Choose Search Type
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» What strange affidavits these are!
Today at 7:38 pm by Ed. Ledoux

» Kennedys and King website
Today at 6:05 pm by Paul Francisco Paso

» The Facts about Connally's Wounds
Today at 5:53 pm by Paul Francisco Paso

» Kent Courtney
Yesterday at 11:47 pm by Hasan Yusuf

» a ramble in and around Pine St, NO
Yesterday at 11:45 pm by Hasan Yusuf

» Anatomy Of A Second Floor Encounter
Yesterday at 11:01 pm by barto

» ROKC Lampoon
Yesterday at 7:56 pm by steely dan

» Backyard photo´s rifle
Yesterday at 11:04 am by Ed. Ledoux

» No Shots Fired From The TSBD
Yesterday at 4:48 am by Stan Dane

Log in

I forgot my password

Social bookmarking

Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Furl  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

RSS feeds


Yahoo! 
MSN 
AOL 
Netvibes 
Bloglines 


Affiliates
free forum
 



connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Sun 01 Jan 2012, 12:01 am

One of the people interviewed in relation to the Odio incident was Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1141&relPageId=400

As can be seen, Pino Pino was working at the El Chico Restaurant Warehouse at the time of the interview (9/8/64) and advised he was a member of Alpha 66 - which possibly puts him in the middle of some very interesting meetings and a house on Harlendale.

This document shows that he was under investigation in Jun 1963 for being g2 (Cuban Intelligence). It also shows he was employed then also by the El Chico Restaurant. It should be fairly safe then, that he had the same employer in late Nov '63.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125453&relPageId=4

Further background
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125456&relPageId=2

In May, 1964, Pino Pino is listed as an officer in Alpha 66
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=125576&relPageId=6

Here is the incidence regarding the El Chico Restaurant involving an "Oswald" sighting on the afternoon of the assassination:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=699114

But there are numerous documents and articles which should be read on this incident to get the full picture.




_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Guest on Mon 06 Feb 2012, 10:13 pm

Shame we don't have a photograph of him, Greg. The tentacles sure do spread across the Oak Cliff area don't they?

I really don't believe that White made an error on this. According to the reports, checks were made on variations of the license number that White wrote down and they came up with nothing.

There is very little evidence within the reports that the Mather and Tippit families were friends. Living near someone does not automatically make you their friend and there is something decidedly dodgy about this whole situation IMO.

Within a few square blocks of the Theater we have Johnny Brewer "socialising" with his IBM friends. We have Bill Lowery, Communist infiltrator and FBI plant working in his shoe store. We have cars that link us to Collins radio. And we have Alpha 66 members working in restaurants that have possible links to Sylvia Odio.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Wed 15 Feb 2012, 10:34 pm

There is very little evidence within the reports that the Mather and Tippit families were friends.

I'm sure there was testimony to the effect that Tippit had few friends on the force.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Sat 11 Oct 2014, 4:25 pm

since Larry Hancock has recently suggested this topic needs further investigation, I'd thought I'd give it a bump.
http://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/loose-ends-in-dallas-and-the-house-on-harlandale/

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Colin Crow on Mon 13 Oct 2014, 1:17 am

So Oswaldo lived a 5 minute walk from the 700 block of North Beckley. Close to either Neely St and 1026 North Beckley. Interesting.

Colin Crow

Posts : 214
Join date : 2013-08-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Mon 13 Oct 2014, 9:56 am

Colin Crow wrote:So Oswaldo lived a 5 minute walk from the 700 block of North Beckley. Close to either Neely St and 1026 North Beckley. Interesting.
Colin, 

I'm tired and caffeined  to the max so it's wild-ass theory time. I base it on the following points which are themselves a mix of fact and conjecture

1. Oswald never stayed at N Beckley. (conjecture)

2. Herbert "Leon" Lee did stay there. (fact)

3. "Leon" had arrived from Shreveport. (fact)

4. Odio said her visitors arrived from New Orleans. (fact)

5. Odio testified that the American was only ever referred to as "Leon". No surname was used. (fact)

6. One of the Cubans who visited Odio was Osvaldo Aurelio Pino Pino. (conjecture) 

7. Pino Pino had been investigated as a possible Castro double-agent. (fact)

8. Pino Pino lived near the boarding house where "Leon" was staying (fact)

9. Odio told Mrs Connell on Nov 28 that "Oswald" had given talks at a number of Cuban meetings and that she had been warned by friends in New Orleans to be wary of "Oswald" as they considered him a Castro double-agent. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:XsR_bn6pHQ8J:jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%2520Subject%2520Index%2520Files/O%2520Disk/Odio%2520Sylvia/Item%252035.pdf+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au (fact)

10. Herbert "Leon" Lee was a navy veteran. (fact)

11. Odio said that the Cubans told her "Leon" was a former Marine. (fact)

12. Herbert "Leon" Lee - according to his obit - became a police officer in Jefferson, Texas after 30 years as a floor layer. (fact) 

------------------------


I think the names "Leon" and "Osvaldo" became stuck together in her mind post-assassination when she saw that a "Lee Oswald" was the alleged assassin. (conjecture)

Herbert "Leon" Lee becoming a cop in his 50's after 30 years as a floor layer just doesn't ring true. Was he ONI/undercover cop all along? (conjecture)

Why was his alleged room-mate James Watson not found and interviewed - especially since "Leon" claimed not to have even known Oswald stayed at N Beckley, but that he thought Watson had indeed talked to Oswald? 

A few more coffees however and I may revise this beyond recognition Exclamation

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Colin Crow on Mon 13 Oct 2014, 7:18 pm

Interesting that Herbert Lee was a floor layer. I wonder if he might have been part of the 5-8 man crew that was brought in to the TSBD as part of the floor laying exercise?

Colin Crow

Posts : 214
Join date : 2013-08-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Mon 13 Oct 2014, 9:35 pm

Colin, where does the 5 to 8 figure come from?

I have to confess, this was one of the aspects I didn't find convincing.


Norman stated in his WC testimony that he spent most of his time up there "shooting the breeze". He could not recall for the HSCA if this guy was still there on Nov 22. 

I believe the guy in question was the guy hired around the same time as LHO but laid off per Truly's testimony on Nov 15 - and this is the reason no one named him as part of the crew.

Norman also told the HSCA that most of the experienced guys were still working downstairs (or over at the other warehouse?) so it makes sense that a new temp would be working on the floor laying (tho it begs the question as to why Lee wasn't!)

I know Norman asked if this guy had a crew with him and Norman answers "yes" but I think there is plenty of room there for a misinterpretation on Norman's part. The TSBD workers doing the floor have always been referred to as "the floor-laying crew" and if this guy was a temp employee, they would be "his crew". Unfortunately the issue was not explored further, but I can't accept your interpretation of the evidence as it is. I would have wanted to see Norman say flat out that the TSBD hired an external crew... not just answer "yes" to a question he could easily have misunderstood.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Colin Crow on Mon 13 Oct 2014, 11:25 pm

From another poster on Duncan's site.....

"An independent interview conducted by the authors of the Men on the Sixth Floor with TSBD employee Harold Norman discloses this information:

Norman: "Well, they were working...they were putting down some flooring, some plywood, they were painting, there was quite a bit of noise" -Page 76
Norman: "Yeah they had one of those table saws...to fix the hardwood flooring...it was by the windows onthe east end of the 6th floor" -Page 78
Norman: "There was an outside contractor. A crew of about 5-8 men doing the construction" -Page 78"


I found it interesting the guy was a floor layer by trade. Maybe Norman is BS. Maybe Semple is lying. Maybe it's just coincidence. They do seem to pop up though. 

A bit like Brewer and Lowery both shoesalesmen on Jefferson. Oswald buying new shoes, visiting Brewer's store and later his references about "Junie needs new shoes". 

I make no theory on this one, just another mysterious piece or not?

Colin Crow

Posts : 214
Join date : 2013-08-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Tue 14 Oct 2014, 7:12 am

Colin Crow wrote:From another poster on Duncan's site.....

"An independent interview conducted by the authors of the Men on the Sixth Floor with TSBD employee Harold Norman discloses this information:

Norman: "Well, they were working...they were putting down some flooring, some plywood, they were painting, there was quite a bit of noise" -Page 76
Norman: "Yeah they had one of those table saws...to fix the hardwood flooring...it was by the windows onthe east end of the 6th floor" -Page 78
Norman: "There was an outside contractor. A crew of about 5-8 men doing the construction" -Page 78"


I found it interesting the guy was a floor layer by trade. Maybe Norman is BS. Maybe Semple is lying. Maybe it's just coincidence. They do seem to pop up though. 

A bit like Brewer and Lowery both shoesalesmen on Jefferson. Oswald buying new shoes, visiting Brewer's store and later his references about "Junie needs new shoes". 

I make no theory on this one, just another mysterious piece or not?
Fixing hardwood flooring? Painting?

Okay. that nails it. Norman is confused. He is recalling the crew that did come in to do renovations earlier in the year. 

All that was happening Oct/Nov was the plywood being placed over the existing flooring. There was no need for contractors to do this. Monkeys could have done it under supervision.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Tue 14 Oct 2014, 7:30 am

We are looking at Norman recalling something from late July or early August.

They talked about Sonny Liston.

Liston fought Floyd Paterson on July 22, 1963.

The last fight he had prior to that was Sept 25, 1962 - again against Paterson.

The next fight after July 22, 1963 did not occur until February 25, 1964. That was against Ali.

This fits with Truly telling the FBI that the TSBD had only occupied the building "for a few months".
 https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1005378

Though not stated in that brief report, other reports show that they had quite a bit done to the place at the time of moving in - using external contractors.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Colin Crow on Tue 14 Oct 2014, 8:10 pm

Then again the Liston/Clay fight was signed on Nov 5. Hard to see he could misinterpret “that day" but who knows. It does seem he was called in on occasion for repairs. 

Who were "most of the old hands" that worked at the other warehouse. From memory, Givens had been transferred from there to the TSBD. Williams was a new employee who had been transferred also. 

Shields, worked in the warehouse IIRC.

Colin Crow

Posts : 214
Join date : 2013-08-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Tue 14 Oct 2014, 8:45 pm

Colin Crow wrote:Then again the Liston/Clay fight was signed on Nov 5. Hard to see he could misinterpret “that day" but who knows. It does seem he was called in on occasion for repairs. 

Who were "most of the old hands" that worked at the other warehouse. From memory, Givens had been transferred from there to the TSBD. Williams was a new employee who had been transferred also. 

Shields, worked in the warehouse IIRC.
Colin,

Norman is quoted as saying "...most of the time he and I would mostly be talking about the fight..." Yes, he could be talking about an upcoming fight between Liston and Ali. What militates against that is firstly, it reads more like an event that has already taken place. Secondly, Ali (or Clay as he still was) was little known then and a 7 to 1 rank outsider. This fight did not garner a great deal of interest. The bout with Patterson was a rematch after Liston had taken Paterson's title with a 1st round knockout - with that first fight being one of the most ballyhooed in heavyweight history. Thirdly, the timing fits neatly with the time Truly let slip that they had moved into the building - while painting as one of the jobs being done, also fits.

You may be right. They may well have had a carpenter who came in occasionally for minor repair work. That would not be unusual. If they did have such a handyman they called upon as needed, I do find it difficult to see how he comes under suspicion. Was he a chippy and part-time assassin-for-hire?

The real significance is that this information which you've teased out (to my mind anyway) supports the TSBD moving in as that document states - a few months prior to the assassination. They was a small doubt in my mind about it because there are claims that the company moved in late the previous year or at the start of the year. We now have them moving in at the same time plans are being made to lure JFK to Dallas...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Sat 24 Sep 2016, 11:40 pm

bump

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by greg parker on Mon 26 Sep 2016, 12:08 pm

From Larry Hancock's website:


Larry Hancock wrote:Jose Salazar had rented the House on Harlandale, served as vice president of the Dallas Alpha 66 chapter and was a friend of Oswaldo Aurelio Pino – Pino was one of those specifically questioned by the FBI about knowing and possibly visiting Sylvia Odio.  The FBI was particularly interested in Pino as he had been an important figure in Cuba (Chief of the Fuels and Lubrication Department at the Institute of Agrarian reform) following the revolution. He was suspected of involvement with Cuban G-2 inside Cuba and being an informant on anti-Castroites and anti-Communists.  After arriving in the US, the FBI investigated him as a possible Cuban intel agent. He was investigated by Dallas FBI agent Walter Heitman from June 63 to March 64 – the investigation was delayed because Heitman was pulled for JFK assassination investigation work.  If Pino was not a Castro agent, clearly he had become a very dedicated anti-Castro activist.
(side note:   virtually none of Heitman’s pre- assassination reports and files are available; yet he played the main role in FBI subversive investigations focused on Cubans in Dallas.  This is one of the most important and least pursued areas of JFK research…in case anybody is interested).
Pino admitted joining a variety of exile groups in Dallas including Alpha 66 / SNFE / MRP) and being Vice Secretary; this was confirmed by a series of FBI informants.


As I said upstream, I think Herbert Leon Lee and Osvaldo Pino Pino were two of the three who visited Odio . Post assassination, she remembered the names "Leon" and Osvaldo" and put them together when she heard the name "Lee Oswald" in the media.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3440
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: connection between chico carpark and odio incidents?

Post by Sponsored content Today at 10:35 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum