Lawsuit About Nix Film

Feds hid JFK film that could prove ‘grassy knoll’ conspiracy: lawsuit

https://nypost.com/2023/05/27/feds-hid-jfk-film-that-could-prove-grassy-knoll-conspiracy-lawsuit/

"Digitizing the original film with modern equipment and analyzing the data with modern image processing techniques could possibly bring out interesting new detail."

Next up: Darnell and Wiegman.

StanDane wrote:"Digitizing the original film with modern equipment and analyzing the data with modern image processing techniques could possibly bring out interesting new detail."

Next up: Darnell and Wiegman.

Absolutely.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/lawsuit-seeks-more-footage-of-jfks-assassination/

The original Nix film probably shows the limo stopping so it had to be “lost”.

lanceman wrote:The original Nix film probably shows the limo stopping so it had to be “lost”.

 You believe that the Limo deliberately stopped so that the shooters could hit their mark and it was covered up?

No, that was sarcasm. Using basic physics and some realistic values for human reaction time, initial separation of the vehicles, their initial speeds, and maximum deceleration without passengers showing efforts to steady themselves, I don’t see how the secret service car could have avoided rear-ending the presidential limo or at least hitting Clint Hill. This assumes that Greer actually used the brakes which triggered the brake lights to signal he was slowing down, giving the driver of the SS car a heads up. If Greer just took his foot off the accelerator, the SS driver’s reaction time would be even longer. The SS car had to follow approximately 5 feet behind the limo to allow agents to quickly reach it on foot if necessary.Those car were going about 15 feet per second.

The limo stop believers never explain what advantage a limo stop would offer the shooters, why it wouldn’t look suspicious and why a driver would knowingly drive into an ambush where he was only a few feet from the target. Let alone demonstrating with 8mm film how such an alteration to remove a limo stop was possible.

There is a thread on the EF that is 20 or 30 pages long* about how the Z-film was edited to remove the limo stop. It never occurred to anyone to ask a few reasonable questions before going through all that work.

* It is now over 40 pages. On page 39 is a calculation of the estimated stopping distance of the limo, determined to be 0.72 meters. For the initial velocity used in the calculation, I determined this would require a deceleration of 0.8 m/s^2 or about 0.8 g. A deceleration over 1/3 g starts shifting unsecured items and passengers start to take active restraining actions. The SS agents standing on the running boards would have to hold on and would show obvious efforts to secure themselves. Nobody reported having to do this and it is not evident in any of the films.

lanceman wrote:No, that was sarcasm. Using basic physics and some realistic values for human reaction time, initial separation of the vehicles, their initial speeds, and maximum deceleration without passengers showing efforts to steady themselves, I don’t see how the secret service car could have avoided rear-ending the presidential limo or at least hitting Clint Hill. This assumes that Greer actually used the brakes which triggered the brake lights to signal he was slowing down, giving the driver of the SS car a heads up. If Greer just took his foot off the accelerator, the SS driver’s reaction time would be even longer. The SS car had to follow approximately 5 feet behind the limo to allow agents to quickly reach it on foot if necessary.Those car were going about 15 feet per second.

The limo stop believers never explain what advantage a limo stop would offer the shooters, why it wouldn’t look suspicious and why a driver would knowingly drive into an ambush where he was only a few feet from the target. Let alone demonstrating with 8mm film how such an alteration to remove a limo stop was possible.

There is a thread on the EF that is 20 or 30 pages long* about how the Z-film was edited to remove the limo stop. It never occurred to anyone to ask a few reasonable questions before going through all that work.

* It is now over 40 pages. On page 39 is a calculation of the estimated stopping distance of the limo, determined to be 0.72 meters. For the initial velocity used in the calculation, I determined this would require a deceleration of 0.8 m/s^2 or about 0.8 g. A deceleration over 1/3 g starts shifting unsecured items and passengers start to take active restraining actions. The SS agents standing on the running boards would have to hold on and would show obvious efforts to secure themselves. Nobody reported having to do this and it is not evident in any of the films.

The extant film has the limo traveling approx 7.2ft from z301-313 = 7.47mph
Why do you think the initial determined elevation for the extant z313 headshot was 418.35 and later changed to 418.48 which equals a 2.37ft horizontal distance change?
The calculation(look back at the brake stopping chart) was used by the WC in creating their BS, extant film altered scenario.
The WC can't tie the extant headshot back to the 6th floor window using the true ballistics involved as they had to use a JFK head height above the street of 3.27ft, instead of what should have been closer to 52.78"
Why that is so difficult to comprehend is beyond me.

Mr. WITT. Let me go back a minute. As I was moving forward I apparently had this umbrella in front of me for some few steps. Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements; I did not see this because of this thing in front of me, The next thing I saw after I saw the car coming down the street, down the hill to my left, the car was just about at a position like this [indicating] at this angle here. At this time there was the car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars. One car ran upon the President's car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things.
Mr. GENZMAN. What did you hear at that time? Did you hear voices?
Mr. WITT. I don't recall any voices at that particular time. After I finally became aware that something had happened, you know, something terrible had happened, I just sat down. I was standing on the retaining wall, and I just sat down, just right straight down, and apparently--I don't know if I had laid the umbrella down or dropped it or what I did. Nevertheless, I think it ended up on the sidewalk and I just sat there. Some of the things that I recall, one of the things I remember seeing while standing, there was a couple, I looked down to the right and there was a man and a woman, and they were covering some children, they were lying down and they were covering the children with their bodies and this may have caused me to sit down or I may have just sat down because I was stunned. Because there for a few minutes or for a few seconds at least I didn't seem to be able to collect my thoughts. Sometime later after the cars moved out, this is when all this activity in the cars stopping and the cars moved out, I recall a man sitting down to my right and he said something like: They done shot them folks. He repeated it two or three times but it was repetitious of him saying the same thing.

What was the stated uncertainty in measurements for the Robert West survey of Dealey Plaza? This reference gives an uncertainty of 0.08 feet for urban surveys.

[url=https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.nsps.us.com/resource/resmgr/Model_Standards/sectiong.pdf#:~:text=The required accuracy according to the Standards is,for Urban or 0.14 feet for Suburban Survey.]https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.nsps.us.com/resource/resmgr/Model_Standards/sectiong.pdf#:~:text=The%20required%20accuracy%20according%20to%20the%20Standards%20is,for%20Urban%20or%200.14%20feet%20for%20Suburban%20Survey.[/url]

I doubt that the uncertainties were smaller using 1960s technology.The reason I ask is that you express your calculation results to a higher degree of precision than would seem warranted by physical measurements. An example being that you determine a limo speed from an “approximate” distance of 7.2 feet using the elapsed time of particular Zapruder frames. Yet you express this result (7.47 mph) to a higher precision than warranted from the input measurements. 

Setting aside the unreliability of eyewitness recall of events that happened rapidly under traumatic circumstances (in Umbrella Man’s case 15 years after the fact), if Witt heard screeching tires, where are the tire marks?

I don’t dispute the stopping distance equation. But the results an equation gives are only as good as the values entered into the equation.

If Greer only took his foot off the accelerator, the limo could not have stopped as 1) the limo was going down a slight grade and 2) an automatic transmission will maintain a minimum speed while in “Drive” unless there is breaking applied as is done at a stop light. But then this conflicts with Witt’s statement of a screeching stop. Which is correct?

Kinney was paying close attention to the back of the presidential limo as would be necessary to maintain the required 5 feet separation while going at speeds around 10 miles per hour. 

“The first shot was fired, I glanced from the taillight of SS 100X, at the president and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left.”

https://www.jfk-online.com/kinney.html

So Kinney could not have been looking at his speedometer or the surroundings to accurately gauge his speed.

A speed of 3-5 miles per hour is about the minimum speed a motorcycle can remain stable without the rider placing a foot on the street. While some of the motorcycle officers were concerned about ultimately having to do this, that was not until a few seconds later and I don’t recall any actually saying they did so other than the one who actually stopped to run up the knoll.

lanceman wrote:What was the stated uncertainty in measurements for the Robert West survey of Dealey Plaza? This reference gives an uncertainty of 0.08 feet for urban surveys.

[url=https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.nsps.us.com/resource/resmgr/Model_Standards/sectiong.pdf#:~:text=The required accuracy according to the Standards is,for Urban or 0.14 feet for Suburban Survey.]https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.nsps.us.com/resource/resmgr/Model_Standards/sectiong.pdf#:~:text=The%20required%20accuracy%20according%20to%20the%20Standards%20is,for%20Urban%20or%200.14%20feet%20for%20Suburban%20Survey.[/url]

I doubt that the uncertainties were smaller using 1960s technology.The reason I ask is that you express your calculation results to a higher degree of precision than would seem warranted by physical measurements. An example being that you determine a limo speed from an “approximate” distance of 7.2 feet using the elapsed time of particular Zapruder frames. Yet you express this result (7.47 mph) to a higher precision than warranted from the input measurements. 

Setting aside the unreliability of eyewitness recall of events that happened rapidly under traumatic circumstances (in Umbrella Man’s case 15 years after the fact), if Witt heard screeching tires, where are the tire marks?

I don’t dispute the stopping distance equation. But the results an equation gives are only as good as the values entered into the equation.

If Greer only took his foot off the accelerator, the limo could not have stopped as 1) the limo was going down a slight grade and 2) an automatic transmission will maintain a minimum speed while in “Drive” unless there is breaking applied as is done at a stop light. But then this conflicts with Witt’s statement of a screeching stop. Which is correct?

Kinney was paying close attention to the back of the presidential limo as would be necessary to maintain the required 5 feet separation while going at speeds around 10 miles per hour. 

“The first shot was fired, I glanced from the taillight of SS 100X, at the president and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left.”

https://www.jfk-online.com/kinney.html

So Kinney could not have been looking at his speedometer or the surroundings to accurately gauge his speed.

A speed of 3-5 miles per hour is about the minimum speed a motorcycle can remain stable without the rider placing a foot on the street. While some of the motorcycle officers were concerned about ultimately having to do this, that was not until a few seconds later and I don’t recall any actually saying they did so other than the one who actually stopped to run up the knoll.

I plotted JFK's position within the limo from z301-z313 using multiple plats and arrived at 7.47mph.  If you want a comparison, Itek in their study came up with 7.6mph for the same span.

The reason I stick with 7.47mph(not the only place that this speed is of great significance) is because it is twice as fast as 3.74mph.

Where can you find that speed, look no further than the unofficial CE884 document first entries of z168-z171, while the official CE884 document has it moving at 2.24mph, starting at the same physical location using z161-z166 instead.

Now, if you also believe that the limo was going 3.74mph at z168 according to the extant film, all the more power to you.

But, if you realize that the removal of frames in a sequence(just one aspect of it) could yield the same results as doubling the speed of a slowing limo, it might help you gain a better understanding of what was being used to sync/perfect the official story.

And, since Kinney, the actual driver of the QueenMary, tells you between 3/5mph, 3.74 is an accurate part of the math used to determine the final masterpiece.

As you expressed, the output is only as good as the input used, which is why I use the WC's own data to disqualify their official story.

Your initial concern was why did the QueenMary not run into the limo if the limo braked/hard. At 3.74mph or less, I'm fairly certain it would have moved closer, but not enough speed with a 5/6ft difference between cars for Kinney to actually hit the limo.

As Witt stated, "One car ran upon the President's car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things."

Btw, Witt doesn't say it was the limo that caused the screeching(moving at 3.74mph or slower), but since the QueenMary was one of the followup vehicles, it is more likely that it or others behind it were the source.

Lastly, I always recommend people pay close attention to what Shaneyfelt says, as this gives much needed insight when trying to connect dots.

Here's an example for you: 11.2mph - 7.47mph =

barto wrote:Nix Records with thanks to Malcolm Blunt.



Scans by me.

Thank you for the Nix info.

One aspect not among that info is:

When Itek did their study of the Nix film, they started 28 frames back and did their analysis on every four frames leading up to extant z313. There is no other copy of the Nix film available that starts at the equivalent of Z285.

Not Gayle's, nor Groden's or Myer's. They all start at z291

Since the Nix/Z camera's were officially tested at approx the same frame rate 18.5/18.3, it's quite obvious that Itek was studying a different version of the Nix film than we are privy to.

This thread is taking a tangent from the original topic (my fault). I propose moving the subsequent comments specifically addressing issues relating to the limo stopping/slowing down to the thread “The Limo Did Not Stop”.

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2576-the-limo-did-not-stop

Any objections?