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Mick Purdy
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 10:46 am
	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 0?ui=2&ik=9cefbd11c9&attid=0
Exhibit A. WCH. Gladys Johnson.

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Exhibi10
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.

Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that.
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts.

Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A.
[Exhibit so marked.]

Mr. BALL. Could we make a copy of this and return this to you, Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $30 is what I have received, all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do. I hated to be rude to people, I didn't know what to do but they got so----
Mr. BALL. We will make a picture of this and give it back to you.


Exhibit A should not be confused with the Nth. Beckley room register / log book.

IMO Johnson wanted Ball to believe this one piece of paper with the register details copied onto it was the paperwork which Oswald signed. The document Johnson handed to Ball IMO was nothing more than the details which had been copied onto a the blank piece of paper detailing the Tenant's stay at Beckley including dates and times of payments. 
Of course there could be an argument put forward that she could have torn the page from the register or had the original register page copied and handed that to Ball.
I don't believe that. 

She stated clearly to Ball that she did not bring the register with her to the proceedings:

Mrs. JOHNSON. You know, I'm sorry I didn't bring my register. I couldn't tell you exactly; I imagine I had about 10 or 12.
Mr. BALL. Was it full?
Mrs. JOHNSON. No; I don't--I most always have vacancies.


Exhibit A is IMO only the information which had been copied by Johnson from the official Nth. Beckley register, and copied no doubt months after the assassination on to the piece of paper she handed to Ball. Copied onto a blank piece of paper, relaying exactly what the WC wanted to hear. In my view it is not the page from the registry book which Oswald allegedly signed.
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 10:38 am
MEMORANDUM


Burt Griffin to J. Lee Rankin on March 12, 1964.





a. Obtain copies of registration records for rooming houses of Mrs. Bledsoe and Mrs. Johnson for the period September 26, 1963 to January 1, 1964 and identify all other rooming house records presently retained by Mrs. Bledsoe and Mrs. Johnson.

b. Details as to persons whom Oswald could have expected to be present at 1026 N. Beckley when he returned after the assassination on November 22nd.

c. Detailed statement of the activities of Bertha Cheek and Earlene Roberts on November 21, 22, 23, 24, and 25 to be provided by deposition or interrogation before the Commission.

d. Determination of police cars in the vicinity of 1026 N. Beckley Street at 1 PM on November 22, 1963, including car 207.

e. Detailed statements rfom Mr. Johnson, Mrs. Johnson and Mrs. Roberts concerning their activities and communications between the time Oswald returned to the North Beckley address and Mr. Johnson called the Dallas Police Department to inform the police that he had seen Oswald's picture on television.

f. Handwriting evaluation of piece of paper turned over to the Dallas police by Mrs. Roberts on which she claims Lee Oswald wrote the name O. H. Lee and which she used to maintain the account for O. H. Lee. Also, determination of whether or not it was a normal practice to keep accounts on a scrap of paper such as the one in question.
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 10:54 am
How O H Lee may have mistakenly been entered into the register book at Nth Beckley by Roberts.

From Fritz' report of Oswald's interrogation:

https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wr/pdf/WR_A11_ReportsDPD.pdf

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Fritz_11

And this allegedly from Oswald during his interrogation :

https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

My landlady didn't understand my name correctly, so it was her idea to call me 0. H. Lee. 
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 1:59 pm
This is a video of an interview conducted by KRLD-TV, which is now KDFW-TV (Channel 4), hours after the assassination in 1963. The woman being interviewed is Gladys Johnson, Oswald's landlady, who was also the grandmother of Patricia Puckett Hall, who still lives at 1026 N. Beckley Ave. in Oak Cliff. (KRLD-TV/KDFW-TV Collection/The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza):




https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018/11/21/dallas-is-weirdly-obsessed-with-the-houses-where-oswald-lived-but-gentrification-poses-a-threat/



Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 3:02 pm
All beauts Mick!

I do not believe the evidence shows Lee signed the slip of paper,
And why keep a slip of paper, when you have a guest register. She of course wanted to sell the slip of paper and the commission was not about to dismiss the piece of paper out of hand. I think she was told to prepare the slip or called the lawyers bluff, or just lied and knew they would not be apt or obliged to differ. 
Thus she kept the slip and only a copy was made.

A photo copy is not suitable for handwriting analysis. PERIOD.

No fingerprints were collected from the slip, or the register... So in reality there is NO PROOF Lee touched or signed that slip. This is not Lee's undoing but supports the absence of evidence for the Beckley residence. 

I do not believe Lee said "My landlady didn't understand my name correctly, so it was her idea to call me 0. H. Lee. "
I do not as he was expecting a baby soon. If he lived there he would be expecting a phone call,,,, if he gave the number. 
I do not believe he lived there as he did not know the number when asked by Clements(?)

I believe this goes back to Mae Brussels, and Bart would be able to tell us exactly who wrote this down in the second interrogation... or more interestingly who did not write or include this statement.
I believe only one person attending included this in any report, etc. 

Here is something I found searching for that exact statement. A statement is always followed by the next line Mae attributes to Lee.
This did not adhere to the script by Brussels.

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Last-words-of-oswald-2-638

The important part is different, and reads "While living on Beckley Street, I used the name O. H. Lee"

https://www.slideshare.net/uncle12/last-words-of-oswald

What do you think now?
Cheers, Ed


The cops moved Lee into that rooming house on the 22nd as it was on the route they were developing for a cop killer. 
Smile
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 3:36 pm
And Mae relied on The People's Almanac
:copyright: 1975 - 1981 by David Wallechinsky & Irving Wallace
Reproduced with permission from "The People's Almanac" series of books.
All rights reserved.

Mick here is your post on the last words, 
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1351-last-alleged-words-from-lee-harvey-oswald-while-held-in-custody
Which seems to be a combination of both "versions" ??
And it doesn't make sense. (to me at least when reading or speaking as Lee)

Cheers, Ed

 PS. I think the scripted version has Lee admitting all sorts of things
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 4:36 pm
Wheat from Chaff Ed. Exactly.

What to believe from any of them when it comes to the words which they would put into Lee Oswald's mouth after the fact.

What do I believe now? I don't believe there is an easy answer to that. Beckley is a tough nut to crack. I'm swinging! Either way on this.

Where is that tenant register? Why was it not photographed or entered into evidence? Pat Hall says her Grandmother Gladys was so distraught she destroyed it. Really! The only evidence we're expected to believe of Oswald having lived there is a slip of paper which was handed to Ball by Gladys Johnson and admitted into evidence. Evidence? Of what? 

We have two eyewitnesses in Watson and Lee. Arthur, Gladys and Earlene Roberts. Years later Patricia Hall Johnson's Grand daughter would recall having seen "Mr. Lee" and spoken with him nearly every day after school. 

There are issues with both sides of the argument for Lee Oswald having lived at the address or not.
Timelines help. Making sense of Beckley and Lee Oswald having resided there or not is almost impossible with the available info IMO.

I'm leaning toward him having resided there only because it marry's with so many of the reports, statements, affidavits and testimony. 
I've read all the fantastic material here, by Lee, Hasan, Greg, Bart yourself and others on Beckley, it's all very compelling and is extremely difficult to disregard.
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:07 am
Did Lee Oswald live at N Beckley Ave. Oak Cliff ?

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Ruth_a10


	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Ruth_a14


Ruth Paine's address book suggests he did.
The two telephone numbers we see in the book were confirmed to be for N. Marsalis and N. Beckley. Entries allegedly made by Ruth Paine at a time unknown.

If Oswald was living at these addresses then it's more than likely he gave these numbers to either Marina or Ruth as contact details. Marina was due to have their baby so that would make sense that either one of the two, Ruth or Marina had some way of contacting Lee outside of work hours.

Some claim the numbers have been added into the book after the fact.
Others claim the two phone number entries differ from the other numbers in the book.

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Ruth_a11	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Ruth_a12	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Ruth_a13

A few examples of other entries which look similar to the 2 in question.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=100&tab=page
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 2:59 pm
Yes added after.

Did AC confirm a call for Oswald

Person claimed to be Lee spoke spanish over phone? Russian is very unlikely to be confused for Spanish in Texas.
I believe all accounts are of Mr Lee, not our Lee, a Spanish speaking Herbert Leon Lee.

Please tell me, from interrogations, paperwork, reports, CE 382, etc. what room number or room letter was Lee living in exactly?
Should be easy for Lee to tell his interrogators as he "signed" a slip with room O on it .... right??
TIA,
Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 3:40 pm
Too many holes.
Too many stories.

Steve did a bang up job on the excuse Fritz gave,. Its still something that to this day has yet to be explained, How Did DPD first learn that Oswald lived at 1026 N. Beckley?
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/2331-how-did-the-police-first-learn-of-1026-n-beckley/

Fritz had no such info from Lee.
Why'd Fritz and company lie and say it was.
Why was everyone lying about this stuff Mick if it happened as 'official account' has it.

I have explained why Mrs. Johnson was less than truthful on her register, its "destruction" and the slip.
Why lie if Lee lived there and a dozen roomers roomed with him?
I found out why Mick.
Cheers, Ed
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 9:35 am
Ed,

Yes there are many holes, and too many stories with Beckley same same with everything. 

Steve did a bang up job on the excuse Fritz gave,. Its still something that to this day has yet to be explained, How Did DPD first learn that Oswald lived at 1026 N. Beckley?


Lost count how many times I've read this post, it's a beaut!


That's the key right? when did the cops learn of Beckley and from whom. What we do know as fact is they turned up at 1026 at 3.00pm. How'd that happen? If he wasn't living there Who decided 1026 was the game plan? There were no records because as with Bledsoe she admitted as much, she used a calendar as the register, cashy cashy wink wink.


She could not show the book IMO because there was no book. I think most of the stuff on Beckley written up in this forum and some of Steve's work is outstanding....don't get me wrong, I'm not turning I just want to try and fully understand how the cops were able to convince a lot of people to lie about Lee Oswald having lived there.
That's some mighty fine work by whoever wrote down those two phone numbers in Ruth's address book after the fact too. Even remembered to add N Marsalis/ Bledsoe number too and cross it out. 


Wheat from Chaff - it's hard with this one. Onward and sideways hey.
Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 10:27 am
Arthur Johnson WC testimony.

According to Arthur Johnson the Police arrived at N Beckley sometime after he'd arrived home from a mornings work at Johnson's cafe. He recalled the Police arrived sometime after 1.30pm.



Mr. BELIN. Well, let me backtrack a minute, now.
How soon after you got home did the police come--approximately?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'd say within 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. 30 minutes after you got home the Police came. And what did the police say to you?
Mr. JOHNSON. They asked if uh--we had anyone by that name living there.
Mr. BELIN. By the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And what did you tell them?
Mr. JOHNSON. We told them, "No."
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what did they say?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, they wanted to see the rooms. They had described his age, his build, and so forth, and we had two more boys rooming there. Uh-- and my wife was going to let them see the rooms.
Mr. BELIN. Your wife was going to let them see the rooms that you had--and you had a total of 17 roomers, I believe you said?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, no. I don't know just how many roomers we had. We have 17 bedrooms--but I don't know just, at that time, how many roomers we had.
But, anyway, we had a couple of boys around his age that had moved in just a few days before, and, so, she was going to let them see their rooms.



Seems possible that the Police may have searched rooms before the warrants had arrived.


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/johnso_a.htm
greg parker
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 11:58 am
The cops have Oswald specifically denying ever living on Neely -- but not denying living N. Beckley. That needs to be taken into account. If he denied it, why not admit he denied it like Neely? If he didn't deny it - if he actually volunteered it, then it explains how they got there so quickly.

I've got this timeline now.

Late Sept/early Oct - Herbert Lee rents room 0

Mid Oct - Herbert is offered bigger room and shifts out and Oswald moves in. Roberts gets confused when he gives his first name first and then his middle and last and marks his surname down as Lee; first initial H. 

Late Oct - James Watson moves into room 17 or 18.

Nov 1st - Watson moves out of the boarding house with Herbert Lee. Oswald is offered one of there rooms but declines. He is planning on moving out soon as well.

Fri Nov 15 - After work, Oswald and Ruth are checking out family size apartments and Ruth is making calls inquiring about washing machine rentals. On the way back to Irving, Ruth stops at the rooming house and Oswald rushes in and grabs a jacket and some other stuff. Roberts will recall this, but move it to Nov 22. He has unofficially moved out and moved to Irving so he can start organizing a move when a place becomes available. This is why all of his stuff is neatly packed up in the garage - he had spent all week sorting, bagging and boxing it.

Fri Nov 22 - Oswald is either dropped off at the front by Buell or arrives separately after getting a lift with Willy Randle. He had been given a ift that whole wee by Buell, but that morning, Givens notices Lee is not in Buell's car. 

Oswald arrested at TT and once at City Hall, gives an unknown cop his address N Beckley. 

Nov 22 3:00pm - Cops arrive at N Beckley. They report later that they went through the books without finding Oswald's name. He is then seen and recognized on TV by the owner and housekeeper who know him only as Mr Lee.

 In preparation fr her Warren Commission appearance, (maybe at the suggestion of the cops?) she copies Mr Lee's payment history from her books (sorry Mick. The cops said they went through those books. I don't think they had any reason to lie about that) and then destroys them to cover up that she had consecutive Mr H Lee's living in room 0. She further notes at the bottom that she last saw Mr Lee on Wednesday, Nov 13 and Mrs Roberts last saw him on Friday, Nov 15. Once before the commission, she realize she can't have that correct information in the records, so requests to have it rubbed out.

This doubt about our past finding that he never stayed there at all, started when I realized I had been misinterpreting the FBI report on Herbert Lee, insofar as I no longer think he was indicating that he and Watson shared a room at the boarding house. Disposing of that misinterpretation meant that Watson's different account now made sense.

Am I completely satisfied with the new scenario? Not really. But I do now see this as at least as likely as him not staying there at all.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
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Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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             Lachie Hulme            
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"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
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Jake Sykes
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 2:30 pm
Personally way more comfortable with the notion of his living there than never having done so. I never had a good argument against the former so never said anything about my doubts. As already mentioned by Mick, it added up to too many liars. 

Now that you have formulated this timeline, I'm happy to jump on board with it. That she would have disappeared the book makes sense since it might have amounted to documented under reporting of rental income from a tax standpoint. The new apartment angle works extremely well also. Brilliant work Greg.

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Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 2:37 pm
Oswald's PO Box 6225 application 1/11/1963

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337065/

	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Beckle12

Note: 3610 N Beckley address.

Holmes WC testimony:


http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm



Mr. BELIN. Then business address, there is a dash running through there, and home address is "3610 North Beckley," is that correct?
Mr. HOLMES. That's correct. That is the address he gave as the residential address when he rented the box.

292


Mr. BELIN. Then there is a signature "Lee H. Oswald," with the date of November 1, 1963?
Mr. HOLMES. This clerk told me that the man definitely filled this thing out himself.
Mr. BELIN. Does the clerk remember seeing it?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. There is a stamp, which I assume is your post office stamp, that says on there, "Date box opened, November 1, 1963," and the box number is written in as "6225".
Mr. HOLMES. That's right.



Mr. HOLMES. 
Of course I was in contact with the chief inspector in Washington, who was listening to the radio reports, and I remember once he called and he said, "Well, now, could the shots have come from the terminal annex building. Has your office been shaken out, the annex." Of course we gave that attention but there was nothing of any nature there of any importance. I was doing all I could to help other agencies.
One of the box clerks downstairs came up after an hour or so when the radio reports came in about the apprehension of Lee Oswald following the shooting of Officer Tippit, and said, "I think you ought to know, Mr. Holmes, that we rented a box downstairs to a Lee Oswald recently, and it is box number so-and-so".
That was my first tip that he had a box downstairs in the terminal annex. That box is No. 6225.




And this from Gary Taylor's WC testimony:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/taylor1.htm

Mr. TAYLOR. I don't know why I was trying to locate him. I don't remember anything except I remember driving around one area one evening looking for a residence of his on some vague directions. As I say, I don't even remember if it was a residence of the whole family or just of Lee. I went back to this area within the last few weeks and located a building that stuck--or I had a recollection of one building in this area and I went back to the area and found it and gave that information to Agent Yelchek of the FBI. I don't know what he----
Mr. JENNER. What location was that?
Mr. TAYLOR. I gave him the exact street address---but it seems to me like it was---well, the name of the apartment building was the Coz-I-Eight [spelling] C-o-z---I---E-i-g-h-t--apartments, and I thing they were located at 1404 North Beckley. But the address I could be off on; but the name I do remember.
Mr. JENNER. What kind of a building was this?
Mr. TAYLOR. An apartment building.
Mr. JENNER. Brick?
Mr. TAYLOR. Yes.



And this from the Mary Ferrell website:


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=40390#relPageId=78&tab=page


	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Beckle13
greg parker
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 4:20 pm
Jake Sykes wrote:Personally way more comfortable with the notion of his living there than never having done so. I never had a good argument against the former so never said anything about my doubts. As already mentioned by Mick, it added up to too many liars. 

Now that you have formulated this timeline, I'm happy to jump on board with it. That she would have disappeared the book makes sense since it might have amounted to documented under reporting of rental income from a tax standpoint. The new apartment angle works extremely well also. Brilliant work Greg.
Playing Devil's Advocate, the too many liars argument could be balanced by the too many non witnesses. 

And one "witness" whose recollections seem like a total rip off is Pat Hall, the grand-daughter.

In 2013, she was telling the media that Oswald played ball wit her brothers on the lawn and that one day day the brothers got into a fight and he sat them down n the stairs and gave them a talk about violence not being the answer.

My trouble with that is that it is the exact same story Ruth told her father - except of course, it was two neighborhood kids on HER front lawn. Could both stories be true? yes, but I just can't buy that they are.

Her other descriptions of Oswald and his personality also just do not gel with the picture painted by the few others that remember him there... surly, taciturn.

Convincing stories can be made either way. The apartment/washing machine scenario is in another thread. It was George DeM's theory (at some point) that Oswald shot Kennedy because he came home on the Thursday to patch things up and reunite the family elsewhere, Her condition had been a washing machine, but she allegedly rejected it that Thursday night. So long JFK. But we have witnesses to Lee and Ruth looking at an Oak Cliff apartment the PREVIOUS Friday and Ruth making calls about washing machines that same day. It is not the only instance of the authorities switching things around on the timeline. Inside the TSBD is the classic example. 

And if he had been staying there all week, they either have to admit that (but they can't because they need hi picking up the pistol in Oak Cliff), or they have to make an excuse for him arriving there a "day early" on the Thursday instead of Friday because they need him their Friday morning picking up the rifle.

Oswald should have hired some doppelgangers so he could cover all the contingencies. Inconsiderate prick.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
"
For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
 



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Mick Purdy
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	Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?  - Page 5 Empty Re: Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 5:03 pm
The timeline is important in the Beckley conundrum IMO.

Detectives were sent as a matter of fact to 1026 Beckley Avenue Oak Cliff at approximately 2.40pm 22nd Nov by Fritz. Fritz a short time prior to this had sent Detectives to the Paine's house out in Irving at approximately 2.30pm. It's remotely possible that detectives were at the 1026 Beckley Ave address before they reached the Irving location.

Either way something or someone triggered Fritz to send his men out to Oak Cliff. Send them to an exact location. 1026 N. Beckley Avenue. 

Fritz when making his way from the TSBD to his 3rd floor office to talk with his suspect Oswald, he had with him Oswald's Irving address details given to him by Truly.
Decker had sent word for Fritz to see him in his office as he was about to head to the 3rd floor of the DPD.
We may never know what that meeting was about. But we do know from the timeline that Fritz most likely got to Oswald at about 2.20pm. Remember he sent detectives almost immediately out to Irving. That's because we know he had the Irving details with him when he got back to his office. In the space of approximately 20 minutes he has dispatched more Detectives to a second address in Oak Cliff.

Fritz most likely did not have the Oak Cliff address when he first got back to his office and started talking to the suspect, otherwise he most likely would have sent officers to that location at the same time he sent the detectives to Irving. Fritz from whomever it may have been, learned of the Beckley address between the time of 2.20pm and 2.40pm and it is more than likely it was closer to the time of 2.40pm.


Last edited by Mick Purdy on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
greg parker
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on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 5:57 pm
All I can add for the time being; with all due respect to others, I do not believe that the address came from Jones or anyone else in army intelligence. There is just zilch zero zip evidence for that. It is just speculation based on suspicion rather than evidence. 

But what can be speculated is that Fritz knew more than he let on prior to sending anyone anywhere. I refuse to accept it was sheer coincidence that he sent a Russian speaker to Irving. That Adamcik did no interpreting when he was there is even more suspicious because it appears his orders were NOT to let on he spoke Russian and to perhaps eavesdrop on what was being said between Marina and Ruth.

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on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 6:14 pm
I really like things explained as timelines. It helps tie all the relevant pieces together. Helps one see the big picture and the overall context.
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Yesterday at 12:24 pm
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Yesterday at 12:57 pm
In 2018 Pat was trying to off load the house for over $500,000.00 USD. She has been trying to sell the property since sometime around mid 2013. It's sad reading her changing stories over that time. I think the longer she has waited for the property to sell the stories have become a little taller with each passing day.

Last account was she was on bended knee to the 6FM to take over the charade - oops tours
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Yesterday at 4:03 pm
This side by side comparison of Herbert Lee circa 1958? Also Lee Oswald on film while in custody at the DPD. This is more likely the perception of Johnson and Roberts observations when they announced that Oswald, the man on TV was the man they'd had staying in room 0.


It is possible they mistook Oswald for Lee.

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Today at 12:44 am
I missed seeing this earlier in the thread posted by Barto, but it seems to me, it resolves a lot of the problems.


barto wrote:e. Detailed statements from Mr. Johnson, Mrs. Johnson and Mrs. Roberts concerning their activities and communications between the time Oswald returned to the North Beckley address and Mr. Johnson called the Dallas Police Department to inform the police that he had seen Oswald's picture on television.

Mr Johnson phoned Dallas police to tell them that he'd seen Oswald on TV?

Could this have happened after the police left that evening? Sure. But why would he do that? NO reason I can think of.

Could this have happened while the police were there. Sure. But makes even less sense than the above. In fact, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Really, there is only one option as to when this happened. Between Oswald's arrest and about 15 to 20 minutes before the police arrived. Because it has to be WHY the police arrived. 

This works whether LHO was living there up yo that Friday inclusive, or if he had unofficially moved out the previous Friday, or whether he never lived there at all and Mr Johnson was mistaking LHO with Leon Lee. 

Recall that Fritz claimed he was advised by another officer about this address? Could it be that this officer took the call, or the message left about the call? 

The only issue with this is why such a call from Johnson became suppressed. I assume it was. I assume Griffin did not pull this out of thin air. 

But here is what Johnson testified to:

Mr. JOHNSON. "Well, uh--after he was--uh--apprehended out there, they searched him and found my address in his pocket

Which we know is utter nonsense.

Then there is this:

Mr. BELIN. How long had you been at the house when the officers arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, probably 30 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of the day they arrived?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it must have been around 1:30 or 2 o'clock--the best I remember.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get home that day from your work?
Mr. JOHNSON. Well, it was around 1 o'clock or maybe a little bit after.
Mr. BELIN. At the time you had gotten home, had you heard that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. I heard that before I went home.
Mr. BELIN. Did you hear that the President had died before you went home?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. So you got home sometime after you had heard that the President had died?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Where were you when you heard that the President had died?
Mr. JOHNSON. 1029 Young Street.
Mr. BELIN. And is that a business?
Mr. JOHNSON. We have a little restaurant there.
Mr. BELIN. You and your wife have a restaurant there?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Was your wife there, too?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; we work together.
Mr. BELIN. And did you hear this on the radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. No. Uh--we have a friend that is a policeman, works for Cotton Belt Railroad. And he called us--called up here and told us. Of course, we had heard all the sirens and everything, you know, going, and we couldn't imagine what it was. And Nicholson called us and told us that he had heard it over the radio.
Mr. BELIN. He had heard over the radio that the President had been shot?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And then, did you turn on your radio?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. We don't have one there in the place, so we went out in the car and sat there in the car and listened.
Mr. BELIN. All right. And was it while you were sitting in the car that you heard that the President had died?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes; we didn't leave until we--it was announced that he was dead.
Mr. BELIN. How soon after that announcement did you leave?
Mr. JOHNSON. I'd say 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Then, how long did it take you to get to 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. JOHNSON. It takes us about 5 minutes.
Mr. BELIN. So that about 10 minutes after you heard on the radio that the President had been shot, you arrived with your wife at 1026 North Beckley?

Mr. JOHNSON. That's right.

Kilduff announced to the media that Kennedy was dead at 1:33 pm so Johnson got home at about 1:43.

Oswald was arrested at between 1:40 and 1:50 pm - presumably the film of the arrest was shown soon after (though I do not have the info on that to hand)

Johnson claimed the police arrived about a half hour after he got home. That puts them there at about 2:13 pm. 

But I would suggest that may in fact be around the time he phoned them to advise Oswald was living there (after seeing him on TV).

By  the time Fritz arrives, sends a team to Irving and is informed about N Beckley, it is around 2:40 and the team he sends there arrives around 3:00 pm. 

Am I missing anything?  Am I over-reaching with the memo by Griffin?

If no, can we come up with a logical reason for deep-sixing of Johnson's call? 

Does this favor any particular scenario laid out in this thread?

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             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Today at 2:23 am
Just throwing this out.

If Johnson had seen a report on TV shortly after getting home and knew the arrest was nearby and the name Lee was said as well as the picture of Oswald shown (and the arrest photos were not his best likeness) he could have, perhaps, thought it was H. Lee who had until recent been staying there.

Mistaken identity?

Or was the Beckley house - as someone suggested some time ago - being used by the police as a sort of halfway house and Johnson knew to keep the police in the loop if he thought any of his boarders had stepped out of line.

This isn't egtting any less confusing, is it?

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Today at 2:53 am
Great work on this.  At the risk of stating the obvious (or I'm missing something) an explanation would appear to be a case of the collision between the DPD's actual arrival (about 2:13) and the explanation for their being there. They would be hiding their source for knowing the address and Johnson is cooperating by throwing out disinfo like a note in Oswald's pocket, but slips up with the statement about a call (as usual, these things get a bit messy). As you said, his call would have had to coincide with their arrival or presence there, so they had to hide it. The address info probably came from the FBI (and/or others) because they already had a shitload of info on Oswald including Beckley and that can never be known to the public for obvious reasons.

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