Geraldean Reid

First topic message reminder :

Robert Groden's Absolute Proof has been out for one week, and I obtained a copy at the COPA conference. I've only had time to flip through it  the plane ride back home, but will say it's aptly titled. There is some stunning stuff in here that's going to reshape my thinking on what actually occurred on that black day in Dallas. This book would be a great Christmas present to yourself. I think it's going to become something you can't do without, to stay current with the discussions about November 22. Seriously, it'll completely overhaul what you presently think you may know about the wounds to both JFK and Connally. And what's in the Z-film.

In the interests of JFK research, because it pertains to the recent discussions about Prayer Man, I'm posting Groden's interview with his mystery witness who said she was with Oswald at the time the shooting erupted. Contrary to popular belief, she isn't Geneva Hine. And contrary to popular belief, Mrs. Robert A. Reid is not Geraldine (or Jeraldean) Reid.

********************************

Quite a few years ago, I was given a lead about a key witness who was employed in the Texas School Book Depository. Her name was Geraldine Reid, and her interview conditions included no taping of her story and no revealing the story while she was alive. I recently received word and confirmation of her passing. At the time I did the interview, the witness appeared to be in her late seventies to early eighties. The interview took place near Fort Worth. She is mentioned only once in the Warren volumes, but was perhaps the single most important witness in the Kennedy case....

Geraldine Reid

The Warren Commission spoke to a Depository employee witness who they simply refer to as "Mrs. Robert Reid," failing to refer to her real first name, which was Delores. She was standing in front of the Book Depository as the motorcade drove by.

However, there was a second Mrs. Reid who worked on the second floor of the Book Depository. Her name was Geraldine Reid. The Warren Commission avoided mentioning this Mrs. Reid like the plague. She was flown to Washington and interrogated by the Commission. Her testimony was so devastating to their preconceived conclusion of Oswald's guilt that they buried all references to her. She said, "I was threatened to keep my mouth shut, or else."

Anyone reading the testimony of "Mrs. Robert Reid" would naturally assume that there had been only one 'Mrs. Reid'. In fact there were two: Mrs. Robert Reid (Delores) and Mrs. Geraldine Reid. Here, for the first time, is Geraldine Reid's story:

About one minute before the fatal shots were fired at the motorcade, Lee Oswald walked into the office across the second floor hallway from the snack room where he had been eating his lunch. He wanted to buy a bottle of soda and did not have the required change for the machine. He walked up to Geraldine Reid at her desk and handed her a dollar bill and asked her for change.

"Mr. Oswald didn't like pennies. I remember that," she recalled. "As I was counting out the change, I heard what I later learned were gunshots. Mr. Oswald and I looked at each other quizzically for a moment, but neither of us said anything about the sounds. I did not know that they were shots at the time. I gave Mr. Oswald the change and he turned and walked back into the hallway toward the snack room. That's the last time I saw him until he passed by me a few minutes later as he was leaving the building."

Approximately seventy-two seconds after the shots ended and Oswald had returned to the snack room to buy a soda from the machine, Officer Marrion Baker and Oswald's boss, Roy Truly, confronted him in the snack room. Truly told Baker that it was alright and that Oswald, in fact, worked for him. At that time, Truly mentioned to Lee that President Kennedy had been shot. Oswald seemed genuinely surprised. Baker and Truly then left the lunchroom and headed upstairs to investigate further. In the meantime, someone had informed Geraldine Reid about the assassination.

Geraldine Reid's final encounter with Lee Oswald occurred a few minutes later. "The last time I saw Mr. Oswald, he was leaving the building," Reid stated. "As he passed me by, I noticed that he had his jacket slung over his arm. I told him that the President had just been shot and he simply said 'Oh?' or something like that, and kept on walking out of the office to go downstairs and, I assume, out of the building."

**********************************

Groden also spoke with a corroborating witness, an ONI investigator, who confirmed that she had been interviewed by the Warren Commission and who "saw suppressed documents on her."

bump

Dunno i'm a n00b 'kay

Reid testified that she left to watch the parade alone and returned to the office alone.

Geneva Hine testified that she told all the female office workers that she would look after the phone so they could go down and watch. She saw no one after that until a group came back up which she testified included Mr. Williams, Mr. Molina, Miss Martha Reed, Mrs. Reid, Mrs. Sarah Stanton, and Mr. Campbell adding that's all I recall, sir. 

So there could have been more. In any case, given Hine's generous offer, Reid's testimony of being so keen to see the parade that she rushed through lunch and phoned her husband for an update on progress, makes a mockery of her other claims of not keeping an eye on the time, and not going down with the other women. Her own testimony makes her suspicious.

CE1381 contains all the FBI reports showing where people were at the time of the shots. I checked the reports on her workmates Bonnie Richey, Caroline Arnold, Virgie Baker (nee Rachley),Mrs Dragoo, and Mrs Johnson. I also checked the statements of Truly and Occhus Campbell.

The only person among all of those to place Geraldean in this group was Campbell. And Campbell was someone who seems to have changed his original story, so is hardly someone to be trusted by the time CE1381 was being put together.

If Geraldean was not where she said she was, and she was not still up in the office, there seems to be only two other possibilities - she watched the motorcade with some of those she was seen returning with - excluding Campbell - or - she was in the conference room on the second floor and came out when she heard the other girls come back and appeared to be one of that group to Hine. For some reason, Reid was questioned closely about this room, and it would explain staying up on the 2nd floor without being seen by Hine.

Mr. BELIN. How far did you see him [Oswald] go?


Mrs. REID. I didn't turn around to look. He went on straight, he did not go on past the back door because I was facing that way. What he did after that---


Mr. BELIN. But you know he did not go out the same back door he came in?


Mrs. REID. No; he did not.


Mr. BELIN. Do you know whether or not he went into the conference room?


Mrs. REID. Well, I wouldn't think he did because this door off here was locked and I had unlocked it for the policeman myself.


Mr. BELIN. All right, let's put an arrow here to the door that you say was locked, and we will put-do you want to put in the word "locked" in there, if you would, please?


Mrs. REID. All right.


Mr. DULLES. On which side was it locked or did you take the key away, was it locked so that you----


Mrs. REID. I would go in from this way. I wasn't going in from our office into the conference room.
Mr. DULLES. And you locked that door?


Mrs. REID. We did. They had asked me, I went in there with the policeman into the conference room.


Mr. DULLES. Did you take the key?


Mrs. REID. Yes, sir; I did, I got it for Mr. Williams.


Mr. DULLES. No; I mean after you locked the door do you leave the key in the lock?


Mrs. REID. No.


Mr. BELIN. What I want to know is this, Mrs. Reid. When you came back up into the building after the shooting and you walked into the conference room, at that time was the door which you have marked "locked," was it locked at that time when you came in?


Mrs. REID. Yes, sir; it was to---it was locked when I got to it, I will say that.


Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this. Had you been the one who had locked it before or don't you know?


Mrs. REID. Oh, no, I couldn't say that because too many people used the conference room.
I would have no way of knowing who locked it or if it is left unlocked. The porter locks it in the evening.


Mr. BELIN. All right. If one is locking that door with a key do you lock the door from the inside of the conference room?


Mrs. REID. Either way.


Mr. BELIN. Or the outside, either way?


Mrs. REID. Either way.


Mr. BELIN. Who has custody of the key?


Mrs. REID. I got that from Mr. Williams' desk, because that is where I got it from, and then the porter has one. I could not say. They all have the keys.


Mr. BELIN. When did you get it to unlock the door?


Mrs. REID. Well, by the time the policeman got there and started searching our floor. I can't recall whether I had taken him into the lounge first because they had me to go in there with him, the ladies' lounge, or whether they went in there because there is a little stand in here that Mr. Cason uses when we have a conference, and he jerked it back because it would have been humanly possible for a person to have gotten in there, but it was up against the wall and there was no one there.


Mr. BELIN. Would this have been more or less than 5 minutes after you got back in the building that you opened the lounge?


Mrs. REID. That is where you all get me in this time because I was not watching the clock that day.


Mr. BELIN. That is all right.


Mrs. REID. Time really didn't mean anything to us because they, the police officers, just came in on us and began to ask so many questions.


Mr. BELIN. When you were at point "RX" and moving, if someone would have walked into the conference room would you have heard him in any way?


Mrs. REID. I could have heard him open the door.


Mr. BELIN. You could hear them open the door. During the time, the period of time you were there and saw Lee Harvey Oswald, did you hear anyone open the door to the conference room?


Mrs. REID. I do not recall any.


Mr. BELIN. From your best judgment, if Lee Harvey Oswald didn't go into the conference room and didn't go back to the door marked around between 27 and 28, how would he have gotten out of the office?


Mrs. REID. Right straight out this door down this stairway and out the front door.


-------------------------
I cannot see any reason why she could not have spent the whole time in the conference room. Why she would do that though, I do not know. What I do know is that it smooths out some anomalies.


We also need to take into account the timings done during recreations.

She was timed at about 2 minutes from the last shot to her encounter with Oswald.

Baker was timed from the first shot to his encounter with Oswald at 1:30 walking and 1:15 moving fractionally faster.

Oswald was timed at 1:14 and 1:18.

Whichever way you look at this, the cosmic choreography involved to make the official story work is mind-bending - but not entirely impossible. And that is the bottom-line. It only needs to be possible to lose any semblance of being the exculpatory evidence some claim it to be.

Reid either gave Oswald change for a coke prior to the motorcade, or someone else did. Either way, she had seen enough of him (and other workers) to know they worked in t-shirts.

This is why she says "t-shirt". 

When the 2nd floor encounter was concocted, Mrs Reid's name was handwritten on the bottom of Truly's FBI statement, One could only suggest she was named as another second floor witness.  She was no such thing, but since she appears to have re-entered with Campbell, she may have been with him (the news story suggests multiple witnesses) when he saw Oswald in a small storeroom on the first floor upon re-entering. There was no officer with this group.

This could be why, like her boss Truly, she answers a question not asked, by offering that I do not recall seeing anyone in the lobby. I ran up to our office.


Which segues nicely into her testimony about getting the passenger lift down, but returning via the stairs. Since she was in her 50s, surely going back via the lift was a more sensible option?  Notwithstanding also that her first impulse outside was that the shots came from her building. 

As for the real encounter - that was between Oswald, Truly and Kaminski a bit later.

greg parker wrote:I cannot see any reason why she could not have spent the whole time in the conference room. Why she would do that though, I do not know. What I do know is that it smooths out some anomalies.

I got this idea from Lee Farley years ago. It's a hypothesis I'm waiting to be proved or disproved.
 
The East Elevator in the TSBD could not be summoned from another floor; one had to be in it personally with gates down to move it up or down.
 
What if some shady characters, after doing whatever they might have done up on the 6th floor (such as firing a rifle salute to scare off some pigeons), came down on the pre-staged East Elevator (EE) on the 6th floor to the 2nd floor?

 

 

Notice the space as you exit the EE. It is an isolable space. There's a door leading to the 2nd floor lunchroom, a door leading to a small room, and double doors leading to a conference room.
 
What if the escape plan for possible shady characters on the 6th floor included the captive EE down to a 2nd floor area that was sealed off? What if someone such as Geraldean Reid was given an assignment to make sure certain doors were locked at certain times? What if she was stationed in the 2nd floor lunchroom when the fur was flying to ensure things went according to plan, the plan (full details unknown to her) being to allow certain people to escape the porous building while it was still unguarded?
 
Just a crazy-ass theory I still can't let go of.

Stan Dane wrote:

greg parker wrote:I cannot see any reason why she could not have spent the whole time in the conference room. Why she would do that though, I do not know. What I do know is that it smooths out some anomalies.

I got this idea from Lee Farley years ago. It's a hypothesis I'm waiting to be proved or disproved.
 
The East Elevator in the TSBD could not be summoned from another floor; one had to be in it personally with gates down to move it up or down.
 
What if some shady characters, after doing whatever they might have done up on the 6th floor (such as firing a rifle salute to scare off some pigeons), came down on the pre-staged East Elevator (EE) on the 6th floor to the 2nd floor?

 

 

Notice the space as you exit the EE. It is an isolable space. There's a door leading to the 2nd floor lunchroom, a door leading to a small room, and double doors leading to a conference room.
 
What if the escape plan for possible shady characters on the 6th floor included the captive EE down to a 2nd floor area that was sealed off? What if someone such as Geraldean Reid was given an assignment to make sure certain doors were locked at certain times? What if she was stationed in the 2nd floor lunchroom when the fur was flying to ensure things went according to plan, the plan (full details unknown to her) being to allow certain people to escape the porous building while it was still unguarded?
 
Just a crazy-ass theory I still can't let go of.

Thank you, Stan. I was too lazy-ass to go looking for the floor plan. This is the sort of thing I had in the back of my mind --- if those exit points existed. They do, and I would suggest you go hang on to it and kudos to Lee for giving you the idea.

To reiterate, she was not seen on the second floor by Hine. Though expressing great excitement about the parade, she claims not to go down with the other girls, despite having no real reason not to. She claims to be with Truly and Campbell on the street - where a number of other women also place themselves - yet none of those women name her as being there.

She is next seen on the second floor by Hine who assumes she has just come back in with a bunch of others - only one of whom she claimed to be with - Campbell. I put it you that she came out of the conference room when she heard the others coming and was then assumed to have been with them.

Can anyone pick any holes in this scenario?

Are you implying that Reid was a part of the conspiracy?

Vinny wrote:Are you implying that Reid was a part of the conspiracy?

No Vinny. The evidence is.

None of her friends saw her outside and Hine never saw her on the 2nd floor. She had to be somewhere and the WC sure took an interest with her regarding that conference room with the lockable door from either side. 

She was already a definite part of the post-assassination frame of Lee by claiming she saw him on the second floor after the ambush with a coke. This shows she was also involved in the plot before the assassination.

Thanks Greg.

She ate alone

its best if upper or wanna be upper mngt doesnt mix with the employees.
like racism next was classism.
I can see her eating alone in conference room, its a privilege she probably enjoyed.
But we should find support for this.
Who else but her was a 'top dog' yet had no separate office, and a desk with the office employees where she is doubtful of eating at.
Maybe she had dentures and took them out to eat privately. Who knows, but we can sure find out
Cheers, Ed

Reid never saw him but in his T-shirt!
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

And Marrion Baker said he was wearing what exactly?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
Mr. BELIN - Handing you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 150, would this appear to be anything that you have ever seen before?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; I believe that is the shirt that he had on when he came. I wouldn't be sure of that. It seemed to me like that other shirt was a little bit darker than that whenever I saw him in the homicide office there.
Mr. BELIN - What about when you saw him in the School Book Depository Building, does this look familiar as anything he was wearing, if you know?
Mr. BAKER - I couldn't say whether that was--it seemed to me it was a light-colored brown but I couldn't say it was that or not.
Mr. DULLES - Lighter brown did you say, I am just asking what you said. I couldn't quite hear.
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; all I can remember it was in my recollection of it it was a light brown jacket.
Mr. BELIN - Are you referring to this Exhibit 150 as being similar to the jacket or similar to the shirt that you saw or, if not, similar to either one?
Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.
Mr. BELIN - Now, you did see him later at the police station, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Was he wearing anything that looked like Exhibit 150 at the police station?
Mr. BAKER - He did have a brown-type shirt on that was out.
Mr. BELIN - Did it appear to be similar to any clothing you had seen when you saw him at the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

Stealing this!

Thx B,
Ed

So what do we have here?


 
Momma Son catches a glimpse of Oswald in the second floor lunchroom, a mere 90 seconds following the shots. Oswald is wearing a brown-type shirt, just like he was later seen wearing when arrested.
 
About 30 seconds later, according to the venerable Warren Commission, Oswald is seen going through the office holding a Coca-Cola on his way out of the building. Geraldean says he's wearing a white T-shirt because she never saw him wear a regular shirt. That would ostensibly include the brown shirt Baker saw him in 30 seconds earlier.
 
This means Oswald had to have ditched his shirt in the 30 seconds following his encounter with Baker. And he did this with one hand because he was holding a Coke the other. (But then, anyone who could fire shots that killed the President with a rusty old carbine, stash it, and make it down four flights of stairs in 90 seconds without breaking a sweat has special abilities.)
 
He must have put his shirt back on as he made his way out the front door, but that's merely a guess.
 
I wonder what Lance thinks?

I have it on good authority that Groden told Phil Singer that he bullshitted the Reid story for his book.

Stan Dane wrote:

greg parker wrote:I cannot see any reason why she could not have spent the whole time in the conference room. Why she would do that though, I do not know. What I do know is that it smooths out some anomalies.

I got this idea from Lee Farley years ago. It's a hypothesis I'm waiting to be proved or disproved.
 
The East Elevator in the TSBD could not be summoned from another floor; one had to be in it personally with gates down to move it up or down.
 
What if some shady characters, after doing whatever they might have done up on the 6th floor (such as firing a rifle salute to scare off some pigeons), came down on the pre-staged East Elevator (EE) on the 6th floor to the 2nd floor?

 

 

Notice the space as you exit the EE. It is an isolable space. There's a door leading to the 2nd floor lunchroom, a door leading to a small room, and double doors leading to a conference room.
 
What if the escape plan for possible shady characters on the 6th floor included the captive EE down to a 2nd floor area that was sealed off? What if someone such as Geraldean Reid was given an assignment to make sure certain doors were locked at certain times? What if she was stationed in the 2nd floor lunchroom when the fur was flying to ensure things went according to plan, the plan (full details unknown to her) being to allow certain people to escape the porous building while it was still unguarded?
 
Just a crazy-ass theory I still can't let go of.

There is 0 access to and from the elevator on the 2nd floor.

Nor did Reid hang about the 2nd fl or eat her lunch in the conf. room. That by itself is a big no no, the last place to eat is the conf. room. In many companies it can get you in real trouble, trust me I have worked in about 100 of 'em.

Campbell named her as being outside with him. Anyone who is so sure she was not  outside with Truly and Campbell should point her out missing from the Wiegman film sequence where we can see Truly and Campbell.

barto wrote:Nor did Reid hang about the 2nd fl or eat her lunch in the conf. room. That by itself is a big no no, the last place to eat is the conf. room. In many companies it can get you in real trouble, trust me I have worked in about 100 of 'em.

We did it all the time in the S&P 500 company where I worked for 25 years.

The smell of food in a conf room is not on......imagine having a conf in the diary just after the lunch period.

Happens all the time. No big deal. The conference rooms at my company (where we occasionally had pot lucks on special occasions) were well ventilated. Maybe things are different in the EU.

barto wrote:I have it on good authority that Groden told Phil Singer that he bullshitted the Reid story for his book.

We already had that figured out.

Stan Dane wrote:Happens all the time. No big deal. The conference rooms at my company (where we occasionally had pot lucks on special occasions) were well ventilated. Maybe things are different in the EU.

I doubt the conference room was in any great demand anyway.  Maybe used for company meetings occasionally.  I don;t think we are talking having big conferences with lots of external people, and she brought her lunch... so most likely sandwiches which are not going to cause any problems with leaving the smell of food.

If it was a big company and the conference room was in hot demand and if it was a  more modern era where they had a microwave oven and she was bringing in leftover casserole or whatever, it may be a different story.

That Reid's testimony is nothing short of a joke, as much as Richard Sims' and Jim Leavelle's is a given.

Both of you have points (leftover casserole ha ha ha), when it comes to the conf. room but the whole scenario as originally stated cannot be proven.
What would be more beneficial is finding her in Wiegman and/or Darnell film(s).

Doyle did his one and only good deed this year and that is by getting Reid's pic, which if you compare it with her high school pic then it is her.

For some reason Doyle at the same time is very suspicious with this. He scored a Reid shot, but he does not show a pic of Sarah Stanton from that same time period........why not?

Because your stupid bs would be tumbling like a deck of cards.

Doyle could have easily asked Stanton's relatives to send him a 1963 photo of Sarah also. As for Groden he seems to be a huge con artist getting by on his past reputation.

greg parker wrote:

barto wrote:I have it on good authority that Groden told Phil Singer that he bullshitted the Reid story for his book.

We already had that figured out.

Yes but I wanted the specifics  and not just beliefs....

Vinny wrote:Doyle could have easily asked Stanton's relatives to send him a 1963 photo of Sarah also. As for Groden he seems to be a huge con artist getting by on his past reputation.

Yes Vinny, Doyle is playing a fishy game here. The one pic he showed of SS is years later. I mean that pic by itself nullifies her ever being Prayer Man but I bet a more recent shot (meaning 1963-ish) would make it even harder for Doyle to push this rubbish on any longer as she had longer hair than Oswald and that of course cannot be shared with the masses can it?

If you just look at the verbal excrement he spews in that thread that is now already 25 pages long you can see that he uses that thread as the next carpet this dog is rubbing arse on.