Oswald Leaving the TSBD

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1106

A response to John Armstrong's fictional account of two Oswald's leaving the Texas School Book Depository.

CHAPTER III. NAYSAYERS by John Armstrong with my response in (BOLD)

There are some people who believe the bus ride never happened, (LIKE THOSE WHOM HAVE ACTUALLY STUDIED THE EVIDENCE THOROUGHLY) and that the entire story of the bus ride was fabricated. (NO ONLY THE PARTS THAT ARE FACTUALLY WRONG, OSWALD DID SAY HE TOOK A BUS, ITS IN BOOKOUTS NOTES, DOESN’T MAKE IT TRUE, AND WHICH BUS AND WHEN WAS NOT ASKED, WHY? DID HE TAKE A BUS FROM HIS APARTMENT TO THE THEATER?) In order to reach their conclusions these people focus attention on witnesses whose memories are less than perfect, and then continuously criticize these people in an attempt to destroy their credibility. (OKAY JOHN, PROOF THAT ANYONE WAS CRITICIZED FOR POOR MEMORY SHOULD BE EASY TO DISPLAY, WHY DON'T YOU PUT UP SOME EXAMPLES) These people often misread witness statements and testimony. They criticize documents without thoroughly understanding what they are reading. Their cited "sources" are often not sources at all (AGAIN YOU LACK CREDIBILITY AND FAIL TO PROVIDE A SINGLE EXAMPLE, AS THIS IS A STRAW MAN, AS IS THE BAD MEMORY PLOY YOU TRY TO USE) and, in some cases, are non-existent (LIKE EVIDENCE FOR TWO OSWALDS?). They (naysayers) do this in an attempt to develop and promote their own preconceived ideas and theories. (LIKE A SILLY CLAIM FOR TWO OSWALDS?) However, when their work is closely scrutinized, it becomes apparent that many of these naysayers have not done their homework. (LIKE ARMSTRONG WHOS MASSIVE CLAIMS FOR TWO OSWALDS HAS BEEN REDUCED TO A BOAT TRIP AND A BRONX ZOO PHOTO) For example: Naysayers criticize bus driver Cecil McWatters because he could not positively identify Oswald as a passenger on his bus. (NO WE APPLAUD CECIL FOR HIS REALIZATION THAT HE THOUGHT MILTON WAS OSWALD) Naysayers ignore McWatters' description of this one passenger and his clothing—a man who rode in the middle of the bus for only 4 minutes. (A MAN WHOM DID NOT GET A BUS TRANSFER?) These naysayers forget there were perhaps dozens of bus passengers on several of McWatters' bus runs on 11/22/63, yet they endlessly criticize him for not remembering details about this one passenger. (BUT NOT DOZENS ON THE RUN FROM THE THEATER DOWNTOWN TO OAK CLIFF, MILTON CLAIMS 15 PASSENGERS, MILTON SAID HE NEVER GOT A GOOD LOOK AND ONLY THOUGHT IT WAS OSWALD BECAUSE CECIL TOLD HIM THAT IS WHOM MCWATTERS THOUGHT HE HAD ON THE BUS DUE TO THE DPD INTEROGATING HIM AND PRESENTING HIM WITH A TRANSFER FROM THE MIDDLE OF A BOOK OF TRANSFERS AND NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE TWO TRANSFERS HE DID GIVE OUT OR HOW CECIL USED THOSE BOOKLETS, HE LATER EXPLAINS MILTON WAS WHOM CECIL THOUGHT WAS OSWALD AT THE LINEUP SINCE HE WAS SMALLER THAN THE COPS USED IN THE LINE-UP / SHOW-UP) Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Milton Jones, who remembered Oswald as a passenger and remembered his light blue jacket and grey pants. Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald sat behind Jones, and only saw Oswald for a few seconds when he boarded and got off McWatters' bus. (A MAN WHOM WAS NOT OSWALD AND DID NOT GET A BUS TRANSFER, MILTONS MEMORY IS JUST FINE, OSWALD DID NOT HAVE A LIGHT BLUE JACKET, HE OWNED A DARK BLUE JACKET AND A LIGHT GREY JACKET) Naysayers criticize the testimony and memory of Oswald's former landlady Mary Bledsoe, who described Oswalds dark brown shirt, the hole in the sleeve, (NO SHE SAID HOLES IN BOTH SLEEVES, IT TOOK THE FBI BRINGING HER THE SHIRT TO SECURE THE TRUE SHIRT IN HER MEMORY, TO WHICH SHE SAID SHE DID NOT RECOGNIZE) and the missing buttons very well (AS ANYONE WHOM WAS SHOWN THE SHIRT BY THE FBI COULD TELL TOO, AND SHE DID ADMIT TO WATCHING TV). Naysayers believe that Oswald changed his shirt at his rooming house before he went to the theater, relying on the reports of Kelley and Bookhout. (TRY BOOKOUTS NOTES) Therefore, naysayers criticize Bledsoe because her description of the shirt matches the shirt Oswald was wearing at the theater when arrested.(AND MATCHES THE SHIRT SHE WOULD SEE ON TELEVISION) Naysayers criticize Mary Bledsoe and say that she did not see Oswald on the bus, because she saw “only a glimpse of him.” Naysayers forget that Oswald rented one of 3 bedrooms in her home and she saw him on a daily basis only 5 weeks before the assassination. He talked on the telephone constantly and interrupted her naps. Mrs. Bledsoe remembered that Oswald often spoke in a foreign language on her telephone. She was very familiar with Oswald's face and physique. Mrs. Bledsoe only needed a “glimpse” of Harvey Oswald to recognize him instantly.(SHE CLAIMED SHE DID NOT TAKE A LONG LOOK AT THE PASSENGER AND THE PASSENGER WAS WILD LOOKING, SORRY THE DESCRIPTION IS NOT THAT OF LEE OSWALD, PERHAPS AFTER THE BEATING AND ARREST BY POLICE AS SEEN ON TELEVISION, NO EVIDENCE PROVES OSWALD LIVED AT BLEDSOE'S, GOT THAT CALENDAR PAGE JOHN?) Naysayers constantly criticize Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley for their less than perfect memories.(ITS NOT THEIR MEMORIES IN DOUBT, ITS THEIR STATEMENTS AND EVIDENCE WHICH REFUTES THEIR STATEMENTS) But Oswald was only in their presence for a mere 4-6 minutes. Naysayers conveniently forget that Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley all remembered that Oswald wore light colored grey pants on the bus and taxi. Oswald told Capt. Fritz that he had changed his dirty trousers (light colored grey pants) in his room. (BOOKOUT HAD BRITCHES WRITTEN WAS THAT A TERM TO DESCRIBE CLOTHES OR JUST PANTS? BOOKOUT REPORT CLAIMS BOTH ARTICLES OF CLOTHING WERE CHANGED) When arrested, Oswald was wearing very dark pants. His dirty light colored grey pants were later found in his room by police.(AND A DIRTY WORK SHIRT IN THE SAME DRAWER, DOES ONE DISPROVE THE OTHER?) How could Bledsoe and Jones and Whaley have known Oswald was wearing light grey pants (MATCHING SHIRT AND PANTS, WHALEY'S PASSENGER WAS WEARING A KHAKI BLUE UNIFORM) on the bus/taxi unless they had personally seen him? (ARE YOU SAYING HE DID GO CHANGE? ABOVE YOU WERE CLAIMING NO SHIRT CHANGE BUT NOW ONLY PANTS, THAT SEEMS TO BE HAVING YOUR CAKE AND EATING IT TOO, JUST AS YOU HAVE WITH BLEDSOE SEEING THROUGH THAT JACKET, YOU KEEP GETTING CONFUSED AS TO HIS ATTIRE AT ANY ONE TIME AND WHAT COULD BE SEEN THROUGH JACKET LIKE HOLES IN SHIRT ELBOWS) Naysayers claim that McWatters never gave Oswald a bus transfer. If McWatters never gave bus transfer #004459 to Oswald, then perhaps naysayers would care to explain why Dallas Police called the Dallas Transit Division Superintendent. (BOOKOUTS NOTES CLAIM OSWALD TOOK A BUS AT SOME TIME AFTER HE WAS LET GO FROM WORK) Explain how Mr. F.F. Yates was able to immediately identify McWatters as the driver who issued the bus transfer. (BECAUSE DRIVERS ALL WORKED AT THE SAME COMPANY, CAB AND BUSES, THIS IS WHERE THE DPD WENT TO COLLECT A CABBIE WHOM WITNESSED THE TIPPIT MURDER AND WERE DIRECTED TO A DRIVER WHOM CLAIMED HE HAD A PASSENGER LIKE OSWALD, TURNS OUT THAT PASSENGER WAS MILTON JONES) Do the naysayers expect us to believe that Dallas Transit supervisors were coerced into going along with such a charade? (IS THAT WHAT HAPPENED?) Naysayers ignore the fact that transfer #004459 came from McWatters' transfer book.(A BOOKLET HE ONLY GAVE OUT TWO TRANSFERS YET THE NUMERICAL SEQUENCE IS WRONG FOR IT TO BE EITHER OF THOSE TWO TRANSFERS) They ignore McWatters' testimony that he remembered giving a transfer to Oswald and a transfer to a blond haired lady when both were getting off the bus (MILTON SAID LADY EXITED THE REAR AND WOULD HAVE NO USE FOR A TRANSFER, MAN WAS SAID TO HAVE NOT GOTTEN A TRANSFER) . Naysayers ignore Mary Bledsoe's testimony that she spoke briefly with the blond lady when McWatters gave her a transfer. (NOT ACCORDING TO CECIL) How would Oswald know about a blond-haired lady on McWatters bus unless he had ridden on that bus?(OSWALD DID NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY BLONDE LADY WITH A SUITCASE WHO HAD TO CATCH A TRAIN, SO WHERE IS THE LADY, WHOM WAS SHE JOHN? WHERE ARE OSWALDS WORDS SAYING WHAT YOU CLAIM?, MILTON WAS CONFIRMED BY CECIL TO BE ON HIS BUS, CECIL DID NOT CONFIRM EITHER OSWALD OR BLEDSOE AS TO BEING ON HIS BUS) Naysayers claim the bus transfer at the National Archives does not have a crease in the middle, so it was never folded and put in Oswald's pocket. Naysayers ignore the fact that National Archivist Steve Hamilton confirmed that the bus transfer has a crease in the middle, indicating that it had at one time been folded. (A FOLD IS NOT PROVEN BY ANY IMAGES OF TRANSFER, A FOLD DOES NOT PLACE IT IN OSWALDS POCKET, THE THIN EASILY CREASED AND WRINKLED TRANSFER IS PRISTINE, HOW DO YOU KNOW OSWALD FOLDED THE TRANSFER OO4459 DO YOU HAVE HIS FINGER PRINTS ON IT JOHN? IF NOT WHY NO PRINTS? THEY PRINTED CARDS AND PHOTOS IN HIS WALLET, YET NOT THE TRANSFER IN HIS SUPPOSED POCKET...I TOO CONTACTED THE ARCHIVES AND THEY SAID THERE IS NO DEFECT IN THAT TRANSFER, A FOLD IN A PLANTED TRANSFER SEEMS TO BE YOUR ONLY HOPE, THAT WOULD HARDLY PIN IT TO OSWALD, YET A PRISTINE TRANSFER IS EXCULPATORY TO OSWALD)


NEXT WHALEY AND THE BRACELET

--



“Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition



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October 18, 2015 at 1:00 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1106

WHALEY'S CAB, AGAIN MY RESPONSES TO JOHN ARMSTRONG ARE IN (BOLD)

Oswald told Capt. Fritz and his interrogators about a blond woman asking William Whaley to call her a taxi, (OH THERE IS YOUR BLONDE LADY, EXCEPT OSWALD NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SUCH AN INCIDENT, THE CAB HAD LEFT BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION, LEFT FOR OAK CLIFF TO AN ADDRESS 5 BLOCKS FROM OSWALDS SUPPOSED ROOMING HOUSE) just after Oswald got into Whaley's taxi. William Whaley told the WC the same story--that just after Oswald got into the front seat of his taxi, a blond lady asked him to call a taxi for her. How is it possible that Oswald's and Whaley's stories match perfectly, unless this incident actually occurred and was remembered by both Oswald and Whaley? (NEVER HAPPENED AND YOUR RESEARCH SHOWS YOU ARE EASILY FOOLED) Naysayers conveniently forget that Oswald's reference to a blond-haired lady, which he told to Capt. Fritz and numerous law enforcement officers during interrogations, was also remembered by McWatters, Bledsoe, and Jones. (CARE TO POINT THAT OUT IN BOOKOUTS NOTES) Naysayers criticize William Whaley for saying that Oswald had a silverlike strip on his shirt. Naysayers ignore and intentionally overlook that Whaley also said Oswald was wearing a brown long-sleeve shirt and a t-shirt with a soiled collar. (AND HE HAD HIM WEARING TWO JACKETS, ONE BLUE AND ONE GREY, WHALEY'S CAB HAD LEFT THE BUS STATION BEFORE OSWALD COULD EVER HAD MADE IT TO THE TAXI STAND, ROUND PEG MEET SQUARE HOLE, PLUS WHALEY SAID THE GUY LOOKED LIKE HE HAD SLEPT IN THOSE CLOTHES) Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he said Oswald's bracelet was a “stretchband,” when it looks like a “chain link” bracelet. (NOPE, IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT IT IS A STRETCH BAND, WHALEY WATCHED TV, OSWALD WAS STILL WEARING THE BRACELET, SO DID CECIL, WHALEY HAD A HOBBY OF MAKING WATCHBANDS LIKE THE BRACELETS, "Mr. WHALEY. I just described the bracelet as a shiny bracelet." ARE NOT ALL METAL BRACELETS SHINY?, FBI SAID HE DESCRIBED IT AS 'HEAVY' WHICH WHALEY DENIED HE WOULD KNOW WITHOUT HANDLING IT, SO IT APPEARS HE WAS SHOWN THE ID BRACELET IN MUCH THE SAME WAY BLEDSOE WAS SHOWN THE SHIRT) But naysayers, once again, should do their homework. Oswald's bracelet is listed on a DPD property form, found in Box 1, folder 8, item 1 at the Dallas Archives. It is identified as "One I.D. stretch band with 'Lee' inscribed.” Naysayers also fail so explain how Whaley could have known that Oswald was wearing any kind of silver-colored bracelet, unless he saw the bracelet himself on Oswald's left arm while riding in his taxi.(WRONG SEE ABOVE, AND SEE TELEVISION COVERAGE AND NEWSPAPER PICTURES)



("There are at least two published photos of Oswald giving this gesture. The most famous photograph showing Oswald’s clenched-fist salute was first identified by Jean Davison in her excellent book about Oswald’s motives, Oswald’s Game (1983). The photo was taken by an AP photographer.)



(The second photo has been overlooked by most researchers and appeared in the UPI/American Heritage book Four Days (1964). The caption for the UPI photo reads, “. . . Oswald shakes his fist at reporters inside police headquarters. . .,” )



(And the Bill Winfrey photo, )

("Bill's Oswald photo is one of the most often shown in newspapers, books and magazines, for it accurately depicts the defiant demeanor Oswald maintained through his 45 hours in custody," Mr. Mack said.)

(And the bus just keeps coming to roll over Armstrong...)




(And this one taken by Dallas Times Herald and United Press International staff photographer Darryl Heikes)

(ALL SHOW THE BRACELET WHICH ANYONE WHOM OWNED, MADE, OR EXAMINED ONE WOULD KNOW WHAT IT WAS THEY WERE SEEING OR HANDLING.)







Naysayers criticize William Whaley when he said that he drove Oswald to Neches and Beckley,(HE MEANT NEELY) because this address is non-existent. Naysayers conveniently fail to remember that Oswald instructed Whaley to drive to the 500 block of N. Beckley. As Whaley was driving south on N. Beckley, Oswald said “this will do.” Whaley then stopped randomly in the street, at an unknown address, and Oswald got out of his taxi. Whaley wrote “500 N. Beckley” in his manifest because that is what he remembered Oswald told him when he first got into his taxi.(700 BLOCK IS WHERE THE UNIFORMED RIDER WENT TO AND GOT OUT CROSSED STREET AND CONTINUES SOUTH NOT NORTH TOWARDS SUPPOSED ROOMING HOUSE, SEEMS THAT RIDER WHOM LOOKED LIKE HE HAD SLEPT IN HIS UNIFORM ONLY HAD A DOLLAR, OSWALD HAD 13+ DOLLARS, EVEN IF SAID RIDER WAS OSWALD HE APPEARS TO OF HEADED TOWARDS THE THEATER NOT SOME SUPPOSED ROOMING HOUSE, SO WHERE WOULD THOSE TWO JACKETS AND UNIFORM GO?) Naysayers criticize William Whaley because he wrote down the time of Oswald's taxi ride incorrectly in his manifest. Naysayers conveniently forget that Whaley explained to the WC that he always wrote the times of his taxi rides in 15-minute intervals. (BUT HE DID NOT WRITE IN 15 MINUTE INTERVALS, YOU NEED TO RE-EXAMINE THE MANIFEST AS YOU ARE BLANTANTLY WRONG AS IT HAS TIMES LISTED IN 5 MINUTE INTERVALS) And said that he often wrote two, three, or four of these entries in his manifest at the same time, long after the taxi rides. (BUT HE DID NOT WAIT TO LIST THIS TRIP) Whaley said that when he got back to the Union Terminal he made an entry of the trip (TO N BECKLEY NOT A ROOMING HOUSE) on his manifest for the day.(HE WRITES DOWN TIMES FOR TRIPS WITHIN A FEW MINUTES IE 5 MINUTE INTERVALS, THE MANIFEST PROVES IT, AND THE TAXI HAD LEFT BEFORE THE ASSASSINATION, EVEN GIVING YOU THAT FIFTEEN MINUTE MARGIN, AND HE DID NOT WAIT TO WRITE DOWN THE TRIP) Naysayers criticize taxi driver William Whaley for naming the number 3 man in the police lineup as Oswald, when he was identified by the police as the number 2 man. Naysayers ignore the explanation that Whaley gave to the WC. Whaley simply said that LHO, walking from left to the right, was the 3rd man brought out for the lineup. From left to right, according to the police, Oswald was the #2 man. (NUMBERS WERE DIRECTLY OVER THE LINE-UP INDIVIDUALS HEADS AND CORESPOND TO THEIR POSITION, YOUR WANTING WHALEY TO RETROACTIVELY CHANGE HIS MIND, 1 IS 1 AND 2 IS 2 AND SO ON HE CHOOSE #3 WHOM WAS NOT OSWALD AS OSWALD WAS NOT IN HIS CAB, SEEMS HE SHOULD REMEMBERED THAT BRACELET OSWALD WAS STILL WEARING AT DPD)

NEXT PART THREE, THE FINALE,








--



“Is everything a conspiracy? No. Only the important stuff.” Jeff Wells, Rigorous Intuition



PM is THE litmus test of intellectual integrity for researching this case.
Those who fall back on the fuxxy picture defense are not of a caliber to understand the ins-and-outs of this case. ~ Terry Martin




October 18, 2015 at 1:15 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

END OF THE LINE FOR ARMSTRONG,

Naysayers criticize and criticize these witnesses over the smallest of details(AS IF SMALL DETAILS ARE UNIMPORTANT, WHY ARE YOU ARE USING TINY DETAILS?), in an attempt to “prove” that the bus and taxi ride never happened. This is the extent of their “research.” (WRONG AGAIN AS USUAL) Naysayers ignore the fact that Capt. Fritz and many law enforcement officers heard Oswald say that he rode a bus, got a bus transfer, got into a taxi, offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and paid an 85 cent fare. The facts are that Bledsoe and Jones testified that Oswald was on McWatters bus, transfer #004459 was found in Oswald's shirt pocket, (HOURS LATER WHEN THE COPS NEEDED IT FOUND) Whaley testified that Oswald rode in his taxi, that Oswald offered to let a blond-haired lady have his taxi, and that Oswald paid 95 cents in taxi fare. Witness testimony and evidence match pretty well with what Oswald told his interrogators.(DALLAS COPS WERE CORRUPT AND THE INNOCENCE PROJECT HAS SHOWN THIS TO BE FACT 19 TIMES OVER, AND THAT IS JUST THE CASES WITH EXTANT DNA EVIDENCE, YOUR SO GULLIBLE JOHN I HAVE AN OCEAN FRONT PROERTY FOR YOU IN AZ, FOR THAT YOU CAN KEEP THE NICKLE AND DIME TALK TO YOURSELF, EVER HEAR OF A COERCED WITNESS?) Naysayers criticize, criticize, and criticize these witnesses for not having perfect memories. (NO FOR CHANGING THEIR STORIES, GET ONE THING CORRECT AT LEAST JOHN) Yet these naysayers never produce a single document or a single witness by which to prove the taxi and bus ride never happened (THE BUS AND CAB DRIVER ARE THE BEST EVIDENCE IT NEVER HAPPENED, WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENT PROVES SOMEONE DID NOT TAKE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION? SILLY CLAIM AND REQUIREMENT). Nor can they offer an ounce of PROOF as to what they think COULD HAVE happened—only speculation, fantasies, and daydreams.(UNLIKE THE HARVEY AND LEE FANTASY? POT CALLING KETTLE BLACK I SEE, LEE AND HARVEY ARE THE SAME PERSON JOHN, ONE LEE HARVEY OSWALD, I SUPPOSE YOU'LL WANT A DOCUMENT TO PROVE THAT, ITS CALLED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE GENIUS) To these naysayers, I would ask them to simply identify the person or persons who came up with the idea to fabricate a story in which the bus and taxi rider never happened.(EASY THE DPD, NEXT QUESTION) I would ask them to name the person or persons who had the knowledge, presence, and ability to fabricate such a hoax within hours of Oswald's arrest..(SEE ABOVE) I would remind naysayers that Oswald himself said during his first and second interrogations that he rode a bus, long before the police knew about Cecil McWatters. And Oswald made these statements in the presence of Capt. Fritz, James Hosty, Thomas Kelley, James Bookhout, and numerous officers. These people took notes, made reports, and/or gave WC testimony about statements made by Oswald. These naysayers would have us believe that a person or persons unknown convinced all of these people, SS agents Kelley, Nully and Forrest: FBI agents Hosty, Grant, Odum and Bookout; US Marshall Nash; Capt Fritz, DPD officers Sims, Boyd, Turner, Hall, Dhority, Owens, Leavelle, and Senkel, taxi driver Whaley, bus driver McWatters, bus passengers Bledsoe and Jones, bus and taxi officials, to lie and go along with their fabricated story. (MUCH LIKE 19 OTHER CASES PROVE THE DPD WAS COMPLICIATE IN RAILROADING INNOCENT INDIVIDUALS IN 1960'S DALLAS) But no matter how much evidence researchers produce to prove that Oswald rode on a bus and in a taxi on 11/22/63, we can be sure that irresponsible naysayers can and will find the most trivial, superficial, and inconsequential reasons to continue their criticism.(LIKE THE RIFLE, PISTOL AND RECEIPTS FOR WHICH HE NEVER OWNED AND NEVER COMPLETED THE TRANSACTIONS BUT IN YOUR MIND DOCUMENTS SAY HE DID?, BETTER TALK TO DAVID JOSEPHS AGAIN AND GET YOUR STORIES STRAIGHT)
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?14608-Interesting-Thread-at-ROKC-re-Oswald-s-Bus-Transfer#.ViH1gGt5J9Y
AND
https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/printthread.php?t=10739&pp=40

Rather than nit-pick the statements and memories of witnesses who saw “Lee Harvey Oswald” riding in either the station wagon, bus, or taxi, naysayers should study the overwhelming amount of evidence that shows there were two “Lee Harvey Oswalds” who looked very similar. At 12:40 PM LEE Oswald got into a Nash Rambler station wagon in front of the TSBD, while HARVEY Oswald was getting into McWatters' city bus at Elm and Griffin.(CECIL'S FIRST DAY STATEMENT SAYS LOWER ELM NEAR HOUSTON, SORRY CECIL DEFEATS YOUR CLAIMS) An hour and a half later Harvey Oswald was arrested (THANKS I HAVE A HARD TIME KNOWING WHICH LEE OR IS IT HARVEY DID WHAT...PLEASE ITS THE SAME PERSON, ONLY YOU HAVE ERRONEOUSLY MADE HIM INTO TWO OSWALDS TO PUSH AN UNFOUNDED CLAIM BASED ON BASED ON FAULTY PHOTO ANALYSIS AND FURTHERED BY BAD ACCOUNTING BY THE US MILITARY, THOSE ARE CALLED MISTAKES, MUCH LIKE ANYONE WHOM BUYS YOUR BOOK WILL UNDERSTAND A MISTAKE), handcuffed, and sitting in a room at Dallas Police headquarters. When Capt Fritz pointed to Roger Craig and said to Oswald, “This man saw you leave....what about the car?” Oswald replied, “that station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine.....” Oswald dared not say any more, but his statement about Mrs. Paine and a station wagon shows that he knew a lot more than what he told his interrogators.(HOW DID THESE TWO DOPLEGANGERS KEEP JUMPING ABOUT THE GLOBE, BY TELEPORTER?, GOT A SINGLE FINGER PRINT THAT SHOWS LEE VS HARVEY, IF THEY BOTH HAD BEEN IN THE SERVICE AND ARRESTED THEY WOULD HAVE DIFFERENT FINGERPRINT CARDS WANT TO PRODUCE EVIDENCE OF TWO INDIVIDUALS RATHER THAN CIRCUMSTANTIAL CLAIMS, JOHN NEVER SHOWS US HARVEY(?), ONCE LEE(?) IS MURDERED, AGAIN OR ANY PROOF HE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE)



Final comment,

John Armstrong needs to have things both ways to fit a scenario which has two Oswald's, this is what researchers call disinformation.

If John had any real evidence he would of presented that to a DA or Judge and called for justice to be done.

John will never re-open the case against Oswald or solve anything with a fictional representation of actual events and documents.

Aloha John!!!

Signed the ONE and ONLY Ed Ledoux
October 18, 2015 at 1:24 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Ed, you have made some telling blows in that rebuttal. Old ladies with x-ray vision may well become a classic.


What I find so hard to swallow in all of this is that Armstrong and his tribe dismiss FBI reports as inherently dishonest or unbelievable (except of course when the report can be used to support their theory, but let's not go there ) and yet here is Armstrong calling people NAYSAYERS for deconstructing the Warren Commission version of events! This leads to a total breakdown in logic. John doesn't trust the FBI so dismisses huge numbers of their reports for no reason EXCEPT this alleged distrust. The Warren Commission Report however, is based largely on this "dishonest FBI" investigation. But despite this conflict, john is fine with large slabs of that report. It doesn't get thrown out because it is based on the "dishonest FBI" investigation. Little sections of it does - but only when those parts can't be shoehorned into his cockamamie theory.


You are right to challenge him too, to produce proof that anyone here has criticized witnesses for not remembering "XYZ". It is a second rate debate tactic that ( a ) is meant to put us on the backfoot defending non-existent criticisms and ( b ) it attempts to get the reader to infer that the witness was solid and can be relied upon despite one or two minor errors.


So I support the call for examples to be given where this has happened. Drawing attention to problems with witnesses is not a criticism of the witness. It was what it is - drawing attention to a real or potential issue with the evidence provided by that witness. Put up or retract, John.


--

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October 18, 2015 at 1:54 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

steely dan
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Posts: 1013

Boom Goes The Dynamite, Ed. Well played sir.
October 18, 2015 at 9:09 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106



These papers show the bracelet or communist salute, among others. Not hard to prove the images of the bracelet wearing Oswald was widely distributed and seen early on.

November 25, 1963
Las Vegas Daily Optic from East Las Vegas, New Mexico · Page 10

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/25503216/

Shows Lee fist in air bracelet in plain view.

The Daily Register

Harrisburg, Illinois

Saturday, November 23, 1963 - Page 1


http://www.newspapers.com/image/59409355/?terms=lee%2Bharvey%2Boswald%2Bfist





From Armstrong 1998

"Harvey Oswald told police he had been in the lunchroom at the time of the assassination and had "committed no acts of violence." Coworker Charles Douglas Givens remembered Oswald wore a brown, long sleeved shirt the day of the assassination. This brown shirt was noticed by Mary Bledsoe when Oswald boarded the Marsalis bus and again by cab driver William Whaley when he drove Oswald to Oak Cliff. Although many people have felt Whaley was not credible, I think there is reason to believe his original, pre-Warren Commission identification because of the other details he noticed, such as an identification bracelet on his left wrist. Oswald was later photographed wearing just such a bracelet and the bracelet appears in the Dallas Police inventory as well. Whaley described, in various separate reports, a dark or brown shirt with a light or shiny colored streak in it. "

Wait! Isn't that Lee whom you say was arrested and Harvey got away John?!?!? Seems even you are having trouble keeping your charade straight.


Whaley's previous trip took 9 minutes so it places him at the Greyhound taxi stand EVEN BEFORE 12:30!!! He just rounded it off in his log. Then he was going to get a pack of cigs but sees a man walking down the street and in an uncanny realization that this man needs a cab waits for him to approach and then whisks him to Oak Cliff.
You see it can not, will not fit Oswald even had Oswald went directly from the TSBD to the taxi stand. Timing is so far off as to make the whole claim by Armstrong a non-starter.

John Armstrong should know better.

"open three buttons down here." is how Whaley describes the shirt...is John positive Whaley didn't see the television or newspaper images of LHO? Because that's an awfully exacting recollection compared to that shiny thing on his arm.

Not like Ball asked a leading question of Whaley,

Mr. BALL. Was there anything in particular about him beside his clothing that you could identify such as jewelry, bracelets?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; he had on a bracelet of some type on his left arm. It looked like an identification bracelet. Just shiny, you know, how you see anything shiny, an unusual watchband or something shiny, you notice things like that.

Mr. BALL. I have here a bracelet which is marked 383. Take a look at it and tell me if you have ever seen it before.

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; as near as I can tell that is the bracelet he was wearing the day I carried him, the shiny bracelet I was talking about.

Mr. BALL. You mentioned the fact that the man who sat in the front seat of your cab, which you drove from the Greyhound Station on Lamar Street over to 500 North Beckley, had an identification bracelet on him.

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, it looked like an identification bracelet. It looks like this one, sir, it was shiny, I couldn't tell exactly whether that was the bracelet or not.

Mr. BALL. But it looks like one of them?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; it looks like it.

Mr. BALL. Offer this in evidence.

Representative FORD. So admitted.



(Commission Exhibit No. 383 was withdrawn and a photograph of the bracelet was received as Commission Exhibit No. 383-A.)



Representative FORD. What hand or what arm did he have it on?

Mr. WHALEY. He had it on the arm next to me, which was the left arm.

Representative FORD. Was it protruding below the sleeve or jacket?

Mr. WHALEY. His coatsleeve was like this when he stretches his arm out it was short, that is when I saw it.

Representative FORD. Where was his hand when you saw it, if you can recollect it?

Mr. WHALEY. Well, just moving. You know you catch any bright object, why you notice it, that is how I noticed it. He was just moving his hand around. When the old lady stuck her head in the door and asked me to call her a cab. why he reached over to the door to open it like he told her she could have that one but she decided that she would wait for the next one because he already had that one. And that is when I saw it, sir. In the picture, I believe, I don't think he had it on in that picture in the paper the next morning.



So Oswald reaches for the right hand door with his left hand? And this supposed odd movement which would have placed the left arm away from Whaley is when he claims he 'saw' it... not likely at all. He admits to looking at the newspapers!

John Armstrong your cab and bus have left you stranded,
Cheers! Ed



October 19, 2015 at 9:38 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Jake
Moderator
Posts: 402



Good analysis Ed. I see on Foo that a bus/taxi ride has been deemed all too complicated to have been fabricated off the cuff plus there were "witnesses" to his stating he had taken a bus/taxi. I don't know the veracity of the witnesses but even if they are true witnesses, a hypothetical scenario that fits is Oswald as a semi-conscious participant, which follows:



He was waiting on the TSBD steps for his ride to the theater as pre-planned with his handlers, which he took after the shooting, the idea being that he was helping to set up Cuban patsies but needed to leave town immediately (catch a ride to Redbird after making contact in TT) afterward for his own protection from the Cubans he was setting up for the attempt under this “patsy within a patsy” scenario.



At the point when he was arrested and taken in, during the early hours when he may indeed have spoken of a bus/taxi ride, he was staying true to his cover by not revealing that he had a ride to the theater and accordingly stated he took a bus/ taxi. He may have been prepped with it; something like ‘if anything goes wrong, you took a bus and a taxi home and went to the TT’. We'll get you out from there. The plotters could have pre-planned and executed having a (simple) double go through the motions to generate the witnesses, not in order to back up LHO’s “cover” story, but instead to set up the patsy, LHO. Early in custody LHO perhaps did not yet know he was a patsy and was playing the game. This is also apparent in his call for “a representation” during the press conference later on. He seems still to be hoping for extraction while maintaining a cover. Then the dime drops and he realizes that it is he who is the patsy.



It’s ironic that those who promote the deeply intricate, years long program of two LHO’s running all over the planet are the same people who consider one carefully planned day in Dallas too complicated to ring true. It’s not a consistent basis for evaluating ideas.




October 19, 2015 at 9:45 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Wait! Isn't that Lee whom you say was arrested and Harvey got away John?!?!? Seems even you are having trouble keeping your charade straight.


Ed, you may be right - but it was my undrstanding that Lee set Harvey up and then disappeared into the witness protextion program posing as some big burly guy with a skin condition named Donald Norton.



--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 19, 2015 at 3:55 PM

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Jake at October 19, 2015 at 9:45 AM



Good analysis Ed. I see on Foo that a bus/taxi ride has been deemed all too complicated to have been fabricated off the cuff plus there were "witnesses" to his stating he had taken a bus/taxi. I don't know the veracity of the witnesses but even if they are true witnesses, a hypothetical scenario that fits is Oswald as a semi-conscious participant, which follows:



He was waiting on the TSBD steps for his ride to the theater as pre-planned with his handlers, which he took after the shooting, the idea being that he was helping to set up Cuban patsies but needed to leave town immediately (catch a ride to Redbird after making contact in TT) afterward for his own protection from the Cubans he was setting up for the attempt under this “patsy within a patsy” scenario.



At the point when he was arrested and taken in, during the early hours when he may indeed have spoken of a bus/taxi ride, he was staying true to his cover by not revealing that he had a ride to the theater and accordingly stated he took a bus/ taxi. He may have been prepped with it; something like ‘if anything goes wrong, you took a bus and a taxi home and went to the TT’. We'll get you out from there. The plotters could have pre-planned and executed having a (simple) double go through the motions to generate the witnesses, not in order to back up LHO’s “cover” story, but instead to set up the patsy, LHO. Early in custody LHO perhaps did not yet know he was a patsy and was playing the game. This is also apparent in his call for “a representation” during the press conference later on. He seems still to be hoping for extraction while maintaining a cover. Then the dime drops and he realizes that it is he who is the patsy.



It’s ironic that those who promote the deeply intricate, years long program of two LHO’s running all over the planet are the same people who consider one carefully planned day in Dallas too complicated to ring true. It’s not a consistent basis for evaluating ideas.




Jake, this is one of those areas that's hard to pin down because we are forced to fill in lots of blanks with conjecture.


The things I am reasonaby certain of include


The FBI had a close association with the TSBD


That Oswald was placed in the building to watch Molina (tip of the hat to Lee F)


That those involved in the plot included secret service and FBI agents, military intel operatives (including some cops), CAP and civil defense people


That an attempt was unwittingly foiled at the 12:10 mark of the parade


That had the DP attempt been foiled, JFK's steak would have been poisoned with the person serving it being blamed. That would have been Molina's wife.


That any witting involvement by Oswald was on the understanding that this was a simulated attack run by civil defense for training purposes (thus PMs apparent nonchalance) .


That part of the frame specific to Oswald included making sure he was at that theater (for reasons I'll set out in upcoming book)
--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 19, 2015 at 4:26 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Correct only thing we know for certain is he left the TSBD and was later arrested at the TT.

If he was "coerced" into saying he took a cab and a bus doesn't make either the truth. The full force of DPD's machinery was in play plus pressure from FBI.

Did Oswald walk away from the TSBD and get on a bus? Possibly. Would he need a transfer? Not likely.
What does that transfer do? It makes Cecil claim the boy is Oswald. We know he meant Milton Jones, and Jones receeived no transfer. So on the surface it would appear as though the transfer was taken from the bus, which Cecil pre-punches and was used during the hours he was kept at DPD to influence his statements.
We know today these tacticts were used to obtain false convictions by the DA.


The cab ride is such a waste of time to be laughable.
Oswald rode buses, no big deal, except again the DPD and FBI gang up to use Bledsoe, and further incriminate Oswald by her saying he was wild looking, laughed about the president being shot, and so forth.
Since Oswald did not use the supposed transfer on another bus they needed Bledsoe to be on Cecil's bus with Milton Jones.

If you were a regular bus rider would you walk blocks and blocks the wrong way to get a bus?
Again this is laughable, tends to incriminate Oswald and never happened.
As soon as the parade was over buses that were stoped along Main and other streets resumed service.
If you were wanting to catch a bus that is where I would head, or simply wait at the corner of Houston and Elm for that bus.
But the DPD and FBI would have a problem as the only man that could be fit into THEIR scenario involved a blonde woman with a suitcase and a guy who did not match LHO closely.

We see what happened with the lunchroom story when examined closely.
I submit the taxi and bus ride as offered are more of the same.

Volume three by Greg is much anticipated!!
October 20, 2015 at 12:31 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Greg at October 19, 2015 at 3:55 PM

Wait! Isn't that Lee whom you say was arrested and Harvey got away John?!?!? Seems even you are having trouble keeping your charade straight.


Ed, you may be right - but it was my undrstanding that Lee set Harvey up and then disappeared into the witness protextion program posing as some big burly guy with a skin condition named Donald Norton.



Greg,

John Armstrong has some whacky ideas.
He actually has about six oswald's two Marguerite's and who knows what else.... how do we know John is John??? Seriously...
His Oswald's range from 5 foot 2 to over six feet tall in Norton.
For once he did himself a favor and kept Donald out of his 'book.'

Donald Norton's picture,
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/51834 ;
Yep a dead ringer for Lee or was that Harvey?


October 20, 2015 at 1:01 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

On April 8 1964 Whaley gives a deposition in Dallas to Belin, Belin needed to remind Whaley they met in Washington,

Mr. Belin. You previously testified before the Commission in Washington, is that correct?

Mr. Whaley. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. Mr. Ball and I saw you in Washington, is that correct?

Mr. Whaley. Now I don't know if that is correct or not, but your face is very familiar.

Mr. Belin. You think you have seen me before?

Mr. Whaley. I don't know.

Mr. Belin. It might have been in Washington when you were there?

Mr. Whaley. Yes, sir; it could have been.

So John Armstrong would defend Whaley's memory....
Whaley doesn't remember a counselor whom was questioning him prior to the WC testimony, whom was at his WC testimony.
How are we to believe his memory of a face he saw on television and in the newspapers is not a false memory or confusion?

Mr. Belin. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station. Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?

Mr. Whaley. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.

Mr. Belin. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup.

Mr. Whaley. Well, now, let's get this straight. You are getting me confused.


And

Mr. BALL. Do you know a taxi driver named Darrell Click?

Mr. WHALEY. I may know his face, sir, but not his name.


Really? a non-existant person but Whaley may know his face?


And

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it did not. When you drive a taxi, sir, as long as I have, you can almost look at a man, in fact, you have to, to be able to tell whether you can trust or whether you can't trust him, what he is.

Now, like you got in my taxicab and I looked you over and you told me just wait for me here and went in the building, well, I will have to know whether I could just say, "OK, sir." Or say, "Will you leave me a $5 bill, sir?"

When you drive a taxi that long you learn to judge people and what I actually thought of the man when he got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about two days, that is the way he looked, sir, that was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.


Of course Whaley convinced himself he was THEE Taxi Driver due to newspaper pictures, and the taxi ride talk going on...

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; they came and got me, sir, the next day after I told my superior when I saw in the paper his picture, I told my superiors that that had been my passenger that day at noon. They called up the police and they came up and got me.

Mr. BALL. When you saw in the newspaper the picture of the man?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You went to your superior and told him you thought he was your passenger?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.


No one needed to make up anything for Whaley, he was making it up himself!! And unlike the memory of Cecil and Milton, Whaley did have confusion and trouble recalling someone he had spent much much longer with than 9 minutes! Yet Whaley is sure that passenger was an wino whom had slept in his clothes and seemed to only have a dollar and his log proves such and it could not be Oswald thus was likely a wino in a Khaki blue uniform heading back to Oak Cliff not to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley but near Neely Street.


Next, Armstrong believes Bledsoe and her "memories."
October 20, 2015 at 3:10 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Ed Ledoux at October 20, 2015 at 3:10 AM

On April 8 1964 Whaley gives a deposition in Dallas to Belin, Belin needed to remind Whaley they met in Washington,

Mr. Belin. You previously testified before the Commission in Washington, is that correct?

Mr. Whaley. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. Mr. Ball and I saw you in Washington, is that correct?

Mr. Whaley. Now I don't know if that is correct or not, but your face is very familiar.

Mr. Belin. You think you have seen me before?

Mr. Whaley. I don't know.

Mr. Belin. It might have been in Washington when you were there?

Mr. Whaley. Yes, sir; it could have been.

So John Armstrong would defend Whaley's memory....
Whaley doesn't remember a counselor whom was questioning him prior to the WC testimony, whom was at his WC testimony.
How are we to believe his memory of a face he saw on television and in the newspapers is not a false memory or confusion?

Mr. Belin. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station. Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?

Mr. Whaley. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.

Mr. Belin. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup.

Mr. Whaley. Well, now, let's get this straight. You are getting me confused.


And

Mr. BALL. Do you know a taxi driver named Darrell Click?

Mr. WHALEY. I may know his face, sir, but not his name.


Really? a non-existant person but Whaley may know his face?


And

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it did not. When you drive a taxi, sir, as long as I have, you can almost look at a man, in fact, you have to, to be able to tell whether you can trust or whether you can't trust him, what he is.

Now, like you got in my taxicab and I looked you over and you told me just wait for me here and went in the building, well, I will have to know whether I could just say, "OK, sir." Or say, "Will you leave me a $5 bill, sir?"

When you drive a taxi that long you learn to judge people and what I actually thought of the man when he got in was that he was a wino who had been off his bottle for about two days, that is the way he looked, sir, that was my opinion of him.

Mr. BALL. What was there about his appearance that gave you that impression? Hair mussed?

Mr. WHALEY. Just the slow way he walked up. He didn't talk. He wasn't in any hurry. He wasn't nervous or anything.


Of course Whaley convinced himself he was THEE Taxi Driver due to newspaper pictures, and the taxi ride talk going on...

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; they came and got me, sir, the next day after I told my superior when I saw in the paper his picture, I told my superiors that that had been my passenger that day at noon. They called up the police and they came up and got me.

Mr. BALL. When you saw in the newspaper the picture of the man?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. You went to your superior and told him you thought he was your passenger?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.


No one needed to make up anything for Whaley, he was making it up himself!! And unlike the memory of Cecil and Milton, Whaley did have confusion and trouble recalling someone he had spent much much longer with than 9 minutes! Yet Whaley is sure that passenger was an wino whom had slept in his clothes and seemed to only have a dollar and his log proves such and it could not be Oswald thus was likely a wino in a Khaki blue uniform heading back to Oak Cliff not to a rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley but near Neely Street.


Next, Armstrong believes Bledsoe and her "memories."

Ace!


40 - LUV!
--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 20, 2015 at 3:41 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Jake
Moderator
Posts: 402

Thanks for the comments Greg. That Oswald was in a CAP program is a great find by you. It clarifies so much of the murkiness surrounding LHO. I'm sure my scenario is not highly accurate since so much is conjecture. It begins with LHO on the steps as PM though, which is where everyone interested in this case should start now. I was speaking to how things that seem too complex aren't really when simply broken down into component parts. Given that he was on the steps during the shooting, it's perfectly feasible that LHO was taken to the TT in a car, in which case the bus /taxi story is a perfectly feasible throw down, just like the wallet, the gun, the bullet, and the backyard photos. Once these bones were in place, with other things and people removed from place, it could more or less hold itself together in lieu of a real investigation.


I will enjoy reading your book I'm sure of it.
October 20, 2015 at 6:23 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Jake at October 20, 2015 at 6:23 AM

Thanks for the comments Greg. That Oswald was in a CAP program is a great find by you. It clarifies so much of the murkiness surrounding LHO. I'm sure my scenario is not highly accurate since so much is conjecture. It begins with LHO on the steps as PM though, which is where everyone interested in this case should start now. I was speaking to how things that seem too complex aren't really when simply broken down into component parts. Given that he was on the steps during the shooting, it's perfectly feasible that LHO was taken to the TT in a car, in which case the bus /taxi story is a perfectly feasible throw down, just like the wallet, the gun, the bullet, and the backyard photos. Once these bones were in place, with other things and people removed from place, it could more or less hold itself together in lieu of a real investigation.


I will enjoy reading your book I'm sure of it.

Jake, I think "the big lie" gambit was used very successfully. And it's blatent. All you have to do is the lid and look and compare and contrast and become familiar with the players and the evidence.


There are more CAP "coincidences" to come - one in the guise of innocence, and others that just smack you fair in the face.


And I agree - Oswald could have left by car. There was conjecture on another thread that Wes drove him. That kinda works for me, but it doesn't really matter. One way or another, he was supposed to meet his maker at the movies. It didn't have to be the TT specifically - any theater would have done. It (the theater setting) was to be an integral part of the frame. I know that sounds strange but you'll understand when it's published.


He ruined it by yelling out in front of multiple witnesses that he wasn't resisting.


He didn't go and change any clothing at N Beckley because he wasn't living there. The arrest shirt is the shirt PM was wearing.
--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 20, 2015 at 7:02 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
Moderator
Posts: 1403

Greg at October 20, 2015 at 7:02 AM

Jake at October 20, 2015 at 6:23 AM

Thanks for the comments Greg. That Oswald was in a CAP program is a great find by you. It clarifies so much of the murkiness surrounding LHO. I'm sure my scenario is not highly accurate since so much is conjecture. It begins with LHO on the steps as PM though, which is where everyone interested in this case should start now. I was speaking to how things that seem too complex aren't really when simply broken down into component parts. Given that he was on the steps during the shooting, it's perfectly feasible that LHO was taken to the TT in a car, in which case the bus /taxi story is a perfectly feasible throw down, just like the wallet, the gun, the bullet, and the backyard photos. Once these bones were in place, with other things and people removed from place, it could more or less hold itself together in lieu of a real investigation.


I will enjoy reading your book I'm sure of it.

Jake, I think "the big lie" gambit was used very successfully. And it's blatent. All you have to do is the lid and look and compare and contrast and become familiar with the players and the evidence.


There are more CAP "coincidences" to come - one in the guise of innocence, and others that just smack you fair in the face.


And I agree - Oswald could have left by car. There was conjecture on another thread that Wes drove him. That kinda works for me, but it doesn't really matter. One way or another, he was supposed to meet his maker at the movies. It didn't have to be the TT specifically - any theater would have done. It (the theater setting) was to be an integral part of the frame. I know that sounds strange but you'll understand when it's published.


He ruined it by yelling out in front of multiple witnesses that he wasn't resisting.


He didn't go and change any clothing at N Beckley because he wasn't living there. The arrest shirt is the shirt PM was wearing.

Agreed! Agreed! Agreed!



October 20, 2015 at 7:37 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

John Armstrong here's your apples,


Billings Gazette Nov 23rd '63
Oswald shown wearing bracelet.




Caption on Courier-Post:
"Lee Harvey Oswald is escorted in handcuffs through the Dallas police station, Nov. 23, 1963, on the way to the interrogation room where he was subjected to more questioning about yesterday's assassination of President Kennedy. District Attorney Henry Wade, who filed murder charges against Oswald, said "There is no one else but him." Oswald has continued to say he had nothing to do with the assassination. (AP Photo)"


Scranton Times Nov 23rd 1963



And finale is,
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/multimedia/jfkexhibit/21.html



Lee Harvey Oswald arrested

Unidentified Photographer, [Television image of Lee Harvey Oswald taken into custody for alleged assassination of John F. Kennedy], November 22, 1963. International Center of Photography, Museum Purchase, 2013.



How you like them apples John?
October 20, 2015 at 8:20 AM

Mick Purdy
Moderator
Posts: 1403

Yikes! That's a slam dunk me thinks.

Home run, checkmate.....the pubs run dry.


Excellent post......they're falling like shooting stars, the whole lot of these frauds
October 20, 2015 at 8:33 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

   Mick Purdy at October 20, 2015 at 8:33 AM

   Yikes! Thats a slam dunk me thinks.

   Home run, checkmate.....the pubs run dry.


   Excellent post......they're falling like shooting stars, the whole lot of these frauds

Happy to see ya Mick!
Now lets see how good a memory and witness Bledsoe was, since John Armstrong wants to defend her memory.
First her affidavit.



No hand written statement exists, only her typed affidavit. Why nothing showing her hand and thoughts, awful short and sweet for Bledsoe.

Last Friday? Odd way for Bledsoe to describe yesterday?

She would have to wait for the entire parade to go past before she would be allowed to cross Main and Elm (North side bus stop) thus needing to cross two busy intersections crowded full of people, her words, and make it to Cecil's bus in time to ride it to a stop near 621 Marsalis ave in Oak Cliff where she lived.

Mr. BALL - This Beckley bus that we talked about, remember the one that has the starting point at St. Paul and Elm--

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - The same as your bus, the Marsalis bus?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

Mr. BALL - What is the difference in the time run, what time does the Beckley bus leave--let me withdraw the question. Your bus leaves St. Paul and Elm at 12:36, scheduled to leave there as of November 22d?

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - Using the same schedule, can you tell me at what time around 12:30 or so that the Beckley bus would leave Elm and St. Paul and proceed westerly on Elm?

Mr. McWATTERS - He is scheduled in there the same time as I am, 12:36.

Mr. BALL - 12:36. Was that bus in the line?

Mr. McWATTERS - No. In other words, that bus was behind me, in other words, because when I got there as a general rule, when we pull up there every day, in other words, I am coming in one direction and he is another, in other words, most every day, we will pull up at this intersection at the same time.

She would have to take the Beckley bus or Bishop bus had she missed Cecil's bus, or wait for another 'Marsalis' bus.
An argument could be made she was on a later bus.

"And the woman over--we all got to talking, about four of us sitting around talking, & Oswald was sitting back there.... "

So she and the other ladies on a bus are talking about the assassination.

Oh, it was awful in the city, & then they had roped off that around [Houston St.] where the President was killed, shot. And we were the first car that come around there.

Ropes were deployed after the fire department was on scene. Ropes were used on Houston and Elm both across Houston past the TSBD and at the SE corner as seen in films and photos after 1pm. If she was on the first bus through she would have not seen ropes.

And then all of us were talking about the man.

The man she has "sitting back there" in the very bus she is riding on but wait...

And we were looking up to see where he was shot & looking... and then they had one man... and taking him... already got him in jail. And we got... 'Well, I am glad they found him'."

She already has him in jail when they go past the TSBD, so that argument has merit. Did she get a shoppers transfer and thus needed to go spend a dollar for her free ride back to Marsalis. I would heavily put merit to this also. The only quarter I would give these memories is if they were from a later bus or weaved in from other sources.
But lets look at more of Bledsoe's statements and memories John Armstrong is quick to defend.
She describes a stop the bus made at Murphy. Cecil says this was about where a man knocked on his door and got on.
That man was wearing a cloth jacket according to Cecil. Bledsoe describes holes in elbows of a shirt which a jacket precluded her from seeing so Cecil defeats Bledsoe. (Milton backs up Cecil)

Mr. BALL - In this affidavit, it says, it mentions the fact that when you went to Marsalis and picked up a woman.

Mr. McWATTERS - Yes.

"As we got on out Marsalis... there was a lady who was fixing to cross the intersection.... And I asked her had she heard the news of the President being shot. At the time, that was all I knew about it

The fact Cecil only knows the President had been shot, is in stark contrast, at that time, to what Bledsoe claims she knew about the arrest of Oswald and location from which shots were said to had come from, ie sixth floor window and the roping off of the building.

Now your wondering how could Mary Bledsoe know what she had in her affidavit if she was not on the bus with Oswald?
Thanks to Lee Farley and what he had found, that another caller was ignored (after a Sat. afternoon interview) whom had basically the same information.




So there we have DPD's template for Bledsoe.  What they would ask and insert into her 'memories'.
If Bledsoe rode Cecil's bus she had seen a man whom did not match anyone else's 'memories' on that bus.
October 21, 2015 at 5:33 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Bledsoe came to the DPD station at 7pm Saturday evening to give her version of what she recalled LAST FRIDAY....


http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483&relPageId=500&search=bledsoe

Caledar Page sells for $250
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60420&relPageId=60&search=bledsoe

Calendar page sold for $300
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/24294039/

calendar page signed by Kennedy's assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald, at the request of Dallas boarding house owner Mrs. Mary Bledsoe. The signature was to show that Oswald had paid rent for two weeks in October 1963, a month prior to the assassination. The calendar page, subsequently used by the FBI to trace Oswald's movements before the shooting, brought $300 in a mail bid from private dealer David Licht of Miami Beach

Researchers have been calling John Armstrong wrong for years
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/24th_Issue/mcwatters.html

Miss DOUTHIT - Did he use your telephone on Monday?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - After the, yes; after he got everything settled, I think he did. Two or three times every day. Called his wife, supposed to be.

Mr. JENNER - Then, one of the occasions when the gentleman interviewed you--were Secret Service and FBI people there is a notation that you recalled that on Monday afternoon that he did call his wife?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh

Mr. JENNER - Now, the first time you heard him talking in the foreign language was when?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - As well as I can guess, it was a Wednesday.

Mr. JENNER - Wednesday?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Wednesday afternoon, but he came on----

Mr. JENNER - Now, so you assume that the other calls he made on Monday, since he did not, I take it, did not speak in a foreign language, or you didn't hear him speak in a foreign language on Monday?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. JENNER - And you didn't hear him do so on Tuesday?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

Mr. JENNER - First time you heard him to do that was Wednesday?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.



Anyways Cecil does not confuse the issue of whom he gave transfers to with whom he thought was Oswald, a boy named Milton, a boy whom had an interaction out on Marsalis with a lady. Milton or Oswald in Cecil's mind, did not get off downtown and did not get a transfer. So the transfer is a ruse to confuse.
Supposedly a transfer is taken placed in an envelope and sealed at DPD by Boyd and Sims.
That piece of evidence sealed in an envelope is not processed as a piece of evidence.

Mr. SIMS. I found a bus transfer slip in his shirt pocket.
Mr. SIMS. Well, he's got two pockets in here and let's see if I have it on here--what pocket it was--I didn't say--I don't remember what pocket he had that in.

Oh good lord man only two pockets to pick from and he can't even decide which one he supposedly found a bus transfer in. Same man whom let this gem slip after not really answering why Decker and them stopped at TSBD.

Mr. SIMS. Well, we took our rifles out of the car and shotgun, and proceeded to the building, went in the building.

Mr. BALL. What door of the building did you go in?

Mr. SIMS. The front door.

Can I get a cite for the rifle or shotgun seen in the photos of them coming out of the building,.Its not a regular 12 gauge shotgun. But they bring out zero rifles, except the Carcano of course ,,,


Now if Bledsoe was on Cecil's bus with Lee all the way to Oak Cliff, that sinks the Tippit Murder assassin being Lee logistically.

I think Oswald took a bus, but straight to the theater. Did not need or take a transfer, and wasn't on Cecil's bus.

If you believe Oswald walked seven blocks to get on Cecil's bus why not a few feet more to get on the Beckley bus directly behind Cecil's. It had large letters saying Beckley, especially if you believe he lived in the rooming house on Beckley.

I believe there was no trip home, or to a rooming house. That is the DPD talking, trying to have Oswald stop off somewhere to get a pistol, leaving the holster to be found.



He took a bus that dropped him on Jefferson near the theater.

They needed the cab ride so as to speed up his "escape" and to do all this and kill Tippit in the alloted time. Cab trips taken by the investigators shows a total disregard for the actual trip taken by Whaley and the fact Oswald was never in that cab is secondary to making the trip as fast as possible.

We know Oswald did not shoot Officer Tippit, go to a rooming house for a pistol or a jacket, take a cab or ride with Bledsoe on a bus.

Armstrong would have Oswald guilty of all these, and at the same time not guilty because he was two people. Quite perposterous.

All the bus action had to take place in downtown, if they waited for the bus to get to Oak Cliff, Oswald could not have gotten on and off the bus, gotten the transfer, and caught the cab at the Greyhound station. Thus Oswald would not have time to get a pistol and have an encounter with Tippit. If you recall Cecil's bus was at the corner for the library event.

No one was looking for Oswald, that is an after thought to make Truly, and the DPD appear to be doing their jobs.

Reality is Oswald was not known to anyone but Hosty and some MI group in Dallas, minus Brewer whom seems to have sold one pair of shoes to Oswald, whom only had Postal call police on a person whom sneaks into the theater and is confronted in the balcony. If only looking for Oswald why search other patrons first? I will wait for Greg to fill in the readers about the rest of the Texas Theater's drama queens.



Her claim as to Oswald's shirt with Holes in Elbows,

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95616&relPageId=93&search=mary_bledsoe



The commission I believe spent more pages and time on bledsoe than any other witness. She had to have notes prepared which she read from. She had to have her attorney at her hearing. She was not the one whom called the police but was her son Porter whom later ripped the Oct. calendar page with the supposed name of Oswald and sold it.

That page was not introduced into evidence as it was not secured only a copy, a photo by the FBI. Nor the photo taken by the FBI of that page was introduced, a huge ommission is placing his where abouts.

Bledsoe would sell a bunch of items from her home claiming them to be used by Oswald, bed, bureau, a comb even a framed photo of JFK!

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60400&relPageId=108&search=bledsoe

and

https://books.google.com/books?id=oEQ9G8e_zmQC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=hough+museum+oswald+bledsoe&source=bl&ots=3mJLcB5w1n&sig=hHp8VKxTS25CPBU1hE0bNDgtQrw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIt-DI-cjSyAIVkEGICh2bowEx#v=onepage&q=hough%20museum%20oswald%20bledsoe&f=false

Time line that puts him not at the Paine's but supposedly at Bledsoe's, sheep dipping him?
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95675&relPageId=89&search=mary_bledsoe

Why would Ossie need to carry his rifle to Mary's bungalows??? Was there another shooting they were going to pin on him between 10/7-10/14?

Mr. BALL. You say it was shown to a busdriver and he made some remarks about it; were you there when it was shown to the busdriver?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. So, you are just telling me what some other officer told you?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. All right.

Mr. SIMS. I didn't see actually the busdriver, I don't believe, identify his transfer.

Mr. BALL. Do you know the officer that showed the transfer to the busdriver?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. BALL. Did you see any identification bracelet on Oswald?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; he had an identification bracelet.

Mr. BALL. Did he have that on at the time of the showup?

Mr. SIMS. Yes.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever remove that?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; when they were getting his paraffin cast on his hands.

I am trying not to point out the weakness of this witness's memories.......

Mr. STERN. Now, the search in which you participated of Oswald at 4:05 on Friday, just before the first showup---you have told us that either you or Mr. Boyd found five live rounds of .38 caliber pistol shells, and a bus transfer slip, and an identification bracelet, according to your memorandum--Oswald took his ring off and gave it to you?

Mr. SIMS. That's right.

Mr. STERN. Do you recall that?

Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir.

Mr. STERN. Do you remember anything else that was found on Oswald at that time?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; I don't remember anything else.

Mr. STERN. A wallet or identification card?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; that had been taken off of him.

Mr. STERN. That had been taken off of him upon his arrest at the time of his arrest?

Mr. SIMS. Well, I don't know when, but he didn't have it on.

Mr. STERN. Did you say anything to him at that time about the ownership of these things, about the ownership of the pistol shells---cartridges--did you comment on that?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir.

Mr. STERN. Did he say anything about it?

Mr. STERN. No, sir; there was no comment at all.

Mr. STERN. Or on the bus transfer slip?

Mr. SIMS. No, sir; he was asked something about it--I don't remember what I asked or what he said.

Oh well there I guess a very important question can be shrugged off by Armstrong because we don't want to question anyone's memory....


October 22, 2015 at 5:18 AM

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049

Ed, just one thing quickly... the ID bracelet which was engraved with at least his first nane.... does not the wearing of this make carrying ID in the same name as the bracelet AND ID in another name somewhat silly... as if it's not silly enough in and of itself without wearing your real name (almost) on your sleeve ?
--

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http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


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Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

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October 22, 2015 at 6:27 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1106

Yes it would Greg.
Any notion Lee Oswald with bracelet carried anything but ID for that name would be laughable.

October 24, 2015 at 2:56 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

steely dan
Moderator
Posts: 1013

Holy Shit! How much do you think 'Unicorn' paid to get his names on his bracelet. Fucking thing must be like a pitbulls collar.
October 24, 2015 at 3:14 AM