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Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by greg parker on Wed 02 May 2012, 8:52 am

Lee David Farley wrote:Spent afew hours over the weekend re-reading Frazier's WC testimony, Greg.

It certainly was a morning of exceptions.  The first time Oswald didn't bring his lunch to work.  The first time he came up to the Randle house.  The first time Oswald brought a package.  Frazier losing track of time.  Frazier hangs back in the parking lot to charge his car battery.

Frazier says he got up that morning at 6:30.  The timeframe for leaving the house to get to work on time was 7:20-7:25.  Leaving at 7:20 each morning for work, according to Frazier, would give them enough time to make the walk up to the TSBD, "hang up their coats and get to work at 8:00am.

Seems strange to me reading his testimony that on this day of firsts, Frazier loses track of time to find Lee wandering around the car port.  He says they left at 7:21 and got to work on time so it seems strange that he then left Lee to walk ahead while he stayed behind to charge up his car battery.

I am with you.  The package was Lee's lunch in an oversized brown grocery bag.  100% certainty.  Frazier's story is pure bullshit - beginning to end.

Went to eat his lunch in the basement after the assassination my arse!
Just as a reminder, here are Buell's contradictory accounts of where he usually ate his lunch:

Version 1: WC Testimony

Mr. BALL - When you get off your job, did you usually go to the lunch room on the second floor to eat your lunch?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; most of the time I don't. Most of the time you see several of us guys sitting down at our own table and we just sit there. I say we usually go up there to get something to drink and I say I have ate up there several times but most of the times I eat with the guys I work with.
Usually we just sit down and eat, and we lay down on the big tables there and sometimes talk or go to sleep.


So version one is that he usually ate in the domino room with the guys he works worked, but on occasion, he also ate in the second floor lunch-room.

Version two from his Shaw trial testimony:

Q: Where inside the building did you eat your lunch?
A: I usually eat my lunch in the basement where I hang up my coat. I sat down like I usually did and ate my lunch.


If we take Frazier's WC testimony on where he usually ate as true, then eating in the basement on 11/22 was a "one off".

Something in the back of my mind has been nagging me about his dance around the lunch issue and has nothing to do with any conspiracy.

According to the official version, all the working stiffs actually employed by the TSBD company had lunch in the domino room. Management had lunch out, or in their offices, while all the publishing company employees had lunch in the 2nd floor lunch room. I am almost certain someone among the TSBD crew that they never did not eat on the second floor because it was strictly for those publishing companies.

I wonder if all this isn't some sort of code for "segregation". I'm betting there were no Blacks employed by the publishing companies, so that 2nd floor lunch room was in effect, the "whites" lunch room and all the "coloreds" employed in menial work used the domino room.

If this is correct, then the 2nd floor lunch room wasn't strictly for publisher employees, but any "whites". But even if it was strictly for publishers, it doesn't mean the domino room wasn't meant to be the "coloreds" only lunch room - even if some upstart like Oswald broke that. In any case, in this scenario, Buell may actually have been telling the truth at the Shaw Trial...?

Even while saying to the WC he usually ate with his fellow workers, he also said that he left his coat and lunch in the basement. Others who always ate in the domino room left there lunch in that room...

While he may have lied to the WC about where he usually ate, it may have been for reasons other than any JFK related reason.

But as usual, the questioners left too much unchallenged, too many questions unasked...

This doesn't get him off the hook though (assuming I'm right, and I may not be) because there is just too much else that does not compute with his story... too much else that has come to light through HSCA testimony and examination of FBI reports. And ad to that - his sister's in-laws (if not also her husband) were political. Dixiecrats. Brother-in-law (and employer of her husband) a future mayor of Irving and accused of corruption and racism during a second run at the mayoral office. What circles did this family run in?


Last edited by greg parker on Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by ianlloyd on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:37 pm

Topical bump...?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by beowulf on Mon 02 Sep 2013, 9:58 am

I don't think it's common knowledge amongst some of the newer people interested in the case that the the Dallas Police were either getting ready to charge Frazier as a co-conspirator, or were creating the pretense that they were getting ready to charge him as a co-conspirator.

Interesting because according to most researchers, Oswald acting alone meant no federal jurisdiction (that's not quite true, but it is commonly believed). A conspirator would mean the US Attorney could bring charges under one of the dormant (but still valid) Reconstruction era civil rights  laws, with a maximum of 6 or 10 years  imprisonment, depending on which one he used. If there was no second accomplice, there was no conspiracy and thus (in theory) no federal jurisdiction.


In reality, the FBI could still have asserted jurisdiction even if Oswald acted alone.There's a federal law (18 USC 1001) that at least since 1934 has made it a felony to make false statements to Uncle Sam. Its like a perjury law without any requirement you take an oath.  Each false statement (and there could be multiple lies in a single FBI interview or PO Box application) is punishable by up to 5 years in prison. Its a pretty big stick since those 5 year hits can quickly add up. I have no doubt Hosty and Bookhout could have easily popped Oswald with 50 years worth of federal charges if they had applied themselves.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by beowulf on Mon 02 Sep 2013, 12:50 pm

moved to other thread

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Redfern on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 3:55 am

What reason was given for Linnie Mae Randle being listed as a TSBD employee?
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/10/1072-002.gif
Box 3 Folder 26   9. List, by an unknown author. Lists names and addresses of witness who gave affidavits, (Photocopy), date unknown. 00001072 4 pages 03 26 009




I believe she also appeared in a list written/typed immediately after the assassination.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by greg parker on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 5:18 am

Redfern wrote:What reason was given for Linnie Mae Randle being listed as a TSBD employee?
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box3.htm
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/10/1072-002.gif
Box 3 Folder 26   9. List, by an unknown author. Lists names and addresses of witness who gave affidavits, (Photocopy), date unknown. 00001072 4 pages 03 26 009




I believe she also appeared in a list written/typed immediately after the assassination.
Put it down to miss-communication. LMR's husband was staying in a motel in Austin that week-end. He told the owners of the motel that his wife's brother worked with Oswald - they contacted the FBI and somehow, it ended up being fed to the DPD that it was Linnie who worked with Oswald.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Redfern on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 6:05 am

Thanks Greg.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 25 May 2014, 2:04 am

I hadn't seen this particular 11.22.13 interview of Buell Frazier.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2859937099001/oswalds-coworker-remembers-the-day-of-jfk-assassination/#sp=show-clips

In the opening spiel, the talking head asks accusingly: "Why wouldn't [Oswald] go outside and see the president for himself like everyone else…?" It's so very important to continue to remind everyone that LHO was loner, isn't it? An innocent man wouldn't behave the way he did, now would he?
 
I continue to see a troubled man when I watch Frazier. When he described the morning of 11.22.63, he covers many things, some extraneous, in minute detail, to the point of slowing down the interview. I sighed "But you can't identify yourself in a picture." But then, who knows how often and in what ways this man is reminded to keep his mouth shut?  
 
To his credit, Frazier says the package LHO brought with him that morning (he cannot confirm Oswald brought it into the TSBD), was too small to be carrying a rifle. He concludes that he doesn't think Oswald acted alone, and—surprising the talking head—says he is not even sure Oswald did it.

My fantasy is that, someday before this guy goes on to meet his maker, he'll "clarify" a few things. 

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sun 25 May 2014, 12:41 pm

Stan Dane wrote:I hadn't seen this particular 11.22.13 interview of Buell Frazier.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2859937099001/oswalds-coworker-remembers-the-day-of-jfk-assassination/#sp=show-clips

In the opening spiel, the talking head asks accusingly: "Why wouldn't [Oswald] go outside and see the president for himself like everyone else…?" It's so very important to continue to remind everyone that LHO was loner, isn't it? An innocent man wouldn't behave the way he did, now would he?
 
I continue to see a troubled man when I watch Frazier. When he described the morning of 11.22.63, he covers many things, some extraneous, in minute detail, to the point of slowing down the interview. I sighed "But you can't identify yourself in a picture." But then, who knows how often and in what ways this man is reminded to keep his mouth shut?  
 
To his credit, Frazier says the package LHO brought with him that morning (he cannot confirm Oswald brought it into the TSBD), was too small to be carrying a rifle. He concludes that he doesn't think Oswald acted alone, and—surprising the talking head—says he is not even sure Oswald did it.

My fantasy is that, someday before this guy goes on to meet his maker, he'll "clarify" a few things. 


I just saw tis for the first time too, last night. Frazier looks exhausted. He sighs a lot. Not 'not enough sleep' tired - more 'sick of repeating the same tired old story' tired. I agree about the minute details he went in to. The reporter obviously didn't want it. "I went down the hall to brush my teeth" "The door opened onto the carport" "She just finished making my lunch and handed it to me". Lots and lots of useless details.
At the end when BWF says "I am not convinced he did it alone, in fact, I am not convinced he did it at all" was obviously a shock for the reporter who then cuts him off to ask if Lee was allowed to even be on the 6th floor.
Seriously. BWF says to you on your news network that LHO is innocent and your immediate response is to ask about how suspisious it was that LHO was filling book orders on the 6th floor?!
I also found it interesting that Frazier was talking about the already typed up confession for him to sign. Is this around? What did it say? How can they pretype someone's confession?
(more corruption from the guys who bought us 'We have our man' and 'the honest line ups'.)
This interview is definitely worth a watch.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sun 25 May 2014, 4:46 pm

greg parker wrote:BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER

Whose line is it anyhow?

Which School Book Depository (TSBD) employee stated that on November 22nd, 1963, he:

1.         took a sandwich and piece of fruit for lunch in a brown paper bag and that it sat beside him during the ride to work?

2.         ate lunch alone that day?

3.         left the building after eating lunch because it didn't seem like any further work would be done and he therefore  decided to take the afternoon off?

If you answered Lee Harvey Oswald to the first question, you would be correct. More than one of his interrogators recalled him saying this. If you answered Buell Wesley Frazier, you'd also be correct. He made this claim during testimony.

If you answered Lee Harvey Oswald to the 2nd question, you would be correct, according to at least Special Agent Bookhout. If you answered Buell Wesley Frazier, you would also be correct, per his testimony.

If you answered Lee Harvey Oswald to the third question, you would be correct, again according to some of his interrogators. If you answered Buell Wesley Frazier, you would also be correct - for that, in substance, is what he told Historian William Manchester in 1964.[1]

Which TSBD employee broke normal routines on that same day?

If you answered Lee Harvey Oswald, you would be correct. He came to work that day with Frazier from Irving after breaking normal routine and arriving at the Paine residence on the Thursday after work instead of Friday. If you answered Buell Wesley Frazier, you would also be correct. He testified before the Warren Commission that he usually ate lunch in the first floor Domino room, and on rare occasion, in the 2nd floor lunch room, but on that day, he ate alone in the basement.[2] He also testified that when Oswald rode with him to work, they would walk over to the building together from the car park, but on November 22, he decided to stay in his old Chevy to watch the rail cars being switched and run his engine "to charge up [his] battery". Oswald, who had walked on ahead, stopped and waited, then resumed walking when he noticed Frazier getting out. However, Frazier continued to dawdle watching the  trains, allowing Oswald to get further and further away from him.

From Huntsville
Frazier arrived from Huntsville, 200 miles south of Dallas during early September and moved in with his sister, Linnie Mae Randle, her husband, Bill, and their three kids. The residence, at 2439 West Fifth St, Irving, was owned by Bill Randle's father. The Paine residence was only half a block away. Frazier testified that the reason for his move was to find employment, and that after having no success on his own, he signed up with several employment agencies. He further testified that he was phoned about the position at the TSBD by the Massey Employment Agency, and as a result, attended an interview with Roy Truly on September 13, commencing work the same day.

It seems incredible that there is nothing in the records indicating the Massey Employment Agency was contacted to confirm the referral.[3] It should have seemed important to have this cleared up given that Buell’s story is in conflict with the testimony of his sister who told the commission that  she had helped her brother search for work, because as a local, she knew all the places that "someone with, you know, not very much of an education can find work." The help she gave consisted of listing all such places. It was apparently as a result of that success, a similar list was made for Oswald. If Buell had found the job through an agency, the logical thing to do would have been to recommend that agency to Oswald. No such recommendation appears to have been made.

A whole mess of trouble
By the evening of the assassination, Frazier was in danger of being implicated in the crime. He was located at the Irving  Professional Center visiting his step-father, David Williams - a patient at the clinic - and taken into custody by Det. McCabe of Irving Police. He was then picked up by Dallas police and taken to the clinic where his car was examined.

From there, he was driven to his sister's home where a search uncovered an Enfield rifle with scope and full clip and a partial box of ammunition.[4] Soon afterwards, Linnie Mae arrived home, and she and Frazier - accompanied by a Baptist preacher referred to as Rev. Campble [sic], were taken to Police Headquarters at City Hall for questioning.[5]

The polygraph
Buell and Linnie Mae were questioned by police until 9:00 pm, at which time their affidavits were taken. After this was done, Detectives Rose and Stovall were driving them back to Irving when a call came through to return them to City Hall. Upon arrival, Rose phoned Captain Fritz who ordered that Frazier be polygraphed. By the time the Crime Lab's RD Lewis arrived to administer the test, it was 11:20. The test concluded at 12:10am. [6] According to the combined report of Rose, Stovall and Adamcik, the test "showed conclusively that Wesley Frazier was truthful".

But was a proper polygraph test actually administered, or was it a prop to get Frazier's future cooperation on the bag alleged to have been carried that morning by Oswald? The affidavit itself gives no detail on the bag except approximate length and that it was folded. What would be required later would be an admission it resembled the bag found in the building.

Between Lewis' arrival time and the time the test was completed, only fifty minutes had elapsed. This seems woefully inadequate when one considers a pre-test interview is standard protocol. On top of that, time was also required to write the questions, including the so-called "control" questions. All this, plus the test in 50 minutes hardly seems possible.

Officially, only Rose and Stovall witnessed the test. However, according to Jim Bishop's 1968 book , The Day Kennedy Was Shot, there were five other officers in the room and doorway apart from Lewis, and the young man at the center of the attention was in a state of near hysteria.

By contrast, Rose, interviewed for Larry Sneed's book, No More Silence claimed to view the test through a one-way mirror. He told Sneed that though "it wasn't an ideal situation for a polygraph... it wasn't necessarily bad either because Wesley was a straight guy. He seemed totally straight forward and passed the test with flying colors."

If such a test was actually conducted with Frazier passing it, why has there never been a report produced by Lewis? After extensive searching, the only report found where Lewis is said to have stated he performed such a test, is page 291 of Commission Document 7, which is an interview of Lewis conducted by FBI Special Agent, Vince Drain on November 29, 1963. And what an interesting interview it was.

The FBI takes over the handling of Frazier
On December 1, (the same day that Drain interviewed Lewis) Bardwell ("Bob") Odum and Gibbon McNeely interviewed Frazier at his place of residence. During the interview, Frazier showed them where the bag extended to when he saw it on the back seat of his car. This measured 27 inches - three inches more than the estimate he had given police. An improvement. Frazier then repeated what he'd said during his polygraph - that at the time he saw it being carried by Oswald, he'd concluded that the package was wrapped "in a cheap, crinkly, thin paper sack, such as that provided by 5 and 10 cent stores". But this time, he added that reflecting upon the matter, he realized that he'd reached this conclusion when he'd observed the package under Oswald's arm as Oswald was turned with his back to him. Odum, using a replica sack made from material at the TSBD, reconstructed the scene, which showed the closest Frazier had got to Oswald was 12 feet, and that the visible area of the package from Frazier's vantage point measured nine inches by one inch. He also now stated that his conclusion about the sack being made of crinkly paper from a 5 and dime was based to a "considerable extent" upon the fact that the color of the sack was a very light brown as compared with the very dark brown paper used for heavier grocery sacks, and that the color of the replica was the same color as the one he'd seen in Oswald's possession. But the FBI cannot have it both ways. By reconstructing how Frazier described Oswald carrying the bag in order to convince the witness he was probably mistaken about it being made of cheap, crinkly paper, the FBI by extension, was admitting the rifle was not inside the bag, as the broken down Mannlicher-Carcano is simply far  oo long to be carried in that manner. On the other hand, if they had insisted Oswald carried the bag in some other way, then they would have had no basis to suggest Frazier's initial description was inaccurate. In any case, Frazier had seen Oswald's bag up close inside the car.

The Federal agents also had with them, the original. This sack, too - said to be stained from fingerprint testing, was shown to Frazier who agreed that if it had been the same color as the replica, it may well have been the bag Oswald carried. As a final word, he added that he felt he was in "no position to definitely state that this was or was not the sack."[7] No position, indeed. The fact is, if the bag Frazier saw had been the same color as the replica, it was unlikely that he saw the bag in evidence. The commissions own experts had testified that the two bags were different in color – even prior to the discoloration to the original.

LINNIE MAE RANDLE

Denial
Ruth Paine testified that Linnie Mae had said “they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked." Despite Linnie Mae's denial in her own testimony that she was aware of any possible vacancy, the Warren Commission Report went with Ms Paine's version, flatly stating, "One of the neighbors present, Linnie Mae Randle, said that her brother had recently been hired as a schoolbook order filler at the Texas School Book Depository and she thought that the depository might need additional help."

Multitasking
On the morning of Friday, November 22, 1963, when Linnie Mae saw Oswald, she was

1.         having coffee after getting up early (WC testimony of Det. John Adamcik, recalling his conversation with Linnie Mae on the afternoon of the assassination)

2.         at the sink preparing lunch for Buell (WC testimonies of Buell Frazier and Linnie Mar Randle)

3.         washing dishes (Linnie Mae to author Jim Bishop in 1968)

Suspicion
Detectives Rose, Stovall and Adamcik, along with three county officers, arrived at the Paine residence between 3:00pm and 3:30pm. At approximately 3:45pm, Michael Paine arrived. At some point after this, Adamcik accompanied Ruth Paine to the house of a neighbor to arrange care for the children so that Ruth and Marina could be taken to City Hall. On their way back, Linnie Mae drove up to the house, and was asked by Adamcik if she knew anything about what had happened, and if she knew Oswald [8] In response, she informed him that her brother, Wesley Frazier, took Oswald to work that morning, and that she had seen him (Oswald} carry something over to her brother's car and put it in the back. The object was long, and wrapped in paper or a box. According to Adamcik, she thought this was suspicious. She then told Adamcik that her brother could be reached at Parkland Hospital where he was visiting his step-father [9]

Under questioning during testimony, he also recalled that she'd told him it was unusual for Oswald to be at the Paine's residence on a Thursday; that in the past, he'd always arrived on the Friday and stayed the weekend.

In an interview with the FBI, Linnie Mae stated that she had seen Oswald arrive with Buell on the Thursday and had asked Frazier about this change of routine. Her brother, she said, had replied that Oswald had come over a day early to pick up curtain rods for his apartment. She repeated this story before the Commission.

None of this however, was mentioned in her statement made for the police on the night of the assassination. If this conversation did take place between brother and sister, then Linnie Mae had no reason at all to be suspicious after seeing Oswald the next morning with a long package. Nor did she have any reason to believe there was anything "unusual" about Oswald being at the Paine home a day early. But her dramatic arrival at the Paine residence to impart her "suspicion" to police is no more remarkable than Ruth Paine's greeting to detectives Rose and Stovall, "Come on in, we were expecting you. Just as soon as we heard where it happened, we figured someone would be out." Or, for that matter, Michael Paine's sudden arrival at 3:45 after apparently coming to a similar conclusion to his wife.

The search for Frazier
Linnie Mae's discussion with Adamcik was what now made Frazier a potential suspect as an accomplice. Shortly after the detectives arrived back at City Hall at 6:00pm with the Paines and Marina, they contacted Parkland Hospital and discovered that Frazier was not there. They then rang around all the clinics in Irving, finally locating him at the Irving Professional Center.

As previously shown, the police eventually took Frazier home in order to conduct a search of the property. At some point, Linnie Mae arrived, and she, Frazier and the Rev Campble, along with Frazier's Enfield and other evidence, were taken to City Hall. It was now around 9:00pm. After giving her affidavit, Linnie Mae was shown "some brown package paper", but was unable to confirm it was "identical" to the package Oswald had carried due to having only seen that package from a distance through her window.[10]

The FBI takes over the handling of Randle
On the same day that Special Agents Odum and McNeely called on Frazier, they also put Linnie Mae through her paces, recreating what she claimed she'd witnessed.

Observing the replica bag, she stated it was the same heavy grade type of paper that Oswald's sack was constructed from. Shown the original bag, she stated if it had been the same color as the replica, it could have been the bag she observed.[11] Amusingly, the FBI, used three pieces of pressed board to "bulk" up the package to Linnie Mae's specification, solemnly declaring in August, 1964, that "when the case is closed these pieces of pressed board will be  destroyed".[12] I wonder if they still have them?

Neighbors saw nothing
December 1st was a busy day for Odum and McNeely. They also interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider, Mrs Mary Ponder, Mr and Mrs Victor Embry, Mrs James Goodwin, Mr and Mrs James Williams, and Mr and Mrs Ed Roberts. All were neighbors of the Paines and Randles. None had seen Oswald as he trudged over from the Paine residence to the Randle house on the morning of the assassination - carrying a long, bulky package or otherwise.[13] This begs the question though, as to why Oswald would risk being seen by neighbors carrying the package which, according to police, resembled a rifle case - especially if he intended using it for assassinating Kennedy later that day. One possible answer (but by no means the only) can be found in what Harry Holmes and Gus Rose said to author Larry Sneed during interviews for the book, No More Silence.

Holmes: Oswald told Fritz that the curtain rods weren't for his room, he had brought them in for a co-worker who needed some. Although some accounts say Oswald told Fritz the bag contained his lunch, he in fact told Fritz (in Holmes' presence) that the bag contained curtain rods for a co-worker.

Rose: Frazier said he didn't think the package had contained curtain rods. He suggested that Oswald leave it in the car, but Oswald refused, saying "No, I need it here." [14] If Oswald had such a package, and did "need it here [inside the TSBD]", it might indicate it contained a rifle he planned to use later with deadly intent. It may also indicate that it was curtain rods he was bringing in for an unknown fellow employee. In that regard, Holmes and Rose may just have independently corroborated each other.

The car door conundrum
In her very first statement on what she had witnessed, Linnie Mae made no mention of which car door Oswald had placed his package. She merely stated, "I saw him put it in Wesley's car". In her FBI statement made the following day, she declared she had seen him place it "in the back seat area".

By the time the FBI reinterviewed her on Dec 1, she was able to go into more detail, saying that she had seen Oswald open "the right rear door of the car" and, presuming he was getting in, turned to go back to the sink "after" hearing the car door being shut.

It was during her March 11, 1964 testimony before the Warren Commission that she finally admitted the truth. After initially repeating her earlier claims of seeing Oswald place the package in the right back seat area, she was drawn back to it later under questioning by Senator Cooper. To Cooper, she responded, "what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched it in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked". [15] In other words, she did not see Oswald place the package in the right back seat area of the car. It was an assumption on her part. Other evidence presented here suggests either Oswald carried it in his lap the whole way – as had been the case previously, or he initially carried it that way but then threw it in the backseat at Frazier’s suggestion.

WILLIAM ("BILL") EDWARD RANDLE

Business in Austin

Neither Linnie Mae nor Buell Frazier were asked during testimony if Bill Randle was home on the morning of Friday, November 22, 1963. His only recorded whereabouts on that day is at the Austin Motel in Austin. And only then because of a tip to the FBI from the motel manager.

Mrs John O Thompson phoned the Austin FBI office on November 23 to inform them that Randle had arrived at about 7:00pm the previous day with a man named Berry J Caster driving a Chevy pick up. The report goes on to say, "they both claimed to be  employees of the Irving Counter Top Company", and that he had a "personal acquaintanceship" with Oswald, the extent of which was not discussed.

According to Mrs Thompson, Randle said his wife worked at the same building as Oswald, and also told her of rumors that had circulated in Dallas that Kennedy would be shot when he came "on account of the Veteran's Administration Offices being moved out of Dallas".

At about 7:30pm, Randle attempted to contact Marvin Randle in Irving, but was unsuccessful, though he did get through in a later attempt, learning that his wife had been called in for questioning concerning the assassination. On receiving this news, he checked out of the motel and caught a flight back to Dallas at 11:05pm. Caster checked out at 7:00am the following morning and drove the Chevy back to Irving.[16]

This report was not followed up until January 21 when Randle was interviewed by Special Agent Warren de Brueys. Randle advised that the trip to Austin was in connection with his employment for Irving Counter Top, that the business was owned by his brother, Marvin, and it was purely a business matter that had prompted his call to his brother. He denied any knowledge of Lee Harvey Oswald, had never even seen him except in newspapers after the assassination, and said he could not recall making any statement that Kennedy would be killed because of the Veteran's Offices being moved out of the city.[17] Notably absent in the report is what time he left Irving that day (it is about a 3 hour drive, so the latest he could have left to arrive at 7:00pm is about 4:00pm); what time he arrived home after his flight; and whether Berry Caster was related to Warren  Caster who had been displaying rifles in the TSBD two days before the assassination.

The rifle scope
There is a Secret Service document dated December 3, 1963 pertaining to the California investigation of the rifle scope inscribed Ordnance Optic, Inc, Hollywood,  California and mounted on the Mannlicher-Carcano allegedly used in the assassination. What is interesting about this document is that no company by that name was located in Hollywood. Instead, they checked out two other optics businesses listed in the phone directory - the first of which was found to now be a phonographic warehouse. The second one was Gordon Optics Supply and Optics Industries. The owner, Murray Gordon, was contacted and interviewed. Despite stating that his business was only involved in importing eye glass frames, the files were nevertheless checked for two names. The first name unsurprisingly, was Lee H Oswald - the other was Willy Randall. Neither name was found. Next, based on a tip from Lt Manuel Pena of the Robbery Division that the Retting Gun Shop dealt in telescopic sights, the owner, Martin Retting, was interviewed. Retting revealed that he was the sole importer from Japan of the sights inscribed "Ordnance Optics, Inc", as they were much used in hunting. He further advised that he had sold them mainly to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago, though he had also sold a quantity to Dave's House of Guns in Dallas. Retting however, was of the opinion that Oswald probably brought his scope with the rifle from Klein's as they usually sold them as a package. Rettings' records were also checked for the names, Oswald and Randall. [18] It seems that Rettings' advice that Klein's was the likely source of the scope was all too readily accepted as Dave's House of Guns was only checked out in regard to the Smith & Wesson pistol.

Was "Willy Randall" actually "William Randle?
The answer is almost certainly yes. Firstly, Linnie Mae is referred to as "Mrs Bill Randall" in several documents. Secondly, at least one FBI report refers to Bill Randle as a "suspect" after the tip was received from Austin. Fair enough. The question is, why, among all possible accomplices, Randle was being investigated specifically (and only) in regard to the rifle scope? But that is just one of many, many questions that remain unanswered in regard to Frazier, Linnie Mae Randle and husband, Bill.


ENDNOTES
[1] Death of a President by William Manchester, p. 355 of the paperback edition

[2] He would not repeat the slip (if that is what it was) at the Shaw trial, claiming there that he always ate in the basement.

[3] The agency was in Irving according to a Dallas researcher who did some checking on my behalf.

[4] Stovall Commission Exhibit C.

[5] Ibid

[6] Ibid

[7] Warren Commission Exhibit 2009

[8] Warren Commission testimony of John Adamcik. Adamcik gave the time of arrival at the Paine's front door as a few minutes after 3:00pm. The joint report of Rose, Stovall and Adamcik - designated Stovall Exhibit C by the Commission, gave the time as approximately 3:30pm.

[9] Stovall Commission Exhibit C.

[10] FBI report on November 23 interview with Linnie Mae Randle by James Bookhout - File # DL 89-43. It is entirely unclear in this report whether the "package paper" shown to Randle was the bag now in the  archives, a replica, or just sample paper taken from the book depository building. The subject was not broached during her testimony.

[11] FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 211 p 115.

[12] Warren Commission Exhibit 2008

[13] Commission Document 7, p 98

[14] alt.assassination newsgroup post by Martin Shakleford, November 5, 2007.

[15] This problem with Linnie Mae's statements on seeing the package being placed in the car was noted in a Lancer forum post made by researcher, Ian Lloyd on October 26, 2007. Lloyd also cited the photo exhibits of the Randle home and carport as strongly indicating Linnie Mae could not have seen all that she had  claimed.

[16] FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 84, p 98. Mrs Thompson was likely confused about Randle's wife working at the same place as Oswald. He had most likely told her that his wife's brother did. This misstatement seems to have led to Linnie Mae Randle's name being hand written under the typed list of TSBD employees who had their details taken as they left the building on the afternoon of the assassination. The name was subsequently crossed out.

[17] Id. at p 99

[18] Post made to the Education Forum by researcher Mark Knight, May 27, 2006 citing CE 1331. Manuel Pena had been working for the Dodd Committee investigating mail order weapons. One of the companies under scrutiny had been Klein's. Pena would later have in involvement in the RFK investigation.


CORRIGENDUM

Cite 14
The correct (and complete) quote from Sneed's book is “Somebody in the room at that point asked him what was in the paper bag that he had the next morning when he rode to work with another employee. ‘Well, that was my lunch’. That’s what he told us. ‘Your lunch? Why did you carry a lunch in a big old bag like  that’?Well’, he said ‘you don’t always get a bag that just fits your lunch; you take what you can get.’ He was that quick, no mincing around, no trying to make up something. He was then asked, ‘Well, where did you carry it’? ‘I carried it in my lap.’  he said, ‘just like I always carry my lunch’  and the driver said, ‘Throw it over in the back seat’. That’s what he said about it! According to the man who drove him to work the next day he had a rather long brown paper wrapper which might have been a bag. The driver asked him, ‘What’s that?’ as Oswald threw it over the back seat. Oswald told him, ‘That’s some curtain rods.’ I’ve noticed in some of the literature that it was for his room, but he told Captain Fritz previously that it was curtain rods which he was bringing because he didn’t need them. As they were getting out of the car, he supposedly said that the curtain rods were for a fellow at work. In short, Homes was quoting Frazier - not Oswald - in reference to having brought curtain rods for a fellow worker.


It's strange in this it says Linnie May had a lot to do with helping LHO get a job and she obviously knew him from the Paine's house, yet in the new interview above BWF states that Linnie May asked him who was outside and he said LHO, the guy I give a ride to work. He made it sound like she had no idea who he was.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sun 25 May 2014, 4:48 pm

Quote from Richard Gilbride, 2nd post. "Another item of interest is that Frazier registered a high stress level (indicative of lying) on George O'Toole's PSE, when asked about Oswald carrying a package into the Depository.
Not having read O'Toole's book since 1985, I'm curious as to exactly which audio clip he analyzed. In this computer age, it might be available somewhere."

I just checked the book and the recording was from a CBS interview with BWF.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Colin Crow on Sun 25 May 2014, 6:11 pm

Greg, LMR said she recognised Oswald arriving with her brother on the Thursday. strange she could not recognise him out the window the next morning.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by greg parker on Sun 25 May 2014, 6:20 pm

Buell was getting the official story confused. LMR was not the one who looked out and asked who it was. It was the visiting mother.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by Colin Crow on Sun 25 May 2014, 7:20 pm

Also in an earlier version he said Oswald asked him for the ride home before 10am on Thursday. Now it is in the afternoon. The detailed parade route hit the streets at 10.30 that day.


Last edited by Colin Crow on Sun 25 May 2014, 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

Post by ianlloyd on Sun 25 May 2014, 7:47 pm

If you look at the plan (CE441) and photographs of the house etc. (CE442 on), you may wonder how the mother (Essie?), who was supposedly sitting at the breakfast table at the time, could have seen Oswald approaching the house. There is a window to the side of the kitchen but, unless LHO walked across the garden towards that window then altered his course, it's unlikely he would have been seen as "approaching the house" if seen by that window; and the front window that LMR saw him through is high up and the front garden slopes away from the house, so only LMR, standing in front of the window looking out was likely to have seen anyone approaching the house in the direction of the carport.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle

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