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Oswald's CIA 201 File

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Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 2:24 am

Oswald's CIA 201 File

  The concern over Oswald's CIA 201 file grows with the newly released documents.  First and foremost is the now established fact that 37 documents recorded as part of the file, were removed, lost or destroyed before 20 Feb. 1964.  This fact was presented to the WC by Richard Helms, in his response to the WC on the contents of this file.  There were 2 dispatches, 7 FBI memos, 1 CSCI,2  State Department docs and 25 cables, missing. In the submitted 201 file to the WC there were 7 FBI  docs,10 USDS docs,2 Dept Navy, I from INS, 4 newspaper clippings, 5 CIA notes and one CIA report
to the Warren Commission.

  The missing documents are indeed of interest, but there is little chance that they will ever see the light of day. So we need to consider all aspects of conspiracy as well as stupidity.  The 201 file  was presented as being created on 9 December, 1960.  Which would be a year after the first submitted document, for inclusion into the file and the grounds for opening the file in the first place.  It might have taken 30 days or more to create the file, but there is a major problem with that consideration. That problem maybe Elizabeth Ann Egerter, who was tasked to create a "P" file on Oswald in a classified message on 11 October 1963. The problem is she is listed as the CI/SIG in association with the first document of the 1960 201 file, she was also responsible for creating.  That document is from 9 November, 1959 and as do others included, concern Lee Harvey Oswald, not Lee Henry Oswald. The name Henry does not appear on any of the documents seen as of this time dealing with what has been
recently released. Beyond the Harvey vs Henry concern is another fact to consider.

 In the 1960 201 File there were 4 WATCH LIST cards one dated 20 November, 1959 was "deleted" 28 May, 1962. This establishes in fact that there was interest or action concerning LHO by the CIA in 1962 and documents from this file were being officially deleted...jko

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 9:13 am

Jim, are you aware of the theory that the insertion of mistakes in the name were deliberately done as part of Angleton's mole hunt? I don't have an opinion as I don't see the mole hunt, even if it utilized Oswald and/or his file, as having any significance to the assassination.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:03 am

Greg: I'm aware that theory and it is much more evident in my recent work
on Maurice Bishop and his alias, which I plan to post soon.  I was thinking of running it thru Jeff Morley first, since he's done alot on Bishop and this
new research can become time consuming to say the least.
  As to the Henry vs Harvey aspect of the 201 file, I'm open to all considerations, since I have not reached any conclusions on how the use of Henry fits into the box. Unless something comes up with further research I don't feel that the use of Henry has a clear significance other than its part of the official record, that we already know about. 

My main concern at this time is why there are 37 missing documents from the file and that this information was known to the WC and little or no effort was made to assemble data on them. For example the May 62 delete.  The CIA knew on 13 May 62, the Dutch issued Marina a transit visa, but no record of Lee getting one. It makes no sense to delete anything during that period of time by the CIA.

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:32 am

Jim Olmstead wrote:The CIA knew on 13 May 62, the Dutch issued Marina a transit visa, but no record of Lee getting one. It makes no sense to delete anything during that period of time by the CIA.
Don't know about that. Not sure what to make of it it either.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 2:41 pm

Greg: Further research on this by myself and anyone interested should consider the following:

Thomas B. Cassin mentions a few unknown facts relating:

REDWOOD (?) had OI (?) interest in LHO in summer of 1960 connected to KUJUMP (?). 

I believe KUJUMP deals with CIA interest in the factory that Lee worked in Minsk and that he should not be scared off in providing details.  History shows
us that LHO wrote a very detailed account of his "work" in Minsk and that would be of interest to CIA
upon his return.  So if LHO was returning, any material relating to his return does not seem to be
material that would be deleted before his return.

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 2:54 pm

James K. Olmstead wrote:Greg: Further research on this by myself and anyone interested should consider the following:

Thomas B. Cassin mentions a few unknown facts relating:

REDWOOD (?) had OI (?) interest in LHO in summer of 1960 connected to KUJUMP (?). 

I believe KUJUMP deals with CIA interest in the factory that Lee worked in Minsk and that he should not be scared off in providing details.  History shows
us that LHO wrote a very detailed account of his "work" in Minsk and that would be of interest to CIA
upon his return.  So if LHO was returning, any material relating to his return does not seem to be
material that would be deleted before his return.
Jim, others have put in a lot of work on the crypts in your absence.

KUJUMP was the CIA Office of Operations. It "handled all OVERT collection functions" so it is more than possible they had an interest in Oswald's "The Kollective" about the factory.

REDWOOD was a SR Division action indicator.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Tue 07 Nov 2017, 6:16 am

Thanks Greg......I feel like a newbie having been out of this case for so long.  I'm glad that this might fit into Overt Intelligence vs covert.  It fits better
into my earlier work dealing with Radar Defectors and
Oswald in the USSR dealing with LHO as a unknown openly being used mutually by the USSR and the USA.

After thinking about things I remembered that Marina's entry to the US was under the guidelines established under the CIA Act of 1948 and the deletion might have had some connection to that consideration to protect assets used in getting people out of the USSR.

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Tue 07 Nov 2017, 8:40 am

James K. Olmstead wrote:Thanks Greg......I feel like a newbie having been out of this case for so long.  I'm glad that this might fit into Overt Intelligence vs covert.  It fits better
into my earlier work dealing with Radar Defectors and
Oswald in the USSR dealing with LHO as a unknown openly being used mutually by the USSR and the USA.

After thinking about things I remembered that Marina's entry to the US was under the guidelines established under the CIA Act of 1948 and the deletion might have had some connection to that consideration to protect assets used in getting people out of the USSR.
Jim, yes, overt definitely works better.

My "take" on Lee in the USSR will be published soon on the web, along with the rest of my research.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Tue 07 Nov 2017, 8:43 am

Jim Olmstead wrote:After thinking about things I remembered that Marina's entry to the US was under the guidelines established under the CIA Act of 1948 and the deletion might have had some connection to that consideration to protect assets used in getting people out of the USSR.
Interesting thought...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 1:37 am

Sorry its the CIA Act of 1949 not 1948..jko

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 10:46 am

Jim, wasn't there also some discussion between Nixon and his USSR counterpart during his '59 visit about the problem of bringing spouses to either country, and how that should be made simpler?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 1:49 pm

I would have to ck...I believe Nixon helped paved the way for LHO to  enter.

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by BC_II on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 10:56 am

greg parker wrote:Jim, are you aware of the theory that the insertion of mistakes in the name were deliberately done as part of Angleton's mole hunt? I don't have an opinion as I don't see the mole hunt, even if it utilized Oswald and/or his file, as having any significance to the assassination.

Actually Greg, I think Simpich makes a great argument that the Mole Hunt could've been intentionally used by Harvey/Morales, etc, to cover their own asses essentially as well as to frame/implicate LHO in Mexico City. How do you feel about that theory?

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by greg parker on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 11:09 am

BC_II wrote:
greg parker wrote:Jim, are you aware of the theory that the insertion of mistakes in the name were deliberately done as part of Angleton's mole hunt? I don't have an opinion as I don't see the mole hunt, even if it utilized Oswald and/or his file, as having any significance to the assassination.

Actually Greg, I think Simpich makes a great argument that the Mole Hunt could've been intentionally used by Harvey/Morales, etc, to cover their own asses essentially as well as to frame/implicate LHO in Mexico City. How do you feel about that theory?
Bill usually does make a strong case (except when defending his witness list!). 

If Oswald was being used in a mole hunt (and possibly he was) I don't think it had anything to do with the assassination, although (again - possibly) it was something utilized post-assassination in the manner you outline. 

It's all a bit airy-fairy for my liking, and substantially based on misspelllings/wrong names in files - a phenomenon that is rife throughout all of the documentation with countless people and therefore hard to single out as rare examples of how a mole hunt operated.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by BC_II on Mon 13 Nov 2017, 9:04 am

greg parker wrote:
BC_II wrote:
greg parker wrote:Jim, are you aware of the theory that the insertion of mistakes in the name were deliberately done as part of Angleton's mole hunt? I don't have an opinion as I don't see the mole hunt, even if it utilized Oswald and/or his file, as having any significance to the assassination.

Actually Greg, I think Simpich makes a great argument that the Mole Hunt could've been intentionally used by Harvey/Morales, etc, to cover their own asses essentially as well as to frame/implicate LHO in Mexico City. How do you feel about that theory?
Bill usually does make a strong case (except when defending his witness list!). 

If Oswald was being used in a mole hunt (and possibly he was) I don't think it had anything to do with the assassination, although (again - possibly) it was something utilized post-assassination in the manner you outline. 

It's all a bit airy-fairy for my liking, and substantially based on misspelllings/wrong names in files - a phenomenon that is rife throughout all of the documentation with countless people and therefore hard to single out as rare examples of how a mole hunt operated.

Ahhh gotcha and thanks for the insight!

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Re: Oswald's CIA 201 File

Post by James K. Olmstead on Mon 13 Nov 2017, 12:23 pm

The concerns here are not limited to LHO.  Took me
awhile to find the sections of note in the HSCA investigation.  There is concern dealing with the  FPCC  in this in LA and Tampa and travel to Cuba,
that I'm revisiting.  But it helps illustrate a point
on wrong numbers, locations as well as names,
mole hunt or not.....jko

(e) Gilberto Policarpo Lopez allegation
 vs   Eusebio Azcue Lopez

According to the account, Lopez obtained a tourist card in Tampa, Fla., on November 20, 1963, entered Mexico at Nuevo Laredo on November 23, and flew from Mexico City to Havana on November 27. (12O)
*****
11The committee noted the discrepancies in this message, as follows: the spelling of Lopes, for Lopez; the November 13 date and passport number 319962, issued July 13, 1960; and Lopez entering Mexico on foot.

In its 1977 Task Force Report, the CIA cited the several "inaccuracies," as they had been repeated in the report of the Senate Select Committee, as reason to refute the report itself. The TFR pointed out that Lopez' name had been misspelled "Lopes," that it had Lopez entering Mexico on foot, when the CIA had information that he had traveled by automobile; that it listed incorrect digits for Lopez' passport number; that it stated that Lopez' Mexican tourist visa had been issued in Nuevo Laredo, not Tampa;  and it reported that he had stayed at the Cuban Embassy. Based on these inaccuracies, the TFR concluded, "the source was patently and extensively misinformed." The TFR therefore discounted the March cable that held that the information "jibed" with what the CIA's source had earlier reported. (131)

U.S. passport 319962
U.S. passport number was 310162

310162 correct number for passport

Mexican travel form B24553
tourist card No. 24553

correct number M8-24553

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