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Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
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greg_parkerAdmin- Posts : 8368
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 66
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia 
Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Sat 23 Dec 2017, 8:46 pm
Roy Truly
· Born August 9, 1907.
· Began work for the Texas Book Depository in 1934 as head of the Miscellaneous Dept. – the same job Bill Shelley was filling in 1963
· Became superintendent in 1944 and at some stage was made a co-director of the company
· During WW II he held a second job at night at the North American Aviation Plant in Arlington by cutting down his hours at the depository
· Defense plants during the war were protected from subversives and saboteurs by a network of informants on the floor. Although I cannot prove it, I believe Truly had such a role. Bill Shelley also worked in a defense plants during the war before starting with the TSBD in October 1945. He did not name the defense plants, but North American Aviation in Arlington with Truly seems like a safe assumption as one. At some point later in life, he told a journalist he was with the CIA after the war. That’s seems unlikely, but this may have been a misunderstanding by the interviewer or an exaggeration by Shelley. I think it is more than possible he too was a security informant inside those defense plants.
· But who was Roy Truly? The answer came to me when I was reading about the alleged suicide of Fred Korth’s daughter and I noticed that she and Truly shared the same unusual middle name – Sansom. That to me, indicated they had both inherited the surname of a common ancestor.
· Based on this hunch, I got in touch with a correspondent who I knew to have exceptional ability with genealogy
· His report back was that I was wrong – Truly and Fred Korth were not related by blood – but by marriage. Truly was in fact a cousin to Fred’s wife. The inter-relationships traced below are based on this genealogical work
· The respective grandfathers were 2nd cousins and without any doubt, knew each other because they lived in the same district in the same county - and Truly's grandfather was a Church minister so it's likely all the Sansom's in the area attended his church. He was also a druggist...
· Truly's mother Josephine and Korth's mother-in-law, Nina were 14 years apart in age, but very likely knew each other - especially after 1897 when Marion Sansom moved his family back to Johnson County from Austin - before moving again this time to Forth Worth in 1902. Josephine married George Truly in 1900 and moved to the neighboring Hill County.
· After 1912, Korth's future bride lived at her Grandfather's ranch for many years so she was close to her grandfather, grandmother and mother, all of whom were very likely to have known Roy Truly's mother - and therefore, possibly Roy as well. They all lived close enough to each other that they could have remained close and been frequent visitors. Thus, it is at least possible that Vera and Roy were acquainted as well -- and therefore maybe Fred and Roy, too.
My own thoughts: I already had Korth pegged as being involved in selecting Oswald for his Russian trip, so stumbling onto this connection to Truly was pretty mind-boggling to me. It seems possible that Roy was close enough to reach out to - and distant enough that no one would suspect a connection.
So – distant cousins – yes – but raised in small Texas communities where everyone knew each other, and especially so for those who were related. I can personally relate because my childhood was exactly like that – small rural communities where you knew everyone and were related to most of them.
But again – that’s not all. Based on my interest in the Truly – Korth connection, my correspondent did some checking on Truly’s wife Mildred. What he found was her father’s 1962 obituary from the Dallas Morning News reproduced below. The story confirmed that William Chenault was a cousin to Claire Chenault and listed among William’s surviving children was Mildred Truly. Unless there were 2 Mildred Truly’s living In Dallas, this was Roy’s wife, and she was a second cousin to the General.
Roy Truly, as discussed earlier in this series, gave permission to Oswald to leave and cleared him with an officer stationed at the entrance, before then informing Captain Fritz that Oswald was “missing”. Truly was the “inside man”.
Fred Korth was related by marriage to Truly, and was under a cloud of suspicion over various activities and conflicts of interest. He was familiar with the Oswald family, and mixed in the same milieu as the Raggios and others. He was the instigator of assassination plans, or a facilitator of same.
· Born August 9, 1907.
· Began work for the Texas Book Depository in 1934 as head of the Miscellaneous Dept. – the same job Bill Shelley was filling in 1963
· Became superintendent in 1944 and at some stage was made a co-director of the company
· During WW II he held a second job at night at the North American Aviation Plant in Arlington by cutting down his hours at the depository
· Defense plants during the war were protected from subversives and saboteurs by a network of informants on the floor. Although I cannot prove it, I believe Truly had such a role. Bill Shelley also worked in a defense plants during the war before starting with the TSBD in October 1945. He did not name the defense plants, but North American Aviation in Arlington with Truly seems like a safe assumption as one. At some point later in life, he told a journalist he was with the CIA after the war. That’s seems unlikely, but this may have been a misunderstanding by the interviewer or an exaggeration by Shelley. I think it is more than possible he too was a security informant inside those defense plants.
· But who was Roy Truly? The answer came to me when I was reading about the alleged suicide of Fred Korth’s daughter and I noticed that she and Truly shared the same unusual middle name – Sansom. That to me, indicated they had both inherited the surname of a common ancestor.
· Based on this hunch, I got in touch with a correspondent who I knew to have exceptional ability with genealogy
· His report back was that I was wrong – Truly and Fred Korth were not related by blood – but by marriage. Truly was in fact a cousin to Fred’s wife. The inter-relationships traced below are based on this genealogical work
· The respective grandfathers were 2nd cousins and without any doubt, knew each other because they lived in the same district in the same county - and Truly's grandfather was a Church minister so it's likely all the Sansom's in the area attended his church. He was also a druggist...
· Truly's mother Josephine and Korth's mother-in-law, Nina were 14 years apart in age, but very likely knew each other - especially after 1897 when Marion Sansom moved his family back to Johnson County from Austin - before moving again this time to Forth Worth in 1902. Josephine married George Truly in 1900 and moved to the neighboring Hill County.
· After 1912, Korth's future bride lived at her Grandfather's ranch for many years so she was close to her grandfather, grandmother and mother, all of whom were very likely to have known Roy Truly's mother - and therefore, possibly Roy as well. They all lived close enough to each other that they could have remained close and been frequent visitors. Thus, it is at least possible that Vera and Roy were acquainted as well -- and therefore maybe Fred and Roy, too.
My own thoughts: I already had Korth pegged as being involved in selecting Oswald for his Russian trip, so stumbling onto this connection to Truly was pretty mind-boggling to me. It seems possible that Roy was close enough to reach out to - and distant enough that no one would suspect a connection.
So – distant cousins – yes – but raised in small Texas communities where everyone knew each other, and especially so for those who were related. I can personally relate because my childhood was exactly like that – small rural communities where you knew everyone and were related to most of them.
But again – that’s not all. Based on my interest in the Truly – Korth connection, my correspondent did some checking on Truly’s wife Mildred. What he found was her father’s 1962 obituary from the Dallas Morning News reproduced below. The story confirmed that William Chenault was a cousin to Claire Chenault and listed among William’s surviving children was Mildred Truly. Unless there were 2 Mildred Truly’s living In Dallas, this was Roy’s wife, and she was a second cousin to the General.
Roy Truly, as discussed earlier in this series, gave permission to Oswald to leave and cleared him with an officer stationed at the entrance, before then informing Captain Fritz that Oswald was “missing”. Truly was the “inside man”.
Fred Korth was related by marriage to Truly, and was under a cloud of suspicion over various activities and conflicts of interest. He was familiar with the Oswald family, and mixed in the same milieu as the Raggios and others. He was the instigator of assassination plans, or a facilitator of same.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Vinny- Posts : 3410
Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Sat 23 Dec 2017, 11:25 pm
Great research, Greg.
_________________
Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
Jake_Sykes- Posts : 1100
Join date : 2016-08-15
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Sun 24 Dec 2017, 2:02 am
I agree with Vinny. This combined with your Fred Korth post gives us Korth the axis around which essential key players/activities were spinning.
Truly's background was a conspicuous black hole in the TSBD milieu. Now you've blasted it with enough light that we're getting the picture at long last. This amazing confluence of the Korth/Oswald/Truly families is not some random degrees of separation kind of thing. It contains documented cross trails of profound interactions that occurred between them.
Obviously I think this is powerful stuff. Congratulations. It's always amazing what you bring to light just working on your own and engaging those whose help you need. Everyone interested in this case needs to read your research and understand its significance. Everyone, as in millions of people all around the world.
Truly's background was a conspicuous black hole in the TSBD milieu. Now you've blasted it with enough light that we're getting the picture at long last. This amazing confluence of the Korth/Oswald/Truly families is not some random degrees of separation kind of thing. It contains documented cross trails of profound interactions that occurred between them.
Obviously I think this is powerful stuff. Congratulations. It's always amazing what you bring to light just working on your own and engaging those whose help you need. Everyone interested in this case needs to read your research and understand its significance. Everyone, as in millions of people all around the world.
_________________
Release clear scans. Reveal the truth about Prayer Man. Preserve the history of the assassination of JFK.
StanDane- Posts : 3645
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 71
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Fri 01 Mar 2019, 2:52 am
BC_II- Posts : 164
Join date : 2017-06-02
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Fri 01 Mar 2019, 10:58 am
Unreal Greg....wow. So, this is my thinking....any scholar, from this point onward, ought to have this research included in ANY bits and pieces on Truly and Korth....period and with proper credit due but the question is...will they? I sure hope so. Amazing work as always.
- greg_parkerAdmin
- Posts : 8368
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 66
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Thu 14 May 2020, 1:36 pm
Over at the 13 Inch Head forum, they are making giant strides.
Jimbo Baggins has just discovered that Mildred Truly was related to Claire Chennault! http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26480-the-cia-and-the-book-depository/?do=findComment&comment=420408
But not so fast! The John Butler Trio has stepped and so NO! "No connection to the families that can be seen at this point. Stay tuned for more in depth research."
Baggins is disappointed at this:
But it doesn't matter. The John Butler Trio comes storming back for the knockout blow showing his chops at genealogy:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26480-the-cia-and-the-book-depository/?do=findComment&comment=420504
But alas, what he is knocking down is a strawman. The news article (which was purloined from here for the find-a-grave site) does NOT say that Mildred's father was a FIRST cousin, It just says "cousin". Admittedly "first cousin" was my default assumption - and that also seems to have been the ASSUMPTION of the author of the "find-a-grave site.
So what the JBT has done is knock down a wrong assumption - not the original evidence (the newspaper article.
That newspaper article was not the only one making the "cousin" claim.
There is also this one.
Seems that William, up to about 1950, had organized regular family reunions. I think those reunions would have made the social pages back then - and most certainly list the General. if he attended. Whatever the case, it seems it would have been local knowledge that William was related to Claire, no matter how distantly it may or may not have been. This story also has him working at Chance Vougt Aircraft during WWII... so that is three working in defense plants during the war - Roy Truly, his father-in-law and his friend, Bill Shelley.
FWIW, the museum housing old Chance Vougt planes is operated on a street named... CLAIRE CHENNAULT! In fact, these planes were among those flown by the Flying Tigers.
https://cavflight.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95&catid=13&Itemid=101
A bit more on William.
In August 1941, William Chenault was in Philadelphia for the Veterans of Foreign Wars National Encampment.
This event saw a fierce debate about entering into WWII or remaining isolationist. William was firmly in the latter camp.
The truth of the original news stories remains untarnished after the JBT assault. William WAS a cousin to Claire. The additional news story confirmation, the Chance Vougt connection, along with family reunions, all provide additional support not only of a familial relationship, but that they knew each other, probably quite well.
Claire did have other relatives in and around Dallas. If these two stories about a relationship to William had been false, the other relatives would kicked up a stink. No real relatives like to see others falsely horn in on their family fame and name.
Jimbo Baggins has just discovered that Mildred Truly was related to Claire Chennault! http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26480-the-cia-and-the-book-depository/?do=findComment&comment=420408
But not so fast! The John Butler Trio has stepped and so NO! "No connection to the families that can be seen at this point. Stay tuned for more in depth research."
Baggins is disappointed at this:
For some reason, this all sounds very familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on where I have seen it before.Yes, we're looking a family connection between Roy Truly's wife and the famous Claire Chennault, despite the difference in spelling.
Roy Truly is pivotal to this case. "He hired Oswald at the Book Depository and soon after the assassination told DPD Chief Lumpkin that Oswald was missing. I think Truly was a co-conspirator in this case."
But it doesn't matter. The John Butler Trio comes storming back for the knockout blow showing his chops at genealogy:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26480-the-cia-and-the-book-depository/?do=findComment&comment=420504
But alas, what he is knocking down is a strawman. The news article (which was purloined from here for the find-a-grave site) does NOT say that Mildred's father was a FIRST cousin, It just says "cousin". Admittedly "first cousin" was my default assumption - and that also seems to have been the ASSUMPTION of the author of the "find-a-grave site.
So what the JBT has done is knock down a wrong assumption - not the original evidence (the newspaper article.
That newspaper article was not the only one making the "cousin" claim.
There is also this one.
Seems that William, up to about 1950, had organized regular family reunions. I think those reunions would have made the social pages back then - and most certainly list the General. if he attended. Whatever the case, it seems it would have been local knowledge that William was related to Claire, no matter how distantly it may or may not have been. This story also has him working at Chance Vougt Aircraft during WWII... so that is three working in defense plants during the war - Roy Truly, his father-in-law and his friend, Bill Shelley.
FWIW, the museum housing old Chance Vougt planes is operated on a street named... CLAIRE CHENNAULT! In fact, these planes were among those flown by the Flying Tigers.
https://cavflight.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=95&catid=13&Itemid=101
A bit more on William.
In August 1941, William Chenault was in Philadelphia for the Veterans of Foreign Wars National Encampment.
This event saw a fierce debate about entering into WWII or remaining isolationist. William was firmly in the latter camp.
The truth of the original news stories remains untarnished after the JBT assault. William WAS a cousin to Claire. The additional news story confirmation, the Chance Vougt connection, along with family reunions, all provide additional support not only of a familial relationship, but that they knew each other, probably quite well.
Claire did have other relatives in and around Dallas. If these two stories about a relationship to William had been false, the other relatives would kicked up a stink. No real relatives like to see others falsely horn in on their family fame and name.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- alex_wilson
- Posts : 1333
Join date : 2019-04-10
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Thu 14 May 2020, 10:38 pm
Greg, i tip my tin foil hat t you sir. You don't happen t live at 221b Baker St? Smoke a long stemmed briar pipe? At one time went for a little dip in the Reichenbach Falls? You don't happen t have a pet koala either? Called Dr Watson?
Your talents are wasted on that fucking shower. Armstrong ain't no Professor Moriarty!! More like Professor Horatio Huffenpuff whose Fantabulous Contraption once infamous fish fetishist/ B Movie actor Troy McClure( you might remember him from I put Hitlers Brain in my pet mouse- the Judy Vary Story or Jim Marrs vs the 2 billion year old silicon based lifeforms from Venus or my own personal favourite Independent director Cecil B DeBaggins remake of " There's A Girl in my Soup".." There's A Doppelganger in my Fez. Sadly DeBaggins lost out t Ralph Cinque and My Stretch of Texas Hound in Pyongyangs illustrious Film Festival..Ralphie swept the board winning no less than 12 KIMMIES for his sympathetic portrayal of a Korean connoisseur of canine flesh stuck in gloomy Buda during the Coronavirus lockdown...i have t confess the tin foil hat wrenching last scene when Ralph offers his golden OIC badge and the whole of that year's bok choy harvest t save Big Ralphie his pet Chihuahua had me in tears) intended t immortalise on the silver screen.
The actual mechanics of the set up itself has always fascinated me. Ruth Paine was obviously involved at some level. Maybe pre assassination she merely thought she was doing her " patriotic duty" by babysitting the family of an ex defector/ low level intel pawn. Post assassination i think shed have been an enthusiastic participant. Despite her saccharine public protestations t the contrary my guess is she despised JFK both as a man and a politican. She came from the Boston Brahmin caste..her forebears looked down with utter contempt on upstart nouveau riche Boston pols like Joe Kennedy and his brood.
I'm beginning t think her involvement was a not so subtle message t Dulles. Ensuring his silence and/or co operation. The assassination went far deeper than just the CIA..This was about power at its profoundest basest level. Kennedy was never considered a traitor because he never belonged. He was viewed as a vulgar arriviste. An aberration.
His presidency ended the facade of democratic accountability.
I'm not saying it was some Grand Super Duper Unified Conspiracy. It didn't need t be. Just a few extremely well connected, extremely powerful individuals. The CIA, military industrial complex, FBI etc were not monolithic bodies moving in lockstep. At the very top of the pyramid we find the same people. Who socialise together, marry into each other's families, live in the same uber exclusive WASP enclaves, people who know each other intimately.
And their secrets.
Chennault and his wife moved in that rarified atmosphere.
Kennedy represented the first timid relaxing of the stultifying post War Eisenhower era complacency. The murmurings that wafted up into the ivory towers, from the busboys at the country clubs or the caddies on the golf course, the first stirrings of the great restless masses just waiting t awaken from their torpor- the poor, the immigrants the " coloured folk" so long denied their basic human dignity- terrified those individuals. They made damn sure this whole Kennedy business was taken care of.
With extreme prejudice.
Roy Truly is a link in the chain. A tiny albeit relatively insignificant link. Not too far removed from Lee himself at the very bottom of the chain.
But a link nevertheless.
I'm not the slightest bit surprised Jimbo Baggins would steal your research Greg then twist it t suit his own nefarious doppelgangery needs.
Who else do they have t do any proper fucking research?
Butler? He's still bumbling about like Brian's Great Uncle Helmut who lost his Knight's Cross in a back street Buenos Aires brothel...looking for Emil fucking Gardos.
Fezzo? Judging by his scribbles and psychedelic doodles( like Jerry Garcia's dog's breakfast) i don't think he has the slightest idea what he's looking for himself...
I expect nothing less from those characters..
Some enterprising psychologist could write themselves a best seller on the inner mechanisms of the cult mindset. How the vulnerable and the self conscious are manipulated and seduced.
Baggins is turning that place into Scientology Central.
What's next? A.passing Juddufkist offering Trine Day's new improved e meters ( with Ee and Leee, Judyths Coronavirus booklet...all for a bargain $20000)
Your talents are wasted on that fucking shower. Armstrong ain't no Professor Moriarty!! More like Professor Horatio Huffenpuff whose Fantabulous Contraption once infamous fish fetishist/ B Movie actor Troy McClure( you might remember him from I put Hitlers Brain in my pet mouse- the Judy Vary Story or Jim Marrs vs the 2 billion year old silicon based lifeforms from Venus or my own personal favourite Independent director Cecil B DeBaggins remake of " There's A Girl in my Soup".." There's A Doppelganger in my Fez. Sadly DeBaggins lost out t Ralph Cinque and My Stretch of Texas Hound in Pyongyangs illustrious Film Festival..Ralphie swept the board winning no less than 12 KIMMIES for his sympathetic portrayal of a Korean connoisseur of canine flesh stuck in gloomy Buda during the Coronavirus lockdown...i have t confess the tin foil hat wrenching last scene when Ralph offers his golden OIC badge and the whole of that year's bok choy harvest t save Big Ralphie his pet Chihuahua had me in tears) intended t immortalise on the silver screen.
The actual mechanics of the set up itself has always fascinated me. Ruth Paine was obviously involved at some level. Maybe pre assassination she merely thought she was doing her " patriotic duty" by babysitting the family of an ex defector/ low level intel pawn. Post assassination i think shed have been an enthusiastic participant. Despite her saccharine public protestations t the contrary my guess is she despised JFK both as a man and a politican. She came from the Boston Brahmin caste..her forebears looked down with utter contempt on upstart nouveau riche Boston pols like Joe Kennedy and his brood.
I'm beginning t think her involvement was a not so subtle message t Dulles. Ensuring his silence and/or co operation. The assassination went far deeper than just the CIA..This was about power at its profoundest basest level. Kennedy was never considered a traitor because he never belonged. He was viewed as a vulgar arriviste. An aberration.
His presidency ended the facade of democratic accountability.
I'm not saying it was some Grand Super Duper Unified Conspiracy. It didn't need t be. Just a few extremely well connected, extremely powerful individuals. The CIA, military industrial complex, FBI etc were not monolithic bodies moving in lockstep. At the very top of the pyramid we find the same people. Who socialise together, marry into each other's families, live in the same uber exclusive WASP enclaves, people who know each other intimately.
And their secrets.
Chennault and his wife moved in that rarified atmosphere.
Kennedy represented the first timid relaxing of the stultifying post War Eisenhower era complacency. The murmurings that wafted up into the ivory towers, from the busboys at the country clubs or the caddies on the golf course, the first stirrings of the great restless masses just waiting t awaken from their torpor- the poor, the immigrants the " coloured folk" so long denied their basic human dignity- terrified those individuals. They made damn sure this whole Kennedy business was taken care of.
With extreme prejudice.
Roy Truly is a link in the chain. A tiny albeit relatively insignificant link. Not too far removed from Lee himself at the very bottom of the chain.
But a link nevertheless.
I'm not the slightest bit surprised Jimbo Baggins would steal your research Greg then twist it t suit his own nefarious doppelgangery needs.
Who else do they have t do any proper fucking research?
Butler? He's still bumbling about like Brian's Great Uncle Helmut who lost his Knight's Cross in a back street Buenos Aires brothel...looking for Emil fucking Gardos.
Fezzo? Judging by his scribbles and psychedelic doodles( like Jerry Garcia's dog's breakfast) i don't think he has the slightest idea what he's looking for himself...
I expect nothing less from those characters..
Some enterprising psychologist could write themselves a best seller on the inner mechanisms of the cult mindset. How the vulnerable and the self conscious are manipulated and seduced.
Baggins is turning that place into Scientology Central.
What's next? A.passing Juddufkist offering Trine Day's new improved e meters ( with Ee and Leee, Judyths Coronavirus booklet...all for a bargain $20000)
_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III
Bosworth Field 1485
Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963
For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging
" To answer your question I ALWAYS look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen From his soon to be published self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day Foreword Vince Palamara)
" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
- greg_parkerAdmin
- Posts : 8368
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 66
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 18 May 2020, 12:07 am
This trip down another rabbit hole with the H & L crowd is now officially over.
I have my own team of Gravediggers (Jessica Shores & Linda Z) and they shall not be beaten.
Jessica has put the question concerning William Chenault being a cousin to Claire Chennault beyond dispute.
And as a bonus, she also found the good General was related to Robert E Lee -- as was one Lee Harvey Oswald.
Which I would think means that Lee Oswald and Mildred Truly were very distantly related... BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT! I am shit at genealogy.
Sometimes I feel really sorry for the 13 Inch Head crew... it's a tough gig.
Thank you again, Jessica.
I have my own team of Gravediggers (Jessica Shores & Linda Z) and they shall not be beaten.
Jessica has put the question concerning William Chenault being a cousin to Claire Chennault beyond dispute.
And as a bonus, she also found the good General was related to Robert E Lee -- as was one Lee Harvey Oswald.
Which I would think means that Lee Oswald and Mildred Truly were very distantly related... BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT! I am shit at genealogy.
Sometimes I feel really sorry for the 13 Inch Head crew... it's a tough gig.
Thank you again, Jessica.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Jake_Sykes
- Posts : 1100
Join date : 2016-08-15
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 18 May 2020, 3:38 am
Game, set, and, match Greg. Although your team may have had an extra player on the court. No matter. A win well played.
_________________
Release clear scans. Reveal the truth about Prayer Man. Preserve the history of the assassination of JFK.
- greg_parkerAdmin
- Posts : 8368
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 66
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 18 May 2020, 9:13 am
It's only fair, Jake. They use doppelgangers to set the plays up.Jake Sykes wrote:Game, set, and, match Greg. Although your team may have had an extra player on the court. No matter. A win well played.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- greg_parkerAdmin
- Posts : 8368
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 66
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia
Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 18 May 2020, 12:57 pm
You know, some people can pull off a "Cool Hand Luke" and keep swinging long after they're beat. But others... well, they are like John.the john butler trio wrote:The Chenaults may indeed be cousins with the Chennaults, but to find and prove that in US Census records you will need to go back further then 1895. And, 1830 in the Chenault and Chennault families.
Census Records are considered one of the standards of genealogy research. Generally, Census records are considered to reliable and true unless falsified by other Census records contradicting earlier ones, or other records such as birth, death, marriage, and Social Security records which build a case contradicting evidence found in Census records.
Earlier the lineage of Mildred Chenault was listed to the 4th generation to her great-grandfather Robert T. Chenault: born abt 1830 – died before 1870 census.
The Chenault family spelled their family name that way as early as about 1830 with Robert T.'s birth. If you look at the listed genealogy records of 4 generations of Chenaults and Chennaults there are no family connections up to the 1850 Census. Things become murkier in the 1840 and earlier census due to not listing children.
Claire "Flying Tiger" Chennault may have believed he was related to William Chenault just as William believed. But, at this point neither could prove that to a genealogist by evidence from 4 generations in the US Census. You would have to look past 1830 or provide other evidence.
Other evidence would need to be presented. This is mentioned earlier by others, but I see no evidence supporting the contentions that they were cousins other than family statements and newspaper articles.
As stated in the latest newspaper stories, William Chenault was the family historian/genealogist entrusted to keep all the family (inclusive of Chennaults and Chenaults) up-to-date on family news and business. This totaled about 500 people - about a 5th or more of whom would turn up for reunions. So Claire Chennault was NOT the only one in the family who has to be mistaken. That's 500 people, among which none questioned the person running the reunions about his bona fides as a genuine member of the family? Or when/why the name change began? Utter balderdash.
Whatever William used to do the family history, it trumped Mr Butler's census records - which William probably did not have access to anyway. His findings would be based on birth, deaths and marriage records and family oral history. The exact document Mr Butler says you would need to prove the census records wrong.
But strictly for the sake of argument (because they really were related), let's assume that William and Claire only THOUGHT they were related, but were not. I say a big "so what?" The end result is they same. They have a connection. They knew each other.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 18 May 2020, 1:27 pm
And furthermore!
I hotly dispute that census records are the first records to go to. I mean, I assume every sane individual is like me and either avoids the census or if that's not possible, they just lie like crazy. The government doesn't need to know what color my toilet paper is (blue pastel)...
According to government census records, I studied Charles Bukowski at university for 3 years, am 10 years younger, am a member of the Cult of the Greater Horny Toad, have been married 6 times, divorced once, and am the adoptive father of three Mexicans and a Canadian.
I hotly dispute that census records are the first records to go to. I mean, I assume every sane individual is like me and either avoids the census or if that's not possible, they just lie like crazy. The government doesn't need to know what color my toilet paper is (blue pastel)...
According to government census records, I studied Charles Bukowski at university for 3 years, am 10 years younger, am a member of the Cult of the Greater Horny Toad, have been married 6 times, divorced once, and am the adoptive father of three Mexicans and a Canadian.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Mon 25 May 2020, 2:07 am
greg parker wrote:Roy Truly
· During WW II he held a second job at night at the North American Aviation Plant in Arlington by cutting down his hours at the depository
· Defense plants during the war were protected from subversives and saboteurs by a network of informants on the floor. Although I cannot prove it, I believe Truly had such a role. Bill Shelley also worked in a defense plants during the war before starting with the TSBD in October 1945. He did not name the defense plants, but North American Aviation in Arlington with Truly seems like a safe assumption as one.
Greg,
Just some food for thought:
History of Aviation in Grand Prairie
https://www.gptx.org/about-us/history/history-of-aviation-in-grand-prairie
Just southeast of Curtiss-Wright, Hensley Army Air Force Base opened in 1932. Although technically in Dallas, the base (which in 1943 was renamed Dallas Naval Air Station) would forever change Grand Prairie. In 1939, North American Aviation, an industry giant, chose a site west of Hensley Field for its new production plant.
On Sept. 28, 1940, North American broke ground on the new plant. North American’s plant was constructed of concrete and steel and was the first windowless, fully air-conditioned and artificially lit aircraft production facility in the U.S. The plant was dedicated on April 7, 1941.
By the war’s end in 1945, employment had dropped to 15,000, all of whom lost their jobs on Aug. 14, 1945 when the government cancelled its contracts for war planes. North American returned the Grand Prairie facility to the government, which immediately began the task of finding a tenant.Post War Era 1946-1960
Two former North American executives leased part of the vacant facility and created Texas Engineering and Manufacturing Company (Temco). By late 1946, the company employed 2,500.
About the same time, Chance Vought Aviation, a producer of 13,000 navy aircraft and missiles during WWII, began searching for a new home for its Connecticut facility. On April 8, 1948, Vought subleased space from Temco. By late 1949, the company had moved 1,300 people and 27 million pounds of machinery the 1,687 miles from Connecticut to Grand Prairie.
With the onset of the Korean War in 1950, Vought’s production centered on the F4U Corsair fighter. These birds were so successful that the Marines had Vought design a version, the AU-1, specifically for air-to-ground support. Corsairs were followed by the successful F8U Crusader jet in 1955.
Vought’s landlord, Temco remained viable through subcontracting into the late 1950s. In July 1960, Temco merged with James Ling, an electronics firm.
Ling-Temco-Vought
In 1956 Ling bought L.M. Electronics, and in 1959 added Altec Electronics, a maker of stereo systems and speakers. In 1960 Ling merged the company with Temco Aircraft, best known for its missile work. In 1961, using additional funding from insurance businessman Troy Post and Texas oil baron David Harold Byrd they acquired Chance Vought aerospace in a hostile takeover.[1] The new company became Ling-Temco-Vought. (LTV).John Simkin in the Education Forum December 2, 2006.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/8715-david-harold-byrd/
“In 1944 Byrd founded Byrd Oil Corporation and B-H Drilling Corporation. In 1952 Byrd established the Three States Natural Gas Company. Byrd later sold Byrd Oil to Mobil and Three States to Delhi-Taylor. Byrd used this money to invest in aircraft production and established Temco. A company that employed Mac Wallace after he was convicted of killing John Kinser.”
[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/B Disk/Boxley Memos Miscellaneous/Item 06.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Boxley%20Memos%20Miscellaneous/Item%2006.pdf[/url] (page 2).
4. J. CARLIN BRANDT, chief, accounting clerk for Mobil Oil, moved from 601 N. Ewing St. in 1963 to 223 S. Ewing, Jack Ruby’s apartment house. Brandt is the name of the prime suspect in the Minute Man recruitment effort in the Matamorros bar six weeks before the assassination who told Alan Dale’s informant that the Minute Men had a contract to kill JFK. The latter Brandt - one John Brandt, combination gunsmith and Minute Man from the Ray Brantley circle in Dallas, a former employee of Brantley’s, dropped out of directory listings after the assassination, and Penn Jones advises via Mary now that John Brandt is living covertly at 2960 Colfing Green, Farmers Branch, Texas, another widely recognized residential area of Dallas, which was a hot-bed of anti-castro speeches and activities prior to the assassination. At the time of the killing, JOHN 3RANDT was living at 801 Rindie, Irving. He was given a job by LING-TEMPCO-VAUGHT, than disappeared about a year ago, ostensibly for an operation, and went into his present hiding in Farmers Branch.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Wed 27 May 2020, 11:51 am
Thanks for the additional background info, Steve.
I don't doubt the contract angle at all.
I don't doubt the contract angle at all.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Sun 26 Feb 2023, 3:32 pm
I guess one could say that Korth was the mastermind of the plot.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Tue 28 Feb 2023, 6:34 am
Jim DiEugenio has a convincing argument that the TFX scandal (presumably Fred Korth’s motivation for being involved in the JFK assassination) was not really a scandal. Would there another motivation for Korth to be involved?
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-the-tfx-case-a-scandal
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-the-tfx-case-a-scandal
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Tue 28 Feb 2023, 11:02 am
Reads more like a defense of McNamara and Kennedy.lanceman wrote:Jim DiEugenio has a convincing argument that the TFX scandal (presumably Fred Korth’s motivation for being involved in the JFK assassination) was not really a scandal. Would there another motivation for Korth to be involved?
https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/was-the-tfx-case-a-scandal
JFK News Conference, 10/31/63
Q. Mr. President, Navy Secretary Korth had some correspondence which indicated he worked very hard for the Continental National Bank of Fort Worth while he was in Government, as well as for the Navy, and that during this same period of time that he negotiated, or took part in the decision on a contract involving that bank's-one of that bank's best customers, the General Dynamics firm. I wonder if this fulfills the requirements of your Code of Ethics in Government, and if, in a general way, you think that it is within the law and proper?
THE PRESIDENT: In the case of the contract-the TFX contract-as you know, that matter was referred to the Department of Justice to see whether there was a conflict of interest and the judgment was that there was not. That is number one. Number two, the amount of the loan to the company. That bank was one of a number of banks which participated in a line of credit and it was relatively a small amount of money, as bank loans go. So in answer to your question, I have no evidence that Mr. Korth acted in any way improperly in the TFX matter. It has nothing to do with any opinion I may have about whether Mr. Korth might have written more letters and been busier than he should have been in one way or another. The fact of the matter is, I have no evidence that Mr. Korth benefited improperly during his term of office in the Navy. And I have no evidence, and you have not, as I understand it-the press has not produced any, nor the McClellan committee-which would indicate that in any way he acted improperly in the TFX. I always have believed that innuendoes should be justified before they are made, either by me, in the Congress, or even in the press.
The size of the line of credit divided between a number of banks, was $200,000,000. Downplaying the size of it - and the time of it as Jim did, is a bit of a red herring. The significant fact was that the GD was one of the bank's biggest customers.
In the end, it was something not mentioned by Jim that forced Korth out. He had used departmental letterhead on numerous occasions to further the interests of the bank.
It is correct that no finding of a conflict of interest was made. But such findings in government are rarer than hen's teeth. Even hostile committees are loathe to find them because payback is always a bitch.
In any case, it should also be noted that any ethicist will tell you that failure to avoid the perception of a conflict of interests is just as bad as an actual conflict
According to an October 25, 1963 story by TIME, Korth was indeed sacked, although he appears to have been granted the option of falling on his sword, which he chose.
The assassination stopped any further digging. Who knows what that might have turned up.
The TIME story also makes other interesting observations.
- His government salary was half of what he was used to and he was struggling financially
- He had political ambitions and was somewhat envious of Connally
- To help with his financial woes, in June '63 he had to sell most of his stock in Continental Bank and borrow 10K from his mother-in-law. June was when JFK was first approached about a Texas trip
I wonder when he paid his mother-in-law back? He sepaprated from his wife shortly after the assassination...
Jim also touches on the fact that the TFX (as the F-111) lasted 10 years in Australia.
Wow. Does Jim have any idea how much absolute crap we have purchased in defense hardware to keep allies happy?
The F-111 debacle was one of the biggest scandals iin this country up to that point in time. That we stuck with them for any length of time is no indicator of quality. It is is an indicator that we are a very small and vulvernable fish who needs to keep larger fish friendly.
From wiki:
The [Australian] government determined that it did not need to go ahead with an immediate replacement for the Canberra and preferred Hancock's original choice of the TFX as a long-term solution, leading to the Menzies government's announcement on 24 October [1963] that it was ordering 24 F-111s[28] for US$125 million, enough for two squadrons.[29] The announcement came during the campaigning for the 1963 general election. Calwell's Labor party had on 22 October reiterated its pre-campaign promise that it would replace the Canberras as soon as it formed a government. The government's announcement, and the consequent improvement of its chances against Labor, likely also benefited the United States; the purchase helped rebut American critics of the TFX,[20] and the Kennedy administration preferred Menzies' defence policies to the opposition's.[30] The contract was signed the following year through the U.S. Department of Defense.[31] The British government's cancellation of the TSR-2 in April 1965 showed that Australia's decision to not order it was correct.[32]
You know when those suckers were finally built and delivered due to technical issues? 1973 and way way way over budget.
The ongoing saga was on the news here nearly every friggin night for the last few years of that 10 year wait.
The money we have thrown at shoddy defense contracts from subs to parachutes and from helicopters to healthcare providers could have paid the debt of every third world country on earth.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Wed 01 Mar 2023, 8:28 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/1963/10/23/archives/korth-sold-stocks-in-bank-to-pay-debt.html
WASHINGTON, Oct. 22 (AP)--Secretary of the Navy Fred Korth sold 5,000 of his 5,200 shares of stock in the bank he formerly headed to "pay off debts," an aide said today. He gave the date of the sale as last July.
WASHINGTON, Oct. 22 (AP)--Secretary of the Navy Fred Korth sold 5,000 of his 5,200 shares of stock in the bank he formerly headed to "pay off debts," an aide said today. He gave the date of the sale as last July.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Thu 02 Mar 2023, 7:33 am
Just leave it all to Marge....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwR-WHckC6d_OLZM4XKycQDEc44RMvr1/view?usp=sharing
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt. Scan by me.
Oh and his resignation.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FIPMecIPal4CFtbZMhT_dgIidv8y6AMj/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nl-Flj8NGvpshdfNYfG_eABoiYNmNCX3/view?usp=share_link
John B Gooch wrote:
Fred Korth was the Secretary of the Navy. In 1961, Korth was on the board of directors of the Bell Aerospace Corp .. Six weeks before the assassination, Korth was forced to resign by Pres. Kennedy because he helped to award the TFX fighter
plane contract to General Dynamics over Boeing.
Secretary Korth's office log during the period in 1962 prior to the TFX decision showed 16 contacts between him and officials of General Dynamics, including 7 visits by Frank Davis, senior vice-president of General Dynamics. The log showed only two visits with Boeing officials.
Also, Korth had been on the board of directors of the Continental National Bank of Fort
Worth when the bank entered a creditors' pool that extended $200 million to General Dynamics.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FwR-WHckC6d_OLZM4XKycQDEc44RMvr1/view?usp=sharing
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt. Scan by me.
Oh and his resignation.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FIPMecIPal4CFtbZMhT_dgIidv8y6AMj/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nl-Flj8NGvpshdfNYfG_eABoiYNmNCX3/view?usp=share_link
John B Gooch wrote:
Fred Korth was the Secretary of the Navy. In 1961, Korth was on the board of directors of the Bell Aerospace Corp .. Six weeks before the assassination, Korth was forced to resign by Pres. Kennedy because he helped to award the TFX fighter
plane contract to General Dynamics over Boeing.
Secretary Korth's office log during the period in 1962 prior to the TFX decision showed 16 contacts between him and officials of General Dynamics, including 7 visits by Frank Davis, senior vice-president of General Dynamics. The log showed only two visits with Boeing officials.
Also, Korth had been on the board of directors of the Continental National Bank of Fort
Worth when the bank entered a creditors' pool that extended $200 million to General Dynamics.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Thu 02 Mar 2023, 11:01 am
John B Gooch wrote:
Fred Korth was the Secretary of the Navy. In 1961, Korth was on the board of directors of the Bell Aerospace Corp .. Six weeks before the assassination, Korth was forced to resign by Pres. Kennedy because he helped to award the TFX fighter
plane contract to General Dynamics over Boeing.
Secretary Korth's office log during the period in 1962 prior to the TFX decision showed 16 contacts between him and officials of General Dynamics, including 7 visits by Frank Davis, senior vice-president of General Dynamics. The log showed only two visits with Boeing officials.
Also, Korth had been on the board of directors of the Continental National Bank of Fort
Worth when the bank entered a creditors' pool that extended $200 million to General Dynamics.
So if all the info above is true - then Jimmy D's basically sayin' "nothin' to see here"
Yeah right.
Fred Korth was the Secretary of the Navy. In 1961, Korth was on the board of directors of the Bell Aerospace Corp .. Six weeks before the assassination, Korth was forced to resign by Pres. Kennedy because he helped to award the TFX fighter
plane contract to General Dynamics over Boeing.
Secretary Korth's office log during the period in 1962 prior to the TFX decision showed 16 contacts between him and officials of General Dynamics, including 7 visits by Frank Davis, senior vice-president of General Dynamics. The log showed only two visits with Boeing officials.
Also, Korth had been on the board of directors of the Continental National Bank of Fort
Worth when the bank entered a creditors' pool that extended $200 million to General Dynamics.
So if all the info above is true - then Jimmy D's basically sayin' "nothin' to see here"
Yeah right.
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Re: Roy Truly - Fred Korth connection
Thu 02 Mar 2023, 12:51 pm
Looks like Jim is trying to downplay Korth's activities.
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