Altgens and LBJ security response

Taking a fresh look at Altgens 6, and notice the door of the white car carrying LBJ's security detail - two vehicles further back from the president's limousine - is partly open and a Secret Service guy can be glimpsed getting out, rifle in hand. 

Curious how fast LBJ's detail is responding, relative to JFK's.

In the president's limousine you can see Connally turning sharply to his right, and behind him, Kennedy's reflex response - raised arm, bunched fist - obviously already hit. 

So if LBJ's SS guy is already getting out of the car, how many seconds did it take for him to recognise a potential threat - bearing in mind he was in a 'closed' vehicle so must have relied on what he heard rather than saw - and push open the door. Unless he had a superhuman response mechanism, surely we're looking at 3-5 seconds minimum. Meaning he would have heard shots 3-5 seconds before the photo was taken. Not my area of expertise, so I'm just wondering how that squares with the 'accepted' timeline.

Here's a good-sized image of Altgens 6 for ref:

https://eu-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwmhagency.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FJames-Altgens-Photo-Showing-JFKs-Car-And-Depository-Very-Large-Version.jpg&sp=1609336903Td74a321347618019b425ce300b3113f62bd32b3066af45681e0c0b25ea8a1941

Many of JFK's agents had been out drinking until early in the morning and were likely still hungover. That might explain their slow reactions.

orangebicycle wrote:Here's a good-sized image of Altgens 6 for ref:

https://eu-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwmhagency.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F01%2FJames-Altgens-Photo-Showing-JFKs-Car-And-Depository-Very-Large-Version.jpg&sp=1609336903Td74a321347618019b425ce300b3113f62bd32b3066af45681e0c0b25ea8a1941

 Link is not working.

Startpage.com has encountered an error. Please try again. Many thanks for your patience and understanding.

You're right, least some of the SS detail were seriously hungover. But you'd think that however hungover they were the sound of 'firecrackers' would have sparked them into action. They were obviously no James Bonds, despite the shades and the sharp suits.

This link seems to work ok

https://eu-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fed%2Fd1%2F927bfb3f4d75b638673ff2cc79b4%2F171025-jfk-shooting-ap-1160.jpg&sp=1609415373Te0d28e0e3bd99dd9f60f2d7888ce527044c578765d9c6cc84901de06d9239d66

Orange - if you look around in the picture, there is a wide variety of reactions. We obviously know that Kennedy's been hit two times - from the back and through the neck, since this photo corresponds to roughly Z240 or so. But I think one single photo capture doesn't necessarily tell us that LBJ's agents were already reacting to the shots. Kennedy's agent did start to react as he's looking back toward the building. So I think the "LBJ's agents reacted before Kennedy's" theory is a wash IMO.

PS - I found a pretty high res hosted version of the photo and posted it above since yours is not working.

I think this has been discussed before now but I'm almost certain there are other images of follow vehicles from other parades which show car doors open from time to time. I may be relying on my faulty memory but I'm sure I've seen the pics somewhere. From memory it was claimed it was part of the SS procedures.

The following diary entry I made on my site earlier in 2020 upset a few CTers....long may they be so

Ochus Campbell and Betty Dragoo in Altgens 6.

Happy New year!!! 

Thanks Mick, Vinny and JFK. The issue with the link I was posting was the Startpage search engine I use for finding images doesn't seem too sympatico with ROKC.

I take on board your comment, Mick, about an open car door being standard procedure, so I checked through some of the footage online of the motorcade on Houston, and found the Hughes footage shows the LBJ detail car door opening as the vehicle approaches the turn onto Elm. That might or might not be significant. At the very least it suggests LBJ's security guys recognised a slow turn beneath high rise buildings as a potential security risk in a way that Kennedy's failed to or had been told to ignore.

That high-res (4251 x 2762 px) Altgens image should hopefully be viewable here : 

https://jfk.boards.net/thread/27/altgens-6-high-resolution

Looking again, I'm still not clear exactly what the hand is holding, if anything. The positioning of the fingers seems consistent with holding a rifle, but there's no barrel visible above the window. That said, there does seem to be a diagonal shape running across the guy's chest. An AR-15, maybe?

orangebicycle wrote:Thanks Mick, Vinny and JFK. The issue with the link I was posting was the Startpage search engine I use for finding images doesn't seem too sympatico with ROKC.

I take on board your comment, Mick, about an open car door being standard procedure, so I checked through some of the footage online of the motorcade on Houston, and found the Hughes footage shows the LBJ detail car door opening as the vehicle approaches the turn onto Elm. That might or might not be significant. At the very least it suggests LBJ's security guys recognised a slow turn beneath high rise buildings as a potential security risk in a way that Kennedy's failed to or had been told to ignore.

That high-res (4251 x 2762 px) Altgens image should hopefully be viewable here : 

https://jfk.boards.net/thread/27/altgens-6-high-resolution

Looking again, I'm still not clear exactly what the hand is holding, if anything. The positioning of the fingers seems consistent with holding a rifle, but there's no barrel visible above the window. That said, there does seem to be a diagonal shape running across the guy's chest. An AR-15, maybe?

I'll have a hunt about for the pics I've mentioned. I'm certain I've seen them but they're from other parades. As for Rufus Youngblood the SS agent travelling with Johnson, he claimed to have pushed Johnson to the floor and shielded him with his body after the car had turned into Elm St.

Page 13 of the “Presidential Motorcade Schematic Listing” states that the left rear door of the VP Secret Service car was open throughout the motorcade.

[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/M Disk/Motorcade Route/Item 15.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Motorcade%20Route/Item%2015.pdf[/url]

Seemed a normal security practice when the motorcade approached a slow turn.
A couple of examples from other JFK motorcades.