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PROFESSOR SANFORD Q LARSEN ( Orthopaedic Surgeon/ Photo Analyst and Engineer) WILL SEE YOU NOW, EVEN IF YOU ARE AN IDEOLOGUE

Note to Greg and the other moderators: please feel free to move this thread to the Humour and Satire section...

Aside from his onerous Administration duties our polygamous polymath savant chum has obviously been busy, branching out into orthopaedics. 

Diagnosing the " fake Billy Lovelady "( non midget variety) with a spinal condition. 

Apparently,  as well as drawing a plaid design to disguise Carl Jones ' outstretched arm ( WHY? WHY ? WHY?  In what sort of outre uber conspiratorial alternate dimension would this particular alteration ever possibly be considered? Conspirator #1 " Hmmm , the limo still  looks like it's slowing down,  what else can we do?" Conspirator #2 " Eh, howsabout drawing some fancy plaid patterns to hide this black guy's arm, think of the aesthetics,  Joe") these crack alterationists were able to rustle themselves up a prototype " crisis actor " , a fake albeit spinally challenged Billy Lovelady,  to lounge around in front of the TSBD...

At a few moments notice? 

Maybe there was a pack of CIA trained tame Skinwalkers loping around,  or maybe the Very Reverend Gilbride was right. Well sorta. There was in fact a flying saucer hovering over the Plaza,  ready to transmat lookalikes down,  when and if the occasion arose( or if the android Joe Molina went berserk and started stuffing his walkie talkie into his own arsehole ( exhaust duct))

Or was Honest Joe's Pawnbrokers truck really stuffed full of off the shelf doppelgangers?  Ready for any unforeseen eventuality? Ready to disgorge a brace of bullish Buell Fraziers, a gaggle  of gigantically gregarious Gloria Calverys  or a veritable Aladdin's Cave of " tramps" at a moment's notice 

Why not? Once you reject reason and fully embrace the warped " Prove to me it WASN'T ", illogic of full blown conspiracism,  the only limitations are the individual conspiracists imagination 

Here we have the " Administrator " of a self described " Education Forum " posting crosseyed gobbledegook,  based solely on his own bizarre interpretations of 60 year old photos,  rambling on about painted plaid, fake Loveladys etc, more ridiculous claims of alteration.

And he has the downright audacity to chide Jonathan? One of the few remaining sane voices. 

On this occasion I have to agree with our chum Brian,  the venerable Professor's latest foray into the highly dubious world of " alterationism "- not forgetting his self credentialed Orthopaedic skills- once again threatens to make all " conspiracy theorists " look like complete fucking loons. 

Here's an interesting metaphysical conundrum for our cranially enhanced chums to get their enlarged cerebellar cells round,  " How many times must you flay a dead horse before you realise you can't make a living out of dust?"

Or , to put it more pithily,  in unicornese,  " I'll show you an uncredible booby in a hoof full of dust "

Ive got a theory it was actually Otto Skorzeny standing outside the Depository,  firing ice tipped bolts from a special MK NAOMI designed crossbow. The boys in the mobile photo alteration truck hurriedly " Carl Jones ified" him, painting over the crossbow with the  magic plaid paint Angleton got from his pixie contact...

Utter fucking brain rotting bilge...

60 years down the line and here we are...no fucking wonder there's been a renaissance of lone nutism. Long ago , long after Warren Report criticism morphed into the semi religious cult of High Conspiracism,  the exact purpose grew fuzzy and indistinct,  almost as fuzzy as Fezzos crayon and felt tip pen nude portrait of " A Recumbent Ma Butler " ,  and perhaps crucially ( fatally?) a considerable proportion of researchers began mistaking their own particular truths for THE truth. 

Viewing Kennedy's life and death through a spurious,  often wholly distorting prism .

Or worse yet, try to infect his presidency and his assassination with the curse of presentism. 

This kind of gibbering nonsense affects us all. It lowers the whole tone and threatens to drag " debate " back down into the toxic swamp of the OIC and the Juddufkists

The Landis Bullet

I have lived most of my life with a tunnel-vision view of the events of November 22, 1963. We, the agents who were there, wrote reports, but we did not talk about our experiences with one another. Only in recent years did I learn that my roommate Special Agent Dick Johnsen had been given the recovered bullet I found by the director of security for Parkland Hospital. In the aftermath of events, one gurney (presumed to be Connally’s) was taken from an elevator and another was already in the elevator lobby when the bullet was discovered by a hospital employee, Darrell Tomlinson. When Tomlinson moved the gurney already in the lobby against the wall, the bullet emerged from under the mat. Tomlinson gave the bullet to the security director, who gave it to Dick. 

Dick mentions this in his report to the Warren Commission, but at the time we never spoke about the events of November 22, and I didn’t read his report until I began writing this book. Over the past twenty years, I have been contacted on more than one occasion as anniversaries of the assassination approached, or about the Warren Commission’s work, but I had little interest in talking about the events of November 22 from my own perspective.

In 2007 Jerry Blaine contacted me regarding a book he intended to write called The Kennedy Detail. I had no interest in participating and forgot about it. A couple of years later Jerry contacted me again. He brought me up to date and told me that Clint Hill was editing his book for accuracy. Last chance. I trusted Clint, and I agreed to participate. Jerry’s coauthor, Lisa McCubbin, contacted me, and we did telephone interviews.

After the publication of Jerry and Lisa’s book in 2010, the Discovery Channel produced a documentary about The Kennedy Detail. I participated and openly shared my painful inner feelings. That’s when I discovered, for the first time, that I was not alone. Clint then collaborated with Lisa McCubbin himself on two books, Mrs. Kennedy and Me (2012) and Five Days in November (2013). I attended presentations for both that they made at the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. (The museum houses the Kennedy limo and the follow-up car in its collection.) During Clint’s presentation for Five Days, he mentioned something about a “missing bullet.” My ears perked up, but I didn’t say anything. I knew nothing about a missing bullet.

By 2013, I was beginning to speak more openly about my Secret Service career, and about President Kennedy’s assassination. Little circumstantial things were happening. It’s as if there was gold dust in the air, and sudden opportunities began to present themselves-opportunities that might have seemed coincidental if it weren’t for the fact that the whole world had opened up. More information was coming out, and more people were interested in revisiting the events of November 22, 1963.

Art Greenberg, a friend from Bally’s gym, worked for WAKR, one of the talk radio stations near my home in northeast Ohio. He asked me if I would do a radio interview as the fiftieth anniversary of JFK’s assassination approached. I agreed. On November 22, 2013, I did an unrehearsed phone interview on WKAR. It was with someone I didn’t know and couldn’t see, and I felt uncomfortable while doing it. One of the people who heard the interview was Lew Merletti.

During the presidency of Bill Clinton, Merletti was the nineteenth director of the United States Secret Service. After retiring from the service in 1999, Merletti accepted a position as senior vice president with the Cleveland Browns-in charge of security, naturally. At the time of my radio interview, Merletti lived in Beachwood, Ohio, just a few miles from my house. He and an attorney friend, Jim Kersey,were having lunch together that day, and Lew was telling Jim about
my interview, which he’d heard while driving to work that morning.

Lew told me later that he turned to Jim and said, “I’ve been in Cleveland all these years and here’s this guy who lives here, too,and we’ve never met. I’ve got to talk to him.” A moment later the world proved even smaller when Kersey replied, “I know him-he bought a house in Chesterland, Ohio, from my sister. I’ll see if I can get his number.”

Merletti called me and we got together. We exchanged war stories and became friends.It was later, in March 2014, when I started to read the book Chief
Lee from the Shaker Heights Police Department had given me, Six Seconds in Dallas. As events recounted in the introduction to this book illustrate, I had not realized until that moment, reading that book, that there was an error in the Warren Commission report.

Though I had not read the Warren Commission report, I knew that there had been a lot of criticisms, and Six Seconds in Dallas author Josiah Thompson was doing his own “micro-study” of the evidence. I was reading along, thinking that his account was fairly accurate to what I saw and remembered, when I came to page 146.

Thompson was describing a “Super Bullet” that, according to the commission, was found on Governor Connally’s stretcher and had caused his wounds. This is where my heart skipped a beat, and I first realized that the Warren Commission’s report was wrong: The “Super Bullet” hadn’t been on Governor Connally’s stretcher in Trauma Room #2. I recognized it as the bullet I had found in the limo and placed next to President Kennedy’s feet in Trauma Room #1.
The day after I started reading Six Seconds in Dallas, I began to make notes. Because the information was sensitive to me and because I wasn’t ready to share it yet, I opened a safe deposit box at a local bank and placed my notes and records inside.

When I finally decided to share my information with Lew Merletti,I knew everything I said would be held in confidence. Merletti’s response to my revelation was immediate, and he encouraged me to tell my story to Ken Gormley, dean of the School of Law at Duquesne University (now the thirteenth president of the university) and the author of The Death of American Virtue: Clinton vs. Starr. Gormley had interviewed Merletti during the Monica Lewinsky scandal that led to President Clinton’s impeachment. Merletti trusted Gormley. I repeated my story to Gormley, and he agreed with Merletti: “You have a story here that needs to be told.”

This is the story I kept buried-even from myself-for more than fifty years. For five decades I couldn’t bring myself to review the events of November 22, 1963, in detail. Everyone but me seemed to have read the Warren Commission report. I just accepted that whatever conclusions the commission had drawn had to be accurate and true.

In this book I have shared what I saw, what I did, and only what I know to be factual about that fateful November weekend. As soon as I completed writing my story and typed “The End,” tears started rolling down my cheeks for no apparent reason. I just sat staring at my computer as the tears flowed uncontrollably, dripping off of my chin for the next ten minutes. I just couldn’t stop crying. It was as if the safety valve on a pressure cooker had finally burst open, releasing all the suppressed feelings and emotions that I had kept buried for so long.
This is my story.

Brian's Wasteland. For Brian Doyle il miglior fabbro trollem

Thanks Vinny. 

However,  I have my suspicions his alleged " Admin" status may well be a quaint  13 inch headed  aphorism for " confined to a renovated parsonage outside Stoke Newington",  where he is guarded,  round the  clock, by crack OIC approved researcher Pete " Beau Brummell " Mellor ( I don't know about you folks but having this particular specimen of , eh, specimen : lank  greasy hair and gornless goggle eyes all agog,  staring vacantly, as he gawps in through the mullioned mock Tudor window at me would have me poor old knitting needles trembling....

I'm sure I remember seeing Pete,  strutting his stuff in some of Hammer Films most infamous shlockfests,  back in the 70s: as " Ant Creature #1' bursting out of Ingrid Pitt's heaving bosom in " Dracula and the Curse of the Lesbian Vampire Lovers ", " Giant plague infested pustule" in Samuel Pepys- Peeping Tom- a carefree romp through plague ravaged Restoration London " and,  most notably as the eponymous boil in " the Boil on Satan's Ballsack " ( a co production with Larry Flynt) One of Hammer's more obscure offerings,  memorably described as the " Best Evidence of Exploitation Horror" The almost cosmically miscast Frankie Howerd stars as the Very Reverend Liberace " Dickie " Gilbride,  freewheeling arch lothario and pioneering erotic demonologist ( apparently Flynts attempt to Hustlerify  Van Helsing,  " no one's gonna buy some withered old kraut running around banging vampire broads ")Dickie is caught in a titanic struggle for the immortal soul of suburban housewife turned shapeshifter with his nemesis,  Roy " Tantalus " Truly,  Dallas necromancer and Magus Imperator of the dreaded Harlandale Street coven,  and his sidekick/ familiar, Bill Shelley,  by day a mild mannered warehouse supervisor and dog breeder, but by night,  when not out intel spooking for the uber secretive SOG, he's a powerful sorcerer and regional Dungeons and Dragons champion...

Rumour has it he's got a couple of cameos , " Piss pot #3" and " Erik the Red's herpes scab" in OIC auteur,  Ralph Cinque's long anticipated reimagining of the" Saga of Leif Erikson ",  set in the carpark of a seedy semi legal Texas " health spa"....

Talking about the undead, the fragrant Ms O Hara is back,  trying desperately to resurrect the lifeless shell known as " Coup in Dallas " , her cast of putative conspirators is ballooning faster than Stevie Gaals gut, after he discovered helium filled quintuple cheese and cholesterol burgers,  simply being alive in 1963 is reason enough to suspect some sort of involvement in Project Lancelot.....

Brian,  don't you ever get tired of winning all the time? Doesn't it get a tad boring? Smoking a never ending succession of trolls,  noodnicks,  degenerate British bastards and uncredible scofflaws not fit to touch the hem of your intellectual robe?

Yes, we all know you are THE Rock and Roll Marshall,  we tremble in awe before your " best detective mind " , genuflecting before the sheer majesty of your skilled credible evidence...

James Gordon,  Mark Knight,  Lauren, Stinky Mac, Lemkin-the 7 tentacled Octopus of troof,  Professor Larsen,  Greg, Barto, Stan, Steely,  my own humble creative trolling miscreant self , oh yes and Charles Blackmon and Gil too need to be properly sued,  held legally accountable and banished to serve as geisha trolls in a walrus brothel in deepest Antarctica ( known as Chez Fletch) for denying the sanctity and righteousness of your correct evidence...

How about mixing it up a little? Get the Very Reverend Gilbride to try on your zen sandals,  roll him a 9 skin rocketship,   Sanibel Gold dipped in PCP, and crank up Electric Ladyland,  while you can shave off your unicorns horn,  cut off the ponytail,  slip into the good Reverend's vestments ( after a thorough delousing and deep industrial cleaning) and go out spreading the word of the LORD ( as revealed to the Prophet Dick in fit of turpentine fuelled ecstasy,  in a back alleyway behind the Hustler superstore) to your fellow Sanibelites. 

" And lo! , it doth come to pass,  as Dick, filled with 95% proof ethanol,  nail polish remover and lustfulness,  was hoveringeth outside the Sorority house of the Sanibel Fillies at 4am in the morning,  contemplating much wickedness,  cracking open a 6th bottle of pure ethanol and breaking in through the air conditioning ducts before climbing up the elevator shaft to the 5th floor dormitory ( as LEE had descended from the 6th floor in his mystical vision,  recorded verbatim in Well Swung,  the Elevatory Revelations of St Dickie the Unread) he was moved by the voice of the LORD. " Pull up thy zip oh degenerate one! And banish all thoughts of Glug Glugging from thy addled mind,  go back to thy stable! But waketh not thy ox or thy ass,  divesteth thyself of thy overalls,  staineth as they are with countless wriggly seeds spilleth in thy ethanol soaked depravity.  Adorn thyself with the vestments of the LORD and thee shall be visited by an angel who will dictate the descent of the sponsors in the fiery wheel and the final testament of HARVEY "

Here's a REALLY novel idea,   Oh my  Rock and Roll Marshall and my Cap'n Bly,  why not limit thy saintly discourse to what can actually be proven? And,  why not think about producing some of this proof, in the form of links etc?

" Brian's trolling only emphasises my victory,  he couldn't disprove my theory that Sarah Stanton was actually a skinwalker who miraculously changed shape in the doorway. Nor did he disprove the obvious fact that Billy Lovelady had a turnip on his head while BWF had a carrot for a nose, a carrot he later handed to Gloria Calvery,  saying " What's up Doc?" The best skilled analysis of the footage confirms this, just as any credible photo analyst will confirm the obvious tiny face of a pre R2 D2 Kenny Baker Davidson's enhancement shows, peeking out from beneath Prayerwoman's scoop necked dress "

See how easy it is to come up with uncorroborated assertions? 

And both our scenarios: " The Pervy Droid/ Scoop Necked Dress theory" and " The White Hair turns Dark Theory " are supported by exactly the same amount of evidence 

Fuck all. 

" Prove white hair shows up white" Brian,  ive reached the conclusion you haven't an honourable fibre in your being, at least when it comes to your " research " You'll wriggle,  squirm,  invent claims,  put words into people's mouths, prevaricate,  pontificate,  lodge appeals to imaginary authorities,  gaslight,  light your gas, fantasise and flat out lie. 

As long as you have enough breath left to emit a despairing wheeze of triumph,  " I win"

Have you ever heard of Pyrrhus of Epicurus? Who gave his name to the concept of Pyrrhic victory? I think the JFK internet may well have produced a sequel- the Pyrrhic/ Doyleian Defeat. 

A defeat so catastrophic it appears like victory,  at least to the Sanibel Gold ravaged perceptions of the defeated 

Anyway,  all this talk of victory and defeat should be anathema,  at least it should be. Theoretically we should be trying to broaden our minds: our knowledge and understanding,  individually and collectively.  Rather than trying to demean everyone and everything,  trying to squeeze perception into some utterly fucking meaningless binary. 

Worse still: an imaginary binary.

Anyone who hasn't died from boredom or succumbed to narcoleptic delirium,  can look through this thread. I made no claims,  I am not required to make any claims,  much less the spurious nonsensical claim you tried to foist upon me, and,  most importantly of all Brian,  I am under no obligation to DISprove the claim you have repeatedly failed to come anywhere remotely near proving. 

Sarah Stanton HAD white/ grey hair,  that's a fact,  by Armstrong's toupee of troof,  you can even see it in the Owen's footage. You , rather  a rationally minded person,  not trying to resuscitate a defunct fantasy  " theory" would  naturally expect a white haired woman would show up as a white haired woman in a photograph,  or in film footage. It's up to YOU to prove otherwise. 

Asking me to bear the burden of proof doesn't magically shift the burden. YOU claimed it was " common knowledge ' I merely asked for some sort of proof. 

The resultant farce was your attempt to divert the focus,  to make it look like I was in some way fallaciously negligent,  while you,  who had made the claim and who had proceeded to offer zero supporting evidence,  except a repetition of the original feeble and unconvincing assertion,  emerge as some sort of bastion of logic 

Saying that,  I DID actually give you my OPINION: Mrs Stanton either went inside " immediately " as per her statement,  or else she was filmed/ photographed standing in the group,  to the left of the TSBD doorway,  where, for what it's worth,  BWF has always placed her. 

Why did you choose to overlook this?

Just as in your OPINION her hairline,  shape, size, gender,  clothing and hair colour were mysteriously altered 

Your dishonesty,  disingenuousness and basic lack of honour and respect are frankly,  shocking. 

Your self celebrated " correct evidence " consists of foul mouthed diatribes,  intermingled with puerile boasting and,  occasionally,  a semi literate sentence or two, regurgitating your unproven long debunked bullshit assertions. 

You're damn tooting Brian,  I'm no peer of yours. Armstrong knows I have too many flaws to properly enumerate and my ignorance is as deep as the oceans of infinity surrounding us are wide, but if I thought I was the peer of an emotionally incontinent fabulist with a severely limited intellect, with no manners,  class , self respect , integrity or grace,  a habitual liar seemingly hellbent on befouling the study of this case , merely to satiate his infantile gripes and delusions,  I'd probably go into voluntary exile,  working as knitting needle sharpener in ordinary to the deposed Administrator of the Democratic People's Republic of the 13 Inch Headed...

Anything you don't have the wit, intelligence or life experience to appreciate or understand you dismiss as " trolling " 

The way you speak to Greg, one of the most respected researchers out there ( even those who decry his " profanity " are forced to recognise his ability) is disgraceful. 

Barto too.

I apologised,  quite sincerely, to  you Brian,  for stepping out of line.  No doubt ive done so again. Using your transgressions to justify my own is unforgivable. Despite my often less than serious tone and the unwarranted remarks,  despite having my tongue in my cheek more than half the time,  I was serious Brian. 

About trying to start some sort of discussion,  especially regarding your claims about Mrs Stanton's hair. Despite sounding outlandish,  I went out of my way to check out the possibility. Despite what you continuously insinuate we are not just a tribe of bobble headed trolls ( I find your claim, that I and others are acting " under orders" to ignore and/ or vilify you and the Very Reverend Gilbride particularly offensive)  marching in lockstep,  while slurping down kool aid,  as we head towards the doorway of some magical Prayerman shaped flying saucer 

Ive wasted WAY too much time on this guff....on this fucking post too...

It's not James Gordon, Mark Knight,  Greg,  Barto or some mind kontrolled army of zombie Prayerman droogs you have to blame,  it's yourself ( and Gilbride) your aggressive obnoxious,  occasionally downright boorish behaviour,  stomping around threads like a jack booted thug,  tossing out racist insults,  misogynistic barbs , abusing all and sundry while making demands like a spoilt toddler,  but most of all it's the utter fucking paucity of your " argument "

In a " community " where claims of magical doppelgangers,  UFO complicity,  Zionist Jackie and her Derringer,  Bill Greer- sharpshooter,  mass loveladyfication,  midget FBI agents in toupees,  fat Nazis,  dead Nazis,  Zionist cabals on Main Street , ice bullets,  Bruce Forsyth sticking his head out of the storm drain, " Didn't he do well?" Body snatching surgeons hidden in papier mache trees etc etc, have all, at one time or another attracted varying degrees of support from the indiscriminate gullible mass, no one, bar Tom, Dick and Larrytrotter have been persuaded by your tale of interstitial spook shapeshifting 

Prayerman looks more like ET, or the creature from the black ( or should this be grey?) lagoon than Sarah Stanton 

Shout, scream,  stamp your dainty pink sandaled feet as much as you want,  nothing us gonna change that...

Or, as the Very Reverend Gilbride likes to say " The Power of Peer Review compels you"

The Landis Bullet

When the president’s body had been placed on the examination table, it had made a small wrinkle in the cotton blanket by the president’s feet. Because of this, I was able to reposition the bullet to prevent it from rolling again. With all the confusion going on in the room, no one had even noticed what I had done. Whew, that was close, I thought. The last thing I wanted was for that bullet to get lost. I felt relief. I was certain at the time that I had made the correct
decision. I had saved an important piece of evidence, and I had placed it where it belonged, with the president’s body. It would be found and prove to be helpful. I felt like a heavy burden had been lifted from my shoulders.

I turned, looking for Mrs. Kennedy. All those people who previously couldn’t wait to enter Trauma Room #1 were now pushing and shoving trying to make a hasty exit. Only now, the empty gurney by the entrance was making exiting more difficult. I was finally able to move, and I stepped to the side and stood between Mrs. Kennedy and the doorway until most of the people left the room.

When Mrs. Kennedy was ready to leave, I was at her side. Our time in Trauma Room #1 had been brief, probably no more than a minute, but for me it felt like an eternity. As we were leaving the trauma room, Mrs. Kennedy stopped and hesitated in the doorway. I continued around and past her and was asking someone to find a chair for her when, at the same time, someone else was already arriving with a chair. Clearly other people had the same thought.

Mrs. Kennedy came out and the door closed. Now weary looking, she sat down on the chair that had been provided. Several people were still milling around the area, and with the help of a nurse, I was able to clear most of them away. I finally spotted Clint. He had been running along beside the right side of the gurney while we raced through the emergency room lobby, but I had lost track of him when we entered the trauma room.I’m guessing that he had either been blocked out by the crowd or left the trauma room before I had a chance to see him. Either way, he and ASAIC Kellerman were talking to each other in a hallway located to my left. Clint was wearing a suit coat jacket. It never dawned on me that his own jacket was still in Trauma Room #1, covered in
blood. Where had this one come from?

I headed over to talk to them when the trauma door flew open and someone rushed out asking if anyone knew the president’s blood type. Kellerman and Clint simultaneously reached for their wallets, but Kellerman beat Clint to the draw and came up with the information first. “O. Rh positive” was his reply. That was something I never knew, and realized I’d better learn Mrs. Kennedy’s blood type,just in case.

Clint was busy doing everything possible to assist ASAIC Kellerman. The two of them had access to a vacant doctor’s office near the trauma room. The office had a telephone, and they already had an open line connected directly to the White House switchboard. Clint moved into the office, and I followed him. I only had a brief moment to tell him where I would be before returning to Mrs. Kennedy’s side.

Then a different person came out of Trauma Room #1 and said that the president was still breathing. Mrs. Kennedy stood up and asked, “Do you mean he still may be alive?” but she sat down again when no one answered. I was already resigned to the fact that the president had probably died the instant the third shot hit him in the head. If it had been anyone other than the president’s life on the line, they probably would have declared him dead on arrival when we first got to the hospital.

Then Vice President Johnson was whisked by, bent over and shielded by several detail agents. They were really moving, and I had no idea where they were taking him. They all disappeared down the same hallway where Kellerman and Clint had been standing. I returned my focus to Mrs. Kennedy. Several people were still hanging around, so I commandeered a doctor to help clear the area. After that, I grabbed an empty chair and took a two o’clock position
about ten or fifteen feet in front of Mrs. Kennedy. This gave her some private space, plus my position also provided a better observation point for the emergency room and the surroundings.

Glancing at Mrs. Kennedy, I thought she looked quite regal, sitting on her chair, back straight and hands folded in her lap, but her face was expressionless. There were no tears in her eyes, just a blank and distant look, like she wasn’t even there. What thoughts had to be going through her mind, I wondered.
I knew nothing about shock or how to recognize its symptoms, but if I were to guess, I would say that Mrs. Kennedy had to be in shock.

At the time, I was not concerned about any outside harm coming to Mrs. Kennedy. I knew that she was relatively safe where we were inside Parkland Memorial Hospital. I just wanted to keep people from crowding around and bothering her and allow her some space. My main concern was me. I was fighting my own battle. I couldn’t get the head shot that I had witnessed out of my mind. It kept repeating itself over and over like a looping newsreel clip. I struggled to keep from falling apart and passing out. Several times I nearly broke down.

Come on, Paul, I kept urging myself. Be strong. Hang in there. Don’t break down now. Don’t be an embarrassment. Think about Mrs. Kennedy and her safety. You have a job to do. Somehow, all these thoughts managed to help me hang in there. Mrs. Kennedy reentered the trauma room a couple of times, but
only for a brief moment each time. At one point, she stood up and walked across the emergency room to a curtained area and stood by a table staring at the wall. I approached her and asked if there was anything I could do. She just shook her head no, so I retreated, leaving her to her thoughts. Vice President Johnson’s wife, Lady Bird, appeared at one point and talked to Mrs. Kennedy while she was sitting by the trauma room door.

It was confusing and there was a lot going on, and a lot of the details I just don’t remember. I don’t recall the priests arriving to administer the last rites; however, I do remember the big discussion that followed. I had returned to the hallway, and everyone was expressing a different opinion as to what time to declare as the “official time of death.” There were logistics that had to be considered, both political and religious. The time of the priests’ arrival, the reading of the last rites, what to tell the press, what to tell the public-all sorts of details had to be put into proper sequence. It had to appear that there had been a valid attempt to save the president, but without success. The official time of death was finally agreed upon-1:00 PM central standard time. If they had asked me, I would have replied, “12:30 PM, in Dealey Plaza.”

Also, at that time, no one knew who was behind the assassination, and it was decided that the best thing to do was to get Vice President Johnson back to Washington and the White House as soon as possible. That was fine with the vice president, but he was determined to have Mrs. Kennedy return to Washington with him. However, Mrs. Kennedy was equally as determined not to return to Washington or even leave the hospital without her husband’s body.
The Dallas County medical examiner, who had arrived on the scene earlier, intervened, telling everyone that they were not allowed to leave the hospital with the president’s body until an autopsy had been performed. At the time this was a state law in Texas. There had been no autopsy performed, only a desperate attempt to save the president’s life.

According to Clint, in his book Mrs. Kennedy and Me, at some point after we arrived at Parkland, Ken O’Donnell, the president’s friend and chief adviser, had instructed him to order a casket. Clint called a local establishment-O’Neal’s Funeral Home. Subsequently, an all-bronze casket was delivered and taken directly into Trauma Room #1.

So while the president’s body was being prepared for removal, an argument ensued in the hallway outside of the trauma room entrance. Texas authorities wanted the president’s body to remain in Texas. He was the victim of a homicide, and there had to be an autopsy. White House staff and Secret Service personnel were equally insistent in their argument: This was the body of a president of the United States, and thus an exception to the Texas rule. The
autopsy would be performed in Washington at Bethesda Naval Hospital.Clint and I stood by listening as the discussion became heated.

Tempers were starting to flare, and I thought that a major altercation was going to escalate into something worse. The trauma room door opened, and a casket on top of a gurney appeared in the doorway. Secret Service agents who were in the area immediately stepped to its side and took command.
I don’t remember any concessions being made or how the argument was finally settled, or if it actually was. All I remember is that Mrs. Kennedy had rejoined the group, and I followed Clint and the casket alongside Mrs. Kennedy as we headed down the hallway to an emergency room exit, different from the one we had used when we first arrived. Texas state law be damned, the president’s body was returning to Washington with us.

The white Cadillac hearse that had earlier delivered the empty casket from O’Neal’s Funeral Home was outside and waiting, and the same casket, now containing the body of the president, was placed inside the rear compartment. The president’s physician, Admiral George Burkley, who accompanied the president on all his trips, Mrs. Kennedy, and Clint wedged themselves into the rear compartment with the casket. ATSAIC Stout and ASAIC Kellerman
climbed into the front seat beside SA Andy Berger, who was sitting behind the steering wheel. I jumped into an official car being driven by SA Greer. We were directly behind the ambulance, and at 2:04 PM central standard time, we departed Parkland Memorial Hospital for the ten-minute ride to Love Field.

About a half an hour earlier, at 1:35 PM, agents had whisked Vice President and Mrs. Johnson away from Parkland Memorial Hospital in two unmarked cars. They took them to Love Field, where they waited on board AF 26000 for Mrs. Kennedy’s arrival. When we arrived, SA Berger parked the hearse near the boarding ramp located at the rear of the plane. While agents carried the heavy bronze casket up the ramp, I stood at the bottom with Mrs. Kennedy,
and the two of us watched as the agents struggled, trying to fit the casket through the airplane door. Once the casket was finally on board, Mrs. Kennedy climbed the steps and I followed.

When I reached the top, I headed directly to the passenger area located in the front section of the aircraft. ASAIC Kellerman was standing in the first row of seats on the right. His back was against the bulkhead that separated the cockpit and steward’s area from the rest of the plane. An air force steward was in the aisle behind him,  filling empty glasses with ice at a service station. Kellerman beckoned me to come forward. I slid into the second row of seats
facing him and collapsed in the seat next to the window. As soon as my rear end hit the cushion, I turned my face toward the window and began to cry.

At first, I was embarrassed, breaking down in front of everyone, but I couldn’t help it. The sobs came and the tears flowed. Some tough guy you are, I thought, but I didn’t care. I had come so close to breaking down earlier that I was just thankful that I had been able to hold my emotions together until now. I stared out the window, lost in thoughts about Mrs. Kennedy and her now fatherless children, Caroline and John Jr., and I wondered what the future held for them.

All the time, visions of President Kennedy’s head exploding replayed over and over, again and again. I just couldn’t shake them. I became aware of someone in the seat next to me and turned to  see SA Bennett. How ironic, I thought. Here we are, seated side by side, just like on our way to the hospital. Only this time, he wasn’t holding his Colt .38 Special, he was holding a pen. He was writing notes regarding the events of the past few hours into his pocketsized
memorandum book, the one each of us carried to keep track of our daily activities. He’s doing what I should be doing. He’s doing what any good agent should be doing. I turned away and continued to look out the window for the next half hour, completely oblivious to what else was happening elsewhere on the plane. I can write my notes later.

I was aware that we were still sitting on the ground, but I was not aware of the reason. We were waiting for a federal judge to arrive and swear in Vice President Johnson as our next president. When the judge arrived, I was still looking out the airplane window, deep in my own sorrow and thoughts.
ASAIC Kellerman gently shook me by the shoulder to get my attention. He said, “C’mon, Paul, you’ve got to witness this. Vice President Johnson is going to be sworn in as president. This is history in the making.”

I couldn’t have cared less. I’d already witnessed enough firsthand history that day. I continued staring out the window. Kellerman persisted, and I eventually got out of my seat, and we walked toward the rear of the plane to the bulkhead. SA Lem Johns and ASAIC Kellerman filled the bulkhead doorway in front of me, forcing me to peek around them to witness the event. At 2:38 PM, in a solemn ceremony, federal judge Sarah T. Hughes administered the
presidential oath of office to Lyndon B. Johnson, making him the thirty-sixth president of the United States.

Judge Hughes left the plane, and I returned to my window seat and began to cry again. At 2:47 PM, we were airborne.I vaguely remember ASAIC Kellerman bringing me a prepared scotch and soda. Whether he spoke to me or tried to encourage me in some other way to come out of my funk, I don’t remember. I took the drink, so I must have drunk it, but I simply don’t remember anything else about the flight back to Washington, DC.

Brian's Wasteland. For Brian Doyle il miglior fabbro trollem

Absolutely,  just look at the fucking viewing stats. 

If anyone WAS actually paying attention both Doyle and his Dick would have been shown the door. 

Their entire " Prayerwoman " campaign can be summed up thusly- avoiding contributing anything remotely probative or meaningful,  sitting on the sidelines whining and sniping,  and here's the crux- avoiding dealing with the #1 major issue: namely the images couldn't be any more different,  by conjuring up a procession of mirage, be they lies, fantasy or a mixture of both  blaming everyone else for their incompetence and the complete indifference of the 99.99999999999% , while at the same time declaring victory. 

Brian's not remotely interested in " academic peer review ' indeed he hasn't got a clue what the actual process entails. James Gordon hasn't been anywhere near the 13 inch head forum for months...it doesn't matter it's his fault. What do you think would happen if Brian WAS allowed back on the Ed forum? And his " correct evidence " was met with exactly the same response? Indifference mingled with sardonic amusement? He would immediately start bleating about  " credible peer review " on the Pissarium,  and how it is all Macrae's fault he's not universally recognised and celebrated . Ultimately the people most responsible for destroying the whole slapdash quarter assed Prayerwoman fantasy are none other than Brian and Dick themselves. 

They've,  Brian in particular,  have squandered an entire fucking decade jousting with invisible tittie shaped windmills. 

Excuse following excuse as predictably as lie follows lie.

James Gordon  - MI6 agent,  bribing Chris Davidson to keep his " Scoop Necked Dress " creation under wraps,  may well be the exact moment Dick finally jumped the unicorn...

....in the process impaling himself on the horn.

Oh for a ringside seat in the Sanibel Infirmary A and E Department,  as a somewhat confused,  mildly agitated unicorn,  trying desperately to conceal his obvious arousal,  comes clip clopping in, with a paint huffing hack, resplendent in a piss drenched towelling dressing gown impaled on its front horn..

" Madame " Dick slurs , " it's really quite simply to explain my current predicament,  I was sliding down the banister, having just finished my latest mega essay I was in the mood for celebration,  when I tripped up and landed on the horn of this passing unicorn "

Reality Checks

DER KONIG VON SUMPFBURG 

After vanquishing the doppelgangers and the 13 inch headed dwarves bold Sir Jeremy found himself at a loose end,  hearing this the notorious Wizard of Coz ( it's fake COZ I say so etc etc.) , via his shadowy nexus of shell corporations and front companies- on this occasion the delicatessen wholesaler,  Natural Artichoke and Zabagaloni International and the enigmatic Permindex  Enterprises and National Insurance Services -hires him to teach his spoilt brat of a daughter,  Fraulein Linde Scharf ( aka the Fraudulent Fraulein) Latin..

Sir Jeremy ( somewhat exasperated) - " Ok , let's start again,  from the very beginning,  Un, deux"

Fraulein S ( brightly, raising her hand) - ' I know this, it's duum,  right? Duum, Duum, DUUM"

Monte ( Her freshly spayed Jack Russell)- " Woof, Hic, Heil, DUUM"

Sir Jeremy- " John Butler come back,  all is forgiven!! Even the soccer shin guard loving see through pant cuffs wearing Elephantasis ravaged HARVEY Oswald,  no, for the love of Baggins will you pay attention and listen,  and stop tormenting that poor dog,  Duum is NOT Latin for deux,  it's an archaic genitive..."

Fraulien S " I Know this, Archembaud D' Genetiffe was the saucier in the last restaurant Lafitte worked in,  before becoming a black ops super guru,  there , there Monte , you like it when mummy tickles you there, doncha? Now ive got those nasty smelly old dangly objects safely locked up in my bedroom safe Monte won't be bothering with those dirty bitches any more, or humping  silly old Ron Bulmans leg "

Monte" Woof, Hic, Heil,  whimper "

Sir Jeremy ( plaintively eyeing his trusty lance, and the double headed axe he used to decapitate the doppel breathing dragon of Dolly Shoe) " For the last time" ( in an agonized whisper) " duum is not Latin for two,  and not every businessman born between 1900 and 1920, who operated in the Western Hemisphere during the late 50s/ early 60s was involved in the plot to assassinate JFK, Let's try it again " ( sotto voce- if only the Bank of the Black Monks would lower the interest rates on my mortgage,  and if the missus wouldn't insist on hiring so many troubadours,  jongleurs and court dwarves and spending all those groats trying to get a nose like Guinevere,  I could chuck this job and join the Knights Templar, but 600 golden groats a week is even more than 3 legged Jock makes kicking inflated pig's bladders )

Fraulein S - " Ive REALLY got it now ( WARNING Obuku Millegan LLB PhD ( University of Nigeria) Acting Nigerian Minister of Justice,  acting on behalf of Trine Day Solicitors,  threatens anyone who makes a vulgar response with an immediate injunction and a request to help transfer $20 million) Deux rhymes with Quex,  Admiral Donitz's nickname was Hitlerjugend Quex, therefore Donitz must have been involved in Project Lancelot "

Monte " Hic, Heil" 

Sir Jeremy  " Hobbits to this" ( jumps out the window and goes riding off to down a few dozen tankards of mead with the newly reformed Judenwocky ( after renouncing his past misdeeds he now works as a team leader in a telesales marketing department in Lyme Regis,  where he lives with his fiance,  the ex Das Dormaus)

Linda's recent performance has escalated WAY past the point of mere shamelessness: trying ( but failing miserably) to use every shoddy underhanded trick your average conspiracy salesperson deploys,  when their scam has been rumbled. 

I'm pretty damn fucking certain The Lovely Linda's duplicity and bare faced unscrupulous behaviour will have convinced anyone who was still on the fence , regarding the authenticity of the alleged datebook. 

Like Juddufki ( and others) before her it's her cagey,  occasionally downright murky shenanigans ( not to mention her lack of transparency and her haughty  supercilious attitude) and her inability to respond to a simple straightforward question with a simple straightforward answer,  eschewing personal attacks,  innuendo and backhanded smear attempts,  as much as the datebook itself,  that have set the red flags a fluttering,  like Mayday in Red Square. 

With nothing left to defend she tries to attack : failing miserably, flailing around, trying to impugn Prayerman.

Her comments must have blown the gaskets off every ironymeter this side of Fezville " Authentication is a b- itch "

Not content with this, a woman who has been posting under a false name,  sorry a pen name, trying to flog a book based upon a datebook that is almost certainly fraudulent,  in the process swamping the forum- the Education forum no less, with pages of highly dubious information,  based on fanciful " connections " and sometimes laughable " speculations " 

And let's not forget the late Mr Albarelli's ( and his co authors) attempt at blatant revisionism. Attempting to pretty much rewrite Otto Skorzeny's actual wartime record to make it a springboard worthy of their soaring delusions 

So, a woman using a false name,  pardon me,  since the Lovely Linda seems so enamoured with French these days, let's go with nom de plume,  on a forum where real names are a requisite ( Rule #1 no less) , going running to the moderators complaining about a breach of copyright,  over what amounts to  to a random assortment of squiggly lines and coloured balls( incidentally is Don Jeffries still an active mod?)

A chart based on....drumroll s'il vous plais maestro...the almost certainly fake datebook 

You couldn't make this up.

Since Fezzo the Fez has ( unsurprisingly imho) become such an ardent typically aggressive and incoherent defender of the conspiratorial virtue of the datebook,  I wonder if the distinct lack of doppelgangers in the said artifact has ever crossed his befezzed and befuddled mind. 

Lafitte consistently speaks of Oswald ( singular) surely , someone in such an elevated position,  project manager,  no less, would be fully cognizant of one of the plots most important details?

Lafitte seems like the garrulous sort, always chattering away to his datebook,  recording every incriminating fact in excruciating detail. But,  strangely enough, considering there were,  at the very minimum two Oswalds roaming around the TSBD and the immediate environs on the 22nd November,  not a peep...

Maybe that's what the duum means,  he wasn't referring to rifles,  he was referring to Oswalds..


So, a mere day after sneering at the " super sleuths " at ROKC Towers , she now admits Leslie Sharp is really just her " pen name ", or " nom de plume " for our Les/ Linda,  noted Francophile,  and NO, Robert Montenegro,  I'm not talking about the nail file Franco used to keep his notoriously ragged toenails from ruining the soft chamois leather insides of his favourite pair of jackboots. 

Correct me if I'm mistaken or misinformed but how can it be her nom de plume when she was using it years ago,  years before the book was published?

Reality Checks

Her reply to Jeremy, OMFG.

The Super Sleuths at ROKC have out done themselves this time; I'm so intent on concealing my legal identity that I filed a joint work copyright using it.

No one said you were concealing it. Though you certainly have not been forthcoming about it either. And that goes back many years prior to the book where you had no choice but to copyright in your legal name.

All the times you have mentioned copyright in relation to Leslie Sharp, it is meaningless.

And anyway, this is about the EF rules regarding registration, not you lack of forthrightness. What is rule #1 again?

We have 5 requirements for registration:

1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username)

2.A valid email address

3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403.

4. Your photo for use as an avatar 

5.. A brief biography.

linda's attempt to evoid responding to then points made by Greg D wrote:Why don't you review Doudna's initial attack on Coup in Dallas on this very forum. After much bluster cloaked in allusions to scientific and academic standards, Doudna summed things up with, "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is a hoax."  

He has since rolled out an additional, highly intellectual theorem that goes something like this:  if A is a hoax, and C is a hoax, then surely B must be a hoax.  

All this, having never read Hank Albarelli's introduction which spells out in detail how he landed on the doorstep of a small New England home only to later realize he was sitting on the scoop of a lifetime; nor did Doudna actually read Coup in Dallas before posting his purely subjective and dare I say ignorant analysis on EF just ten days after the 700+page book hit the stands; instead, he opted to attempt — with all the professionalism he could muster apparently — to erode any potential interest in Albarelli's breakthrough investigation  by assailing his coauthor's 5-6 page account of provenance and authenticity. One surely must ask: Why?

Here are avoided points again.

• on page 5: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29044-pierre-lafitte-datebook-1963/?do=findComment&comment=509153
  
  
• on page 13: https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29044-pierre-lafitte-datebook-1963/?do=findComment&comment=509466
  
  

Relying on the old misdirection about never having read the book is pure hockum.  Citing Albarelli's account of how he made the find of the century as proof of the veracity of the datebook, is more pure hokum.  The forger of the Hitler Diaries also had an account of how he came into their possession.   

Putting shit on science is more hokum. According to you, the word of Hank is all that is needed. Putting shit on the messenger (Greg D) when you don't like the message is also very telling of how little you have on your side of the debate.

Doug Campbell on the other hand  — who recently stole intellectual property that is posted on Ed Forum and only removed it from his public FB page after my public Cease and Desist notice — is fairly transparent; as a staunch defender of the Prayer Man Movement, a theorem I continue to question publicly, we can safely surmise "why" after all this time he weighed in on the Lafitte datebook.  Enough said about Doug. 

Oh, I agree, Instead, how about you actually address what Doug said, instead of attacking him? We both know you won't. We both know you can't. But humor me anyway and give it that ol' college try.

PS The scrawl cannot be the Latin word duum.
 it is laughable that you continue to tell the world that Lafitte couldn't possibly have noted "duum" ' the Latin term for the French word "deux," because . . .  wait for it, YOU say so?  

Is Google Translate accurately for Latin? Google translate can translate common terms and simple sentences from Latin to the target language, but it won't give 100% accurate translations.

https://www.universal-translation-services.com/is-google-translate-accurate-for-latin/#:~:text=Is%20Google%20Translate%20accurately%20for,t%20give%20100%25%20accurate%20translations.

It is not the Latin word for "deux: no matter how many times you quote google translate

But if you want to persist with google translate, here is the result for "deux"  transated into Latin.

Translation result

Input French: deux

Output Latin: duo

Btw, I altered the image in question and posted it in this forum. Here it is again.





I await word from your lawyers, Linda. 

Reality Checks

Fezzo the Fez has inadvertently provided a most illuminating insight into his flawed methodology and his crippled  epistemology. 

After you brave  the stench ( your average Fezzo post is the olfactory equivalent of Jim DiEs padded jockstrap,  after wheezing his way through a couple of vaguely provocative squat thrusts) and after you scrape away the obligatory logical fallacies and the classic old skool conspiracy bullshit , our befezzed chum is basically saying he believes the datebook because it echoes what he already believes. 

An epistemological tautology for the ages 

The Lovely Linda is reduced to dredging up the real fucking dregs and those suspicious looking floaters,  that persistently circle the seemingly unflushable depths of the portable conspiracy latrine,  remaining attached,  limpet like to the porcelain,  regardless of how many times you flush, or get Honest Joe - the Plumber to give it a thorough plunging...

Rustling up a highly dubious assortment of militant Juddufkists,  UFO cranks and plain old fashioned oddballs ( not forgetting good old Popeye Bob and the famously indiscriminating " investigative journalist ", Dick Russell,  who was well and truly duped by a long term mental patient with a vivid imagination,  a warped sense of Cold War history and his place in it) to vouch for Coup in Dallas 

As a rule of thumb, it's a pretty safe bet anything Fezzo believes in is more than likely to be utter fanciful cack ( there are exceptions of course. Although,  like his fellow cultists,  Butler and Larsen,  I get extremely uneasy when I see Fezzo trying his best to fuck up and uber conspirify the meticulously assembled Prayerman/ 2FLRE evidence) 

The more strident and hysterical he gets; the more he blabbers on about COINTELPRO,  the likelier it is he's talking absolute unadulterated shite 

The Jekyll and Hyde transformation/ disintegration of David Josephs: " Jekyll ",  David Josephs  -a budding relatively young researcher of not inconsiderable potential , gets seduced and ultimately subverted by the cynical manipulations of a sleazy would be cult leader,  finally transforming into DoppelBrother #1 Fezzo Hyde, should serve as a salutary reminder and harsh lesson in the realities of the unscrupulous goings on,  over on the dark side of the conspiracy street. 

His manic , often unhinged 25 year plus pro doppelganger jihad has not only turned him into a caricature of the researcher he once could have been,  but it greatly diminishes the efficacy,  and the credibility of his earlier work. Despite the lack of focus,  the sometimes impenetrable inarticulacy of his prose and the chronic lack of structure,  some of his earlier efforts,  before his recruitment as Armstrong's Gibber in Chief,  were actually pretty worthwhile 

It's almost TOO fucking ironic,  the guy who has spent 25 years + fezzing and freaking his way across the JFK internet, like the newly discovered paranoid planetoid " Ritalin Minor ", claiming just about ANYTHING- be it document, witness statement, home movie,  photo,  and,  of course,  most notoriously,  a fucking person,  well,  technically two people ( at the last count-)  that doesn't coalesce seamlessly with his Grand Universal Mega Supa Dupa Conspiracy Theory,  is obviously fake,  fake , FAKE 

WAKE UP SHEEPLE and go back to sleep! I'm a one man Fez machine and I don't have time to play COINTELPRO games while I'm bringing down the Mil Ind Cong Complex.

Defending, (or rather attempting to mount a characteristically tepid defence of) an artifact that is pretty obviously a forgery. 

It's the unquestioning ( perhaps unquenchable would be more apt) gullibility that never ceases to amaze and shock. 

I can't honestly believe,  after all the hoaxes and scams of the past 60 years,  reasonably intelligent people,  and long term students of the case can still be duped so easily. 

If the datebook had been purportedly written by Ron Lewis,  Wynne Johnson,  or one of the schoal of low rent grifters, who attempted to hitch a ride on the back of their alleged " acquaintance " with Oswald,  from a lone nutist perspective,  having Oswald talk about his plans to assassinate JFK, the Walker shooting etc, do you think for one millisecond Fezzo and co would give it the benefit of the doubt?

If you do I have a doppelganger in North Dakota , a fake mom in Bradenton,  Florida and a Donald O Norton in Nag's Head to sell you...

Dick? Dick? Are you still there Dick? Grab your passport and your toothbrush,  well,  maybe just grab your passport,  Obuku Millegan,  the Nigerian Secretary of State for Genius has just emailed,  yes, he's still my lawyer and my gynaecologist too, he's the Secretary of State on the weekend,  well,  every second weekend,  the other weekend he's the Chairman of the Nigerian National Committee for Fair Play for Jimi, ive been awarded the prestigious Rear if the Year AND Genius of the Year awards Dick? Are you still there Dick? I know,  I was speechless too, for at least 5 minutes,  as soon as I send them the $50 thousand security deposit and the $30 thousand to pay for my executive expenses we're good to go. By the way Dick I put you down as my plus one,  Grace is still not speaking to me, after my Plastercasters inspired St Valentine's Day surprise,  it was either 1979 or 1980, 40 years is a long time to stay mad at someone,  but you know what women are like,  oh, I forgot,  unless they're 13 year old Chaldean virgin martyrs being pan fried to death, the Virgin Mary or Ma Walton,  who was a comely wench , not forgetting Mrs Stanton,  all women are harlots and playthings of Beelzebub,  anyway Dick, at least I know Grace still loves me,  nothing says " I love you " quite like 987 cease and desist orders, 12765 official reprimands,  45091 lawyers letters, 56 restraining orders, 43 exclusion orders, and the Brian Doyle amendment to the 1998 Stalking Act. Plus,  I'm still not getting any reply from Larrytrotter,  stupid booby,  maybe he's gone off the grid,  become an underground urban commando,  waging a direct action campaign against the ROKC trolls and that booby criminal James Gordon,  if I ever lay my hands on that cowardly noodnick Mark Knight,  I'm going to brand " Shitposter " on his forehead,  ive still got the souvenirs my dad brought back from the war, apparently in Upper Silesia it was a farmer's tradition to brand their giant marrows,  ive practiced on those " volunteers " I told you about Dick, the ones I found outside the 7 -11, I don't know if Mark Knight has the obligatory 13 inch head,  if he hasn't I'm just going to brand him with " toaster"

Dick?, Dick? Are you still there Dick? What are those funny noises? And whose doing all the moaning?

montenegro and sharp - blunt history

Thank you kindly Jake. Your words mean a great deal,  coming from someone who I have always respected. 

Roger, youve pretty much nailed it. Articulating ( one of the) manifold problems with this particular theory. 

An endless procession of names and organisations. Vague impressionistic thumbnail sketches and nebulous " links" I"f so in so knew so in so and if they both visited Madrid in 1961" To be honest I'm left scratching my head,  thinking,  " So what?"

There's never anything concrete. Nothing remotely actionable,  no new leads. Nothing to indicate the actual framework,  why exactly was so in so #1 recruited? What specialist skills did so in so #2 bring to the actual plot?

Imho it's just another variation on the well worn canard: the Grand Universal Conspiracy. 

The whole world , their wives,  their mistresses, their maids and their kitchen sinks  conspired to assassinate Kennedy. A vast unwieldy,  wholly unworkable edifice,  constructed to appeal to a specific mindset and worldview. Imho at least. 

Forget an underground Almanac de Gotha,  this so called datebook is starting to sound like a Who's Who of conspiracy stalwarts. A garnish of familiar names sprinkled, oh so conveniently on top of  a thin unappetizing gruel. 

My main problem is this: if you can't rely upon the proveable claims, how are you expected to believe the UNproveable claims?

That's religion,  not historical research. 

When playing for such high stakes,  and in this particular field it doesn't really get much higher,  solving the assassination is the equivalent of discovering the Holy Grail,  I think Ms Sharp and her cohorts have a grave responsibility,  not to the " research community " but to history. 

If this purported datebook contains the key to the door that definitively unlocks the riddle which has haunted generations,  then surely they have a duty to submit it to the most rigorous testing?

Forget posting tantalising snippets on a relatively obscure debate forum,  if authentic,  this belongs to the ages.

Until and unless its tested I think it should be treated with justifiable scepticism. 

Extreme scepticism,  judging by the depressingly predictable history of similar documents. 

I think certain people are desperate to find nazis under every stone. This desire blinds them and stifles their objectivity,  meaning they end up searching ever more frantically. Under pebbles. Even under toxic discharge,  pumped out by a nearby sewage works. 

Nazis represent a safe, indeed satisfying solution. A simple solution,  without any moral ambiguity. Without having to face up to the uncomfortable truth that black and white really represent an ever widening palette of grey. 

Infinitesimal shades of grey. 

Nazis have become the universal shorthand for evil, thus the people who conspired to assassinate Kennedy were evil, right? Such over simplistic dualism absolves us all of the need to face up to the darker more troubling realities. 

Just as conspiracy theories with their near Godlike omnipotent sponsors help obscure an even more disturbing truth,  an infinitely chaotic truth,  often devoid of rational motives. Certain conspiracy theories represent an attempt to rationalise the irrational,  an attempt to explain away the seemingly inexplicable. 

This explains the often striking symmetry between certain conspiracy theories ( and theorists) and religion. Seeking order out of disorder. The soothing narcotic balm of belief. 

Maybe it's me who is being overly simplistic,  but I think this desire to see Nazis gazing back out at us, from the abyss,  allows us to avoid dealing with the shattering reality that " they " could so easily be "us" gazing back out at ourselves. 

The Nazi regime could never have survived without the active, or passive support of the German people. Their greatest illusion,  their greatest deception,  the deception that assured the trains to Malkinia left Warsaw on time, and the Reichsbahn was suitably compensated,  was their ability to make the inhumane seem almost righteously humane. 

To transform negative attributes into positive,  even desirable virtues. 

On a far more mundane level the whole rickety " theory" : complete with supporting cast of notorious ( and highly visible) Nazis- a chorus line reminiscent, of the high kicking goose stepping dancing girls from the Producers( Otto, Boots,  Degrelle,  Rudel,  Prince Borghese,  Chauncey Holt and Juddufki,  naturally, fetchingly attired in  matching ersatz black PVC SS tunics, fishnets and jackboots,  hoofing it up on the Grassy Knoll  " Springtime for Otto and Prince Black  wintertime for John  John and Jack" As the limo approaches,  James Files turns round and growls,  " Can you guys keep the fucking noise down? I'm trying to do me some assassinatin',  my twin brother back in Chicago can probably hear you pansy queers ") is pure assassination kitsch,  with a hefty dollop of Nazi Conspiracy Bingo on top..

With Sarah Stanton coming leaping out of the half devoured cake, swinging the tassels on her invisible titties enthusiastically,  before croaking,  with a mouth full of fondant and sponge cake, " Just me and my shadow, standing in the doorway "

Master Montenegro makes Dealey Plaza,  November 1963 sound like the  fucking Grain Elevator back in Stalingrad,  with Nazi gunmen peering out of every nook and cranny. 

What are the odds of William Greer turning up in the alleged datebook?

" Spoke to T, Herman,  Boots and Sparky,  SS Greer ok nickel plated revolver back seat pigeon flap flap"

With all those SSs it's starting to sound like the kind of thing Elmo might find in Oscar the Grouch's trashcan..

" Today Sesame Street was brought to you by lots of letter Ss"

Armstrong have mercy on us all.

TROLL WARS EPISODE IV A JEW ( DY) HOPE?

Many thanks Vinny, for having the courage and the constitution to brave the vile noxious stench. 

And for caring enough about the actual facts. 

I find the wilful blindness,  the hypocrisy and the lack of perspective utterly repulsive. 

Amongst certain hardline conspiracists Prouty has been elevated to virtual demigod status. 

Why?

Did any of his supposed leads actually pan out? Did they bring us any closer to the truth? 

Or did he simply reinforce certain individuals deeply held beliefs? 

It's the lack of nuance,  or any sort of aspiration to sophisticated thinking that really gets me.
Not to mention the sometimes staggering lack of knowledge. When confronted with the actual facts,  time and time again,  a certain breed of ultra dogmatic conspiracist reverts to pseudo psychological claptrap. 

Excoriating people for their tribalism and one dimensional thinking. The irony and lack of self awareness is beyond mind blowing. 

I don't know what Prouty's motivations were. My guess is he was a particularly hardened amoral cynic,  a mercenary in the truest sense. Who liked to keep his customers satisfied; by telling them exactly what they wanted to hear. Relying upon the aura and the mystique of his Pentagon career to blind his acolytes and all too willing adepts to the glaring inconsistencies , that scar each one of his narratives,  the way the overgrown shellholes still scar the storied battlefields of Flanders. 

No wait,  what are we thinking,  Vinny.  Those " conference flyers" are obviously just more CIA McAdams disinformation. Probably dreamt up by the same rascal who penned the scurrilous Esquire hit piece. 

Prouty is absolutely symptomatic of one of the main, most debilitating symptoms of militant conspiracism. 

Believe in what echoes your deepest held beliefs,  in what enhances your own private JFK assassination conspiracy. 

Pet theories before swine

Almost every fucking time 

As far as I can tell his various yarns and tall tales have,  not only been on balance a thoroughly negative regressive influence,  but,  they haven't helped nudge the arc of the universe,  even  one paltry one millimetre closer to justice in this case. 

In fact,  due to his horrendous lack of judgement,  his dalliances with the emissaries of an unspeakable,  in it's own  particular way, spiritually, morally and sometimes even  physically,  every bit as destructive as the bottomless abyss Douglass attempts to verbalize, he has causedg revious injuries to the cause he is venerated for purportedly supporting 


Our basic humanity surely must transcend our various creeds. To feign blindness in the face of overwhelming inhumanity because you're determined to keep your gaze  focused upon another,  is, imho at least,  simply unacceptable. 

Unless you are willing to adopt Stalin's rubric: one death being a tragedy,  while a million deaths are a mere statistic,  there is no way to quantify such horror. To deny 6 million deaths,  is to deny 6 million Dallases. Just as to deny the reality of JFKs death is to deny the reality of the collateral suffering  caused by the conspirstor's subsequent actions. 

Prouty's acknowledgement of the reality of one death does not absolve him from enabling the denial of 6 million deaths. 

Anyway,  what great startling insights did Prouty really offer? When dealing with his specific area of expertise,  he certainly offered a rare and candid look inside the actual mechanics of covert operations. 

Apart from that,  and by his own tacit admission ( did he not emphasise the omni prevalence of compartmentalision?) he was indulging in speculation.  Informed speculation,  but speculation nonetheless. 

The back of someone's fucking head in a photo? Superficially plausible sounding speculations,  further bolstered by his insider past? However,  as is so often the case in conspiracy la la land, with a depressingly monotonous inevitability,  they crumble to pieces under even  the most cursory examination. His trip to Antarctica,  maybe he was part of a secret embassy to the alien presence down in Neu Schwabenland? The decrepit old Fuhrer tottering out to meet his UFO flanked by his 8 foot Nordic alien SS bodyguards 

Leaving aside any otherworldly entanglements,  his performance,  rather his non performance before the ARRB,  spoke volumes. 

" Listen,  Len, as soon as they started asking me for verification,  y'know,  actually pony up some hard evidence,  I thought,  uh oh Fletch,  they're out to L Ron your ass, did I tell you about Hubbard's top secret career in Naval Intelligence? Anyhoo,  so I just played along,  remember the line in JFK? About black being white? Well,  it might look like I have been busted as an irresponsible fabulist,  Lt Colonel Mitty,  USMC( ret), but you and I, oh yes,  and that other kid, the lanky goofball,  who kept on sniffing Clearasil and wondering if he'll get laid before his hair falls out?, yeah,  Jeff, nice guy, tell him thanks by the way,  his cheque cleared just fine,  but of course, YOU, Lenny boy,  my #1 disciple have got the real jkckstrap Churchill wore at Tehran,  what's that Lenny? You can still smell the curry? I don't think Persians eat curry,  anyway Monk, great guy by the way,  knows how to stand on his own two feet,  never afraid of voicing his own opinion,  helped me find a couple of other jockstraps,  y'know what? They ain't the same size!! Keep it under your Black OP Radio baseball cap Len, but Jack White and David Healy are working on this,  night and day,  they're up to 3 Churchills already!
Anyway,  what was I talking about? Oh yes,  the ARRB,  I just played along Len, now I know all about MK Ultra and the stuff that went on in the remote viewing labs,  the Philadelphia experiment too,  the guy who sold me the briefing papers from the Iron Mountain report,  gave me a whole load of stuff,  I mean primo grade sensitive compartmentalised for your eyes only stuff,  photos of Generals Twining and Ramey, and Colonel Corso, having a barbecue on Venice beach with Leonardo da Vinci,  Amelia Earhart, Saladin and Fatty friggin Arbuckle, straight  up Len, remember you didn't believe me when I told you abiotic oil was refined from the baby Jesus's tears?, so I don't know what the Agency might have been up to,  maybe dropped some sodium penthatol into my diet Sprite,  but I swear,  honest to God Len, I looked round to see old Georgie Joannides grinning back at me, looking as white as the Lace hood they buried J Edgar in, looking scarier than the time Ed Lansdale played Lady Macbeth back in Manila,  when the boys put on a special performance of Macbeth for Angleton,  Lenny are you ok? It sounds like you are hyperventilating? You've not been logging on to McAdams site again,  Lenny? C'mon talk to me...."

I'm particularly amused by these highly adroit self credentialed scholars repeating Prouty's " High Cabal " comment, you can almost sense them trembling with silent rapture,  dazzled by the hollow glory of the false prophet fulfilled. Apparently Harvard Medical School ( Class of 83 suckas) and whatever venerable diploma mill Dr Pigby and his erudite chums attended didn't have a copy of Ovid's Metamorphoses in their library. Imagine someone like Churchill,  a classically educated scion of the British aristocracy , using such imagery?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!

He was obviously referring to a nefarious Zionist banker cartel.

The alchemical marriage of holocaust denial and hardline conspiracism was almost unavoidable. 
According to the Holy Protocols of High Conspiracism the NWO Illuminati cabal that controls the world is largely dominated by the Zionist bankers of London and NYC

If this was true then how can you possibly explain away the colossal indifference to the unfolding cataclysm. And the powerbrokers ( both military and civilian) in London,  NYC and Washington,  knew full well what the Nazi regime was up to in the occupied Eastern territories. 

Thanks to the intelligence provided by the highly effective Polish underground,  from the very earliest days of the war. 

To explain away the silence and the non response the subsequent generations of post war apologists,  neo nazis,  anti semites and assorted fellow travellers,  attempted to explain away the reality of the holocaust itself. 

Just try wading through the latest bilge. We have Ms Sharp , resorting to the fire and brimstone polarity of a revivalist meeting,  quoting the magical Lafitte datebook as if it was Holy scripture,  waving Coup in Dallas above her head, damning the heretic misbeilievers,  who refuse the salvation offered by the blessed prophets of St Hank, to fiery perdition. 

Then we have our resident polymaths: Messrs Barnard and Cotter,  no doubt mindful of their staggering intellectual  superiority,  thus, with the  humility that so often accompanies such prodigious intelligence,  afraid of embarrassing their less evolved fellow members, by overwhelming them with their deep insight and vast knowledge of historical science,  they decide instead to continue their game of " Operation 2- The Revenge of the Mutant Lobotomist " 

" Bzzzt, ive just severed your neural receptors,  rendering you historically vegetabilised "

In the process managing to reduce psychology to a list of banal cliches,  or the rules of a fucking board game,  suitable for ages 4-12.

Dr Neiderhut ( Harvard medical...you know the script by now,  the good doctor , in lieu of his most superior educational background is far FAR superior to us poor sniveling oiks. His Harvard education grants him preternatural insights and bestows him instant expert status,  ya dig? So bunk off you foul smelling simpering plebs,  because the DOCTOR is in da house) is the undoubted star of this particular farce.

His brief foray into Neo Armstrongian mythology obviously paid serious dividends ( in fact the illustrious doctor hasn't been so delighted with an investment since " Honest" Jimbo Baggins,  Middle Earth's most reliable doppelganger oil salesperson and financial advisor,  introduced him to the " Egyptian Tomb thingy " business model " it's got absolutely nothing to do with pyramids doc,  in fact it has about as much to do with pyramids as the H and L theory has to do with the actual JFK assassination!" , Jimbo assured him, while,  purely by chance,  checking the time of the next scheduled flight from Middle Earth to Rio de Janiero , via Ulaan Bataar and Sanibel Island,  In fact the good doctor is expecting the first installment of his projected 10000% return anyday now. Coincidentally,  Jimbo Baggins hasn't been seen since the day after Dr Neiderhuts cheque cleared, he was last spotted in Sweeney Todd and Alan Tippit's barbershop,  getting his goatee and his hobbit feet shaved, buying hair dye and asking directions to the Brazilian  and Outer Mongolian consulates) as he's doing an uncanny impersonation of Jimbo Baggins at his most incredulous and Fezzo the Fez at his most unflinchingly dogmatic/ melodramatic 

Simply repeating the " claims" over and over,  and over again. Interspersed with characteristically limp and soggy attempts at verbal pyrotechnics and lurid allegations,  that would probably border on the libellous if they weren't so transparently nonsensical,  not to mention hilarious. 

I just don't understand it. Dr Neiderhut is obviously a smart guy,  and I don't doubt his intentions,  but yet he , like so many others,  seems curiously susceptible to conspiracy induced myopia and lack of mental continence. 

He seems determined to out conspiracy the worst media,  my apologies,  M$M, stereotypes,   guzzling down the wackiest conspiracy crud as if he was gorging himself on Sarah Stanton's homemade chocolate cheesecakes....

As for Jeff Carter? He should be ashamed of himself. Seriously ashamed. The world we live in is infinitely larger,  and more complex than the JFK assassination. To reduce everything to a  ridiculously simplistic binary equation,  judging everyone by some fanciful K and Ks devised litmus test,  further underlines the lack of perspective, not to mention their severely limited perception and perhaps explains their sometimes breathtaking gullibility and tone deafness. 

Jim DiE and his dwindling band of disciples always attempt to downplay the relevance of everything outside the minuscule conspiracy bubble,  trying to make the world small enough to fit into their specific worldviews,  rather than attempting to embrace the universal. 

I suspect its down to ego. Preferring to be the large piece in a small puzzle than a tiny piece in the grand all encompassing puzzle. 

This lack of sophistication and vision perhaps helps explain the susceptibility to a seemingly endless procession of hucksters and charlatans,  touting a cosmic swag bag full of troof and mind blowing secret disclosures 

Apologies for yet another rant. It just makes me sick.

Reopen the case of the Walker shot

Greg D., I went back over your essay in greater detail. While it would not be totally out of character for Walker to stage a failed assassination attempt on himself, I’m unconvinced by your scenario.

Your scenario relies heavily on William Surrey yet details provided by him contain too many glaring errors and apparent contradictions with what his younger brother purportedly said. For example, why would Robert Surrey and his son catch up with one of the conspirators and ask “Did you get him?” if Surrey was in the house when the shot was fired?

Why would Surrey (or his family) need to be in the house when the shooting took place? If it was to serve as witnesses, why didn’t they tell the police what they saw? What is the purpose of sending the Surrey family home and then bringing them back later?

Kirk Coleman stated that man #2 had long hair in the back. Does that fit the description of Robert Surrey?

If Oswald was the shooter, what was the role of the men that drove away immediately afterwards? Based on the leisurely way that car #1 left the scene as described by Coleman, it doesn’t appear that the man in car #1 had anything to do with the shooting.

It turns out that the window through which the shot entered the house DID have a window shade as shown in what appears to be local news footage of the police investigation. How the police missed this in their report is beyond me. The window shade draw string is also apparent in the police crime scene photos. It’s not unusual on a very hot night to have a window open with the window shade up in a home without air conditioning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjXkDLRFzOg

Regarding the obstreperous barking dog that didn’t bark, it is the owner’s conjecture that the dog was poisoned. She never had the dog examined by a veterinarian. A plausible alternative explanation is that owners often keep food and water outside for their dogs. It had been an extremely hot day. The dog could very well have consumed food or water that had a high bacteria count resulting from the high temperatures.Ultimately, the poisoning conjecture is irrelevant as the owner moved the dog inside before knowing the dog was sick, something Surrey couldn’t have known about.  

Even if Walker’s backyard floodlight was deliberately inoperable, as you point out, there was a full moon that evening. I used Stellarium to determine the sky conditions at 9:00 PM on April 10, 1963 in Dallas and note that the full moon was at an elevation of 28 degrees. Assuming the Walker house was 25-30 feet high, the  moon would have been well above the house to illuminate much of the backyard and the shooter’s position. Kirk Coleman noted that the Mormon Church parking lot light was not on as well at the time. How could Walker and Surrey arrange this?

https://stellarium-web.org/

The above observations considerably weakens three of the fortuitous circumstances supporting your scenario, specifically 1) the dog that didn’t bark, 2) the inoperable floodlight and 3) no window shade present.

You add a fourth lucky coincidence that Walker was in a well lit room at night. While most people prefer a well lit room at night unless they are asleep, it does raise the question of whether the particular room Walker was in was luck or planning. That side of the house was the only location that offered relatively close access and concealment. From the surveillance photos supposedly taken by Oswald, it shows no focus on that particular room. While it would not be surprising that Walker had an office that he spent much time in, whether he was in that particular room at that particular time was known to the shooter from inside information, surveillance of Walker’s routine or pure luck is unknown.

I think the police should have taken measurements of the lattice fence which provided the shooter with support for the rifle. It could have provided a lower limit on the height of the shooter. Also curious that the police apparently never photographed the bullet recovered from Walker’s home.

I find the story line behind that Duff character pretty strange. Duff shows up at Walker’s home and Walker offers to let him stay for free in return for helping out? In 1976, Walker was arrested for public lewdness when he fondled a male policeman in a public restroom. I’m wondering just what kind of “helping out” Duff was providing.

Reopen the case of the Walker shot

Greg, I will leave aside the grammar and syntax issues in your 79 page essay, since you don't seem to be bothered by either, and get straight to the issue of substance.

From your first paragraph:

The following represents a breakthrough in the case: a solid identification of one of those two vehicles and individuals seen by witness Coleman. The solution to this identification has been missed in all studies until now. This breakthrough is not minor but critical, going to the heart of what happened that evening of April 10, 1963 and the role of Oswald.


Words matter.

With that in mind, I ask in all sincerity what the hell a "solid identification" is supposed to mean? There is no such legal terminology which can be used to pin a meaning to it. 

What it has to mean for your theory to stand up, is something that constitutes proof. 

Yet we both know you don't have proof.

What you have is

-an identification of a similar car as that owned by Surrey, a bunch of interviews by late arriving witnesses, the testimony of the most comprimised witness in modern history, and a life's mission to defend the honor of a fellow member of your religion. 

As for the witnesses, not including young master Coleman, let's rank the value of different kinds of evidence from top to bottom

Real evidence - another name for physical evidence
Demonstrative evidence - charts, diagrams and the like pertaining to the criime and the crime scene
Documentary evidence - anything really from personal diaries through to internal government memos
Testimonial evidence - what people swear to under oath as witnesses

you have no real evidence

you have no demonstrative evidence save a bunch of photos allegedly taken by Oswald.

You have no documentary evidence that directly supports your contention.

What you do have is the worst kind of evidence, because it is the least reliable  - testimonial evidence.

While witness testimony ranks last, the worst of the worst of this type of evidence is the late-arriving witness with a story to tell an eager author. 

The claim that eyewitness testimony is reliable and accurate is testable, and the research is clear that eyewitness identification is vulnerable to distortion without the witness’s awareness. More specifically, the assumption that memory provides an accurate recording of experience, much like a video camera, is incorrect. Memory evolved to give us a personal sense of identity and to guide our actions. We are biased to notice and exaggerate some experiences and to minimize or overlook others. Memory is malleable.
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/uncategorized/myth-eyewitness-testimony-is-the-best-kind-of-evidence.html



But it is not just psychologists

Government auditors also know it is weak
https://yellowbook-cpe.com/testimonial-evidence

76% of all successful appeals btw, are based on errors in the evidence used in the original case, rather than new evidence introduced. A third of those involve problems with witnesses. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1355030617301144

Skipping to page 3 where you start to list your key facts...

Fact #1: Extensive informal inquiry among the church people using the parking lot
failed to identify either of the cars of No. 1 or No. 2 as belonging to people of the
church. On the other hand the “Renault” was identified; it turned out to be a
Karmann Ghia owned by a young man who attended the church and parked his
Karmann Ghia at the location where Coleman saw what he mistakenly called a
“Renault”. But the cars of No. 1 and No. 2 seen by Coleman were not identified
with any church person despite efforts. Those negative results, and the location of
the activity in the area of the parking lot away from the church and near the
neighboring Walker house, suggest the cars of No. 1 and No. 2 were associated
with the Walker house, not the church

Whilst it may be a fact that "the location of the activity in the area of the parking lot away from the church and near the neighboring Walker house, suggest the cars of No. 1 and No. 2 were associated with the Walker house, not the church"

What is not an established fact is that cars no 1 and 2 were associated withe Walker House and not the church (or some other house)


Establishing the fact that it can be suggested that items A and B were associated with Place B and not Place A is not the same as establishing it as a fact.

You either need to come up with actual facts, not things that might be facts if you only had better evidence - or be far less dispositive in your assertions.

I think the latter is your only reasonable option.

I have no desire to go through all 79 pages like this, nor get into yet another mind-bending debate with you. It is pointless. You will not move an inch on anything that may put Ruth in a bad light. 

In your deleted post, you said something about leaving.

Stay or leave as you will. But don't base that decision on me. I don't "own" this place. I'm just the doorman. 

I do note that you have Larry Hancock in your corner on this, so you hardly need any endorsement from me, anyway.

I think the currect exchange rate is something like 6.4 Parker endorsements equals one Hancock, so congrats on getting Larry onside. You're well in front there. He is a genuinely nice bloke, constitutionally incapable of any conflict with you, even if he wakes up from whatever soporific spell you have cast on him

Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

Ed.Ledoux wrote:Not a worry Mick!
I quite enjoyed producing the works.
I love how everything from Beckley needed huge grains of salt.
Nothing was as described.

Read:
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2127-the-beckley-bunch

Listen:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-161-the-beckley-bunch-w-ed-ledoux

Watch the fallout:
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26290-the-beckley-bunch/

Beckley tales were a valiant effort to steer the observer away from asking questions about where Lee resided in Dallas.

Cheers,
Ed

PS Pat says Female renters used first room/s #1&2 which have same doors as tiny room 0.
Did these woman feel safe in an unlocked house in an unlockable room... but the men are behind TWO locked doors??

Oh BTW Pat should really study her own evidence more carefully.
Exhibit 3:
Receipt for ROOM 0

And as you've pointed out before, how stupid were those cops also listing it as Room 0?

"There was no number on this room, just the designation 0"
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190227/m1/5/?q=senkel

Did Oswald deny living at 1026 N Beckley?

Not a worry Mick!
I quite enjoyed producing the works.
I love how everything from Beckley needed huge grains of salt.
Nothing was as described.

Read:
https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2127-the-beckley-bunch

Listen:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-161-the-beckley-bunch-w-ed-ledoux

Watch the fallout:
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/26290-the-beckley-bunch/

Beckley tales were a valiant effort to steer the observer away from asking questions about where Lee resided in Dallas.

Cheers,
Ed

PS Pat says Female renters used first room/s #1&2 which have same doors as tiny room 0.
Did these woman feel safe in an unlocked house in an unlockable room... but the men are behind TWO locked doors??

Oh BTW Pat should really study her own evidence more carefully.
Exhibit 3:
Receipt for ROOM 0

good news about Darnell and Wiegman

Yes thanks to Roger Odisio and Larry Schnapf for efforts on these lines. The issue of whether Prayer Man was Oswald is probably the single most important present question on the map calling for an up or down yes or no answer answered decisively on the basis of better images if possible.

Oswald uncontroversially told his interrogators at some point he went "out front with Shelley" but yet no witnesses are on the record as having seen Oswald "out front with Shelley". And since Shelley is seen in the film running away from the front area moments after Prayer Man is confirmed in the position he is seen in the Darnell film, and that was less than 1-2 minutes after the assassination shots, Oswald "out front with Shelley" must have been unseen by any witnesses out front at the same time Prayer Man, unidentified by any witnesses at the time, was also out front. It can be excluded that Prayer Man was Sarah Stanton on the grounds that if it were, Buell Wesley Frazier would know it and have already said so, but he hasn't. Frazier has said he cannot identify Prayer Man at all. Contrary to appearances, it is not unreasonable that Frazier simply would not notice Oswald near him then, despite the images appearing to show him looking right at him (actually Frazier was intently looking out toward the overpass area in the distance where the presidential limousine was last seen, I believe). Yet, there is no confirmation Prayer Man is Oswald either, because the photo is too ambiguous. It is the #1 question to get a true up-or-down decisive answer from a better image, if possible. Thank you Larry Schnapf.

2022 Documents release

Garrison was convinced that Robert Kennedy was trying to obstruct his investigation. But why? 
Today we know Garrison was within arms length of finding someone who would probably have given him enough evidence to lead to the controllers of the assassination- Allen Dulles controller number one. Unfortunately, like Garrison said, his witnesses died on him or he could not get extradition. 
If my thesis is correct, and RFK was trying to embarrass the anti Castro Cubans so diplomatic relations could be started with Castro’s Cuba, then #1. This fact had to be kept hidden until FRK could be elected President and explain everything. 
RFK let Lansdale, upon Mc George Bundy’s recommendation handle this operation and he knew nothing about David Ferrie, Clay Shaw, Kerry Thornley, Layton Martens, Larry Crafard, Jack Ruby.... 
RFK felt he had enough information to get the people who murdered his brother, like Lansdale and probably McGeorge Bundy but he was in uncharted waters with Garrison who was excitedly chasing the conspirators and making announcements all the time. What if RFK went to him and said look, we were behind Fair Play For Cuba. Garrison would say “wow, explain it please” 
RFK would be forced to say I really can’t, I was leaving the details to Ed Lansdale, Bundy told me some things but I don’t know if what you are uncovering is right or wrong. 
So RFK was forced to not cooperate. RFK was maneuvered into this position. The Bay of Pigs was meant to fail from the beginning. And many researchers now believe it was McGeorge Bundy that called off the US air cover.  
Jack Ruby was working with Lee Oswald. Ruby was going to be a hero when relations were opened back up. The mafia doesn’t need an invasion to prosper. They deal in vice. All they have to do is be let in the door. I think that’s what Ruby meant when he told the Warren Commission, “Ask me about the long distance calls I made all over the country” in which Ruby was telling his mafia connections “We’ll soon be back in Cuba” 
RFK probably saw the note alluding to “what we were doing” featured in Gus Russo’s book Live by the sword that said someone was trying to get a letter that would embarrass RFK. Russo contends this refers to JFK trying to kill Castro. Russo says Layton Martens wrote the note. A child could see the difference between the note and Layton Marten’s signature featured next to it on an ID card. It’s obviously written by Lansdale and if RFK saw it he was probably scared that the real plan would be revealed before the right time. Philip Corso mentions Lansdale's notes that he wrote all the time in his book The Day After Roswell. I have a photo copy of one I received through an FOIA request I made, in it  Lansdale wrote to the State Department in which Lansdale laments my father being sent to Ethiopia. Signed Ed Lansdale. The handwriting matches. Lansdale was Allen Dulles protege. 
Steve

The Case of the Nuisance Phone Calls Redux

I agree the whole thing is puzzling. My first question on Valentine is can it be verified he existed and who was he (I can find no information). My second question would be why did FBI not investigate, at least to run down reason to dismiss Valentine's story. Valentine's claim as it stands, considered in isolation, is hypothetically completely possible: if he is already living in Apt #1 of the same unit in Atlanta where Mildred and new husband Miller newly moved into Apt #2, his overhearing could be through a thin adjoining apartment wall. On the face of it, Valentine was claiming to have overheard (through a thin apartment wall) a confession of involvement in the assassination spoken by the people living next door to him who had just moved there from Dallas, spoken of euphemistically by those people as "the attempt on Connally". This particular citizen call-in (of Valentine) might have been of more than routine interest to check out given that there was a reported witness sighting of Mildred's car at the scene of the assassination which may have been the same vehicle seen by Roger Craig. Like you, I wonder why there is no record of FBI interview of Valentine if only to establish that it was a false report (if so) and find out why Valentine did that (if so). Anyway thanks for your information up to this point. I sure wish Valentine could be identified and found and interviewed (conceivably still living somewhere). A city directory listing for Atlanta 1963 or 1964 might be able to verify Valentine's existence (if so) and if it also gave a middle initial just possibly that could be enough breakthrough to make possible maybe finding him...

THE FEZZOTINT

THE FEZZOTINT ( Version Two)

( The first version was mis transcribed.  The extant manuscript actually contains three previously unknown stories: Oh Whistle and I'll come to you my Vlad....Raconteur, internet poet and housewife's favourite gets more than he bargained for after he discovers antique silver butt plug on the beach near his La Jolla trailer park, Lost Farts, Jimbo, a reclusive millionaire has everything a Hobbit could ever dream of...except control of his bowels. When he invites his long lost Hungarian "nephew" to stay at his palatial Hobbit hole " Bellend Towers" not all is as it seems..who are these two strange non related but near identical ghosts who seem to haunt the downstairs toilet? And what has Uncle Jimbo got hidden away in his laboratory? I confused parts of these non related but near identical manuscripts with the  actual Fezzotint...

By arrangement with Bill and Melinda Gates Plandemics R Us, Judyth Vary Baker High Quality Investment Art, American Free Press, Trine Day- The Vaccine ( not affiliated with Trine Day Pharmaceuticals or Judyth Vary Baker- The Vaccine) and Doyle, Hosty and sons Overhead Water Console Installation " You Flirt We Squirt"

THE FEZZOTINT ( original manuscript version)

By M.R James ( vocalisations and parts of the body by Judyth Vary Baker. Warning Body Parts Not Edible)

PART ONE

Dealey Plaza, October 2003, inspired by the triumphant symposium , " Is Seeing Believing in the Assassination of JFK" and after receiving a " research grant" from the Lemkin Institute of Applied Hysterics Legacy Committee ( you might remember them from such famously astute investments- paying some anonymous grifter 100 grand for the rifles used in the assassination and parting with a cool quarter million for the Mickey Mouse y fronts James Files wore on the grassy knoll ) the leading alterationists- Professor James H Fetzer PhD, Jack White, Dr Raul Pigby PhD( Oxon) Tripos ( Cantab) and Dave Healy  online NAMBLA spokesman, eroticist,videographer and Nobel prize winning poet( His Alt Conspiracy Cantos have been widely acclaimed as this millenniums  Canterbury Tales ) have arrived at the historic Plaza ...

Buoyed by the overwhelming popular success of the symposium ( one Duluth University employee ,claimed, when we interviewed him through the bars of his padded cell, " It was like Goya's Witches Sabbat had come to life! Fetzer, a blubberous incubus , writhing and foaming in profane ecstasy as he described Mary Moorman's shoes, the repulsive goat like effigy of Lifton , looming over the 30 or so willing supplicants, and poor old Jack White) Jack White has devised a series of experiments thatllt prove ,once and for all, that the Zapruder Film is fake...

Jack( resplendent in beige turtleneck, cardigan, colour coordinated Hawaiian shirts, jesus sandals with black socks) " Careful with those goats Raul ! You're manhandling Jean Hill, Mary Moorman, Gordon Arnold and Badgeman..do you know how long it took to find a red raincoat that would fit a goat? In Fort Worth?? And where's Lifton? I knew that giraffe wouldn't fit into the horse trailer.. "

Raul ( sporting a Wavy Gravy style pair of psychedelic dungarees, and novelty bowler hat..attempting to herd  a flock of colourfully attired goats through Dealey Plaza) " Eh Jack what do we need a giraffe for?"

Jack ( irritated) " Dangnabbit Raul weren't you a member of the JFK research forum? Remember Mrs Frantzen suddenly turns into a giant! Did Sgt at Arms Monk Burnham ban you for being a provocateur? Tasked by the CIA to follow Jack White around? Raul? Raul? Wait a cotton picking minute.. you're not that Raul are you?"

Fetzer ( puffing up like a badly constipated bloater) " Egads and gadzooks you insignificant oaf! If you don't provide me with a complete CV, several unimpeachable references, a blood and DNA sample ..plus the phone number of your mother..on second thoughts make than any distant female relative under 80 I'm going to orchestrate an online campaign insinuating you are a paid disinformation agent!."

Healy ( slumped over Zapruders perch .looks up .in a bloodshot slur) " Woof woof Rollie Zavada..lone neuter troll..woof..in camera original..woof..why does it hurt when I pee?"

Fetzer( chins wobbling like a topless and fully greased Paul Trejo attempting to limbo dance) " Thank you David for that incisive remark!"

Raul( valiantly trying to prevent Mary Moorman goat from relieving herself and ironically changing the colour of his shoes) " Come on lads! Don't be silly! It's me Raul...Raul Pigby!! You know me .Greer shot JFK the Z film is a blatant fake! People who disagree with us aren't automatically disinformation agents..no, wait.."( lapses into a puzzled silence..

Jack( busy setting up surveyors transit) " Raul catch that goat in the police uniform before it attacks that chihuahua..get it up on the grassy knoll..put it behind the fence...I've a fully loaded AR 15 in my bag ..put it in its hoofs.." ( turning to Fetzer) " Do goats have cloven hoofs"

Fetzer( shrugging) " Are goats jews?"

Healy ( slurring) " woof woof hey lone neuter troll get that fucking police goat up on the grassy fucking knoll and put that rifle in its paws"( collapses into mumbling delirium) " how many nits on the other Sitzmans tits..."

Fetzer ( spluttering) " Egads David Jews dontd have paws"

Jack " ok Raul let's get this experiment started...we'll forget the giraffe for now...after you've put police goat behind the picket fence get those other goats lined up..."

Raul( a look of bemused consternation) " You really want me to put a loaded assault rifle into a police uniform wearing goat's hoofs?'( shrugs) " actually it makes a lot more sense than the Math Rules thread"

For the next few hours, until the DPD, the Dallas Environmental Health Agency and Gary Mack's SFM stormtroopers chased the intrepid alterationists out of the Plaza( David Lifton never did appear, although an intoxicated giraffe was later discovered by Highway patrol officers, staggering around the forecourt in front of the Johnny Reb motel) they tried in vain to get the goats to behave.

Disheartened they gave up and returned to their hotel. Perhaps it hadn't been such a great idea after all... dressing goats up as witnesses in an attempt to prove the extant films are fake...but in reality having Mary Moorman goat, complete with blue coat , white socks and black high heels, wandering around the Plaza,, bleating, nibbling the grass, and chasing poor Raul Pigby round the reflecting pool was no more ridiculous than any other of their harebrained schemes..

After a couple of restless hours, pacing the streets of Oak Cliff, Jack has a brainwave!! Looking up at the full moon, as fat luminous and pock marked as Fetzer ass, looking back down at him..he decides to catch a cab...back to the Plaza!!

Measure the shadows cast by the sun, at 12 30 in the afternoon...by moonlight!! No wonder the CIA fear Jack White more than any other researcher!! No wonder NASA have tried to silence Jack White for blowing the lid on the whole " Apollo Moon Hoax"

If only his bestest bud ,Frankie the K ,could be here to witness his moment of triumph..

The cab driver, Donald, was a friendly enough fellow, kinda familiar looking too, knew quite a bit about the assassination.." nah" Jack thought as he wandered through the deserted plaza, marvelling at the shadows, " he couldn't be another CIA assassin , could he?"

Suddenly Jack feels scared...the familiar outline of the Book Depository suddenly feels menacing...looming over him.. like the time he had toothache in Kentucky and visited that dentist...was carbon monoxide gas mixed with methamphetamine really an anaesthetic...the rain sensors too how sinister they look...Jack imagines rows of disembodied ears stuck to the lampposts.. just to snoop on Jack White..

Then there's a tap on his shoulder..

Turning round he sees a dishevelled figure in a battered red fez come shambling towards him... grinning like Don Jeffries when he drew 1818 in the Holocaust Denial Lottery... clutching a picture tightly between his gnarled talons

" " You Jack White Alterationist? CIA Enemy #1?" He asks in a malevolent wheeze, sounding like Jim Fetzer breaking wind on a bouncy castle..

Jack nods..

" Here, take this"

With a grunt he shoves the picture into Jack's startled hands, 

" You want alteration? I'll give you alteration" he cackles, his eyes redder than his fez. He leers up at Jack, revealing a row of rotten stumps, before he turns and lurches off. His noxious breath reminds Jack of the time David Lifton tried to learn the bagpipes...

" Who...who are you?" Jack manages a muted whisper... like he was back before the HSCA..

The figure stops, and looking over his shoulder he rasps

" I've been known by so many names...my friends and fellow coven members call me Fezzo the Nonsensical...others know me as the Fezzinator...you can call me Fezzo the Fez"

His maniacal laughter echoes through the Plaza... like volleys of automatic gunfire..

Suddenly a bell begins tolling..hollow and menacing..

Jack glances round..up at the 6th floor window...he sees himself, his very own doppelganger smiling back down at him...the tolling grows louder..more ominous... mingling with Fezzo's insane screeching and what sounds like the bleating of infernai goats..

The bell tolls for the thirteenth time...then silence..

Absolute silence .

As silent as the audience at Ladies Night at the Texas Very Busy Loyers Club when the announcer introduced " David Lifton..tonight's stripper"

The 6th floor window is as empty as it was at 12 30 on 22nd November 1963..

While the Plaza itself is as empty as the afternoon the animators storyboarded the other other Zapruder Film..

Fezzo the Fez has vanished..

Jack looks at the painting...it looks like nothing special...an amateurish mezzotint of the plaza and the Book Depository...

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Ed.Ledoux wrote:

Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed

Too right Ed,

So, Wes either dashes off to see "Pappy" immediately after the assassination because he's feeling all guilty an' all because Mumma can't get there because she can't drive,

or

He tears off to see "Pappy" for some Dixie Mafia lovin' - he needs help 'cause he's thinks he might be implicated in the murder of JFK for some reason.

#1 doesn't sit with me - never has.

Who Did Craig See?

Jeff Reilley wrote:You know it was the unaccredited doppelganger. Doppelganger #3 I believe

Well, we know Lovelady #1 was mistaken for Os Dop #2 in Altgens  #6, but we don't know what happened to Lovelady #2, so I tend to think it he was the person seen by RG #1 get into the Rambler which was almost certainly Rambler #2 and not Rambler #1.

Fair Play for Vince Palamara

What else could you possibly expect from a Trine Day author?

Conspiracy is their business. No more . No less .

And the vaguer, more nebulous and all encompassing the Conspiracy..the better for them..

It allows their various " trooftelling" " authors" to tell their wildly implausible , contradictory fables whilst weaving the disparate fragments into some grand, if ill defined SuperConspiracy...

Thus we can have Nazi War criminals ( several of whom died over 20 years before...mere details my dear! Kris's Konspiracy Maxim #1 " Never let death or rational thought get in the way of a jolly good Conspiracy") mafia dons, teenage ingenues, CIA types, upper crust blueblood WASPs, Texas oilmen, shady OAS operatives, good ole boy John Bircher racists and a supporting cast of thousands, joining together in the same supercalifragilisticexpialidocious Conspiracy...

The trick is it doesn't have to make sense...this is a religion, baby..

We're dealing with true believers..once you have FAITH..once you accept Mother Juddufki into your life everything is possible...

The thing that disgusts me about Palamara and co is they can't possibly believe it... and I'm absolutely certain they don't believe it..Fair enough every author wants to be published...but at least have the decency and the integrity to admit it. Don't try to have it both ways...Baker's lies pollute everything.. like poisonous weeds ..or fungus.. they infect everything they touch ..once Baker's name is mentioned then any semblance of credibility is lost. Years, no, decades of brave pioneering research destroyed to feed the preposterous fantasies of a conwoman and the egos of a gaggle of gullible galoots who trail along in her wake...

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bakers name was part of a cynical quid pro quo... 

" Welcome to Trine Day Vince! You wouldn't mind if we add a little something to enhance your wonderful manuscript? Just slip Ms Baker's name into your list of still living witnesses... she's got loads and loads of proof, doncha know"

Maybe I'm being unrealistically naïve, Conspiracy publishing is a business like any other business; and there's obviously a market for Juddufkis syrupy brand of bodice buster. I mean what's the big deal, right? The people who buy Judyth Vary Baker aren't exactly the sharpest knifes...if not Juddufki it would probably be some contactee , a retired pest exterminator from Poughkeepsie who's really the intergalactic ambassador from Venus ..

Fair enough, its the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave and if folk want to believe some disturbed fantasist was a mixture of Mata Hari and Madame Curie then good luck to them...

This is one of the huge problems with the phenomenon of internet troofing... especially when you're dealing with people with zero critical thinking skills and an incredibly superficial understanding of the subject matter. 

Actual proveable facts are forced to yield to belief...all opinions are equal, thus the fantastical nonsense peddled by the likes of Trine Day ends up clogging up search engines..The opinions of real accredited experts, people who have spent their professional careers working on the subject in question are dismissed by people who have read one or two revisionist tomes.. Unfortunately not all opinions are equal... they are only worth the facts they are based on.. Remember that odious balloon Larsen dismissing no less than 3 dentists? He could prove the CIA faked Oswalds dental records because he had " studied" the subject for three weeks..

They become accepted as " mainstream alternative" facts...thus in a considerable percentage of online articles about, say David Ferrie, Juddufkis syrupy trash is accepted as being factual..

Fuck the likes of Palamara, allowing his ego to be massaged...a Trine Day author, no less ..for some unfathomable reason he is regarded as the Secret Service expert in residence..

What is some newbie to think when they pick up his book? Only to discover Juddufkis name listed along with real witnesses?

Like Baggins and co Millegan is first and foremost a businessman, a salesman...they couldn't give a fuck about " truth" , they just want to reel the suckers in...

P T Barnum would have just loved H and L and Me and Lee...Once you've made the conscious decision to pay no attention to the actual facts you are free to design a fantasy scenario , catered specifically to appeal to your target demographic...

The few actual scholars, researchers and historians who remain, who treat the subject with the respect it deserves, who follow the facts and dontd just make up a load of fantastical shite, they end up getting covered in muck...treated with derision by the outside world who equate assassination research with the tawdry theatrics they see splattered across the " alternative media" and the gutter press... Juddufki gurning triumphantly out of the cover of the National Enquirer..

Remember the whole Rafael Cruz imbroglio? Who did the " lamestream media" turn to for comment?

Judyth Vary Baker and Roger fucking Stone...the same month none other than Ralph Cinque( that squeaky voiced HGH peddlin' auteur and all round creative genius... if Juddufki claimed he was the product of some horrendous botched experiment...Sid Gottleib's aborted attempt at creating a half men half rodent to let loose in the sugar fields of Cuba I might just believe it) showed up on Infowars , on a segment hosted by that ambulatory haunch of boiled ham, Jerome Corsi, discussing his latest " discoveries"...how the blurred photo of the back of a man's head proves that it was a toupee wearing midget FBI agent and not Jack Ruby who shot Oswald...

I know I always ramble on about our tin foil hatted chums, but I really believe they represent the greatest impediment to getting the real facts out to a wider audience...

Perception and credibility are absolutely key factors...

If Millegan and Baggins or whomever want to peddle their wares at least have the integrity to market them as " historical fiction" or put a disclaimer on the cover...hell, I doubt the type of folks who buy yarns of magical disappearing polyglot Hungarian doppelgangers and elfin featured teenage femme fatales are really going to bother...look at the " ghost hunting shows", both are aiming for pretty much the same target audience...after they were forced to add a disclaimer to the top of their shows( for entertainment purposes only) it made no difference...the true believers will still believe...

They could even cast it in a suitably sinister conspiratorial light...

The NWO the je...eh Zionist minions at the lamestream media forced us to add the disclaimer...to keep the TROOF hidden..

Wanna buy a Juddufki T Shirt??? " My Secret CIA contact went to New Orleans and all they brought me back was this lousy t shirt and a thermos flask full of mouse tumours"

Or what about your very own HARVEY facemask!!! You too can be a secret CIA doppelganger!!!

Or how about selling some of John Butler's famous homebrew?? 

Market it as the Fake Marguerite's Own Moonshine...made to the secret family recipe in a still under the " mysterious" house in San Saba..

After a couple of bottles we guarantee you'll be seeing fake Oswalds popping up everywhere!!

Talking of John Butler..he must have been up at the still all day yesterday... slurping down jugs of Marguerite's Own Moonshine..he proved once and for all he is absolutely incapable of telling fact from fiction..after reading one of Jeremy Bs good natured, if somewhat pointed barbs, satirising the unthinking dogmatism of the tiny gaggle( what is the collective noun for cultsters anyway?) of H and L zealots, he penned a plaintive, almost wistful plea to his hobbity leader " What about the 6 foot 3 inch Oswald?"

Jimbo Baggins is up to his old tricks again...as predictable as a 5 foot 11 inch all American Oswald shrinking 5 inches when he escapes from his secret CIA safehouse to go gallivanting about trying to buy trucks for the Democratic Front of Cuba...

Trying to glad " disbelievers" into " debating" something, in this case the " Two Schools non mystery" that's been debunked more times than Don Jeffries bunk bed, the summer he went frolicking with the ubermensch at Hitler Youth Camp... except of course it wasn't really a " Camp"...more a collection of huts surrounded by a fence...

the assassination in dot points

I've never heard of the "poison his steak at the Trade Mart" theory. It seems a little too convoluted and low-rent. They took the time at the depository to really make a statement there…

Main Street by pistol or luncheon by poison seems a little too convoluted and low rent?
 
Of the three options posited by Greg, the Dealey Plaza/TSBD option—the one that "worked"—was the shakiest and flimsiest in my view. Any "time taken to really make a statement" was after the fact following caveman-like brute force.
 
All of the best, most reliable evidence (interrogation records, affidavits, and news reports, etc.) place Oswald down in front with his boss and co-workers as the motorcade passed by the TSBD.
 
Want to see something convoluted? Try this:
 
After the shots, a police officer enters the TSBD and encounters Oswald near the entrance or just inside the entrance. Oswald is vouched for.
The cop runs up to the roof with Truly, ostensibly via the rear stairs, and encounters a man on the third or fourth floor. This dude is vouched for, and on up they go.
This cop, Baker, fills out a statement that evening in the general presence of Oswald who had earlier gotten nabbed at the Texas theater. Baker mentions nothing about a second floor lunchroom encounter nor Oswald as the man he saw.  
When it became clear that Oswald's airtight alibi had to be deflated, he was moved to the second floor in a series of "refinements" by Truly (Oswald's "damn the bad luck" elimination at police headquarters made these story "refinements" much easier).
Refinement #1: Oswald is seen sitting at a table in the second floor lunchroom (2FLR). *
Refinement #2: Oswald is brought to his feet leaning at a counter in the 2FLR.
Refinement #3: Oswald is standing by the Coke machine in the 2FLR sipping a Coke.
Refinement #4: Oswald is seen (a "glimpse") to be walking into the 2FLR toward the Coke machine.
 
Refinement #4: was the story presented to the Warren Commission.
 
Then six months later when Baker was asked to clarify whether or not there were any additional people in the 2FLR, he never mentions catching a "glimpse" of him, something he did multiple times in his WC testimony, nor does he even mention Oswald by name. No, he just sees a man standing in the lunchroom. Pretty much what he said back in November 1963.       
 
Talk about convoluted! Low rent? Hell, this is skid row!
 
Luncheon poisoning is much more simple and straightforward than this hideous monstrosity.

* The Secret Service did a video in late 1963 where they try to show how a man could have left the sixth floor "snipers nest," ditched the rifle, and then make it down four flights of stairs and into the 2FLR and sit down at a table in 90 seconds. But in doing so, they had the actor descend the four flights of stairs in a mere six seconds!

the assassination in dot points

Replying to Greg's post above. Whew! Where to begin!

The first plot with the gun on Main. I read the Arnett testimony.

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/arnett.htm

So you're taking this testimony - with kids running around with handcuffs, a knife and blank pistol - as "evidence" to prove that there was another plan to shoot JFK and these kids with a starter gun, handcuffs and a knife was going to be the diversion for the shooters on Main? Wow, talk about a leap of faith. It makes no sense. There were times when the car was going 20-30 MPH down Main and in other parts of the parade.

The prescient phone call. I read that document. Greg, do you not realize there are literally thousands of crackpots out there? The clear giveaway of this being nothing more than a crackpot call is the "thermostat..." part. I mean, come on! Again, you're taking something documented and turning it into "evidence" of someone making this call to reveal the upcoming assassination. I mean, wow! I suggest you watch real detective shows, not the 52 minute solved in an hour scripted ones, but real ones. In them, and when they open tip lines up, they get literally hundreds if not thousands of calls from crackpots trying to solve the case. The same here - nothing but a crackpot call.

Dealey Plaza was it, Greg. It was where it was all going to go down. Period. And your speculation that Oswald was a last-minute patsy is off, too. You write a lot about Ruth Paine and yes, I agree with you. This woman somehow played a role in steering the cops toward Oswald so he could take the blame. But you seem to forget that it was this very woman, Paine, who got Oswald the job almost a month before the murder. And she didn't do it out of the goodness of her heart. That, for me, is not a last-minute plan of Oswald taking the fall for the murder.

-------

- who's to say they didn't practice in some undisclosed location set up like Dealey? If you believe, like I do, that there were shots from the front, then it's obvious this was the #1 site well thought out and planned.

And whose to say they didn't have midget Billy Lovelady's up their sleeves, or that Tippit wasn't programmed by Soviet agents to kill Oswald .or that Kennedy was not about to reveal the "alien presence?  Your speculation here is no better supported by the facts.  

-------

You're taking what I'm saying out of context. Yes, it's speculation that the planners did dry runs in an undisclosed location. I'm not going to quibble with you on speculation because, believe me, we ALL speculate on this case. Even real detectives speculate when trying to solve a case. Your Oswald had Asperger's is pure speculation and nothing more. What I AM trying to say here, though, is this was a well planned event but even the planners may have wanted to practice somewhere before the actual event.

the assassination in dot points

I've never heard of the "poison his steak at the Trade Mart" theory.

That seems to be a common refrain in response to any new ideas I introduce, "Can't be true because I haven't heard about it before."

It seems a little too convoluted and low-rent. They took the time at the depository to really make a statement there - the thrown down shells, the backyard photos, which were obviously overdone with the newspaper, the rifle and the pistol. They scream DEPRAVED MADMAN ASSASSIN!!!"

Obviously didn't scream that to Wade who told the media that the assassin was a cool calculating pro who must have planned the hit over a number of months.

You are making the mistake of thinking a lot of he framing happened prior to the assassination - but that is just not the case.  The Hidell ID, the BYP never existed until Saturday and any meticulous planning would not result in confusion over the brand of rifle used. Amateur hour,

And yet, if all else fails, a muddied "someone poisoned his food during the luncheon" with no clear-cut assassin? Why not just poison him at the breakfast at Fort Worth and be done with it?

Kennedy was not leaving Dallas alive and poisoning is historically the go-to method of disposing of leaders and kings. Not sure why you say there was no clear-cut assassin. Since the Secret Service selected his steak at random, suspicion has to fall upon the server.

You may not be aware but the police made an early morning raid on Molina's house and tore it apart - yet the only thing they took was his wife's church list of volunteers for serving at the luncheon. Had this plan gone ahead, The alleged subversive Molina and his wife would have been arrested.

It looks to me like the cops were tipped off about that list and that was what they were specifically looking for. I think this was heading in the direction of arresting Molina and his wife and accusing them of plotting to poison Kennedy if he got past their commie accomplice Oswald.

Fear of WWIII saved Molina.

As for why they did not poison him at the Fort Worth breakfast -- security on the rest of the tour was actually in place. They even rounded up potential threats in Fort Worth. 

Seems way too far-fetched for me. 

Noted.

The pistol on Main Street seems odd too. Everything points to Dealey as the #1 site - who's to say they didn't practice in some undisclosed location set up like Dealey? If you believe, like I do, that there were shots from the front, then it's obvious this was the #1 site well thought out and planned..

Everything that you're aware of and even then, only if you misconstrue it. 

What everything points to is no one caring about where the TSBD patsy was. Maybe partly because they would control the narrative, and if need be, they had alternative patsies in that building. But another reason may be that they were not expecting Kennedy to make it that far. 

The pistol on Main Street seems odd too. Everything points to Dealey as the #1 site 

[url=https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11503#relPageId=107&search=oxnard_and exchange]The Oxnard caller said Kennedy would be killed at 12:10[/url]. It was amended to 12:30 when that time passed without incident. The caller was not psychic. She had to have been in radio contact in real time, with someone in Dallas providing updates on the progress of the motorcade. 

Walt Brown's timeline has 12:10 as the time Det, Arnett chased off a teen brandishing a starter's pistol. Starter's pistols have been used as diversions in other cases. You can read about the incident in Arnett's testimony. The use of a starter's pistol as a diversion, indicates a pistol would have been the assassin's weapon here.

- who's to say they didn't practice in some undisclosed location set up like Dealey? If you believe, like I do, that there were shots from the front, then it's obvious this was the #1 site well thought out and planned.

And whose to say they didn't have midget Billy Lovelady's up their sleeves, or that Tippit wasn't programmed by Soviet agents to kill Oswald .or that Kennedy was not about to reveal the "alien presence?  Your speculation here is no better supported by the facts.  

The plan was indeed well thought out and executed. But that did not include framing Oswald, Necessity meant he had to be framed after - not before - and that part of it was sloppy - hence the need to kill the patsy.  The evidence was never going to get past nosy European press who were far better acquainted with "regime change" and hence were far more cynical.

the assassination in dot points

I've never heard of the "poison his steak at the Trade Mart" theory. It seems a little too convoluted and low-rent. They took the time at the depository to really make a statement there - the thrown down shells, the backyard photos, which were obviously overdone with the newspaper, the rifle and the pistol. They scream DEPRAVED MADMAN ASSASSIN!!!"

And yet, if all else fails, a muddied "someone poisoned his food during the luncheon" with no clear-cut assassin? Why not just poison him at the breakfast at Fort Worth and be done with it?

Seems way too far-fetched for me.

The pistol on Main Street seems odd too. Everything points to Dealey as the #1 site - who's to say they didn't practice in some undisclosed location set up like Dealey? If you believe, like I do, that there were shots from the front, then it's obvious this was the #1 site well thought out and planned.