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Mr White T-Shirt

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Mr White T-Shirt

Post by greg parker on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 8:17 am


Looks quite a bit like Lovelady but it has been suggested it's Dougherty - which makes more sense if Lovelady never got back in as the exterior film record suggests. Another factor whch suggests Dougherty is that to me the person looks too tall for Lovelady.


Last edited by greg parker on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by steely dan on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 9:38 am

If it's Lovelady why would he take his shirt off?
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:18 am

I'd rather this thread be about Ms. Wet T-Shirt.

Oh wait...wrong forum. Sorry.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 10:20 am

This has a thread about it over at Stinky's. Its been around for a while. Its being suggested that guy maybe standing on pallets or something. I'm not sure that it looks like Lovelady. It has been suggested it might be Dougherty but there is no basis for it other than hunches.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by greg parker on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:36 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:This has a thread about it over at Stinky's. Its been around for a while. Its being suggested that guy maybe standing on pallets or something. I'm not sure that it looks like Lovelady. It has been suggested it might be Dougherty but there is no basis for it other than hunches.
Paul, I do think it looks like Lovelady... but no dead-ringer by any means. Standing on pallets is a guess by them. No evidence for it other than that he looks tall and there may have been some empty pallets around. IIRC, Truly stated that Dougherty was a big man and if this person is not standing on something, he would be considered tall (imo). The other thing is a process of elimination. There were not too many Caucasian laborers working in that building, and only one trapped in there after the sealing off - Dougherty. It almost has to be him.

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 11:57 am

I believe it was the same person caught by Dillard and cropped ever so slightly out of the famous image.


This would be a husky man wearing a white tshirt, slightly balding.
Seen in uncropped version of one of Dillard's photos.

An employee whom admitted to being on an upper floor working (ie in a tshirt) when he heard a shot. Which was the sixth floor as he slipped up and said he went down to five ...from where? Sixth of course, and after his bs talk with Piper, where does he go? He "went back" to sixth of course.
I think like most everyone he ran to a window.
I don't buy the story or intended confusion.
I don't accept he had to go down and have Piper tell him what he heard.

This would be Jack Dougherty, of course, seen just as he was caught in Dillard.

JD is our man. I do not buy it is Billy. Billy three shirts?... nope its JD
Jack Edwin Dougherty.
I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.

Billy stuck outside having a ciggy are among the top bits against it being William Lovelady.

No shots were fired from the sixth floor (Me).  But rifles of various makes are on various floors depending on whom you ask and when.
The weirdness with the Dillard and Powell photo/s.
A-B C-D from two negs, yet seemingly not.
Powell taking a building photo before the shooting,,,  (WaltCakebread)

The differing statements from the three blind mice. (Lee)
The lunch bag and chicken bones journey. (Colin Crow)
On and on ... so much is merged to impugn Oswald
But the Powell photo being from a time before Dillard's photos plural would along with films show no rifle no person and no shots came from the so called 'snipers nest'

A body blow the most ardent commission advocate would cough up blood from.

With such a witness on the sixth floor, basically admitting the shot did not come from there as he could not tell where it had come from, is quite another blow, one the commission could not allow.
Much cropping would be done.
Much photographic chronological confusion would ensue.
Much confusion was brought into Dougherty's testimony.

May be a new thread strictly on the Dillard Dilema?

IMO, until shown a better option, it is Dougherty.
Cheers, Ed
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:32 pm

Hmm
There are pallets...
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:35 pm

That is not a standable pallet.
It is full of books.
Fritz and Dougherty? both have to be elevated by some means.
around the pallets of full books are just loose cases on the floor.

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:37 pm

PS. Note difference in height of pallet vs book case
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 12:52 pm

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 2:21 pm

I can't say if its Dougherty or not cause we don't have a photograph of the lump to compare against. As I said before I don't think its Lovelady despite the hair line. There are similarities, Greg, for sure but as Ed pointed out surely it can't be Billy 3 shirts!. As for the pallets again I don't know. It was something that was being bandied about at Stinky's. It could be JD but that would be a calculated guess. He sure looks creepy. He reminds me of Karl from Sling Blade played by Billy Bob Thornton.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 2:46 pm

I split the above GIF into 71 individual frames, selected 11 frames that looked good, cropped/enlarged them, increased brightness 15%, and made a GIF.
 


Pretty close to some good facial detail in a few of these frames. He looks husky to me.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by greg parker on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 3:07 pm

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:I can't say if its Dougherty or not cause we don't have a photograph of the lump to compare against. As I said before I don't think its Lovelady despite the hair line. There are similarities, Greg, for sure but as Ed pointed out surely it can't be Billy 3 shirts!. As for the pallets again I don't know. It was something that was being bandied about at Stinky's. It could be JD but that would be a calculated guess. He sure looks creepy. He reminds me of Karl from Sling Blade played by Billy Bob Thornton.
Terrific flick! Based on Truly's statements, I used to imagine Dougherty as being Lennie from "Of Mice and Men".
 with Truly as George.

I agree not Lovelady. Standing on pallets or not, there is no one else it could be except Dougherty, unless I'm missing crossing someone off? Are there any others it could conceivably be?

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 3:33 pm

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 4:03 pm

I get myself in trouble trying to analyze "blurry" photos, but the forehead on mystery man seems different than Lovelady's. Appears wider at the eyes and has more of a curve in front from the side, whereas Lovelday's forehead appears flatter from the side.

Oh, and if Doyle happens to see this, he'll claim the dark area in back of mystery man's head is a pony tail.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by barto on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 5:20 pm

Where the bald patch at?

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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 6:16 pm

If he is not on a pallet or a stack of sorts, he really is a giant of a man in comparison to the others around him.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 4:58 pm

Ain't no patch Bart.
Lovelady took off his third coat, and put on his toupee.
geek
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by The Prodigal Son on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 11:20 pm

I've flip-flopped back and forth between Lovelady and Dougherty.  I would now put money on Dougherty.  Simply because of his size and bulk which is supported by other TSBD workers saying her was a big guy.

If it is him, then Dougherty was also something of an Oswald lookalike from a distance.  I think it entirely possible that the 3rd or 4th floor encounter Baker had was with Dougherty but that way lies madness.  Just ask Jesus Gilbride.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 2:19 am

The Prodigal Son wrote:I've flip-flopped back and forth between Lovelady and Dougherty.  I would now put money on Dougherty.  Simply because of his size and bulk which is supported by other TSBD workers saying her was a big guy.

If it is him, then Dougherty was also something of an Oswald lookalike from a distance.  I think it entirely possible that the 3rd or 4th floor encounter Baker had was with Dougherty but that way lies madness.  Just ask Jesus Gilbride.
It doesn't matter who it is really but it'd be nice to know what Dougherty looked like. He's avoided the spotlight. He got off lightly too at the WC with his lame story. I'm not sure he is that big. I reckon he might be standing on a platform of sorts. Doesn't mean he isn't big or he isnt Dougherty but he is at least 1 foot bigger than everyone else. A proverbial giant yet he didn't stand out. He ought to have been the number one suspect. Out of all the potential suspects he was closest to the snipers nest even though no shots were fired from there. Also a suspect in framing Oswald. He was in the right spot to do it.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Jake Sykes on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 10:26 am

He's a note not played, Paul. Just as meaningful as the notes that are. It's a huge omission not to have his info. Same with Shelley. Where's the dope on him?

One thought, he could be standing on a box. They are full of books after all.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 10:46 am

I reckon he was another patsy up the sleeve, Jake. Same with Frazier and others. Who is to say they played no role in framing Oswald? Maybe that's what's saved them from Oswald's predicament. Frazier got off lightly too for a guy who supposedly drove the assassin to work. His story is all over the shop. He can't even remember his mate next to him that day on the steps.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Jake Sykes on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 11:20 am

Good points Paul. Well said. In line with what you are saying, it is also significant to consider that there absolutely had to be a consciousness on the part of the entire work crew there that if they didn't work to successfully isolate the focus of the authorities' attention (LHO) then they were drawing the attention of those very same authorities crushingly down upon themselves. Big time. I'm quite sure they were all quite eager to see it pinned on one person and one person alone, and that would be without some possible ulterior motive one or more may have had due to a possible level of involvement in whatever kind of a plot they may have been led to believe was afoot that day.
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 3:26 pm

Jake Sykes wrote:He's a note not played, Paul. Just as meaningful as the notes that are. It's a huge omission not to have his info. Same with Shelley. Where's the dope on him?

One thought, he could be standing on a box. They are full of books after all.
Scott Foresman cartons were from memory 12x14x18

So a full foot of increased height standing on a book box in the conventional way.
 
..pallet would be 6 inches.
 


Brothers?
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Re: Mr White T-Shirt

Post by Mick Purdy on Sat 04 Feb 2017, 12:46 pm

Stan Dane wrote:I get myself in trouble trying to analyze "blurry" photos, but the forehead on mystery man seems different than Lovelady's. Appears wider at the eyes and has more of a curve in front from the side, whereas Lovelday's forehead appears flatter from the side.

Oh, and if Doyle happens to see this, he'll claim the dark area in back of mystery man's head is a pony tail.
I agree  stan, looks similar but not the same.
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