Texas Police Had Oswald Dossier

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

Thanks Barto. I wonder what happened to the dossier assuming it existed. Perhaps it got deep sixed.

barto wrote:

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

Bart,

[ltr]I posted this on the Ed Forum the other day - it has been helpful in obtaining leads on my MI project - I think that the story of the Hidell card - true or false - is that Jerry Hill and Bill Biggio both say that Hill passed the card info to Bill Biggio and he gave it to the Dept. of Public Safety, and then Army weighed in with what they had in their files...
[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf]
In a highly informative 1978 article by reporter Earl Golz[/url], he wrote that the Texas Rangers (Department of Public Safety - DPS) said had a file on Oswald before 11/22, mostly news clippings, and not much hard intelligence.

Gannaway's aide Bill Biggio at Fair Park was in charge of communications - Golz wrote [url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf]Hill "thinks" he told Biggio about the Hidell and Oswald ID and that Biggio "immediately" passed it on to the Department of Public Safety (DPS - the Texas Rangers)[/url].   

However, Bill Biggio claimed that he called DPS with Hidell information and that DPS told him they had information on both Oswald and Hidell.

Hill tried to split the difference, claiming:  "in all probability Army intelligence got their information from DPS who had it probably ten minutes after we got back here with them."

Gannaway went a step further, saying that If Army Intelligence in San Antonio or Dallas "had any information on Oswald, we didn't know about it."  Revill echoed Gannaway.

Two Army Intelligence sources claimed in 1978 that it had not only no record of "Hidell" before the assassination, but no record of Oswald either!  We now know this information was false, because the file number for "Lee Harvey Oswald" in Army hands was unearthed - the file itself was destroyed in 1973.

Bill

[/ltr]

larryjoe@westok.net	Fri, Nov 8, 2019, 5:49 PM
to me

[ltr]
Yes, I would say that is the correct story - Hill and Biggio passed on the
Hidell name and once it got circulated other groups chimed in, based on
the actual documents from the 112h we can see they had been copied (as had
other groups) by the FBI on the Hidell name question and Jones certainly
had that in his filed.

Nothing really that amazing circa 1963 to find agencies being copied on
memorandum pertaining to a suspected FPCC chapter member, given the FBCC
was viewed as a subversive organization.


> Larry,
>
> I posted this on the Ed Forum the other day - it has been helpful in
> obtaining leads on my MI project - I think that the *story* of the Hidell
> card - true or false - is that Jerry Hill and Bill Biggio both say that
> Hill passed the card info to Bill Biggio and he gave it to the Dept. of
> Public Safety, and then Army weighed in with what they had in their
> files...
>
>
> In a highly informative 1978 article by reporter Earl Golz
> <[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Records%20Release%2012-7-77%20News%20Accounts/Item%20069.pdf[/url]>,
> he wrote that the Texas Rangers (Department of Public Safety - DPS) said
> had a file on Oswald before 11/22, mostly news clippings, and not much
> hard
> intelligence.
>
> Gannaway's aide Bill Biggio at Fair Park was in charge of communications -
> Golz wrote Hill "thinks" he told Biggio about the Hidell and Oswald ID and
> that Biggio "immediately" passed it on to the Department of Public Safety
> (DPS - the Texas Rangers)
> <[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Records%20Release%2012-7-77%20News%20Accounts/Item%20069.pdf[/url]>.
>
>
> However, Bill Biggio claimed that he called DPS with Hidell* information
> *and



> that DPS told him they had information on both Oswald and Hidell.
>
> Hill tried to split the difference, claiming:  "in all probability Army
> intelligence got their information from DPS who had it probably ten
> minutes
> after we got back here with them."
>
> Gannaway went a step further, saying that If Army Intelligence in San
> Antonio or Dallas "had any information on Oswald, we didn't know about
> it."  Revill echoed Gannaway.
>
> Two Army Intelligence sources claimed in 1978 that it had not only no
> record of "Hidell" before the assassination, but no record of Oswald
> either!  We now know this information was false, because the file number
> for "Lee Harvey Oswald" in Army hands was unearthed - the file itself was
> destroyed in 1973.[/ltr]

Bill, apologies for the formatting.  You can't use the insert URL edit function with PDF files. But having looking at this, there seem to be other issues as well that are beyond my meagre skills to work out.

There was no "Hidell" card in the wallet. The initial police reports say nothing about it, despite confirming that the wallet was searched.

We have to go to the testimony of JCS to make an educated guess.

Mr. GRAEF. I believe so; So I called--but to reiterate mainly our best source of employees has been the Texas Employment Commission. They have a larger pool to draw from, so I called--in the course of my dealing with them they have various departments and in the course of dealing with them, I became familiar with one person.
Our particular photographic department is not one that we find experienced personnel readily, and the work we do is, I would say, quite different in various ways from ordinary photography, as most people know it. I will enlarge on that slightly by saying we do many, many things with letters. For example, we can take a straight line of type and we can curve it or bend it or twist it or put it in a circle, for example, and so, rather than just taking pictures of people as ordinary photographers do, this work which we perform for advertising agencies and artists in this area is a matter of training, learning first to use the equipment we have which takes some time, and then the differences in the material that we use.

Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, after he became employed, we worked more or less side by side while he was training and everything, and the contact I had with him--it was necessary to teach him how to operate the cameras and how to opaque negatives and make clean prints and just the general work around there.
Mr. JENNER. Now, Sticking right at that point what was his skill and acquaintance in that connection when he first started?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, he seemed to take a great interest in it as far as skill went--it was, I would say at the beginning approximately the same as anyone else's would have been.
Mr. JENNER. Little or none?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Little or none; yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. All right, proceed.

Mr. OFSTEIN. He did improve somewhat, as far as I could see, but never turned out extreme quality work such as is required.

I would expect that part of the training was to practice with the equipment. Part of that practice would appear to have been duplicating one of his own cards and altering it - including putting on a fake circular stamp and a space for a photo of himself. There was nothing nefarious or sinister in this at all. Part of on-the-job training.

The card was obviously fake and that was down to Oswald's level of ability.

This card would have had his name on it and would have been found at the Paines. After Jones phoned through about the Hidell name on file and that name was linked to the weapons purchases, the card was altered by the police to link Oswald to those purchases.

Not every issue with the records is apart of some grand conspiracy. As you found out with the "second" wallet issue.

Most of what in the frame-up is post-assassination scrambling.

I did do some analysis on Oswald at JCS a while back. Both Graef and Ostein claimed he did not do much overtime in their WC testimonies. Oswald's JCS time sheets appear in the exhibits and tell a different story. I have now lost each one I prepared as a graphic but the essence is that he routine did overtime for JSC. From memory at least half of the weeks he worked there.

What to make of this? As an aside I did a quick Google for this and found that JVB had commented on the same feature on the ED forum in 2004. I immediately felt vindicated and unclean at the same time.

You can find her post here.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/745-lhos-photographic-work/

Steve Thomas wrote:

barto wrote:

Thanks to Malcolm Blunt.

Bart,

“Army Apparently didn't tell Commission of Oswald's Alias”

Dallas Morning News March 19, 1978

in the Weisberg Collection

[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/F Disk/FBI/FBI Records Release 12-7-77 News Accounts/Item 069.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20Records%20Release%2012-7-77%20News%20Accounts/Item%20069.pdf[/url]

"A DPS spokesman said his agency's intelligence unit in Austin had a file on Oswald before the assassination with a considerable number of newspaper clippings... But there really wasn;t much hard intelligence in there, as I reacall".

Steve Thomas

Robert E Jones contacted the DOJ at 3:15 that fateful day and the details in that doc that he used the Hidell ID, had a Sel Serv card bearing that name. Was married to Marina, newspaper clippings, the FPCC episode in N.O. and the defection period are all mentioned in it. 









Golz put down a good story. 

Then there is Jones' HSCA interview also illuminates this.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zh_64C2U0Jm7EwBH13JK8S6y_E23emsw/view?usp=sharing

I have some more stuff which shall be shared soon.

Jones was doing a thorough job.

I found the working on the JCS overtime misinformation by Graef and Ofstein.

Their testimonies relating to the matter appear below.

Mr. OFSTEIN. He seemed to usually arrive on time and expressed a desire to work overtime if he was needed, except during the week at times there were periods when he said he had to go to school and he would leave with some books, I believe they were typing books from the library, and he mentioned that he was going to Crozier Tech at night, and I believe this was one night a week or two at the most. Other than that, he was there every day, the best I recall, and he did work one Saturday.
Mr. JENNER. Did he have difficulty obtaining Saturday work from the company?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Why?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Well, they go on an experience and seniority basis as to overtime. The people with more seniority have a choice as to whether they want to work or not and usually they do.
Mr. JENNER. To make that extra money?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And also, does skill have anything to do with it--you mentioned experience---you meant to include in that experience his skill for the level of attainment?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER, And he had not reached the point at which all of these factors combined enabled him to command or be reasonably fortunate in respect to having overtime work?
Mr. OFSTEIN Right.
Mr. JENNER. Had your skills reached the point at which you had overtime work on Saturday when you sought it?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. What about his aptitudes with respect to the work for which he was being trained?
Mr. OFSTEIN. He always strived to try to do good. It seemed like he was fast, but I noticed that quite a few of his jobs that he did perform did come back within a normal working day.
Mr. JENNER. More than the normal?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; I would say so.
Mr. JENNER. There are errors always made, I suppose, by everybody?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. But your impression is that his percentage of error was above average?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Was there any discussion of that in and among your fellow workers and with Mr. Graef?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes; it was battered around for quite awhile exactly how long, I don't know. About the way that he was turning out a lot of work, because it had to be redone, therefore wasting company materials.
Mr. JENNER. And time?
Mr. OFSTEIN. Yes, sir; and they had decided, I believe, it must have been a month before they finally let him go--to dismiss him.
Mr. JENNER Was that the general scuttlebutt around the place?


Mr. JENNER. Now, is there anything in my off-the-record discussion we have had, and there have been substantially none, that took place during that interlude that I have failed to bring out?
Mr. GRAEF. I might add this--I'll let you repeat that question in a moment.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. GRAEF. This thought occurred--I was trying to think a moment ago what I was going to do, because there was something that I wanted to make mention

---

of for what it's worth, is that at this point during his employment with us, he was very anxious for overtime work.
Mr. JENNER. Is this the 4- or 5-month period you are talking about now?
Mr. GRAEF. Yes; that's correct, which if I may assume, he needed the money. It was invariably Friday afternoon--and Saturday, of course, is an overtime day to us and quite frequently we run Saturday and Saturday work we do at time and a half, which comes into play and in fact, invariably Friday afternoon he would volunteer and ask if we needed him the next day. Then, unfortunately, of course, as I have mentioned, his work didn't come up to the quality that we needed so it was very, very seldom that we ever brought him in unless we were in a real bad--had an urgent work that absolutely had to go, but he desperately wanted to be called in on Saturday for overtime work.

Now for the reality......looking through the detailed timesheets that appear in the appropriate Volume it shows quite a different picture. 

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0281a.htm

I have shown the Saturdays that he was recorded performing his duties at JSC. These appear as red dots.



Here are the actual hours for those Saturdays......

Nov-03	7.25
Nov-10	8.75
Nov-17	8
Nov-24	7.25
Dec-01	9
Dec-08	9
Dec-29	9
Jan-12	9.25
Jan-26	9
Feb-16	8
Mar-09	7.5
Mar-16	9.5
Mar-23	10
Mar-30	8.25
Apr-06	9.5
	129.2

In addition there were numerous weekdays that were n excess of 8.5 hours or more.

Clearly they both were speaking with forked tongues......why?

Bart,

Jones specifically denied to the HSCA that he said anything about any Hidell Selective Card during that call to the FBI.

It is also interesting to note that Hidell is being referred to as a separate person, albeit incorrectly as ANA J HIDELL WHO HAS REPORTEDLY BING DISTRIBUTING HANDS OFF CUBA LITERATURE.

As pointed out by Senator Dodd during his questioning of Jones... there was no Ana J Hidell because what it really meant to say was AN AJ HIDELL WHO REPORTEDLY ECT...
Jones agreed hat this was more than possible. The FBI agent who took the notes either misread those nates when typing it up, or the secretary misread it.

As with "OH Lee", this allegation of Hidell being an alias was the result of yet another stuff-up that they managed to turn to their advantage.

Thanks for posting those JCS records Colin,

Not sure why they lied about the amount of overtime he did when they also provided the paperwork that proved he did a fair amount of it. All I can think of it is that they were sticking to the story that they got rid of him for being below average - a story which does not fit the amount of overtime shown.

What I see that I regard as important is that the first two days were designated training days and both witnesses nominated the importance of learning how to use the specialized equipment used to do manipulate images and curve lettering for advertising. I believe it was during those 2 days that he made the fake card because it provided the opportunity to practice with that equipment - eg in making that fake date stamp and changing the layout of the card from his own real one to incorporate a photo. 

I'm not the first to suggest that he made the card at JCS, but I am probably the first to o to the obvious conclusion - he made it as practice for his work - not for any intel purpose. What I do not buy is that he put the name Hidell on it. I think the cops changed it from Oswald to Hidell to tie him to the weapons purchaes.

greg_parker wrote:Bart,

Jones specifically denied to the HSCA that he said anything about any Hidell Selective Card during that call to the FBI.

It is also interesting to note that Hidell is being referred to as a separate person, albeit incorrectly as ANA J HIDELL WHO HAS REPORTEDLY BING DISTRIBUTING HANDS OFF CUBA LITERATURE.

As pointed out by Senator Dodd during his questioning of Jones... there was no Ana J Hidell because what it really meant to say was AN AJ HIDELL WHO REPORTEDLY ECT...
Jones agreed hat this was more than possible. The FBI agent who took the notes either misread those nates when typing it up, or the secretary misread it.

As with "OH Lee", this allegation of Hidell being an alias was the result of yet another stuff-up that they managed to turn to their advantage.

Greg,

was well aware of that there is even an article coming from me regarding this. And two/three years ago I pointed this out in my Anatomy Of Oswald's Interrogations paper.

It was the timing aspect of it that was highlighted in my post above.