no actual questioning or arrest of Oswald even though he could easily also have been named and picked up, depending on how much Duff talked. Both the release of Duff and the non-pickup of Oswald would be after some word of intervention asked for that—portrayed by Walker subsequently as “Robert Kennedy told the police to release the man who tried to assassinate me!” A version of this story was reported in the tabloid press and is usually dismissed for that reason, but I think it indeed is a version of what happened; and it is not just sourced from tabloids but was claimed by Walker repeatedly to be certain knowledge known to him. Of course Walker could have invented that out of whole cloth. But consider alternatively that what Walker was saying was basically true with some Walker spin (such as the naming of Robert Kennedy whom he loathed, as personally giving the order; also Walker leaving out the slight detail that the shot had been staged by his own people). 
 
There is a separate story of a Russian emigre acquaintance of De Mohrenschildt, Natasha Voshinin, being told by De Mohrenschildt a few days later that De Mohrenschildt feared Oswald could have done the shooting, and she called and told the FBI that (interview of Natasha Voshinin to Dick Russell 4/5/92, The Man Who Knew Too Much, pp. 317-18). But nothing happened; there is no record Oswald was questioned. This is consistent with a request from an agency to local law enforcement and/or FBI to not touch Oswald. Typically, police and agencies quietly accommodate each other in requests of this nature, rendering outwardly unusual law enforcement behavior explicable. The behavior described on the part of law enforcement in terms of the Walker shooting is explicable if Oswald was working for an agency. It also explains why there never was another resolution or closure to the Walker shooting case.
 
The Walker shooting therefore need not be interpreted in ways claiming that Oswald was not involved, but at the same time this explanation does not make Oswald an attempted murderer either.
 
Post-JFK assassination the story would become one in which Oswald alone had done the Walker shooting as a lone nut, which by the interpretation here is modification of what happened. (For some reason in the standard tellings of the WC and mainstream narrative regarding the JFK assassination, Oswald, and the Walker shooting, Duff just disappeared from consciousness and history as if he never existed.) If the rifle pickup from the post office was not done by Oswald walking or taking a bus there, and involved being driven, the driving would be by someone such as Surrey or Duff or whoever, but not Marina or the even less likely Ruth Paine. Since the date and time of Lee’s rifle pickup is not known, Lee could have picked it up anytime the post office was open and had personnel at the counter e.g. on a Saturday when Lee was not at work if the post office was open Saturdays. Marina’s explanations of Lee without a car doing the Walker shooting, whether Marina had been told that by Lee and believed it, or Marina conjectured it, or Marina purposely made it up—in any case are questionable. Both the witnesses at the scene telling of two fleeing in a car, and a simple likelihood of logistics, argues that a car was involved. 
 
Marina claimed she knew nothing of how Lee obtained the rifle:
 
“With regard to the rifle which Oswald had at the Neeley address and at the Paine garage, Marina advised she did not recall when Oswald had purchased the rifle, nor did she know where he purchased it until she found this out from the publicity resulting from the assassination of the President.” (FBI interview of Marina 12/16/63, Boguslav and Heitman)
 
I think Marina knew more than she said (a wife who never thinks to ask her husband where a newly-appearing rifle came from?). But it is also plausible to me that Lee, involved in something covert with that rifle order, would not ask Marina ever to traverse the long distance to the post office or be involved in picking up packages, nor would Lee ask Ruth Paine visiting from Irving as a favor to drive him or Marina to pick up the rifle package and drop it off to him either. The time and logistics of Lee’s picking up the rifle from the post office is not a problem requiring invocation of Ruth Paine or her car into the story to solve. To the extent there was a car involved with Lee and the rifle and the Walker shooting, the missing link would be not the entirely-uninvolved-in-this Ruth Paine but rather someone in the Walker circle of Dallas with whom Oswald was in witnessed association and with whom he was involved in the Walker shooting.
 
There is also the strange story of the private security consultant, ex HL Hunt man, Brad Angers, told in Dick Russell's book in which Angers tells of Larrie Schmidt being beaten up by unknown assailants soon after the JFK assassination, who warned him, Larrie, to keep HL Hunt's name out of any statements. (Although I have never read anyone suggesting this, from my reading of Angers' account I suspect Angers himself had something to do with that assault on Schmidt.) Angers assists Schmidt after the assault and tape-records a story of Schmidt in which Schmidt tells of he and his brother driving around with Oswald the night of the shooting and then Oswald doing the shooting of Walker. Larrie Schmidt's brother worked for Walker. It is a variant story of Oswald in a car involved with Walker people knowledgeable of the shooting of Walker; note the similarities to the independent stories of Duff and the shooting, both involving Oswald. (In Gayle Nix Jackson's book, she located and interviewed Larrie Schmidt and Larrie denied having met Oswald, for what that is worth.)
 
The rifle which did the Walker shooting, according to Oswald according to Marina, was Lee’s rifle, the one shipped by Klein's to Oswald's post office box. I do not think it is coincidence that a mail-order firearm involved in an investigation related to the Dodd subcommittee, and someone involved in that (Oswald), was part of an inside staged shot at Walker, though the specifics of reasons and reconstruction are not clear. From Walker’s point of view the ideal public nationwide reporting would be an unsolved shooting widely suspected (even if never proven) to come from communists and/or Kennedys on the left, the dastardly Kennedys and/or their communist sympathizers trying to assassinate America’s foremost conservative public figure. One way of helping a crime remain unsolved (against local police and prosecutors normal tendency to attempt to solve crimes) would be to have it unsolved by request from an agency because arrests and/or prosecution would compromise “sensitive sources and methods”, to use that overused expression. (In Walker’s case, it would compromise the claim that it was an assassination attempt at all.) I don’t know that that was what was going on and this is not essential to the rest of the reconstruction. 
 
I admit there is a lot of speculation here. Whether or not all specifics are right I think this reconstruction is in the ballpark of better solutions to some of the problems involved with the Klein's rifle order, the Dodd subcommittee investigation, the Walker shooting, and Marina's description of Oswald's role in that shooting.
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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Mon 19 Oct 2020, 9:54 am
Greg, not ignoring this.

There are parts that I agree with, parts that I am ambivalent about, and one part in particular with which I disagree entirely.

I am snowed under at the moment, but will get to it ASAP.

_________________
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              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
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Greg_Doudna
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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Mon 19 Oct 2020, 4:53 pm
No problem Greg P. Three corrections to my above: first, correct the point about the witness (Coleman) seeing two men leave in a car from Walker's. According to FBI interview reports on Mary Ferrell the witness saw two men each individually getting into two cars (not two into one car), and it is not clear in any case that the shooter or shooters would run to a car in such visibility with people who could see a license plate following the sound of the shot. (However, an Associated Press wire report dated April 12, 1963 had, "A youngster told police he saw several men jump into a car and speed away from the area in a swank part of Dallas" [https://jfkscoup.wordpress.com/2019/08/22/the-anomaly-of-the-general-walker-bullet/]).

Therefore the story of Oswald mediated through Marina and also Brad Angers' hearsay of a shooter on foot who runs away on foot could be correct (with maybe a car pickup elsewhere out of range of the immediate vicinity); uncertain on the specifics. What the witness saw could be men from Walker's house reacting to the shot, or unrelated and part of the church activity where those cars were parked.
 
Second, Duff was understood by Walker's investigators to have told someone that he had fired the shot, which could have been a slight exaggeration if he assisted, and the attempt to get him on tape bragging of what he had done would make sense if Duff had been involved. On the other hand Marina says Oswald told her he took the shot, and the following is why that may more likely the truth (Oswald's lack of prior history or expertise as an assassin being entirely irrelevant here as will become immediately clear). Often radical groups suspicious of newcomers, wondering if they are undercover police or informants, have them to prove their bonafides by asking them to participate in some risky or illegal activity. If Oswald was an informant or infiltrator (very plausible) this could be such a situation, in which the shot through Walker's picture window was essentially imposed on Lee to do as a request. If he wished to proceed with the infiltration he had to go along with it, do it, but it was not an idea he initiated. Also, the way it would have been presented to Lee would not be asking him or offering to hire him to murder, but rather a dare/request to him to fire a single shot through a plate glass window with no one on the other side, with the idea that it would, as Lee would be told, scare Walker, and the room in fact was empty when the shot was fired. Walker then telling the police he was in the room and almost killed would be Walker's embellishment and I suspect a surprise to Lee hearing that later on the radio. Firing into an empty room in which no one would be physically bodily harmed (one hoped) might be somewhat easier for someone in an infiltrator's position to go along with. Also, Oswald may not have been infiltrating Walker's people per se but rather the FBI-targeted Minutemen and/or Nazis, that is, Surrey's group (who happened to be working for Walker).  

The shot was risky; if Lee had been caught he would have been charged but (so Lee would have understood) with a charge less serious than attempted murder. Lee took precautions for Marina's sake in case he was caught with the list of instructions. I believe this scenario I have outlined makes better sense than the ideas of Lee acting as a lone maniac intent on murder in taking that shot as everyone has supposed.

And third, cancel my early paragraph on the missing bottom portion of the post office box application form as being intentional coverup of identity of name or names. I see no reason to suppose that. Having used many post office boxes I know how mail not addressed to me can end up in my p.o. box. All Lee had to do was, with a box taken out in his own name, test to see whether an innocuous package would come through to him addressed to "A. Hidell", and if that worked, then order the rifle. A possible explanation for why the bottom portion of the form might not have been saved would be if there were no other names listed there than Lee's, so no point, from the local post office's point of view, in keeping that part of the form on file. Also, an FBI document says FBI investigation found that "Oswald did not indicate on his application that others....would receive mail through the box in question" (https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11432&search=who_killed+kennedy+claims+and+results+of+investigation#relPageId=5&tab=page). The document does not explain how the FBI came to that finding, but it is what FBI reported as distinguished from saying the point was unknown or indeterminate.
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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Fri 23 Oct 2020, 12:56 pm
Holmes of the post office testified that records showed only one key was issued for that box to Lee. I am going to conjecture that Lee had the key and did all of his pickups at that post office, and that he was driven some of the times especially when the rifle was involved.

Holmes' testimony about a key was only in regard to the box taken out on Nov 1. And yes, Oswald would have held that since he could easily walk to the post office from the TSBD at lunch time. In fact, there was some testimony that he did leave the building during some lunch periods. 

It is suspicious that the names of people able to use the first box (the weapons box) were not discussed in testimony, nor was the number of keys. As you show, we only know the name Hidell was not listed because the FBI was rebuttng claims made in one of the early books. If the FBI knew "Hidell" was not listed, they must have seen that part of the form. So why is it not in the archives - and again, why was it not discussed by the WC with Holmes? 

Marina was listed in New Orleans and would have had her own key.

It makes sense that the same applied for this first box since it was not close enough to where Oswald worked for him to collect the mail.

If Marina had a key and had access, that alone was reason enough for that part of the paper work to go missing and not be discussed during testimony. And you cannot bring Marina in as the only viable alternative to Lee, without also bringing in Ruth.


(In Gayle Nix Jackson's book, she located and interviewed Larrie Schmidt and Larrie denied having met Oswald, for what that is worth.)
Larrie was played like a fiddle by Robert Morris.

The member of Larrie's gang worth noticing is the one no one mentions. Bill Burley. Burley hit the road running straight after the assassination.

The Walker story as it pertains to eventually pointing at Oswald is a long one. Maybe some other time.


The rifle which did the Walker shooting, according to Oswald according to Marina, was Lee’s rifle, the one shipped by Klein's to Oswald's post office box. 

Marina could not tell the difference betwen a rifle and a shot gun. By Dec 2, 1963, Marina had caved in and said whatever they wanted her to say. Her husband was dead. She had two babies. But she had been given immunity from deportation and tens of thousands of dollars was hers for the taking if she cooporated. 

She did what she had to do for herself and the kids and since then, she obviously lost all respect for the authorities and society generally and started sating whatever came into her head, or whatever may bring in more money. 

People in her situation either become martyrs to their moral code, capitulate and then withdraw from society forever, hating themselves, or decide to join them in their cynical exploitation of the events. 

She did the latter.


Last edited by greg_parker on Sat 24 Oct 2020, 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
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-----------------------------
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Greg_Doudna
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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Sat 24 Oct 2020, 8:31 am
@greg_parker wrote:
If Marina had a key and had access, that alone was reason enough for that part of the paper work to go missing and not be discussed during testimony. And you cannot bring Marina in as the only viable alternative to Lee, without also bringing in Ruth.

Again there is no need to suppose Marina went to that post office box or that any driver need be involved, since there is no logistical problem with Saturday pickups of packages by Lee on Lee's day off. Also, whether the post office box form did or did not list the alias "Alex Hiddel", would a post office employee hand over a large package addressed to "Alex Hidell" to a woman who is clearly not him. It is not clear what problem you are seeing that Marina being assisted by Ruth Paine is proposed to solve.

On the earlier discussion concerning your reconstruction that Ruth testified deceitfully in major ways with respect to the Shasteen barbershop, I have since found a document that renders that discussion obsolete. As you recall the debate essentially came down to whether Shasteen's customer said by Shasteen to have been Oswald was or was not a mistaken identification. Ruth Paine in her testimony said there were no barbershop trips of Oswald in Irving. You say Shasteen's identification was not mistaken and therefore Ruth Paine was deceptive in major ways.

I found the barber who actually did cut Oswald's hair in the Oct 4-Nov 22 period, one Herman Harrison of Harrison's Barber Shop, 2005 North Beckley. That is about 1.2 miles from Oswald's North Beckley address. "He recalls having cut Lee Harvey Oswald's hair on two occasions".  

Two haircuts in a seven-week period, spaced ca. 4-6 weeks apart, is about right for an average man not overly concerned with fashion. Those two haircuts near his North Beckley address satisfactorily account for all haircuts Oswald would reasonably be expected to have obtained in this time period, and corroborate Ruth Paine as not being deceptive on this matter.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672&relPageId=240&search=harrison%27s_barber%20shop

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673&relPageId=31&search=harrison%27s_barber%20shop
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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

on Sat 24 Oct 2020, 10:51 am
Again there is no need to suppose Marina went to that post office box or that any driver need be involved, since there is no logistical problem with Saturday pickups of packages by Lee on Lee's day off. Also, whether the post office box form did or did not list the alias "Alex Hiddel", would a post office employee hand over a large package addressed to "Alex Hidell" to a woman who is clearly not him. It is not clear what problem you are seeing that Marina being assisted by Ruth Paine is proposed to solve.
If Saturday is the solution, I wonder why the WC and no lone nutter's since have given it as the likely date - expecially when Monday poses the same problem for Oswald as any other work day?

As for the parcel being given to a female, as I have explained before, the order was made by "A Hidell", no gender asked on the form and no indication given such as "Mr" etc. In short, "A Hidell" could be male or female.

What problem does Marina and Ruth solve? The problem of Oswald being at work all day on the day of the order and again on the day of the alleged collection.

What we do know is that Ruth picked Marina up on the day of the order and was very vague about what they did and where they went. We also know Ruth picked her up again on some unpecified date after March 20 (the date the weeapons were dispached) and took her back to Irving. 

We know that some time after that, Marina allegedly took photos of Oswald holding the rifles and with a pistol in a hoslter, while he held two opposing leftist papers and dressed in revolutionary black.

Yet Marina thought the camera was held to the eyes (it was held at the waist - not a detail you are likely to forget), she was initially certain she took just one photo, and she could not tell a shotgun from a rifle. Nor was the black clothing ever found. 

Oswald himself denied owning a rifle and claimed the photos were not of him, but had his head plastered on. They do have him claiming he owned a pistol, but they had to put those words in his mouth since they attempted to plant it on him.

I believe Oswald's denials. The police should have as well since the denials in the manner made, fit the pop psychology signs police are taught to look for in determining lies from truth. 

Apart from that, the photos really are fake - and when real science gets a chance, that will be proven.

Well done on finding Herman Harrison. 

We do know the FBI would have been desparate to disprove Shasteen. To do that, they had to find another barber.

Did Harrison come forward? We are not told.

Did Harrison provide a description of the person he believed was Oswald? Was he even asked for one? We are not told in either event.

Did Harrison provide approximate dates this customer came in? We are not told.

The lack of detail points to this being a misidentifaction that the FBI does not want to expose as a misidentifaction.

Shasteen's description of Oswald's hairy arms was accurate.

Shasteen's description of Oswald's hair always looking like it was a week overdue for a cut was accurate.

Shasteen's description of military coverall's that were way too big for Oswald matches what could be a pair of army coveralls belonging to Mike Paine left in the garage for Mike to wear while tinkering.

Shasteen's description of the car matches Ruth's car.

Shasteen saw the same man with Ruth and Marina over at the grocery store. He also saw him once at the drug store. 

Lee got his hair cut at Shasteen's - a very short walk from Ruth's and far more convenient than a two and a half mile round trip walk to and from Harrison's starting out from 1026 N Beckley - a place Oswald did not even live at.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity - Page 2 Empty Re: An Examination of Ruth and Michael Paine's level of Complicity

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