FAO MARK STEVENS

First topic message reminder :

Mr Stevens you have my utmost respect for having both the patience and the perseverance , attempting the unenviable task of getting someone seemingly dedicated to obfuscatory double talk and obscurantist rambling to  answer a few basic questions.
Questions a sincere researcher would be delighted to answer 
You'll find dealing with the H and L gang frustrating and demoralising.
To put it bluntly you're dealing with individuals who have absolutely no respect for themselves or others.
Individuals who delight in being obtuse and maddeningly perverse.
Who'll use every shoddy underhanded method to prop up their disintegrating fantasy.
Who'll exploit peoples sincerity and their requests for elucidation to swamp the thread with their stale propaganda.
Your questions have exposed everything I most despise about Baggins and his motley cohorts; further increasing my suspicion that hesh intent on turning research into a travesty; making a stupid infantile game out of people's sincere desire to find out just what happened that day 
If it doesn't involve a puny malnourished HARVEY and bullnecked all American LEE the H and L cultists  aren't interested..
It's called the Baggins Patented Shuffle; when cornered hell  change the subject, employing his trademark gloating insincere tone, appealing to the paranoid anti government mindset so prevalent on that particular forum 
His " theory" is in tatters; all he's got left are some anomalies and loose ends 
Misinterpreted school records, hazy decades old memories that were given the Armstrong makeover.
Its impossible to argue rationally with them.
They have absolutely no respect for the basic tenets of epistemology .
Mention Popper's theory of falsification, you'll get a blank stare or an interminable rant about Karl HARVEY Popper, a one legged Swahili speaking travelling salesman from Westphalia who infliltrated the cast of Beverley Hills 90210 looking for mind controlled communist assassin's 
The presposterous basic premise and the mastoidectomy blows the whole nonsensical H and L caper clean out the water .
All they can do is duck and dive down the dimly lit alleys of decades old memories, hovering under the sickly neon glow of purposefully misinterpreted school records. Yelling out down the grimy garbage strewn streets
" All the documents were faked!! Except for the ones we need to be genuine"
They can believe what they want; Baggins, Butler and Swinging Sandy cavorting like the three witch's...chanting" puny bookish HARVEY and bullnecked all American LEE" round their cauldron until a goatlegged figure appears brandishing the Holy Scrolls of Myra DaRouse in his misshapen talon .... it's the hypocrisy, intellectual dishonesty and insincerity I can't abide 
Gleefully searching for honest but poorly informed newbies to mislead and misinform.
The haughty dismissiveness of Norwood " There is no debate"
And the bumbling incompetence of Swinging Sandy and Butler .
Kudos to you Mark for having the guts and the tenacity to try 
Keep asking the question; don't let Baggins windy bluster distract you.

Wise of you to step back Mr Stevens. The thread will limp along with Hargroves shamelessly pimping crap. He will issue a challenge to refute his crap. He will avoid, at all costs, any legitimate questions about his crap. It's who he is. It's what he does. You now know this.
Dr Norwood has been wrapped in cotton wool lest any replies cause bruising to this oh so delicate soul.
Dr Larsen, who admits he's no H&L expert, has given himself straight A's at forensic dentistry. Make of that what you will.
Damn shame you didn't get to debate Dr Doyle. He insists that H&L were the result of CIA sperm experiments. Experiments that were performed 8 years before CIA itself was created. To give him his due he would have attempted to defend his position. But that's because he's a loon.
The others, they are a different matter all together. Quite sane.

Funnily enough Steely I've just finished a book about pre WW2 American intelligence agencies. Primarily in relation to the " Magic" codebreakers and the controversy over Pearl Harbour.
Secretary of State Cordell Hulls comment always stuck in my mind:
" Gentlemen do not read each others mail"  That's one of the privileges of being a fully flegded member of the Conspiratocracy ( although our Brian only qualifies for junior membership. Hes still trying to work out how his X ray specs work..Brian Doyle.. membership no 00069666 secret squirrel conspiracy club) they're not bound by any rational laws .Theyre only limit is the padded walls of their imagination. Brian, read about a dude called Trofim Lysenko..youre y his ideological successor. Little Harvey Doppelganger born 8 years before the CIA was formed you say? No problems!! Just invent a cutting edge sperm experiment or two. 
Pre WW2 the American military establishment was a small poorly funded ramshackle affair. The dramatic transformation ( exemplified by the Pentagon building) between 1941 and 1945, when wreathed in the laurels of victory the American colossus bestrode the globe as the newly annoited defender of " free people" is unprecedented in history.
Roosevelt's death was the catalyst; Truman, a foreign policy ingenue ( who wasn't even aware of the Manhattan Project) was suborned then expertly manipulated by the hawks who circled him.
The Truman Doctrine was absolutely crucial to the development of the Cold War..
Doyle, and his conspiratorial confreres inhabit a cartoon Dreamworld. Full of one dimensional caricatures...
I've just wasted two hours of a Sunday morning plodding through the entire thread in question.. including a detour over to the Kingdom of the 13 Inch Headed; specifically Doc Norwoods article on Oswald's linguistic proficiency..
I'm sorry to say in my opinion it's the work of an ideologue not a scholar. 
I know Steve Thomas is a member here, and I've a lot of time for his careful methodical approach so id like to try and answer a question for him 
Hopefully demonstrating how a lot of these " non mysteries" get started.
The references to Comrade Lee Harvey and Citizen Harvey Lee are easily explained.
The Russian system of address, both official and unofficial utilised the patronymic. That was the long established system.
Sometimes in official correspondence the addressees name would be written patronymic first.
For example Nikolayevich, Nikolai instead of Nikolai Nikolayevich.
So obviously the writer presumed Harvey was the patronymic.
Comrade and Citizen were used interchangeably. Like " sir" or " Mr".. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Citizen was used as the more formal, less personal mode of address. In the GULAgs the prisoners were forbidden to use the word Comrade .referr ref to the guards as Citizen 
In Russian there's " Ty" and "vy"..Ty being used between close friends and family members.
Friends commonly referred to one another by name and patronymic.
For example Boris Shaposhnikov, ex Tsarist Colonel who rose to become STAVKA chief of staff and full Marshal, was one of the very few people allowed to address Stalin as Iosif Vissiarionovich.
Molotov and Beria were the only ones permitted to use " Ty" as a form of address
Comrade Lee Harvey and Citizen Harvey Lee is thus easily explained.
Ill say it again: Oswald's linguistic capability is not some great cosmic mystery.
It probably explains why this obscure teenage Marine private was plucked out of the olive drab masses  
Someone obviously spotted his talent.
This myth about Oswald the native speaker needs to be knocked on the 13 inch head once and for all 
His proficiency was exactly what you would expect from a gifted, motivated young man who sought to better himself.
As soon as you  stop looking at Oswald through a tin foil enhanced microscope and look at him as a human being things become a lot clearer.
They may not be quite so mysterious and romantic .but then again reality is often mundane..

Lessons learned from todays activity.
Hargrove's is a poor second to The Vacant Lot when it comes to baiting.
Norwood will demand you are arrested if your cat shits in his garden.
Larsen would rather talk about teeth.
Doyle is itching to respond to Ford...

steely_dan wrote:Lessons learned from todays activity.
Hargrove's is a poor second to The Vacant Lot when it comes to baiting.

I blame this poor performance on his goatee and I have no idea why.

Norwood will demand you are arrested if your cat shits in his garden.

Dr Norwood believes the cat should get it's shit together and stop pissing on his row of HARVEY GMO patsy plants. 

Larsen would rather talk about teeth.

He has a nice set.

Doyle is itching to respond to Ford...

Not so sure that itch is in any way related to wanting to speak to anyone. Can someone pass him the antiseptic cream?

The good Doctor Norwood has plucked up the requisite courage to raise his 13 inch head ( albeit briefly) above the parapet 
The ever so sensitive about people's feelings/ im going to tell teacher on you Doctor( for Armstrong's sake what sort of petty minded little man scuttles off to tell tales anyway? ImI guessing school must have been hell for the good doctor) has opened up his attempted rebuttal with this little gem .
Referring to Jeremy B, Mark Stevens and RC-D as you( Jeremy) and your cohorts. I wonder how he would have reacted if Jeremy had referred to him and his cohorts? A small but revealing example of the run of the mill hypocrisy of the cultsters .. Can't you just imagine him running shrieking to Headmaster Gordon? 
(Doc Norwood is obviously Headmaster Gordon's little pet... Leaving a nice shiny apple on his desk every morning...beside his newly oiled cane and the book one of the OIC members sent him ." The Der Sturmer guide to good 13 inch headmastering by Julius Streicher" It came back so stained from Don Jeffries dorm that poor old Lord Gordo thought it had been down Sanibel way .
Both Donnie and Lord Gordos hearts skipped a beat when they pulled it out of its plain brown envelope..for one magical moment they thought the title was " How to master giving good head to 13 inch schoolboys...I can hear the helicopter blades thrumming outside the window... the Docs obviously called the SAS anti troll punk team)
Proceeding then to denigrate them for not realising it's the " totality " of the evidence that matters.
Displaying more of his " clear thinking"
It's a totally rigged game these guys play .
Apparently Bobbie Pitts recalling some kid who resembled LHO watching a ball game corroborates Francesca Schubert's decades old memories. 
Watch the fucking tape!! I'm only exaggerating ever so slightly when I say Armstrong is almost as bad as the fearless truth seekers who interviewed Anna Lewis( surprise surprise Fezzo didn't even bat an eyelid when he used Anna Lewis's ahem " memories" to " confirm" LEE was in New Orleans while HARVEY was still in Minsk) The Schubert interview is worthless. Armstrong asks more leading questions than the captain of the Sanibel parachuteless lemmings team on the annual " Let's Go Jump Off A Cliff Day!!
Anyone without an agenda( I was going to say honest researcher but I had images of Doc Norwood summoning the UN SWAT team that deals with ill mannered trolls who persist in asking awkward questions) would recoil in horror at Armstrong's interview technique.
The whole shoddy Stripling edifice rests upon Robert Oswald's highly fallible recollections and Frank Kudlatys highly dubious( at best) story and Francetta Schubert's decades old memories which are rendered even more suspect by Armstrong's car salesman like interview technique.
Doc Norwood ends by riffing a little on the H and L stalwart. The doppelgangers equivalent of the 50s chord progression.
" Everything is fake, except for what I say is genuine"
The evidence is so suspect ( translated from the 13 Inch Headed idiom.. there's absolutely NOTHING except wilfully misinterpreted school records and garbled decades old memories to support my rapidly disintegrating doppelganger fantasy) we must rely on eye witness testimony and the totality of the evidence ( my 13 inch head is not quite what it used to be but that roughly translates as don't bother examining the evidence too closely just marvel at the quantity.. although some scholars of the 13 Inch Headed idiom suggest this translates better as we'll grab onto any straw at all... anything. For the drowning man and the 13 Inch Headed man any piece of wood, no matter how brittle and rotten is better than sinking under the waves .
Likewise Norwoods article on Oswald's linguistic capability.
As if marine privates are going to be able to distinguish individual Russian newspapers..
When Oswald was reported as speaking poor Russian it was because he was hiding his true capabilities. But when he was reported as speaking fluent Russian it was because he was really a multi lingual doppelganger who was a native speaker of English/ Russian/ Hungarian.
They take no account of the circumstances or who was doing the reporting.
Addendum- Butler's now rejoined the thread. Giving us all the benefit of his deep insights into the newsprint of the 1960s.
It's impossible to make any real sense out of his disjointed barely literate ramblings but would it surprise you to know that he's ( apparently) trying to argue the FWST article has been faked?
Depressingly monotonously predictable.
The only thing I find more terrifying to his and Swinging Sandy Larsen's apparent imperviousness to the absolute fools they're making of themselves is the thought of Butler being allowed in a 20 fucking mile radius of a class of impressionable young people.
What havoc did he wreak? The mind absolutely boggles 
Consorting with Butler and Larsen is almost as bad as consorting with Cinque

Want to know something funny, Alex. 
A few years ago Hargrove persuaded the VBL (who had a few minutes to spare)to give a H&L presentation rather than make it himself.
Motives?

Plausible deniability perhaps...
Remember the ol' Drago/ Evica conspiracy model?
Armstrong epitomises the faceless stateless " Sponsor"( where is Herr Burnham these days anyway? If he gets anymore faceless and invisible he'll become a candidate for sponsorship himself.. maybe like our Brian he was so deep undercover he didn't even know he was undercover. Until his control agent mentioned his trigger words " anal bleaching")
Jimbo Baggins is the facilitator... although I can think of plenty more f words that would be equally, if not more applicable..
And the poor old VBL is the mechanic ... it's her( or Mac Wallace's, what say you Mr Johnson?) fingerprints that'll be found all over the half read book .
I don't know if you remember her defence Steely, when someone enquired why she hadn't even read the fucking book she'd given a talk on and praised to the high heavens ... gushing over it as if it was a previously undiscovered original Oscar Wilde play " The Importance of being HARVEY".. 
Remember her reply?
" It's a big book!!"
That's about as deep as the Foo got... we're talking 6 degrees of foo-ness here...along with the " other film" and Chauncey Holts dentures...Doug Caddy discovered them in Pat Nixon's knicker drawer wrapped up in the draft treaty between humanity and the 2 billion year old sentient rocks from Venus .
To find out what Doug Caddy was doing in Pat Nixon's knicker drawer you're going to have to wait for Trine Day to publish the latest installment of his memoirs... 
Or if you can't wait for that how about Doug Caddy- the musical..
A cross between Arnold Layne and Close Encounters of a Third Kind .

Quoted by RCD from the FWST wrote:She did not smile as she said, “Well — I’m Mrs. Oswald.”

Cripes Robert.... now we are going to get 12 pages about how you've proved this was the short dumpy unibrowed UNSMILING fake Marguerite!

Lessons learned from todays activity.
Hargrove was a classmate of Trejo.
Dr Norwood wants to take the ball home...even though it's not his.
Dr Larsen took the day off to play golf.
Dr Doyle is itching to reply to Ford...but it might cost him 20 bucks.

The Harvey and Lee clowns are funnier than circus clowns. Even if they do not intend it to be that way.

That's why they're so funny Vinny!! Savour the lunacy. Because it is nothing but sheer unadulterated lunacy..
I like to imagine Mo, Larry and Swinging Curly Larsen ( with Doc Norwood as Shemp  the straightest straight man in the business. Even better, giving a little tip of the tin foil hat to the good Doctor's previous incarnation as " Chairman" of that most august of scholarly bodies : the OIC, who did to photographic analysis what Reinhard fucking Heydrich did for community relations- Fake Shemp . For like his new chum, that paragon of sober evidence based analysis John Butler, Ralph Cinque liked to think everything was FAKE FAKE FAKE!!)picturing themselves in some ancient oak panelled lecture theatre...surrounded by the soft air of centuries worth of learning. The portraits of their illustrious forebears staring down...Newton, Gallileo, Rutherford, Oppenheimer, Stephen Hawking, Davros from Dr Who, those three pioneering natural philosophers Dick Emery, Lord Larry Grayson and of course the greatest of them all Sir Les Dawson
Brow furrowed, stroking their chins reflectively.. pondering the great imponderables of the age ..why did Marguerite Oswald look so different? " These photos were taken 40 years apart!!" Butler splutters as Swinging Curly gravely nods his 13 inch hatted head.." How can this possibly be? Look at her hair!! Her poise...this photo looks like a young lady while this one looks like an old woman!!!"
" If only Jack White was still alive" Mo Baggins sighs wistfully...
My advice Vinny is to savour the lunacy!! Outside Sanibel Island you won't see such a wonderful example of self inflicted degassing( although according to Don Jeffries and his citizen researchers absolutely no gas was involved). Four pompous windbags reduced to pieces of colourful rubber cascading drunkenly through the air ..emitting flatulent shrieks as the air  escapes and the balloons deflate...
Much like what happened one ill omened evening behind the East Prussian Prophylactic Factory...when SS Oberfuhrer Von Doyle tested his new " Wunderwaffen" the perforated condom on willing guinea pig Donna Von Jeffries...
Between Jeremy B, Mark Stevens, RC-D and with Greg's pretty much disabusing the notion that Kudlaty would even have had any fucking records to hand over to the FBI in the first place, the whole Stripling High story has crumbled to dust 
Any researcher, or indeed any student or interested observer genuinely interested in the facts should have enough integrity to admit that Stripling High is a non event 
It should be studied yes, but only as an example of how unreliable decades old eyewitness testimony really is . Stripling High should be renamed The Anatomy of An Urban Legend .how biased research, wishful thinking and downright mythologising can obstruct genuine research.
Before the H and L gang write another fucking word they should read Elizabeth Loftuss seminal book on the vagaries of eye witness testimony.
Im sure in his private life Jack White was a wonderful caring philanthropic guy .. just like his bestest bud Frankie K...but his " research" was utterly calamitous.
Exerting a truly pernicious effect, encouraging the terrifying drop in standards that allowed the likes of Butler and Cinque to make their preposterous claims.
Just saying something is faked is enough. They don't have to say who faked it, when it was faked, how it was faked.... resorting to the same tactics , no even worse in fact, than the Warren Commissioners.
At least they attempted to explain the who's, how's and whys ..
In hindsight White's extravagant praise,  his eagerness to emphasise his best buds probity, moral rectitude and honesty should have set the alarm bells ringing..Remember the thanks Greg got for raising a very valid question? That despicable wretch Jeffries wringing his hands before hectoring Greg for having the sheer audacity to question Jack White..the more things change, the more they remain the same ..here we are a decade or so later being scolded for being impolite enough to ask a question!!!
Doctor Norwood I hope youve complained to the appropriate authorities about Don Jeffries.
Since a few very reasonable questions upset your delicate constitution I can only speculate what your response will be when you discover yoursy sharing a forum with a holocaust denier.
And a disgusting little man who leeches parasitically onto any tragedy. 
Usually when someone goes out of their way to eulogise another's impeccable honesty more often than not it's for impeccably dishonest motives .
Lets adopt one of the cults favourite maxims .. about the totality of the evidence. How does the possibility of Kudlaty being encouraged to " massage" his memories or conjure up some fresh memories, that surprise surprise fits snugly into the doppelganger narrative fit into what we know about how Armstrong and his acolytes conducted their investigation?.
Did Armstrong habitually massage the evidence to fit his chosen template? Did he ignore contradictory evidence? Presenting his readers with an unfairly skewed evidenciary picture? Did he encourage certain witnesses to " remember"?
He most certainly did 
Not mentioning the mastoidectomy, what he did with Myrtle Evans testimony and Dorothy Marcums statement ...not forgetting the alchemical wedding of Bolton Ford... trying to turn the base metal of hearsay into gold by putting the words in another fucking person's mouth..
These are just a few of the most egregious examples ..
Although I can't deny my motives are not exactly what you might call detached or altruistic ( I took the H and L story on good faith. My deprogramming began when I started reading Armstrong's own fucking sources!! The Baylor notebooks Fezzo and Baggins would have us believe contain nothing less than the answer to profound cosmic mysteries... the Gnostic gospel of LEE .written pre  Dormition on the back of one of Juddufkis contraceptive pill boxes) I admit I felt like I was conned by a very superficially persuasive peddler of snake oil, .I hope I still retain enough integrity and intellectual honesty to look at all the evidence and weigh each piece fairly and according to it's merits...
The totality of the evidence Armstrong himself collected and perhaps more importantly how he went about collecting it leads me to conclude that Stripling High belongs on the scrapheap.
Along with missing teeth, sloping shoulders, Beauregard School and other exotica 
I can't help but think that wily ol' Jimbo Baggins will be chuckling all the way back to his little Hobbit hole, round the back end of sleepy Bell End hill...he knows full well it's all a load of fucking shite.. you know what they say about publicity? ANY publicity is good publicity..Baggins is just doing his job .
Willy Loman with great big smelly hobbity feet.
HesH taking advantage of Butler's almost unbelievable stupidity, Curlys treasured self perceptions ( hesh almost as dumb as Butler.. stupid people who delude themselves into thinking theyre smart can do real fucking damage.)
 Doc Norwood is not stupid. Far from it. He's just out of his comfort zone. Also wild zany conspiracy theories seem to exert an almost hypnotic influence on him.
The wilder the better it seems . Armstrong preserve us from the day the good doctor appears sporting a grey  ponytail... babbling about how Stephane Mallarmé was assassinated by the time travelling alter ego of Jim Angleton!
This is what irritates me so much about Baggins. He uses honourable people as vehicles to spread his propaganda.
Just look at him spamming the thread continuously.
Ridicule is by far the best method..
Enjoy the lunacy Vinny because that's what it is absolute fucking lunacy..

Mark has dug out the following quote from Kudlaty

The records that I turned over to the FBI may have contained the elementary school records that you have in your file.

Firstly, I thought the theory was that the FBI was after ORIGINAL records which needed to be destroyed to cover up the "HUNGARIAN OSWALD RIDGLEA to STRIPLING ELEMENTARY SCHOOL for HITMEN & INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS" (HORSESHIT) Program. 

Secondly, why would Stripling have elementary school records? Even if he was expected to start there, wouldn't it be a summary file only? 

Thirdly, if he gave the FBI elementary school records, which were uncontroversial and fit with the official time-line, why would the FBI deep-six these copies (they had to be copies because more copies were obtained by the Attorney General for the WC)?

The only way the above makes sense is that Kudlaty obtained copies from the School District before meeting the FBI. Or he is still dissembling... leaving himself an "out" by throwing in the elementary school records as a curve ball. 

Can anyone put any better, or a more innocent explanation to Kudlaty's quote?

Either Kudlaty was mistaken or lying. Perhaps trying to insert himself into the story. His claims don't pass the sniff test.

Like Custer at the Little Bighorn...The Fez has arrived!
One MO had sloping tits. 
Didn't see that one coming tbh.

For a man in a fez who can barely string a coherent sentence together I'd be very careful before I started patronising others..
It's all just meaningless squiggles and doodles .
But I managed to decipher the key phrase
" The records were doctored"
Surprise, surprise...
All join hands and sing along with Fezzo
" You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know..
And everything we need to be faked .is because the man in the fez sez so"

Boys and girls..dont be like Mr Fez.. the poor bastard actually thinks his scribbles and disjointed word salads make sense..
This is what happens when you join a cult..

Lets not forget the wise old adage:
" In the land of the 13 Inch hats , the fez wearer is king"
Attributed to Boris Karloff, on the set of the Mummy ..
The original screenplay was a riff on the age old love story- Archeologist Joseph David, newly hired Armstrong professor of phrenology at Baylor university finds the mummy of Pharaoh Kudlaty IIs Great Royal Wife inexplicably buried under the floorboards of a suburban New Orleans house .
,After a steamy night in the French Quarter with a mysterious Hungarian dancer, a bottle of absinthe and a tape measure Joseph rushes home and tears off the bandages .. only to discover much to his horror( and arousal) the 3000 year old mummy is perfectly preserved....
Not only has she a 13 inch head and a strange glowing scar on her neck she is the double of Joseph's fiancée Marguerite Ekdahl ..whose estranged husband may be hiding a terrible secret ..and not just the results from Dr Haslam, notorious as " the Gonhorrea king of New Orleans"
Soon the usually mild mannered Joseph's, whose hobby is making lifesize nude sculptures of Stonewall Jackson out of asbestos is involved in a crazy nightmarish adventure...involving 3000 year old amorous doppelgangers.. just who is the strange old man with the limp and the glass eye? What is the mystery of San Sabba? And why is Joseph's fiancée suddenly interested in the Scrolls of Tel Voebel?  The legendary incantation of the mad priest Lemkin who was condemned to death over 3000 years ago for trying to perform the blasphemous ritual of Sets Knob? 
The Pyramid Texts of Kudlaty II tells of the ritual...and the dung farmer ScrumDrum who attempted to wear Sets Knob like a Unicorn's horn..for the legend says " He who wears Sets Knob and recites the Scrolls of Tel Voebel will become the greatest detective of all time!!

It's all so depressingly predictable.
Fezzo vomits up a veritable smorgasbord of barely literate sentence fragments and minimalist psychedelic doodles and Baggins gushes with delight..
It's obvious Fezzos been lovebombed by the guru..his ego well and truly massaged( youve taken the "work" a lot further down the road..but the road to where? The road that leads downtown...where feral kids roam in packs through the alleys, past the hollow eyed shadows crouching inside the doorways of boarded up pawnshops. Sorrow clings to the cold area with its skeletal talons and Death smiles as the night echoes with sirens and the chatter of hungry guns ..some roads are best ignored) Fezzo comes trotting back to the forum...
It's the same old stale rubbish.
There was an old British comedian- Tommy Cooper- he wore a fez and his catchphrase was " Just like that!!"
Need some school records doctored?
No problems!!
Just like that!!
Need some documents faked?
Just like that!!
Turn HARVEY into LEE?
Just like that!!
Scattered amidst the detritus of over two decades of failed doppelganging a couple of key phrases leapt out
" The records were doctored" and " the totality of the evidence"
Harvey and Lee operates in an alternate dimension. Were through the looking glass you see!! 
Because the CIA experimented with LSD and embarked on many wild wacky and downright immoral schemes we can switch off our critical faculties. Ignore the mundane physical laws that govern our existence.
Fezzo knows more than anyone ( guru excepting) about all this.
That's not exactly something to go around boasting about!
Would you listen to a man who claims to know everything about the Flat Earth? Or the 8 foot Nordic aliens that live at the bottom of his garden .
It's exactly the same principle.
To believe H and L you must first suspend all disbelief 
Accept the idea that an angry man in a fez possesses infinite wisdom.
Because hes read the book, the notebooks and the fucking CD..
You have to accept the basic proposition that a handful of wilfully misinterpreted school records, highly dubious decades old memories and some crank " photo interpretation' counts for more than the nonsensical central premise and the mastoidectomy that invalidated the theory TWENTY FUCKING YEARS before it even became a theory!!
Can you really blame Baggins and Fezzo if they get a little bad tempered from time to time 
I think wed all be more than just a little bad tempered having to publicly humiliate ourselves .
Saying that I can totally understand its allure.
Superficially it can appear very beguiling.
Like the bathroom scene in the Shining..before the sexy young girl turns into the pustulating decomposing hag..
Armstrong was enraptured with the idea of two Oswald's. Intoxicated with the idea that he was the one to figure it all out.
The Eastern European orphan recruited to pose as the disaffected American marine was the hook 
It was the hastily thought out cliché ridden plot required to stitch together the fantastic action sequences and next generation special effects.
The real historical Lee Harvey Oswald was the perfect candidate.
He had the perfect background. Broken home, single mother, introverted loner, record of truancy, drifting from city to city, school to school; never making any long lasting friendships.
Then with his military service he would have witnessed the brutal deprivations of Yankee Imperialism first hand.
The perfect résumé for the disaffected American kid; eager for a taste of the fabled Workers Paradise
He had the linguistic ability( the whole native speaker angle was, so I speculate, a post facto justification for the Hungarian doppelganger) he was nowhere near a native speaker. As usual the H and L gang rely on misdirection and sleight of hand. Relying on ONE highly contentious expert opinion and a whole host of non experts.
The argument about Oswald's linguistic proficiency is just more distraction anyway.
He didn't need to be a native speaker. Or have any experience and/or background at all.
He wasn't infiltrating the Soviet Union, he wasn't there to blend in 
He was a fucking American.
Did any of the other 15 defectors have long term doppelgangers?
Was there a Robert HARVEY Webster?
Of course there wasn't.
In purely historical terms the H and L caper is an anachronism.
Leaving aside the crazy central premise the idea of two unrelated boys growing up to be identical makes the whole idea laughable.
No wonder they want to bamboozle everyone with school records
You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know/ Everything we need to be fake is because a man in a fez sez so"
Mr Stevens, if you choose to interact with Fezzo let me tell you how it will unfold .
His " curious" enquiry is merely a prelude .unless you fall to your knees , slain by the spirit of fezzness it will proceed quickly to Stage Two.
It will be implied, with all the subtlety of a fez wearer in a shop that sells 13 inch hats that you are part of the FBIs COINTELPRO operation, tasked to silence the H and L gangs wonderful discoveries.
Fezzo is in the process of taking on the Military Industrial Congressional Complex singlehandedly!!!
I mean there's nothing else going on out in the real world. #1 topic of conversation round the Giant Owl in Bohemian Grove is how best to stop Butler blowing the lid on Hong Kong Phooey being in Dealey Plaza with a bazooka, Brian Doyle figuring out the CIAs special wig technology and Fezzo uncovering the dark secrets of MKSLOPE..Sidney Gottleibs attempt to create an army of supersoldiers with sloping shoulders and 13 inch heads ..
Just like that!!
Stage Three will culminate in your parentage, ancestry, cognitive abilities and sartorial tastes being questions.
The Education Forum poet laureate Brains Clark might even take a break from writing his latest " Scary Story" to demand that you be eradicated like the vermin you are for having the sheer audacity to question Harvey and Lee...
You have my complete respect for having the guts and the tenacity to confront these charlatans.
ADDENDUM-
Doc Norwood has just paid another fleeting visit; probably on his way to the etiquette class he teaches on Friday nights 
Displaying the mental dexterity that befits an ex chairman of the OIC his " argument" basically amounts to-" we're right and you're wrong"
Exhilarating display of clear thinking from the doppelgangers!!
Butler's come lumbering in , Armstrong alone knows where he came lumbering from .Every time I see Butlers vacant slack jawed expression I hear the distant plucking and strumming of duelling banjos..
Rusted cars, and glowing red eyes glaring out from a ruined antebellum plantation house ..
Robert E Howard meets Deliverance..
Anyway where ever he materialised from( and thats one fucking mystery Armstrong's more than welcome to) hes presented some clearly thought out logical argument...further elucidating the photographic anomalies.only fucking joking!!
Hes raving on about more magical alterations .
I swear to Armstrong he should forget about the assassination and concentrate on marketing whatever it is he smokes/ sniffs/ inserts/ ingests before an evenings romp
through the photo records of Dealey Plaza..hed make a fortune.
Lastly Fezzo has returned with this little gem
" We've already proved the teeth are different"
Do tell my little fez wearing chum . ...enlighten us all.. what pray tell have you proved? And more importantly how exactly did you go about proving it?
A reputable forensic dentist or two?
Or let me guess .the bumbling incompetent buffoonery of a porcine snouted wannabe cowgirl in a 13 inch hat?

H&L
RIP

alex wrote:Doc Norwood has just paid another fleeting visit; probably on his way to the etiquette class he teaches on Friday nights Displaying the mental dexterity that befits an ex chairman of the OIC his " argument" basically amounts to-" we're right and you're wrong"

Exhilarating display of clear thinking from the doppelgangers!!

You are under-estimating just how clever the response from the Doc was.

So let's look at it again.

Doc Norwood wrote:You have been asked a question about why the Warren Commission skated around the issue of Oswald's education in the academic year 1954, and no response has been forthcoming.

The reason why this question is important is that Warren Commissioner Allen Dulles insisted on a lengthy biographical overview of Oswald as part of the 888-page final report.  Here is the pertinent information that the Commission included about this portion of Oswald's life:

"Oswald's inability or lack of desire to enter into meaningful relationships with other people continued during this period in New Orleans (1954-56).  It probably contributed greatly to the general dissatisfaction which he exhibited with his environment, a dissatisfaction which seemed to find expression at this particular point in his intense desire to join the Marines and get away from his surroundings and his mother." (384-85)

In this passage, the report locates Oswald's in 1954-56 in New Orleans.  But if it turns out that he attended school in Fort Worth during the academic year 1954-55, there is yet another gaping hole in the Warren Commission's biography of Oswald.  After identifying Oswald's whereabouts in 1954-56, the Warren Report narrative neatly passes on to Oswald enlisting and serving in the Marines, bypassing the precise time frame we are discussing in this thread.

So what the good Doc is saying is that the WC/FBI skipped looking at the molecular structure of the New Orleans brick in order to avoid the Brick wall that Kudlaty the Unbelievable helped make disappear -- until he shot his big mouth off to Monsignor Juan Hamstrung of Inquisitions, Inc. 

And here I was thinking that the best way to prove Oswald was in New Orleans during 1954 - 56 was to make sure that brick got front and center stage. Those idiots at the FBI. Can they get nothing right? 

Well done, Doc! Only a true genius could put forth the proposition that hiding evidence of residence in New Orleans was the best way to prove residence in New Orleans and not Fort Worth!

Lets just face it Greg we're dealing with bona fide geniuses here.
Fuck quantum mechanics and all that hippy string theory bullshit..
I smell a Nobel prize or two in the not too distant future ( alternatively it could be Moctezumas revenge wafting down from some survivalist compound deep in the Kentucky badlands.. the pungent gusts of Butlers breath drifting across the Atlantic..raw skunk with pressed racoon compote is particularly noxious)
The H and L gang seem to operate on this quite unique  principal, namely; the more unsound the individual bricks are the stronger the overall structure is.
They disguise the sheer illogicality of it all behind sanctimonious bluster.
As soon as one rabbit hole gets the Caddyshack treatment another is quickly dug..
Stripling High? Who mentioned Stripling High.. don't waste our time with mere trivia..
It's Beauregard that really matters..
And now Fezzo dredges up some census..
Is he trying to say Nancy Lee Oswald was yet another doppelganger?
It's almost getting to the point where anyone named Oswald, in the continental United States between 1947 and 1963 was a potential Oswald doppelganger .
They're rummaging through 60/70 year old school/ state/ census/ utility records looking for any fucking anomaly.
This game of pin the tail on the HARVEY is designed to keep us mired in pointless minutae...
They're asking us to believe that in 1947 an unprecedented, mindbogglingly complex doppelganger project was planned. Complete with fake mom's, two non related boys who miraculously grew up looking practically identical. A project that lasted over a decade and stretched from New Orleans to Atsugi Japan.
Think of the logistics. The cost, the planning.
And for what? Remember HARVEY wasn't meant to infiltrate the Soviet Union.
The whole native speaker angle is a red herring. This wasn't an illegal operation. Harvey, pardon me HARVEY didn't have to blend in. Like the other 15 Americans who detected around this time. He was meant to be a disaffected American!!
An Eastern European orphan would be the last fucking person on earth youdy want to try and impersonate an American marine.
The real historical Lee Harvey Oswald was a perfect candidate.
I guess thats why he was chosen
In my opinion it was something Armstrong rustled up at the last moment; to give the zany doppelganger scheme a purpose.
The more I think about it the more ridiculous it sounds 
Why would you have to spend a whole decade, all that effort, all that meticulous choreography, shuttling a fake mom and doppelganger round America. Even having both doppelgangers attend the same fucking schools!!
It really is the script for a slapstick comedy movie!!
The importance of being HARVEY!! Indeed...
Just imagine poor Ed Voebel, saying goodbye to his bullnecked all American pal.. watching him dissappear into the New Orleans twilight only to turn round and see HARVEY slouching incongruously out of Miss DaRouses homeroom..
" Oh hi Lee..'( quick double take)" say didn't I just watch you get on the school bus?"
Harvey and Lee is a beguiling glimpse into an alternative TV future..
What might have happened if Rod Serling wrote for National Lampoon's"
Just read the fucking posts. The sheer arrogance on display.
I haven't read much of Mr Stevens work but he certainly seems focused and well informed; someone who respects facts rather than slavish adheranad to a dogma 
RC-D and Jeremy B are quite simply two of the finest minds in this atrophied desert wasteland.
For Fezzo and Norwood to dismiss them with such high handed contempt makes them look even more foolish.
I'm starting to really think H and L is a full blown cult.
All joking aside.
The cultists lack even a modicum of self awareness. They exhibit zero critical thinking skills and are into the minuses when it comes to historical perspective.
Unless viewed through the myopic Armstrong centric prism.
Everything's fake that they need to be fake. They don't need to answer any questions.
They just KNOW..Once Beauregard has gone the way of Stripling we'll be told, as abrasively and as condescendingly as possible that Beauregard doesn't matter .
The missing teeth is the REAL issue ..then it'll be Ping Tung, San Sabba..
Every single anomaly has a perfectly rational real world solution.
We're meant to suspend disbelief and accept all these supposed anomalies have only one possible explanation-
A mythical Hungarian doppelganger, son of  Emil Gardos and Amelia fucking Earheart.
Its their attitude as much as the bullshit they shovel.
Only a fool or a man in a fez speaks with such certainty about such an uncertain subject. And those goddamn fucking emoticons!! 
Mark, Jeremy, Robert, Greg and others; you know you have my respect. You know how much I admire your guts, tenacity and your strict adherence to purely factual scenarios; eschewing the make believe willing the wisp illogic that characterizes the Doppelgang. But in my humble opinion your making a tactical error letting Baggins and Fezzo drag you back into their untamed doppelganger maze.
I totally understand why you do it and as I say I have complete respect for your motives. In my opinion the crazy central premise and the mastoidectomy should be hammered home. Nothing else matters..
It's like those interminable arguments about the Mannlicher Carcano!! A pointless distraction. 
Charlatans and snake oil touts need to be unmasked. The damage that they do is perfectly encapsulated by the latest opinion polls.
Slowly but surely the gap is narrowing. Turned off more by 50 plus years of fantasy and bitter internecine bickering than by 50 plus years of official obfuscation and denial more and more people are starting to believe Oswald was indeed the lone gunman. Especially the under 30s Perhaps it's it's partly generational, but the arguments reeking of post Watergate paranoia, and influenced more by the bong than by Bing just aren't resonating with the millennials.
Their skepticism is either universal or its neutered by drone like consumer apathy. If the assassination isn't going to be considered as ancient history, a museum piece ; with poor old Lee's face gazing sadly out of an exhibit, alongside Guiteau, Czolgcosz and John Wilkes Booth we need to reclaim it's relevance from the H and L gang and Captain James T Caddy of the USS Paranoia
We need to start fighting fire with fire; not pretty day too sparklers, or damp squibs in pretty boxes.
We need to stop relying on wide eyed fables" honestly the gub'mint faked everything.. except these documents. The gub'mint obviously didn't fake those... because they mention HARVEY Lee Oswald."
Fuck everyone who isn't getting behind Prayerman. Sure there's always the chance that it isn't Oswald. But it's a risk worth taking.
Those few frames are perfect for a GIF. Simple elegant visual proof.
Let the picture speak to the heart; then let the 1000 words speak to the brain 
Prayerman could be the Z film for the 21st century. OK the Z film maybe more dramatic but it still leaves the question of Oswald's guilt open.
Prayerman eliminates all doubt. 
No more fucking about with fakery and similar bullshit.
Oswald didn't do it .You've been lied to all your young lifes; just as your parents and grandparents were lied to...
Let's stick with what can be proven. Dull mundane facts without the Hollywood fairy dust of spy twins sperm experiments, teenage Marie Curies cum Messalina's, remorseful teenage mafia hitmen and Avatar on Main Street filmed with state of the art undetectable today special effects..
Fezzo is a graduate of the Jack White school of research.
Clinging to an out of date paradigm that's starting to look increasingly out dated 
Like a silent movie star trying to transition into the talkies..
H and L belongs to the past. The everything is fake except for what I need to be genuine  school of " research" is quite frankly embarrassing now.
Some of Fezzos other work is actually quite impressive. He obviously got hypnotised by the whole fucking doppelganger idea..
Their air of self satisfied smugness reminds me of a French general in June 1940..
" Have another glass of cognac Mon Ami! That cannot possibly be the sound of German tanks in the distance!!
The Boche are too dumb and unimaginative!! We are safe here in the Ardennes!"

The two Oswald theory is not even an Armstrong original. Way back in the 60's Richard Popkin wrote a book titled The Second Oswald. He was the first one to come out with such a theory. If anybody here is interested I could post some excerpts from his book tomorrow.

Vinny wrote:The two Oswald theory is not even an Armstrong original. Way back in the 60's Richard Popkin wrote a book titled The Second Oswald. He was the first one to come out with such a theory. If anybody here is interested I could post some excerpts from his book tomorrow.

NO Vinny,

I think I want to puke. I'd rather have lit bamboo sticks jammed under my fingernails.

All right, Mick.

Vinny wrote:All right, Mick.

Hey Vinny I was only joking mate, post away.