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Trip to New Orleans

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Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Thu 09 Oct 2014, 11:56 pm

I've been MIA for awhile. Two day jobs. 

I leave in a couple of days for NOLA. I had planned to spend time in the bowels of the Orleans Parish Assessor's office doing a title search for the piece of property previously described as 544 Camp Street. 

I wanted to photo copy the entire history of the Newman building - and before. I don't know if I have time now. It depends. But i go to NOLA most years. If I can't get it done this year - it will have to be 2015. 

PM me if there is anything anybody wants me to look up or photograph. I'll try to make time. But unfortunately, my schedule is very tight this trip.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 8:22 am

I did have a name that the FBI was interested in regarding a training camp... they had a property description and the name of the alleged owner...
but I can't quickly put my fingers on the name.

Thanks for the offer though. Very kind.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 9:46 am

Would that be in LaCombe? 

If so - different parish - St. Tammany Parish. But if you get the details, pm me. I'm very familiar with St. Tammany Parish. Lived there for a long time. 

That location wouldn't have an address per se, like 544 Camp Street. I'd need to find the pieces of land by a different property description. And it may have been state property or even Federal. But it's worth a look-up. LaCombe isn't very big. I'm familiar with the NOLA area and St. Tammany Parish. 

Barry Seal claims to be the only person to have located and visited the camp. 

Here is a map of the area today. Note: I don't think Interstate Highway 12 existed back then. So the land used was most likely between Highway 190 and 12. The unmarked north/south highway is state highway 334 I think. That area today is still mostly woods. But it is populated along 190. LaCombe is an small town along 190. 

If that camp was in the swamps, the green area is the St. Tammany Parish Wildlife Refuge today. I don't know if it was an official refuge back then. 


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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 11:16 am

M.Ellis wrote:Would that be in LaCombe? 

If so - different parish - St. Tammany Parish. But if you get the details, pm me. I'm very familiar with St. Tammany Parish. Lived there for a long time. 

That location wouldn't have an address per se, like 544 Camp Street. I'd need to find the pieces of land by a different property description. And it may have been state property or even Federal. But it's worth a look-up. LaCombe isn't very big. I'm familiar with the NOLA area and St. Tammany Parish. 

Barry Seal claims to be the only person to have located and visited the camp. 

Here is a map of the area today. Note: I don't think Interstate Highway 12 existed back then. So the land used was most likely between Highway 190 and 12. The unmarked north/south highway is state highway 334 I think. That area today is still mostly woods. But it is populated along 190. LaCombe is an small town along 190. 

If that camp was in the swamps, the green area is the St. Tammany Parish Wildlife Refuge today. I don't know if it was an official refuge back then. 

According to Interstate Guide:
 
"Interstate 12 was completed between U.S. 61 (Airline Highway) at Baton Rouge and Interstate 55 at Hammond in 1969. The western most two miles of Interstate 12 opened in conjunction with Interstate 10 east from College Drive in 1965. Interstate 10 southeast from I-12 would not be completed until 1974, resulting in traffic defaulting from I-10 east onto I-12 and U.S. 61 until 1969."
 
http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-012.html

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 12:55 pm

Thanks Stan. FWIW, I-12 runs from the Mississippi state line to Baton Rouge. It is a way
to bypass New Orleans if you are traveling east from Baton Rouge.

As I recall, (I was last there about 18 months ago), the area
north of I-12 at LaCombe is still mostly woods. I'd need to check again. But I'm also not sure if the area north of I-12 would be considered in Lacombe.

It's possible the camp was north of where you see I-12. But I don't know how would they all go there. Highway 190 could have taken them to either quadrant south of I-12. Then they would drive up 334.

I'd bet the camp was north of Lacombe and south of where I-12 is now. I could be wrong. I'd have to check out ownership at the St. Tammany Courthouse in Covington.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 8:05 pm

Found the name.

Looking for a property near or in Abita Springs owned by a family named Paupart and suitable for military style training.

No problem if this is outside what you can do.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 8:27 pm

greg parker wrote:Found the name.

Looking for a property near or in Abita Springs owned by a family named Paupart and suitable for military style training.

No problem if this is outside what you can do.

Got it. I'll see if I can get it done this trip. 

Now looking at that map, Abita Springs is north of I-12. So my guess may have been incorrect. But Barry Seal and other authors have referred to a camp in Lacombe. It's some distance from Lacombe to Abita Springs. 

Alas, Abita Springs is an area that has rapidly yuppified. That piece of land may well be a subdivision or a shopping center now.  Here is a map of St. Tammany Parish that shows both towns. They're not close. 


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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 9:55 pm

Here's something on-point, a memo from Assistant DA Alvin Osler to Jim Garrison. 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Training%20Camps/Item%2007.pdf

The Paupart property in question was in Lacombe, SOUTH of 190. This contains a legal description of the property too. 

"The property is described as Township 8 South, 
Range 13 East, Section 43..."


It fronts highway 434. I was wrong about it being north of 190. It's south - down in the swamps. 

A good hand-drawn map is here. 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YsnqeQLSrqA/UzhorY4VSiI/AAAAAAAAAcw/1m6HSW0jRoU/s1600/B+cane+and+Lacombe.jpg

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 10:35 pm

M.Ellis wrote:Here's something on-point, a memo from Assistant DA Alvin Osler to Jim Garrison. 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Training%20Camps/Item%2007.pdf

The Paupart property in question was in Lacombe, SOUTH of 190. This contains a legal description of the property too. 

"The property is described as Township 8 South, 
Range 13 East, Section 43..."


It fronts highway 434. I was wrong about it being north of 190. It's south - down in the swamps. 

A good hand-drawn map is here. 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YsnqeQLSrqA/UzhorY4VSiI/AAAAAAAAAcw/1m6HSW0jRoU/s1600/B+cane+and+Lacombe.jpg
Yes, they had owned a property at Lacomb. But the informant said the training ground was at a property they owned near Abita Springs - which as you point, is a long way from Lacomb, so it's hard to see how he could mistake one property for the other.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Fri 10 Oct 2014, 11:15 pm

OK. I might be able to find something without going there. I noticed St. Tammany Parish allows people to access records on-line for a fee.

So let's see if I can find anything. But it will take some time.

East of Abita Springs is still pretty rural. But west of Abita Springs has become a haven for yuppies and gentrification. For swamp training, south of Lacombe would be ideal.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Sat 11 Oct 2014, 7:30 am

I think the reason Oser failed to find the Abita Springs property is because once again, we are dealing with a misspelled name.

The correct spelling is Poupart
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=112081591

I also note that Oser failed to find any trace of the camp at Lacomb.

I'd be happy to reimburse any costs.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Sat 11 Oct 2014, 9:52 am

greg parker wrote:I think the reason Oser failed to find the Abita Springs property is because once again, we are dealing with a misspelled name.

The correct spelling is Poupart
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=112081591

I also note that Oser failed to find any trace of the camp at Lacomb.

I'd be happy to reimburse any costs.

It won't be necessary. $5 a day isn't onerous. That's what St. Tammany Parish charges for record access. I was wondering about 'Poupart' too. I found a few of them Googling around Abita. 

Abita Springs BTW is where Louisiana's most famous micro-brewery is located. 
Abita beer is excellent. It's a nice little town.

https://abita.com/brews

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Sat 11 Oct 2014, 10:27 am

Yeah, I found the brewery in my searches. No sense of direction, but I could find a brewery blindfolded. drunken

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Sat 11 Oct 2014, 10:57 am

greg parker wrote:Yeah, I found the brewery in my searches. No sense of direction, but I could find a brewery blindfolded. drunken
Aussies and Kiwis have their own inbuilt GPS. Global Pissup System. If we can't find one it will find us.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 2:42 am

Greetings from NOLA. It will probably be next week before I can check at St. Tammany Parish online though.

I'll let y'all know.

Nice to be back. Ate at Betsy's Pancake House this a.m. Eat at Arnaud's some night this week.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by James DiEugenio on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 1:59 pm

Arnaud's is great.

I would be very interested in a photo and documentary history of 544 Camp Street.

The Royal New Orleans collection is also a good place to do research.

As is the NOPL.  They have many document collections.  THat is where I first found a photo of Ochsner with Shaw.  

Ochsner was a key figure in destroying Garrison.  There was a secret committee of New Orleans upper class society which plotted with the CIA and Shaw's lawyers on this.  There is so much material in New Orleans it would take a team of ten people, many months to just scratch the surface.

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 3:51 pm

James DiEugenio wrote:Arnaud's is great.

I would be very interested in a photo and documentary history of 544 Camp Street.

The Royal New Orleans collection is also a good place to do research.


Where is that? The Royal Orleans Hotel or the library?



As is the NOPL.  They have many document collections.  THat is where I first found a photo of Ochsner with Shaw.  

Ochsner was a key figure in destroying Garrison.  There was a secret committee of New Orleans upper class society which plotted with the CIA and Shaw's lawyers on this.  There is so much material in New Orleans it would take a team of ten people, many months to just scratch the surface.

I'm afraid the 544 Camp Street research may wait may until my 2015 trip.
I can probably get St. Tammany done though. That sounds interesting.
Were there two training camps? Lacomb and somewhere else?
If so - we might be able to pinpoint the second one.

Clay Shaw's ITM is still there. Don't know if the revolving restaurant is still at the top.
I've spent about half my life in and around New Orleans. I come back once a year.
I have family here - including college students.

Your guidance would be really helpful Jim, telling me what you want looked up.
I'm thinking the history of the Newman building and of Newman himself.
Who were the tenants? Who came? Who left? What were the details of the sale to the US Government?

The old women's college at Tulane is called Newman. Likewise, Peyton Manning won a state football championship at the rich uptown school, Isidore Newman H.S. I'm wondering if the owner of the Newman building is related to Isidore Newman and other prominent Newmans in the city.

I'm not sure I can take photos on the walkway between the US 5th Circuit Court of Appeals and the Federal Court for Eastern Louisiana. The Feds bought that stretch of Lafayette Street and it's a walkway with a few concrete benches now. Lafayette and Camp is the rear side of both courts. Senators, Congressional reps, US attorneys all have their offices there.

The Feds own it now. Employees sit outside and eat their lunches there.



Last edited by M.Ellis on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by greg parker on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 4:26 pm

M.Ellis wrote:Greetings from NOLA. It will probably be next week before I can check at St. Tammany Parish online though.

I'll let y'all know.

Nice to be back. Ate at Betsy's Pancake House this a.m. Eat at Arnaud's some night this week.
Thanks Marc,

I believe if you can locate a property owned by Andre P at or around Abita Springs, you'll have found your second training camp.

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: Trip to New Orleans

Post by M.Ellis on Wed 15 Oct 2014, 11:51 pm

I plan to search land transactions for the two variations of the surname. So what I'm likely to get is a list.

I'll forward it to you via ROKC.
But it will be at least next week.

All the Best,

me.

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