Gene Kelly Wants to Know, Why all the hostility?

All:

Gene Kelly @ the 13\" Head Forum wrote:There are many individuals in this thread (started less than a week ago) whom I respect highly for their contributions to the Forum.  But I am disappointed in some of the tone expressed.  I agree with Jim D. that this particular subject evokes unusually strong opinions and reactions. Armstrong’s work on Mexico City, the rifle, Kerry Thornley, and the Tippit shooting are all thought-provoking.  The fact is, John Armstong’s work has had influence … and I see no right or wrong here, especially in such a complex and controversial subject as JFK’s murder.  I can’t for the life of me understand why some react so strongly to the thesis of Harvey and Lee.  There’s simply no good reason to characterize someone as “John’s loyal valet for decades” or refer to “the H&L re-education camp”, and those who side with Armstong’s story as “converts to this cause”. Both James Norwood and Mark Stevens deserve more respect … as do all Forum participants.

Gene

I can't speak for anyone but myself, though I am sure others do feel similarly, but after 56 years of bullshit being piled on this case, I think it behooves (and thanks for making a post where I can reply using that word) us all to take a zero tolerance approach to flawed theories and broken epistemology.  Those who flood the internet with their theories are not on MY side - they are wittingly or otherwise, aiding the cover-up. So no, I for one, will not cease hostilities until we are rid of all the crud - from both sides of the false LN/CT dichotomy. We can then work with what is left on the table to arrive at the very least, at a set of facts and possibly even a working hypothesis and/or a more accurate timeline.

If you are one of those who claim we should all hold hands and work together, then I pity the fool who follows that advice. You are basically begging them to suspend disbelief as they embark on Conspiracy Flight of Fancy #1,527. 

More than that, I pity us all. We will be doomed to go round and round for eternity about fake moms, Zapruder alteration, body snatching and the alien secrets hidden in White House walls. 

So Gene... where do you stand... with making progress on this case, or dancing with the Conspiratocracy for eternity?

Agreed. There can be simply no compromise with all the BS salesmen. Most theories are as bad if not worse than the Lone nut myth.

greg_parker wrote:All:

Gene Kelly @ the 13\" Head Forum wrote:There are many individuals in this thread (started less than a week ago) whom I respect highly for their contributions to the Forum.  But I am disappointed in some of the tone expressed.  I agree with Jim D. that this particular subject evokes unusually strong opinions and reactions. Armstrong’s work on Mexico City, the rifle, Kerry Thornley, and the Tippit shooting are all thought-provoking.  The fact is, John Armstong’s work has had influence … and I see no right or wrong here, especially in such a complex and controversial subject as JFK’s murder.  I can’t for the life of me understand why some react so strongly to the thesis of Harvey and Lee.  There’s simply no good reason to characterize someone as “John’s loyal valet for decades” or refer to “the H&L re-education camp”, and those who side with Armstong’s story as “converts to this cause”. Both James Norwood and Mark Stevens deserve more respect … as do all Forum participants.

Gene

I can't speak for anyone but myself, though I am sure others do feel similarly, but after 56 years of bullshit being piled on this case, I think it behooves (and thanks for making a post where I can reply using that word) us all to take a zero tolerance approach to flawed theories and broken epistemology.  Those who flood the internet with their theories are not on MY side - they are wittingly or otherwise, aiding the cover-up. So no, I for one, will not cease hostilities until we are rid of all the crud - from both sides of the false LN/CT dichotomy. We can then work with what is left on the table to arrive at the very least, at a set of facts and possibly even a working hypothesis and/or a more accurate timeline.

If you are one of those who claim we should all hold hands and work together, then I pity the fool who follows that advice. You are basically begging them to suspend disbelief as they embark on Conspiracy Flight of Fancy #1,527. 

More than that, I pity us all. We will be doomed to go round and round for eternity about fake moms, Zapruder alteration, body snatching and the alien secrets hidden in White House walls. 

So Gene... where do you stand... with making progress on this case, or dancing with the Conspiratocracy for eternity?

The Vacant Lot and Speer would nod there heads at the Kelly post. I'm nodding my head at the reply.

There is also this..

Bukowski is one of my heroes. 

There was a big chunk of my life where I was emulating him before I'd even heard of him. I was drinking and writing, writing and drinking, doing performance poetry and drinking. Sometimes I just drank between drinks.

In fact the Avatar I used at the Ed forum was from a photo of me doing performance poetry in Darwin. 

Then I sold out and got a "real" job. I chose not to starve. I suspect I'd be long dead if I hadn't. Funny thing is that I found it easy to give up binge drinking when the boys were born. It took a few more years to give up the smokes.

But my inner Bukowski is still there when it comes to what is important. 

These were/are my people. I hung with millionaires and the homeless, bikies and addicts, teachers, musicians and trench-diggers... none of that defined them or drew me in. It was attitude and outlook that did it.

Addendum: I should have added that I was not comparing myself to Bukowski except in lifestyle/pathways. I do have some talent, but the brutal reality is, I wouldn't have been fit to be his apprentice. No regrets though... if I could go back, I'd do it all again. It was a hell of a ride.

You know when one peach bruises another?
Kelly replied. Let's ignore the bullshit..just be nice.
Isn't that what we were lampooning?

steely_dan wrote:You know when one peach bruises another?
Kelly replied. Let's ignore the bullshit..just be nice.
Isn't that what we were lampooning?

Exactly. He has fallen back on the old stand by "but but but this is the EDUCATION forum..."

That would be like me calling this Greg's House of Gospel. Because you know, anything can be anything. You just need to stick that label on.

And I am certain Jim di much appreciates being confused with Jimbo Baggins.

Gebe Kelly @ the Head Forum wrote:I'm not sure that I would go so far as to characterize Mr. Hargrove's views/posts  as "disinformation", but that's your prerogative to maintain.

No one but no one has characterized Baggins' views as disinfomation in any of the Head Threads. That would be against the Rules and doc would have been straight to the Hall Monitors to report it.

But if Gene thinks the debate is about "disinformation" rather than an attempt to have a discussion about the quality of the evidence, then, like beauty, that perception is in the eye of the beholder. Gene, at least subconsciously, knows that "disinformation" is exactly what it is.

Is Kelly squirming in his chair? After accusing Robert Charles-Dunne of "vitriol" he is quoted in a post by Dr Larsen which accuses RCD of being both "obnoxious" and "dumb". 
Only in the world of H&L does such rank hypocrisy fly. Or will he make a distinction?

steely_dan wrote:Is Kelly squirming in his chair? After accusing Robert Charles-Dunne of "vitriol" he is quoted in a post by Dr Larsen which accuses RCD of being both "obnoxious" and "dumb". 
Only in the world of H&L does such rank hypocrisy fly. Or will he make a distinction?

I think Sandy will be excusing himself from posting for a bit due to health reasons. However, during this period of illness, he will keep posting, but only when he as nothing to say because saying nothing doesn't put a strain on his condition.

These guys are just wilfully blind.
Research to them means confirming their own myopic worldviews. If a fact doesn't fit neatly with their preconceived notions it's ignored, while the purveyor of said fact is either ignored or vilified
Surprise surprise the H and L gang are as humourlessness as they are devoid of even a basic understanding of history.
" Trolling Tracy" being the precious Doc Norwoods idea of a bon mot.
Every time I see the Swinging Cowboys self satisfied porcine snout and read his smug vapid paeans to Great Father Armstrong I want to throw up.
What does Mr Kelly want us to do? Join hands and sing Kumbaya with a crowd of hustlers, holocaust deniers and Dimwits?
As Baggins swamps the so called research community with more of his lies and his propaganda? Make no fucking mistake Baggins KNOWS he's trading in falsehoods. It's a relatively well organised attempt at brainwashing.
The so called Education Forum has been reduced to a recruiting ground for a cult.
These characters should take a long hard look at themselves.
Tittering behind their hankies and ostrich feather fans like a crowd of musty clunged spinsters in a Cheltenham tea shop.. swooning at a naughty word until Mr Baggins comes flopping along on his big hobbity feet to shove some HARVEY scented smelling salts under their delicate nostrils.
Jeffries tender sensibilities were offended by a couple of stray fucks and a refusal to indulge in the conspiratocracys version of Double Think.
But he didn't seem to have any problems nor indeed any scruples when he cheerfully regurgitated the most hateful lies about the holocaust.
I think a couple of fucks are far less offensive than wilfully spreading lies and misinformation about a mans murder.
Two men's deaths including Oswald's.
Not to mention all the other unfulfilled lifes. Snuffed out in the swamps of SE Asia, the poppy fields of Afghanistan, the Middle Eastern deserts or forced into a living death amidst the  decayin remnants of the American dream.
The ghost of HARVEY, his face a pallid shade of painted rust is a Hamlet's ghost for post industrial America.
It's time the old guard stepped aside. Their methods are no longer relevant. They're now nothing more than an embarrassment and an encumbrance.
Jimbo Baggins the crazy old great uncle and Swinging Sandy the idiot stepson..
The doctrinaire smugness of Norwood and the Swinging Cowboy, Fezzos delirious incoherence and Baggins glib shiny hucksterism are perfect examples of the Empire in decline. When it mattered most they failed. Flawed as it undoubtedly was Stone's film was the perfect launch pad.
But these fucking geniuses decided to strap the rocket boosters to their assholes instead.
Just read Burnham and Drago. "We know the truth" they declared before Drago whipped out his bongos and kept a stuttering rhythm as Dragoo recited a tone poem while Burnham pouted and wondered how good he'd have looked in Colonel Proutys uniform.
Of course Burnham knew the truth because hed seen the " other film"
It's all bullshit. Drunk on ego or delusions of grandeur or by the lurid vision of countless dollar bills, sickly and luminous, pulsating like  gangrenous hearts torn Aztec like from healthy chests a top the Altar on Elm Street, rising like galaxies out a hatbox..
Turning their hungry eyes to a false idol that rises almost Christ like out the silent wasteland that stretches way beyond the Triple Underpass.
The black car of the American night got lost somewhere between Dealey Plaza and Parkland Hospital.


Mr Kelly obviously wants to join Fezzo, Speer, Baggins and all the gang playing musical chairs on the deck of the Titanic.
Hoping the strains of " Closer my God to Thee" drowns out the cries of " Iceberg ahead!!"
So too this seeming obsession with petty minded etiquette and Baggins increasingly hysterical shrieks about the Marine corps and the fake Marguerite drowns out the realisation that they are now part of the problem.
H and L employs the exact same tactics as the Warren Report.
Baggins and the late Jack White, their cronies and their ridiculous theories are perhaps the greatest obstacles to " truth" today.
If we define truth as wanting to prove Oswald's innocence, and prove definitively that the Warren Report was a knowing deception. Have these truths accepted by subsequent generations and perhaps, most importantly of all , try seriously to begin healing the deep wounds and divisions decades of institutionalised deceit and corruption caused.
Simply changing the focus of hatred will do nothing to eradicate hate itself.
It will only guarantee more hatred. Guarantee that we all will become  both the hated and the haters.
Maybe I'm just being my usual loquacious hyperbolic self but im not so sure.
The 13 Inch head forum is an almost perfect microcosm of the so called " truth movement"
The blindness, hyprocisy, contempt for facts and the almost religious zeal of the believers

As a postscript I'm beginning to find Professor Larsens ignorance genuinely terrifying
Seriously.
The lack of insight and self awareness is absolutely staggering. For a man of his age and apparent education.
His thought processes, or lack of them , provide a fascinating glimpse into the mind of a thoroughly brainwashed simpleton.
One of the faceless brain-dead masses we see lurching down our streets under their various banners.
Nothing else matters except what Sandy Larsen believes
Forensic dentistry, Federal banking regulations, the Russian language, 20th century political science, 20th century history, philosophy....Sandy knows EVERYTHING.
His is the mindset cult leaders rely upon. Easily manipulated. Dumb as a mule and twice as stubborn.
Greg, if you want I could start a thread on Wisners and the CIAs Emigre Operations
There's so many myths that need busting.
About Paperclip, the Gehlen Organisation, the V2 rockets, Skorzeny and the ratlines, the so called Fourth Reich and Dr Mengele masterminding MK Ultra.
H and L belongs in this fevered milieu...mutant doppelgangers with fake scars and even faker mom's emerging out the ruins of war torn Europe.
So many myths have entered the conspiratorial mainstream, to be repeated earnestly by conspiratocracy sanctioned authors.
Bill Kelly's ( and others) apparent fascination with Valkyrie. This is just a basic schoolboy error that bugs the shit out of me.
Valkyrie was NOT the plan to assassinate Hitler .It was the codename of the mobilization plans devised by Generaloberst Fromm of the Ersatzheer ( Replacement Army). Designed to crush a rising of the slave labourers POWs and Ostarbeiters.
The actual plan to assassinate Hitler evolved out of Operation Flash. A plan to ordinated by Henning Von Tresckow when he was on the staff of Army Group Centre.
There were numerous attempts. Some aborted, some failed( a British time bomb was carried on board Hitler's plane but the fuse didn't detonate. Axel Von Dem Bussches famous attempted suicide attack. At a display of Wehrmacht uniforms, Axel, with 2 grenades under his trenchcoat was to pull out the pins and embrace Hitler) None even remotely resembled the Dealey Plaza operation.
The closest WW2 parallels would be Operation Anthropoid, Heydrichs assassination ( hairpin turn, open topped car) or even Operation Foxley, a SOE plan to infiltrate a two man team into Berchtesgaden. A spotter/ interpreter and a sniper. Hidden in the nearby forest the plan was to shoot Hitler when he went for his daily stroll.
Another factoid that really bugs me and causes the tassle on my inner fez to wilt, is the utter shit that's written about Reinhard Gehlen.
He's portrayed as this super spy who controlled the
the vast Nazi intelligence network.
In reality Gehlen was in command of one single department.
The Fremde HeerOst( foreign armies East) department of the Abwehr.
His miscalculations were legendary. Completely underestimating the size and strength of the Red Army.
The H and L gang are completely ignorant of history. Preferring to remain in their cosy complacent little conspiracy bubble.
I'm almost tempted to hold my nose, wrap a tape measure round my head and join the 13 Inch head forum.

Addendum-
I've just finished reading Mr Kelly's latest comments and Professor Larsen's most recent declaration.
I can picture him, picturing himself, balanced on the very tip of his hind trotters, reciting his latest profundity from the top of his ivory tower. Spreading the word of Father Armstrong to the ragged disbelievers crowded below, peering up awestruck at his piggy majesty .
" In Armstrong's name Miss Piggy has really let herself go"
Thats the magic of cults!! The power of Armstrong compels you!! The power of Armstrong can compel YOU TOO!!!( Just send all bank account and credit card details to Mr J Baggins Esq Banque D' Bilbo, Rue Loveladys Forehead, Chad)
It can make a fat piggy faced dolt in a 13 inch hat, standing on his hind trotters on top of a filthy urinal, peering out of a latrine that hasn't been cleaned since Bombardier Gaal was sent to the" Hole" for denying the miraculous conception of the Fake Marguerite believe that he's some quasi mystical figure, atop an ivory tower.
Its certainly not an ad hominem to point out the good Doctor Norwood was not only a member  but the fucking CHAIRMAN of an organisation run by a HGH peddling conman.
An organisation that aggressively touted some of the most ridiculous theories 
An organisation full of open holocaust deniers, the worst sort of attention seeking cranks, ; an organisation that once boasted a convicted sex offender as a member.
The researchers that Professor Larsen mentions are either aged or deceased. Cinque merely exploited their age and vulnerability. Using their names to further his own despicable agenda.
If the Professor actually did some fucking research he'd have discovered that , according to Doc Norwood himself, over 1/3 of the members were uncontactable.
Doc Norwoods association with the OIC is highly relevant.
It shows( at best) a complete lack of judgement and an utter inability to properly evaluate evidence
To paraphrase another Armstrong; it's but one small step between Cinque and Armstrong.
I disagree profoundly about the use of ad hominems. If used properly they are a perfectly viable rhetorical tactic. 
All we are doing here is using a person's  own fucking words to caricature the inherent implausibility of their arguments.
Yet again I say utilising ad hominem, caricature and deploying tactical expletives is far less vulgar and offensive than attempting to distort the facts relating to JFKs death just to bolster some debunked theory 
Not a word from Mr Kelly about Professor Larsen calling RC-D ( a man whose shoes neither are fit to tie) " dumb"
To put it quite bluntly nothing we've said here, indeed without resorting to the racist anti Semetic garbage beloved of Don Jeffries, a moderator, no less, there's nothing we COULD say that could come anywhere close to the toxicity of H and L.
It's not ad hominem either to point out the fundamental hypocrisy of a position.
Never mind fussing about the style of argument, concentrate on the content.
But then again if I was trying to defend something so inherently implausible as H and L I'd be fretting about style. I'd be desperate for any fucking distraction to divert peoples attention away from the lies and the garbage I was trying to peddle

alex wrote:Yet again I say utilising ad hominem, caricature and deploying tactical expletives is far less vulgar and offensive than attempting to distort the facts relating to JFKs death just to bolster some debunked theory 

Ad hominem literally means "to the man". This is not the same as "playing the ball and not the man" because this is not a game of football and words and ideas are not separate pieces of equipment. They are an inseparable part of the speaker. With that in mind, there is zero wrong with ad hom - if the ad hom is both true and relevant to the debate. I also see a clear distinction between that valid type of ad hom and the parody deployed, often alongside it. 

I marvel at the efforts of Mark and RC-D to engage them in rational debate. That is always the first and best option. I honestly hope they succeed where I failed. But where was I supposed to go once it became unavoidably obvious that rational debate was the last thing they wanted? 

I even set up a safe space here to give Doc Newbie the same opportunity to engage in rational debate that I had tried to engage in at the Ed forum with others. How did that pan out? He quit the debate because I asked a question about academic standards. It was not a slur. It was a question.  I am not an academic, but was genuinely surprised when he was going outside what I fondly idealized as such standards. I just wanted clarification. But no, for Professor Thinskin, that question was a good enough excuse to run. He refused to come back, even though I sent an apology.

Let's just get this out there. These people are pushing a work that is not only farcically improbable, it contains no end of half-truths, relevant omissions and downright lies.

Armstrong knew his work was debunked 20 years before publication by the mastoid scar shown at the second autopsy.

Armstrong omitted the fact that the two San Saba witnesses both told the FBI that all three boys lived with Marguerite at that address. He hid this fact because it was essential to his theory that the fake Marguerite lived there with only the fake Lee. 

He also found evidence in Tarrant County records that Marguerite had actually rented out the property for 12 months from August 1, 1947 to a Buster Murray. Armstrong tried to get around this by broadly hinting that Buster Murray didn't exist, leaving the reader to conclude that the FBI had forged and planted this Tarrant County Record to throw off future researchers.

The above renting to Murray means that the official timeline is correct. Marguerite moved in with her THREE boys in the summer of '48.

Armstrong used Lee's tonsilectomy as another of his proofs that there were two Oswalds because the Oswald in Minsk had tonsils. Now while the internet was in its infancy at the time he did his research, and Armstrong himself is said not be terribly computer literate, I am certain he has the same access to doctors as anyone else. All he had to was ask one to see if there was any medical explanation for this. There is. Tonsils can and sometimes do, grow back, especially if only partially removed to start with. The response by his acolytes to this?  Thank me for the information and remove it from the "proofs"? No. They claimed it was so unusual an occurrence that it still stood as good evidence.  Let me just add that the chance of them growing back is much less than the sun coming up tomorrow, but much greater than winning lotto. But the point is, they did grow back.

These are just a small number of examples that show that what they sell is deeply flawed and deceptive and many other examples have been shown to them on multiple occasions.  They do not care. They are not interested.                                                                                       

So here I am, sniping from a distance, having been booted for trying to educate at the education forum. I will not stop. Nor while I change my style. Not because of faux outrage about cuss words. And not because of false claims that ad hom is ALWAYS inappropriate. I'll save my "best" behavior for those who are not peddling snake oil or running from facts that debunk their theories.

alex_wilson wrote:
The lack of insight and self awareness is absolutely staggering. For a man of his age and apparent education.
His thought processes, or lack of them , provide a fascinating glimpse into the mind of a thoroughly brainwashed simpleton.

The 'Harvey and Lee' cult does seem to attract more than its fair share of idiots who think that formal education equals intelligence, or that getting good marks in an IQ test equals intelligence. It ain't necessarily so. 'Intelligence' comprises a whole range of skills, and everyone is lacking some of those skills.

You may, for example, be the world's leading authority on 17th-century Venezuelan pottery. Or you may have written the definitive scholarly account of the use of the semi-colon in the novels of Charles Dickens. You may be able to play chess blindfolded, or to solve cryptic crosswords in record time. But if you are disposed to see the world as a gigantic conspiracy, you will have a hard time getting to the bottom of something like the JFK assassination, because you are liable to interpret any harmless coincidence as part of a gigantic conspiracy.

The ability to think critically is what matters when dealing with a subject, like the JFK assassination, which contains large amounts of contradictory information. What you need is a strong wheat-from-the-chaff filter, the ability to identify what is credible and what is not. You need to be able to take evidence that seems to fit into a pattern, and discard it if it is contradicted by other, more credible, evidence (something I haven't always succeeding in doing myself, by the way).

If you look at the world in a conspiratorial way, and if you treat the JFK assassination as an intellectual game in which the goal is to construct the most complex structure from the available evidence, of course you're going to end up believing in top-secret long-term schemes involving doppelganger Oswalds and doppelganger Marguerites, and teams of FBI agents going around the country destroying evidence, and teams of CIA agents tracking down and altering all the photographs and home movies taken in Dealey Plaza.

In the field of Venezuelan pottery, you aren't an idiot, but in the field of things that actually happen in the world, you are an idiot, because the world doesn't work the way you think it does. Although conspiracies happen, as they did in Dallas, the world is not a gigantic conspiracy. You are probably able to suspend your paranoia when dealing with your own little field. You need to do that when dealing with the wider world.

With the JFK assassination, the trick is to whittle away the coincidences, the clerical errors, the honest but mistaken witnesses, and the liars, so that you arrive at what actually happened. That's the real intellectual challenge, one which many otherwise bright people don't have the brains to overcome.

As usual Jeremy's hit the nail on the 13 inch head..
Professor Larsen may well be an highly talented engineer, however he seems to think whatever engineering skills he may possess automatically makes him an authority in whatever field of study attracts his attention.
Not only is it a ridiculously fallacious assumption to make, but it provides a telling insight into his thought processes.
Or lack of.
It takes years of careful research before you can even begin to understand the complexities and the fluid socio political climate of the immediate post war period; through to the Eisenhower/ Kennedy/ Johnson years.
Then there's the Soviet angle to factor in 
To come blundering in, snout in the air, hurling insults and affecting a patronising disrespectful air just made him look like a fucking dick. Especially when he was monotonously and depressingly wrong. About everything.
Remember the debacle of the missing teeth? Who could forget him wowing us with his financial acumen? He couldn't even tell a disbursement postal order from an ordinary one!!
Imagine having the sheer gall to tell someone " you don't understand the evidence"
Come to think of it the good Professor Larsen with his dazzling evidentiary skills was the perfect recruit. And with his hat too!! A born 13 Inch Headite( if you think you maybe similarly afflicted please send 5000 USD to the John Armstrong Medical Centre, Rue Schwarzenegger, Port Au Prince, Haiti and we'll send you our special David Josephs autograph tape measure/ surveyors rod)
Harvey and Lee doesn't deal in evidence , it deals in carefully massaged memories, mistakes and wilful misinterpretation.
Every time a piece of their so called evidence is examined by an unbiased non believer crumbles to dust.
The cultists react to truth the same way a vampire reacts to sunlight.
Like the undead the cultsters thrive in the darkness, lurking in the shadows, where a photograph of HARVEY can be " mistaken" for one of LEE.
Theyve been busted AGAIN!!
Over on the 13 Inch Head forum Tony Krome has found yet another discrepancy.
But yet Jimbo Baggins has the sheer audacity to whine plaintively " why does the truth anger so many people?"
Another of his favourite routines .. the persecuted martyr.
A brave truth seeker vilified by a malignant coven of trolls and disinfo goons.
I wish they had webcams down in Middle Earth! ROKC troll punks could chip in to have one installed in Jimbos little Hobbit hole, round the back end of sleepy Bell End hill, to see if he posts that shite with a straight face.
Personally ,Jimbo I think you' cut a pathetic figure. The (un) paid lackey of some twobit cult leader who seems intent on further obfuscating this case , for profit ,or some other equally tawdry motive.
Quite frankly I view you and your tiny band of misguided fools with a mixture of contempt and pity 
What does anger me however( as it does most clear thinking rational people) is your willingness to play juvenile games with a subject I care about.
I don't want to sound self righteous but history is a subject worth caring about.
The road to the future is through the past, history informs how we view ourselves and our world 
To have that history cheapened and distorted for the sake of some risible long debunked theory should make everyone angry.
Professor Larsen reminds me of another genius.
The esteemed James LaTeer, author of " The Three Barons" Another of Trine Days genre defying pieces of historical slapstick.
LaTeer is a qualified accountant for fucksakes...not a historian.
He came up with this ingenious notion , an equation worthy of the Maths Rules thread!!: The key to solving the assassination is to simply count the number of times an individual's name is mentioned in the index of certain conspiracy books  I can hear Professor Larsen's 13 inch hat start to spin
LaTeer was another one obsessed with a pet theory. Instead of doppelgangers we have Nazis!!
In a post on DeepFooFoo to one of the High Priests of the Conspiratocracy, Peter Lemkin, CEO of the Lemkin Institute of Applied Hysteria, Mr LaTeer opined that the conspiracy not only involved Otto Skorzeny and Martin Bormann but probably an " aged Adolf Hitler directing events from South America!!" Quite how the ex Reichsleiter directed the conspiracy from his shallow grave 100 yards or so outside Charlottenburg Station, Berlin, having died on the night of the 1st May 1945, Mr LaTeer didn't specify.
Having your conspiracy directed by men who had been dead for over 15 years exceeds even H and Ls achievement of being debunked a whole 20 years before the guru concocted the theory.
Isnt imagination a truly wonderful thing!!
Imagine if Professor Larsen and Dr LaTeer got together and did a little bit of brainstorming...we would have the Boys From Brazil meets the Stepford Wives meets the Producers!!
The climax of the conspiracy..a chorus line of Oswald's, in stockings, PVC brownshirts  and stiletto heels high kicking it down from the 6th floor of the TSBD to " Just the Two of Us"...as they reach the front steps a jet of water shoots up from the Reflecting Pool as troupes of tutu wearing Sarah Stantons and Beverley Olivers pirouette Sugar plum fairy like round the waterfall before teams of identical Ike Altgens waltz up to the grassy knoll singing " The Camera Never Lies"..
Then Adolf himself goosesteps in, seig heiling his way through the scenery, it comes crashing down, quicker than a glass fez being hit by a paternity suit by a dancing emoticon , suddenly we're no longer in Dealey Plaza, instead we're in the Trine Day cafeteria ( the central office on Rue Uri Geller, Bangui, Central African Republic)the credits roll as chaos descends...a three way custard pie fight between the Oswald's, the Beverly Olivers and a gang of militant Juddufkists who were busy researching her latest book " Me and Leo How I Sunk the Titanic"...
The above scenario is every bit as historically accurate and respectful to the memories of both JFK and LHO as Harvey and Lee is.

Trying to argue rationally with Norwood and Baggins may well be the definitive definition of the word " futility". The OED should have a picture of Jimbo Baggins face beside the word
They've tried pulling every underhanded intellectually dishonest trick in the book to avoid even acknowledging Mark's incredibly detailed questions.
And then they have the sheer fucking audacity to try to claim the moral high ground!! 
As if Mark, Jeremy and RC-D were being outrageous in their " demands"... by simply asking very reasonable questions about a topic THEY THEMSELVES brought up.
Dr Norwood, in debate it's customary to answer the questions you've been asked, not the questions you'd like to have been asked.
Your evasiveness speaks volumes about the confidence you have in your own position and I'm afraid to say your character too.
You've tried to project this image of a studious, serious minded character, who looks down with almost Puritanical distaste upon frivolity and ad hominem.
I'm sorry but you just come across as a paper tiger and a hypocrite.
Afraid to engage in any meaningful sense; preferring instead to mouth the Armstrongian party line.
Displaying all the insight and awareness of a Victorian schoolboy reciting the Latin verb tenses by rote..
Amo, amas, amat, becomes constant regurgitations of the fact that the FWST printed certain articles.
No one's disputing that, no one, as your more imaginatively paranoid brothers like to claim is trying to make this "evidence" " go away"
They simply want to discuss the provenance and validity of the articles in question.
Unless you're suggesting we simply accept anything on the premise " if it's been published in a newspaper it must be true!!"
You're certainly quick to suspend disbelief when your Holy Book comes under any scrutiny.
Incidentally Doc Norwood, aside from your passive aggressive manner perhaps you'd be so kind as to visit BPetes estimable blog and cast an eye over your own contributions.
Do they count as examples of ad hominem?


If I was Armstrong I'd be praying to myself for Professor Larsen to find a new hobby.
Armstrongism is starting to resemble something even more sinister than a cult.
Armstrong Animal Sanctuary.

Where some animals are more equal than others; but all lies are equally useful
Armstrong himself is the owner. A stereotypical capitalist ..slumped in his sumptuous front parlour quaffing champers, puffing on Cuban cigars, fatter than the circumference of Fezzos favourite fez( with a tassle hand sewn by Beverly Oliver) gazing vacantly at his 60 inch wide screen TV..
Outside in the yard we have Sandy the Swinging Pig, who taught himself to read by using the magazine's he found  stuffed under a rather soggy fez..
( With a vocabulary of 10 words and a staggeringly complete knowledge of the female reproductive system he fancies himself as the farmyard intellectual...even though his vocabulary- fuck, yeah, cum, faster, harder, your ,sister, cucumber and bizarrely Idi Amin is quickly exhausted when the farmyard conversation turns to, as it so often does,  to doppelganger related matters)
Cock Norwood, the recently castrated rooster turned capon ..he just runs around flapping his feathers, crowing and trying to evade the attention of...
Butler the Vivisection Bunny, pink eyed, with electrodes still hanging out of every available orefice, Butler, who was freed from the Sanibel IG Farben cosmetik factory/ military research establishment after a local resident attempted to make a pornographic version of Watership Down in the vicinity of his hutch just runs around the farmyard foaming manically. If he's not busy chasing Cock Norwood he's busy raving on about the "experiments"..although quite what Mary Moorman shoes have to do with a certain South African neo nazi  Cosmetic company is anyone's guess..
Of course there's Jimbo Buttons the amiable old carthorse who just chews straw ,shits, swishes his tail and posts incessantly to Lord Gordos site .. flooding it with inane gibberish that makes perfect sense...to a carthorse.
Then there's Fezzo the cow..winner of the Joseph Merrick Award 5 years running at the Trine Day Beauty Contest ..his curiously fez shaped  udders causing a sensation...Fezzo just lopes around mooing and making pretty pictures out of his dung
Some times Donnie the clucking hen visits from Farmer Caddys neighbouring ranch... telling tales of the latest crop circles and " abductions"..He stopped coming for a while..after Butler the Vivisection Bunny jumped out of one of the countless rabbit holes that litter Farmer Armstrongs sanctuary.. Donnie the clucking hen has the Jim Marrs Institute to thank..it was their experiments to turn Butler into a Venusian Bunny that left him unable to...ahem let's just say Butler is a very VERY frustrated Vivisection Bunny...
Then there was Briana, the Sanibel black sheep( oh how he longed to be white Anglo Saxon Aryan sheep!) Briana knew everything!! Almost as much as Sandy the Swinging Pig..
Briana doesn't come around much anymore..
Cock Norwood , who uses his feathers as a duster to clean Farmer Armstrongs kitchen, said the day Briana disappeared Farmers Armstrong and Caddy had lamb chops for dinner...
But Fezzo the cow said lamb was really codename for MK LAMB ..a CIA project to infiltrate Russian speaking American sheep into the Soviet Union..
Then Jimbo Buttons began telling them all a wonderful story of HARVEY the rabbit who used to stay here ..and his doppelganger Oswald the Rabbit ( their ears were different)
As the sun set over the Armstrong Animal Sanctuary all the little animals sat listening as Jimbo told them about the time Oswald the Rabbit met Jimbos very own doppelganger Jumbo the circus Elephant...when Oswald was infiltrating the Bronx Zoo..
Fezzo the cow drew them all a dung diagram to show the difference between HARVEY and Oswald .
" It's all in the ears" Jimbo Buttons neighed as he swished his tail... almost knocking Butler the Vivisection Bunny off his hind legs..
As the little animals dozed off and as Jimbo looked up at the farmhouse, wondering what that heavily made up Vietnamese girl was doing climbing down the drainpipe.." Ummmm" he thought to himself, wise old carthorse that he is, " I'll have to ask Sandy the Swinging Pig what" no suckyfucky for 30 dolla" means .. he's bound to know"
And as the moon rose, causing the sign above the barbed wire fence to gleam softly 
" Some animals are more equal than others; but all lies are equally effective"
( You could barely see the graffiti Briana had daubed now " Arbeit Mach Frei" Sandy the Swinging Pig thought it might be a flavour of ice cream)
Indeed Jimbo Buttons fell asleep that night dreaming of Arbeit Mach Frei topped with cherries and chocolate sprinkles..so deep was his sleep he didn't wake up when a large ominous looking lorry came rumbling into the Sanctuary..
Only Butler the Vivisection Bunny saw the truck .. he'd ask Sandy the Swinging Pig what " Dr Caddy Premium Cat Food" means in the morning...

The EF values politeness over truth and accuracy. You can lie politely but not tell the truth rudely. They seem to prefer 19th century manners.