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Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

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Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:01 am

Lifton to Stu Wexler on Oswald:
I am somewhat surprised that you would cite Oswald's lack of a "college education." (Shades of elitism there, no?)   IMHO: that is really quite beside the point. Oswald was an auto-didact--surely you are aware of that.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20277&p=275604

Lifton to me:
Also, I looked up you bio. You're apparently a ninth grade drop-out with a highly over-inflated view of himself.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18558&p=259641



Can't wait for his book. pig

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Robert Charles-Dunne on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:09 am

Cheap debating trick to demean the one asking him questions he cannot answer.  And I do mean "cheap."

Stranger still is his insistence that LHO was a witting CIA agent desperate to defect to Moscow, but Priscilla didn't use on CIA's behalf her media soapbox to be of assistance in CIA's plot to have him defect.  Lifton is able to parse these, how exactly.....?    Must be his college degree.

He also assumes that Oswald was intended to fool the Soviets.  Do we have any basis to think this?  Or do we just know that he was sent, in so precipitous a hurry that they needed the phony 'hardship' discharge, for a purpose?  Apparently an urgent purpose, but not necessarily one that required the Soviets to embrace him.

Some times college educated fellows just assume more than the record will substantiate, while deriding high school dropouts for the temerity to ask questions they cannot answer.


Last edited by Robert Charles-Dunne on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:15 am

As some know, I believe Oswald had Asperger's.

Most Asperger's would cite being autodidactic as one of the strengths of the syndrome.

Here is a list of symptoms - including being autodidactic with inability to follow teachers.
(look under "diagnosis: subtle core symptoms")
http://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/physics/internal/staff/Aspergers_Syndrome_jras.pdf

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:57 am

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:Cheap debating trick to demean the one asking him questions he cannot answer.  And I do mean "cheap."


Stranger still is his insistence that LHO was a witting CIA agent desperate to defect to Moscow, but Priscilla didn't use on CIA's behalf her media soapbox to be of assistance in CIA's plot to have him defect.  Lifton is able to parse these, how exactly.....?    Must be his college degree.


He also assumes that Oswald was intended to fool the Soviets.  Do we have any basis to think this?  Or do we just know that he was sent, in so precipitous a hurry that they needed the phony 'hardship' discharge, for a purpose?  Apparently an urgent purpose, but not necessarily one that required the Soviets to embrace him.


Some times college educated fellows just assume more than the record will substantiate, while deriding high school dropouts for the temerity to ask questions they cannot answer.
In the event he admits the cheap debate tactic, I will of course, drop the hypocrite label I have appended to him.


I have highlighted the "money shot". 


I for one, am eager to see him explain the urgency. 

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:01 am

Lifton is a fucking asshole. Greg is 100 times the researcher that a narcissist like Lifton could ever hope to be. FWIW Greg, I agree that Oswald had Aspergers. I think that's why he appeared to be "smirking" in the press conferences following his arrest. He had trouble co-ordinating his facial expressions.

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:47 am

Hasan Ysuf wrote:Lifton is a fucking asshole. Greg is 100 times the researcher that a narcissist like Lifton could ever hope to be. FWIW Greg, I agree that Oswald had Aspergers. I think that's why he appeared to be "smirking" in the press conferences following his arrest. He had trouble co-ordinating his facial expressions.

Thanks for vote of confidence, Hasan. DSL's relative success is a testament to the effect of sounding authoritative. 

There are many many clues spread throughout the records, and some not in the records, which go to understanding Oswald. One example of the latter is Ruth Peters (nee Kleopfer) who told me LHO could not look her in the eye, but was also seemingly flirting with her even though his wife was in the next room. Ruth was reprimanded on the way home by her mother for calling him a "nut case". 

His accent that no one gets - pure Asperger's.

His ability with foreign language - pure Asperger's.

His ability to memorize the Marine manual - pure Asperger's.

His seeming indifference toward fellow worker's - pure Asperger's.

His ability to get along with very disparate types for reasons neither he nor anyone else will ever be able to explain, while not liking or getting along with others for reasons neither he nor anyone else will ever be able to explain - pure Asperger's

His ability to remain unfazed by social isolation - pure Asperger's

And ... I could give many many more examples...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:56 am

You're welcome, Greg. You've made a very compelling case that Oswald had Aspergers. I think that his interest in how things worked is also relevant. As for Lifton, he has narcissistic personality disorder, pure and simple.

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 18 Jun 2013, 7:13 pm

Greg, this might be a stupid question, but do you suppose Oswald's having Aspergers had anything to do with his being chosen to go the Soviet Union?

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Tue 18 Jun 2013, 10:11 pm

Hasan,

Asperger's was not recognised in the US until the '70s or '80s. I think he was chosen because of certain traits attributable to the syndrome, though - as well as having shown potential as a courier in the past. 

He had:
Ability to learn the language quickly.
ability to memorize data.
single-mindedness.
Ability to withstand solitude.
Virtual inability to be hypnotized.

All of those (except the last) are Asperger traits that he was known to possess. The last is listed on presumption that he did in fact have Asperger's. Easiest people to hypnotize are Hysterics - hardest are Aspies.  

The above traits aside, most important: his profile fit the "potential defector" profile put together from the study of POW defectors and collaborators in Korea.

What was needed: that he be in the Reserves - and that he get there within a specific time-frame (thus the early out).

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 7:12 am

Thanks for the feedback, Greg. Speaking of Aspergers, I'm not sure if you'll agree with me, but I strongly suspect DVP is autistic.

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 8:16 am

Hasan Yusuf wrote:Thanks for the feedback, Greg. Speaking of Aspergers, I'm not sure if you'll agree with me, but I strongly suspect DVP is autistic.

LOL! I think it's a bit disturbing that you've even given that any thought, Hasan!

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 8:25 am

Sorry, Greg. I only said that because you undoubtedly have a great deal of knowledge concerning Aspergers, as shown above, and I've noticed that DVP exhibits some signs of it, such as his claim of having practically no life, his constantly repeating his arguments, and his intense interest in the assassination, and preoccupation with Oswald's guilt. Plus, his constantly lashing out at those who disagree with him. I apologize if I've got this figured all wrong, as I'm not really an expert on Aspergers.

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by greg parker on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 10:12 am

Hasan,

no - I'm the one needing to apologise. Was to trying to make light of it - but that's always hit and miss in text.

You could be right. Missed where he said that about his own life.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 10:29 am

All good, Greg. No worries.

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Re: Is Lifton the ultimate hypocrite?

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