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alex_wilson
Posts : 938
Join date : 2019-04-10

Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson Empty Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson

Sun 11 Jul 2021, 7:38 pm
Some of the members, and the regular lurkers, who are interested in discussing ( and sharing) the kind of pioneering research this forum has built it's enviable reputation upon, must be getting mighty sick of reading ( no doubt from me in particular!) the constant regurgitations of H and L talking points.

And the constant references to certain members of another forum; one that advertises itself ( apparently without irony) as the Education Forum.

I can understand your frustration. But part of this forum's unique appeal is it"s willingness to treat long established conspiracy shibboleths, with their sometimes intimidating aura of age and sanctity  , as simple facts. 

Some of the more pervasive H and L myths have become so well entrenched in the orthodox conspiracy narrative it's become almost heretical to question their provenance.

Certain individuals seem more interested in creating new " mysteries" than solving the few genuine remaining puzzles, thus forever enshrining this case in a haze of mystique, almost quasi religious in it's icons and symbolism, that ensures it will remain forever unsolved.

Preserving the conspiracy itself, the bigger and more convoluted the better, seems to be the primary aim of a certain type of researcher.

A cynic might even say that " the JFK assassination conspiracy" has become a cottage industry of it's own, part of the truly bizarre , and at times post truth, post Orwellian phenomena , known as the " truth movement"

Providing a lucrative ( not only in the financial sense) ready made market , for the most part comprising of frightened, sometimes vulnerable people looking for easy answers and reassurance.

Putting it bluntly I ( and i'm pretty certain all my fellow H and L " critics" too) couldn't give a damn what Jim Hargrove, or whomever, choose to believe in the privacy of their own homes.

If they want to believe that magical pixies live at the bottom of their garden, or that there was a second Marguerite Oswald, who, after 22nd November 1963, seemingly, along with her equally elusive " son" mastered , what along with the quest for the fabled Philosopher's Stone, had eluded magicians, alchemists and necromancers since the dawn of recorded history: namely the power of invisibility, with husky all American son and dumpy fake mom vanishing into the ether like a latter day Count  Saint Germain, then best of luck to them.

Harvey and Lee is greeted with such scepticism, bordering on derision, not because of the altruistic motives of the " critics" who want to save the believers from themselves, God help me if my life grew so bereft of meaning I found myself tormented by the thought of John Butler or Sandy Larsen believing there was two Oswalds and two Marguerites.

It is greeted with such overwhelming negativity, bordering on ridicule ,because aside from the fact that the central premise is, by any definition, ridiculous, but also because it relies on " evidence" that has either been disproved, misrepresented or manufactured.

The goal of the loudest most impassioned proselytizers is to  spread the Gospel of Harvey and Lee. Not to attempt to unravel the very real conspiracy that culminated in the assassination of JFK.

It would indeed be churlish to deny the great service John Armstrong provided by gathering together, and making available a vast collection of primary documentation. It is tinged with more than just a hint of hubris that his grand theory was ultimately debunked by the documents he himself collected.

To see the few remaining devotees ignoring any criticism, discussing the phantasmal polyglot Hungarian HARVEY as if he was a real person is sadly pathetic, a vivid illustration of the debilitating power of unthinking belief 

However when they allow inquisitive minded newbies to repeat long discredited factoids then the scene takes on a whole other, altogether
darker timbre

Believe what you want just don't believe unthinkingly. Don't be persuaded to close your eyes. Don't sacrifice your senses for the sake of belief.

On the contrary seek out other perspectives. 

Outside the tiny claustrophobic conspiracy bubble, the moment the rickety structure is exposed to fresh air and sunlight, H and L crumbles to dust.

Read about contemporary intelligence operations. The political climate , and indeed the internal politics of the CIA. Read about standard tradecraft. 

Think about it. Nevermind the so called " anomalies" if there was a HARVEY why not just give him another identity? Why go through the decade long double doppelganger pantomime? 

Anyway when examined closely each one of the anomalies have perfectly rational explanations. Or else they weren't anomalies in the first place. 

Stripling, Palmer McBride, Dolly Shoe, Myra DaRouse, Allen Felde and his horn rimmed spectacle wearing HARVEY, Myrtle Evans, Dorothy Marcum, the Mastoidectomy... the list goes on and on..

Then there's the photos...The Bronx Zoo HARVEY , the Frankenstein Oswald , the Magic Tooth photo...

Not to mention the central premise... the whole purpose of the caper was to replace an American with a native Russian speaker...

Leaving aside the fact that the whole idea is counterintuitive- the defector wasn't there to blend in, he was an American , disillusioned with his country , and eager to sample the fabled " Worker's Paradise", so why have an Eastern European impersonate an American?- the Oswald they call HARVEY was without doubt a native English speaker.

At the end of the day H and L still has the American born Lee Harvey Oswald up in the 6th floor window. It has him shooting Officer Tippit too

By misinterpreting facts and witness statements, twisting them to fit a predetermined conclusion it's no different than the Warren Report..

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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lanceman
Posts : 41
Join date : 2021-02-04

Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson Empty Re: Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson

Mon 12 Jul 2021, 1:42 pm
I understand that covert operations involve subterfuge and muddying the waters. That said, it seemed to me that Harvey and Lee was the equivalent of epicycles in early astronomy. Complicated explanations to explain what appeared to be anomalies so that the earth could remain the center of the universe. So I never got into it.

Is any of Armstrong’s work of any use?
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alex_wilson
Posts : 938
Join date : 2019-04-10

Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson Empty Re: Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson

Tue 13 Jul 2021, 2:27 am
A perfect analogy Lanceman.

On more than one level.

Even though the (still widespread) belief that, up until the Renaissance, the consensus amongst the leading contemporary scientists ( or natural philosophers) was that the Earth was flat, is now known to be a myth.( Although the contemporary Flat Earth Movement is apparently expanding..Messrs Butler and Larsen what say you? Humanity needs thinkers of your depth and vision)

From the days of Eratosthenes, and probably long before, it was widely known, and accepted that the Earth was indeed spherical. However certain scientific advances, and new discoveries were considered dangerous to the established authority.

If knowledge is power then ignorance is weakness. One of the most effective methods by which the few govern the many is by jealousy hoarding knowledge. Allowing the masses to believe everything but know nothing

Unsurprisingly , two of the three classes , into which Medieval society was divided, in Western Europe at least:those who fight( the warrior caste, the landless knights, the barons, the great landlords and finally, at the very apex the King) , those who pray( the church) sought to maintain, enforce perhaps would be a more appropriate word, the status quo, that forced the great burden( manual labour, farming, the great masses of footsoldiers slogging behind the finely caprisoned knights on their great warhorses) on the third class- those who work 
For socio political, and especially religious reasons certain ideas were suppressed., Prohibited. Deemed heretical. Those authors who saw their work placed on the Index of Prohibited Books, could face a very real threat. To their lives as well as their livelihood

Most famously Galileo Galilei's confirmation of Copernican heliocentrism was forcibly, some might say, ruthlessly stifled by the Vatican.

Then embroiled in a brutal cycle of reformation and counter reformation that would culminate in the Thirty Years War.

Although Galileo perhaps could have been a little more tactful. Presenting his discoveries in the form of a philosophical dialogue, he put his opponents argument into the mouth of a character named Simplicio

Easily recognisable as his soon to be former friend ( and enemy) Pope Urban VIII

All researchers should be ( imho at least) in a permanent state of becoming. Never afraid of new information. Always willing to reshape, revise and, if needs be, totally rework and rewrite their theory.

To cling onto proveably erroneous material, for the sake of a beloved theory. Or to attempt to stifle truth( with a small t) for the sake of a greater Truth( with a capital T) is not research, its religion

Hargrove and co are the equivalent of Simplicios.. except they put their own ( or rather Armstrong's words) into their own mouths

Ignoring pertinent questions, while at the very same time whining about the " critics" or so called " detractors" who are afraid to debate them, is far more damaging to their cause than any amount of unpersuasive or even unresponsive replies.

Attempting to get the so called " detractors" banned is just pathetic.

Not only that it's hypocrisy of the worst kind. The heinous offenses Jeremy, Jonathan and RC D supposedly committed.. that so upset Mr Butler's fragile sensibilities, have at the very least been equalled, if not surpassed by those paragons of gentlemanly debate. 

I didn't see Messrs Zartman or Butler rush to complain when Professor Larsen was labelling his opponents " the ignorati" , or that utterly vile cretin Praelector Michael Clark was using the imagery of Der Sturmer no less... calling people vermin and issuing bloodcurdling calls for them to be stomped on and administered " kicsks(sic) in the head"...for disagreeing about it fucking theory on an assassination research forum??? Talk about loosing all sense of perspective...

Not to mention Josephs and Hargrove gleefully and promiscuously throwing around all sorts of slurs... openly labelling anyone who had the temerity to question H and L as disinformation agents or COINTELPRO operatives...

Talk about loosing all sense of reality!!

I admit it's partly personal with me. I feel like I was conned. Withholding crucial information, denying readers the right to make fully informed conclusions, well that's not my idea of " truth seeking" By not even mentioning the mastoidectomy, by performing alchemy with witness statements and documents, by being less than forecoming with crucial details that damaged his overall thesis, Armstrong denied his readers the chance to make a fully informed decision.

He may well be a good kind man, and no doubt he is, but IMHO he performed a great misservice by allowing a mixture of misinterpretation and misunderstanding to cause so much animosity, not to mention controversy.

Like Judyth Vary Baker or Ralph Cinque Armstrong wittingly or not provided Warren Commission defenders with almost unlimited ammunition. The case for two Oswalds, as he presents it, invites ridicule. 

mHowever Armstrong certainly provided a very great service by accumulating, and making available a vast trove of primary documentation.

He could do an even better one by admitting he was mistaken.

As more evidence emerges you change your views accordingly.

Thats nothing to be ashamed of. On the contrary it's shows a great deal of character and integrity.

Of course you are absolutely right too Lanceman, intelligence operations can indeed be murky, not only that they are often designed to confuse and indeed bamboozle any unwanted interlopers or snoopers...or humble civilians who accidentally trespass into their domain.

But the techniques known as tradecraft, and indeed many contemporary operations are pretty well known. Several having been meticulously studied.

H and L not only breaks most, if not all the fundamental rules of tradecraft, the central premise is counterintuitive. And it contradicts many firmly eaestablish historical facts

Simplicity and compartmentalization. As I understand it those were the key factors when assessing the viability of projected operations. Take all possibilities into account. In this period the CIA certainly made some horrendous blunders not to mention questionable decisions. But this caper defies both logic and reason. To go through all this pantomime ? For what purpose? They already had REDCAP. I don't think the H and L gang understand how ridiculously counterintuitive the notion is. To send a non native Russian speaking Eastern European doppelganger ( who has spent the last decade or so traipsing around the Continental United States with his fake mom after undergoing an unnecessary mastoidectomy at a hospital that didn't yet exist I hasten to add) to the Soviet Union to pose as a disaffected American marine???

What if the Soviets HAD kicked him out?? All that work for 3 days??

Standard procedure, if a theoretical HARVEY, had existed, would have meant providing him with a false identity. An American, a dead infant. There was absolutely no reason, to embark upon an immensely convoluted decade long double doppelganger project. That relied upon two unrelated boys turning out to look virtually identical. Think of the logistics. The planning. For what? What possible benefits could be worth all the risk and all the rigmarole?

What about compartmentalization? The H and L theory has practically half of Louisiana knowing. I'm exaggerating of course. But Jack Ruby? David Ferrie? Uncle Dutz? 

Anyway the central premise is proveably false.

The one and only LHO was a native English speaker. There's absolutely no question about that. 

Puff!!

That one fact and H and L vanishes in a cloud of smoke..

To me they adopt the exact tactics the Warren Commission staff employed. Trying to make a narrative fit into a predetermined outcome.

And for exactly the same ends too..

To keep the American born Lee Harvey Oswald up at the 6th floor window

Nothing Jeremy Jonathan RC D or indeed anyone here could possibly say could ever possibly be more offensive than attempting to foist images like the so called missing tooth photo on well intentioned researchers

Long touted as a bedrock of the theory there's an obvious thick black marker line obscuring the mouth, and bleeding onto the bottom lip

Hargrove is a salesman. Nothing else. It could just as easily be miracle acne medication or vacuum cleaners..

He doesn't care what people say about H and L as long as they say something..

As long as he can keep the treadmill spinning..

After all that Lanceman, to answer your question IMHO Armstrong , by creating the archive at Baylor performed an estimable service.

He could perform an even greater one though. There's literally decades worth of bullshit, red herrings and fairy tales propagated by fake witnesses swirling around out there, Armstrong could do a real service by removing a few of the most egregious ones...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson Empty Re: Confessions of a Doppelganger by William Wilson

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