Who Is This Guy?

The one on the top right.

Yes, it does look like Oswald Vinny! I wonder if we can determine who the cop is that he is talking to.

I see where you're going with that. Because Oswald was already in custody by the time this parade started, it's not him, though there are some intriguing similarities. Maybe Lovelady but probably not.

Jake_Sykes wrote:Yes, it does look like Oswald Vinny! I wonder if we can determine who the cop is that he is talking to.

Uncle Herbert Sawyer?

Jake_Sykes wrote:Yes, it does look like Oswald Vinny! I wonder if we can determine who the cop is that he is talking to.

Yes he does look like Oswald. Quite a resemblance.

JFK_Case wrote:I see where you're going with that. Because Oswald was already in custody by the time this parade started, it's not him, though there are some intriguing similarities. Maybe Lovelady but probably not.

 I agree. Quite likely not Lovelady.

barto wrote:

Jake_Sykes wrote:Yes, it does look like Oswald Vinny! I wonder if we can determine who the cop is that he is talking to.

Uncle Herbert Sawyer?

Thanks Bart.

You need a high res pic to get a better look at the shirt

LHO was not in custody at the time of the 'hobos parade.' The 'parade' occurred 'shortly' or 'minutes' after the assassination, according to every report I've read. 

The three men were marched to Dallas Police HQ and held until word of Oswald's arrest came through. They apparently saw Oswald's arrival and were told by a police officer, 'You're lucky. You just got to see the man who shot President Kennedy.' All three were booked for vagrancy and either released immediately or detained until 26th Nov, per differing reports.

Of all the images I've seen of 'Oswald' in the TSBD entrance this to my mind looks the most like him. Not the best quality image, but something about the the profile and posture are strikingly 'Oswald-like.'

There are larger scale copies of the photo online, but all of these crop all or most of the Oswald figure out of the picture.

Yes, I agree with you that it does look like him. That view of him reminds me of the film view when he walked past Lovelady at the station and you can see him from behind, except in there his shirt is messed up and his hair askew [from behind]. But same basic features and posture.

I thought, too, that the tramp parade happened later in the day. When I say "thought" that means I read it somewhere and am going by faulty memory obviously. I looked around and can't find an exact time of when they had their parade. It says "shortly after..." but I don't know what that means. Do you have an exact time of the parade?

I guess the larger point is, when he was asked about the pistol later, he admitted he had it when arrested at the "picture show." If this parade happened shortly after [e.g., 25 minutes after 12:30 PM] then he would have had to wrap up his chat with the cop, head on down to the rooming house, got his pistol, then on to the picture show to be arrested around 1:40 PM. I'm leaving out the Tippit murder because I honestly believe that he didn't shoot anyone that day. But it seems like it'd be hard for him to do all of this in that timeline - from talking to the cop to the arrest.

Just came across these arrest reports:

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hobo1.gif

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hobo2.gif

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hobo3.gif

Time they were written - only legible on hobo3 - is 4 pm, so they'd obviously been held for a couple of hours beforehand, not surprising I would guess given the (unusual) circumstances.

Might not be of any relevance, but I notice that all three are charged with robbery as well as vagrancy.

Apparently, another 'vagrant', John Franklin Elrod, was arrested on the tracks at 2.45 pm; could be you were thinking of him. He'd been spotted carrying a rifle, but didn't have one when arrested. He's the guy who supposedly shared a cell with Oswald and said Oswald told him he knew Jack Ruby.

From Unger's Gallery

The documentation on the tramps were from 3 tramps arrested immediately after the assassination. These three tramps are Vincent Caltagirone Jr., Danny Greene and Leo Moceri. Vincent is the cousin of the woman who ran the Winterland Ice Arena and was the brother in-law of Jack Valenti through 1961. He is also Raul.

zangarathepatsy wrote:The documentation on the tramps were from 3 tramps arrested immediately after the assassination. These three tramps are Vincent Caltagirone Jr., Danny Greene and Leo Moceri. Vincent is the cousin of the woman who ran the Winterland Ice Arena and was the brother in-law of Jack Valenti through 1961. He is also Raul.

Sigh!

The cousin of the woman who ran the Winterland Ice Rink you say? The brother in law of Jack Valenti too? ( Would that be Jack Valenti #1 or Jack #2?)

Fascinating stuff!!

Raul too!!

Boy, ol' Vincent sure did like to get around...

In fact that reminds me of a little ditty my old CIA handler used to hum as she was inserting implants into my....well Mr Patsy never you mind what or  where my CIA handler inserted....

Lets just say after that particular insertion I was never able to Hava Negila in a straight line again...

Oy vey

Anyhoo the particular ditty she used to sing was taught to her by a British Zionist Illuminati stooge who used to look after Prince Phillip's Nazi in laws...they were kept in a cage at Windsor Castle and let out on full moons 

It used to go something like this..

" I have danced with a man who has danced with a girl who has danced with the Prince of Wales" Tom Scully Music 

P.S. Mr Patsy any more interviews with Don Jeffries?

If I asked him very nicely do you think he'd autograph my Truth Frequency Radio yarmulke for me?

John Franklin Elrod arrest report 
With thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

A colorized version.

 

I am more interested as i who shot this pic and where can a larger version be obtained from until then it is speculation heaven.....

orangebicycle wrote:LHO was not in custody at the time of the 'hobos parade.' The 'parade' occurred 'shortly' or 'minutes' after the assassination, according to every report I've read.

This photo couldn't have been taken minutes after the assassination.
Look at the shadows on the ground.
The sun is getting lower in the sky.
Steve Thomas

Good point, Steve ... worth a second look.

The guys are walking pretty much south east, with shadows falling to their left, slightly behind them. That would be consistent with the sun already being past due south and heading a little west.

Dallas is 32.7 degrees north; the sun at midday on 21 Nov would be 37.1 degrees above the horizon. So pretty low on the horizon, meaning long shadows, even at midday. Two of the guys are squinting, so the sun is so bright. Again, consistent with midday.

The attached shot of the grassy knoll taken just seconds after the assassination shows the same long shadows, stretching in more or less the same direction as in the hobos shot.

Based on that, my guess is the hobo shots were taken maybe 15 or 20 minutes after the shooting, half an hour max.

orangebicycle wrote:

Based on that, my guess is the hobo shots were taken maybe 15 or 20 minutes after the shooting, half an hour max.

Here's another photo:
https://www.nga.gov/collection/art-object-page.200814.html

Based on the length of the shadows, my guess is that it's between 2:00 and 3:00 PM.
Steve Thomas

Steve, I take your point, but surely it would be better to compare with a non-tramp photo where we know pretty much what the time was, ie about 12.35 pm.

Here's another pic of the grassy knoll right after the shooting. 

https://news.dartmouth.edu/news/2013/11/grassy-knoll-revisited-probes-chaos-jfks-death

See how long the shadows are? At that time of year in Dallas, the sun is quite low in the sky at midday. Hence the long shadows.

The knoll faces pretty much south east, in fairly close alignment with the front of the TSBD, and the shadows in the grassy knoll pic are falling at an angle quite close to the ones in the hobo pic.

I know it's kind of subjective at the end of the day. But the brightness, length and angle of shadow all suggest around 1 pm to me.

zangarathepatsy wrote:The documentation on the tramps were from 3 tramps arrested immediately after the assassination. These three tramps are Vincent Caltagirone Jr., Danny Greene and Leo Moceri. Vincent is the cousin of the woman who ran the Winterland Ice Arena and was the brother in-law of Jack Valenti through 1961. He is also Raul.

Castagirone, Jr was in the insurance business and looked nothing like any of the tramps.
 

Danny Greene... Cleveland career criminal. Looked nothing like any of the tramps.



Leo Moceri. Cleveland mafia. Looked nothing like any of the tramps



Furthermore, to suggest that Greene worked with anyone in the Italian mafia is ludicrous. He hated the Italian mafia. He killed 8 of them before they eventually got him.

This shit might float elsewhere. But not here.

" Zangarathepatsy"s contributions transcend the merely incoherent and anti intellectual.... they are downright offensive.

The great Raul Hilberg's quote describes him ( and his odious associates) perfectly:
" Certain Conspiracy Theories allow stupid people to feel intelligent"

He appears here, from time to time, posting links to various squalid troofer talkfests... " The Greatest JFK assassination researcher in the World" no less... adopting an air( at least trying to) of weary condescension, as if he has been condemned to wander amidst a wasteland of intellectual pygmies....with the weight of his mighty burden balanced, Atlas like on his shoulders.

I find you and your " research" deeply and  profoundly offensive. Every time you open your mouth you offend us further.

Well put, Alex.