CRIB'AGE talking cribs n parts

Cribs of the rich and famous 



JUNE OSWALD IN CRIB 
(not a wash tub)

What crib parts would you keep in a 24-37" long blanket roll?



Marina says she specifically goes into garage to get crib parts from blanket
Sees a rifle butt and doesn't retrieve any crib parts(?)

Again which parts of a crib would be kept in such fashion... crib legs?
Was the crib on the floor at Ruth's 
Was there even detachable legs?
Most if not all 1950-60s cribs end walls have the legs built in.
Greg and I looked this over and I'll let him comment as to his interpretation of this is.

I find it difficult to believe the crib part and rifle butt story as is.

There were no crib parts in the blanket when found... where were the parts if not in the blanket?

Did you have crib in 1950-60's w/detachable legs? 
PLEASE POST PIC

There is also a pic of Marina placing Rachel(?) in a crib soon (while still at Ruths) after assassination I am looking for.

MINSK AND UNCROPPED IMAGE
CRIB IN APT.

Lee Harvey's first daughter was born in 1962, and instead of a crib, the baby slept in a small washtub. What kind of a life was that? .

"Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. ...His greatest objection was that people helped them too much, they were showering things on Marina. Marina had a hundred dresses given. to her. The baby had a crib. My daughter didn't have it when I came to the United States, and I didn't have one-hundredth of what Marina had because I didn't know anybody, and I didn't want to know anybody when I came over. I was in such circumstances. So, anyway, he objected to that lavish help, because Marina was throwing it into his face.

About 1 week after the return from New Orleans, Marina Oswald was looking in the garage for parts to the baby’s crib and thought that the parts might be in the blanket. When she started to open the blanket, she saw the stock of the rifle.C4-108C4-108 1 H 26, 52 (Marina Oswald)

Which pic is the one of baby in a crib?
Taken by Imperial reflex.



Marina says it was METALLIC crib parts... screws, bolts, brackets..?? 
it's never "nailed" down which parts and where they were found. 
Of note is the Metallic parts would clink about and be noticeable loose in a blanket.
Yet Marina said she never touched that blanket roll, so it'd be difficult for her to know clinking metal parts were even in the blanket.
Certainly wasn't long wooden/metal legs or even anything long.


DeMohrenschildt on Bouhe buying a 40 dollar crib for Marina.
A 400 Dollar crib in todays dollars.

So an expensive new crib.

So we are after the Imperial reflex photo from the collection showing an older child and infant in crib.

?is this Ruth's kids?

Or is photo supposedly taken after the birth of Rachel!?!?!?!

Please post this crib pic
Thanks
Ed

crib parts 

 


Otoh, Mike described metal tubes 30" long with an end at a 45 degree angle which he thought might be a small foldable spade.

I may be having  a false memory here, but I do have a vague memory of long metal rods beng used in cribs back in the 60s and 70s.

Can't find any crib parts that long now online - let alone ones that would be long enough to pick up and move around wrapped in a blanket, without rattling them around and perhaps having them fall out. 

The crib photo, I thought had been posted here previously? Had assumed it was taken either at Neely St or in NO. In fact, one of the Neely St threads is where I thought it was posted.

Thanks Greg,

Scant number of Neely street photos are 5 in total.
133a, b, c
and two photos of June on balcony., just a blanket under her.
No crib pics at Neely unless it's with Imperial Reflex and I'm not finding it.
No pictures of family etc inside Neely were taken either...
I guess that's why these places were such a mystery for so long, until Debra Conway's ex took pics of inside Neely, and others took photos of Elsbeth and finally were online in 90's.

If you know there are pics other than that Imperial Reflex photo of 'older child and infant in crib' let me know!!!!

Cheers, Ed

I don't know of any Elsbeth pics off hand...was there one of Lee in sweater arms folded leaning in doorway (Jake uses it for Prayerman similarities)

Still looking for Imperial Reflex list of photos.

Oswald’s crib that Marguerite sold in '42 when Lee was 3yrs old.



Note rods the front rides up and down on each side

Those seem to be possible Metallic Parts to assemble a crib....

Note lengths

Same type of crib, different finish.
Note rods

Parts were the long rods.
Wrapped in the baby's blanket.
Lovingly tied up.
And they were not in the blanket,,,, after Marina removed them to put the slide front on the crib... thus blanket goes limp when lifted up
Blanket is spread open at one end by DPD detectives to more resemble gun case (?)
The bulge isn't from scope but brackets and casters...

Imagine the long 'straight' rods tied at each end in a bundle wrapped by the blanket with misc pieces in the middle.

Make sense?

I don't buy for a second a disassembled carcano was laying about, kicked about, and utterly disregarded by Lee on every previous weekend.

Would you:
A) Allow Ruth, Michael, Marina and children to move the items into their home/garage without asking care be taken
B) Allow anyone including children to go into garage and open the bundle
C) Allow scoped rifle costing xyz money to be left on concrete floor never once moving it to safer spot...
OR
D) It's freaking metal crib rods....WHO CARES, leave em on floor

Ed.Ledoux wrote:

Same type of crib, different finish.
Note rods

Brilliant Ed! Yes, those are the kind of rods I thought I was recalling from all those years ago. Thin metal rods. Perfect length and with "bent" end as per Mike.

Meanwhile, on a shelf, wrapped in crinkly paper were Ruth's old curtain rods for use by the Oswalds when they moved. 

Oswald allegedly was in the garage that morning and left the light on. Careless bastard! Was he in search of something to put his lunch in and took the rods out of the homemade bag for his cheese sanger (sandwhich!) and apple? 

Buell says Lee said the bag had curtain rods. That was a lie - by Buell - but probably based on a discussion about the rods being given to  Lee.

Marina says she saw rifle in the blanket while looking for crib parts. That was a lie. She was looking for crib parts and found crib parts.

Basically, after Lee is dead, anything goes, baby! Whatever you want to throw into the narrative, we can arrange it!

Mick_Purdy wrote:Buell says Lee said the bag had curtain rods. That was a lie - by Buell - but probably based on a discussion about the rods being given to  Lee.


Both Buell and Linnie Mae lied. Oswald never did utter those words about curtain rods being in a bag or sack on the Friday. The real point is why did they find it necessary to lie about imaginary curtain rods. Sorry a bit off topic - so I apologise.

It is all germaine to the frame in general and to the bag in particular.

We have four different stories on the contents of said bag.

Curtain rods on 11/22 by Buell allegedly quoting Lee

Crib parts pre 22/11 according to Marina allegedly only as a guess that she herself allegedly proved wrong

Rifle according to Marina after allegedly seeing it in blanket pre 11/22

Lunch on 11/22 according to Lee as quoted by his interrogators.

________________________

Finding crib parts that match what Mike Paine described as what he could feel inside the blanket, to me, is a hugely significant brealkthrough - I would go so far as to say as big as any other we have accomplished when you consider the ramifications. It makes me both happy and angry.

Happy to oblige Greg.
Mystery solved... (that's Crib'age)



No carcano, no 7 pound rifle, no rifle butt, no dozen screws and pieces loose in a blanket.

No folding camp shovel or tent poles


This mystery didn't make it from the cradle to the grave. Were not in the stinkhole anymore.,
But pegging out.

A 'thin' story, 'crinkly' cover up, and 'dime store' detectives was an awful flimsy combination and that's not even talking about the sack! 


This one's in the bag (and no not a sea bag)
Cheers, Ed

Maybe I was slow on the uptake, probably, but I wasn't understanding what it was you were leading up to and then BAM, bombs away. I was kind of stunned once it finally hit me. Well done!!!

What of this scenario: Lee goes to the garage looking for the curtain rods per Ruth's suggestion. He thinks he's found them, but it's the crib rods. Buel asks and Lee answers honestly that they are curtain rods, but they ain't. Just a way for it to be an honest exchange. Probably a reason why it can't be so. It's just something that popped into my mind.

Jake_Sykes wrote:Maybe I was slow on the uptake, probably, but I wasn't understanding what it was you were leading up to and then BAM, bombs away. I was kind of stunned once it finally hit me. Well done!!!

What of this scenario: Lee goes to the garage looking for the curtain rods per Ruth's suggestion. He thinks he's found them, but it's the crib rods. Buel asks and Lee answers honestly that they are curtain rods, but they ain't. Just a way for it to be an honest exchange. Probably a reason why it can't be so. It's just something that popped into my mind.

As a rulle, I think that is always the best way forward... ruling out innocent explanations first.

But the contents of the blanket were not wrapped in paper.

This is from Brussell's "Last Words" so I can't vouch for the accuracy and it has to be said, nothing like it appaears in any of the interrogation reports

"I don't recall the shape, it may have been a small sack, or a large sack; you don't always find one that just fits your sandwiches."

I have difficuty believing that is an exact quote because I fail to see how Oswald would not recall if the sack was large or small. If it is correct (even if paraphrased), then to me, it is evasive. And an evasive anwer on the sack would be indicative of having something to hide (such as it being big enough for a rifle).  My problem with him offering such an evasive answer is that every bit of my work points to Oswald being innocent and unknowing of any plot. 

But the second part of the quote at last, rings true because it supports Oswald scrounging around in the garage looking for something to carry his lunch in - eventually settling on (imo) the homemade sack used to store the curtain rods.

Ruth tesified that that the rods were stored in the same cheap paper that Buell dscribed as Oswald's sack. And that sack was no longer holding the rods when the Warren Commission came to the garage to survey Alladin's Cave. 

Since we now know that Buell has not averse to telling porkies (lies),  I think he was coersed into the curtain rods story under threat of being charged as an accessory. t was neither here nor there whether Oswald told him it was lunch or rods. That part has no effect on the police case. The rods story was concocted as an excuse for Oswald to be at the Paine home and was probably based on at least a partial truth in that Rut most likely did give the rods to Lee for an apartment.

[url=https://servimg.com/view/17602890/1708][/url]

Excellent!

The baby's blanket held the baby's crib slide front rods.

The cheap paper sack held curtain rods.
Sack was made by Ruth. (Admits rods current sack is similar to original sack she made!?!)

Rods as a description is avoided by Marina in describing the parts in the blanket.(Metallic crib parts) which unless they were hard, long, and had bend at end(s?) are not screws and brackets.

As noted by Greg the curtain rods are still there.
Ruth obfuscated her answer about the curtain rods being wrapped, or needing their own wrapping.
She says Lee wouldn't know where she keeps the wrapping paper (nor string) in the bottom dresser drawer...
Says Michael was interested in the curtain rods and wrapping paper about a week or so after assassination (so around Nov 28 -Dec 7?)

Says they are still there and wrapped in paper.
AND not a word from DPD about them... nor does Ruth offer them up during this time period.
She indicated FBI might have been there but again deflects, doesn't recall...








Lee's lunch was cheese sandwich and apple, brought from Ruth's.
Ruth agrees, in her Quakerly way, there was cheese, bread and fruit at her house.
She does her best to eliminate possibility Lee made lunch that morning... sees no evidence of food missing as Ruth must count the apples and bread slices before going to bed....

Absent from Ruth's were lunch sacks, Ruth's kids were not attending school and packing lunches for Michael is unlikely (at this time) so Ruth doesn't have them, and mentioned Lee never making lunch before so again no need for Ruth to have lunch sacks.
She does buy groceries but that might be over kill for a cheese sandwich.

Lee doesn't buy his Lunch Friday.

Lee is seen eating by numerous employees at lunch time.

Only truthful thing in FBI reports etc, is Lee likely threw the bag away... , after eating his lunch he tossed it in the trash.

Didn't the DPD, FBI, enter into evidence curtain rods and their brown paper wrapping from Ruth's November 22nd
November 23rd
November 24th
NOVEMBER
DECEMBER
...ANY TIME?

odd is the list of things NOT offered up but found at/by Ruth/'s  

I feel like I'm being jacked around, by Ruth, her curtains and stories about them, the Museum Of Ruth and their faithful recreations.

The crib changes in Marina's room.
The cheap metal curtain rods are on Ruth's bedroom window and then are removed




Standing on the blanket is pure theater by Ruth!!

Stepping on the blanket and being asked if any paper or crinkly sounds are heard is just too much!!!

Is it that there was paper in the blanket, and now it's gone...???
It's these intimated questions that stand out, as with question about a neighbor inquiring about Ruth having any curtain rods she wasn't using!
This isn't a question out of the blue it's based on a report or statement.
Same throughout Ruth's questioning are questions posed the questioner has the answers to but Ruth skates around her answers thereby defeating the questions put to her.

Neighbors would include Roberts and by default Fraiser/Randles

ALLEN GRANT PHOTO 11/23 Curtains on rods in Marina's bedroom
With Odum loitering at Ruth's (and Ilya Mamatov?)


Ruth digs holes as fast as she fills them
So no bag was made by Ruth.
So venetian blinds were not in a paper "sack"
But Ruth obfuscated again on the curtain rods having any sack or wrapping even though she supposedly wrapped them.
The venetian package was just paper folded over yet a 7 and a half inch approximation is given for the blinds package width.
No such approximate size seemed given or asked for the curtain rods package width.
Curious

Ruth still has a lot to answer for. Unfortunately nobody asks her the hard questions.

Ed.Ledoux wrote:

So we are after the Imperial reflex photo from the collection showing an older child and infant in crib.

?is this Ruth's kids?

Or is photo supposedly taken after the birth of Rachel!?!?!?!

Please post this crib pic
Thanks
Ed

If these photos really were taken with the Inperial Reflex than a key question for me is who took them and when. If at least one kid is Ruth's then they potentially precede the BYP. In this case, if at least some were  taken by Marina, them she knew full well how to use the Imperial Reflex at the time of the BYP and did not need Oswald's instructions. If they show both Oswald;s girls, and at least one was taken by Marina, then she should have been able to recall the alera and use of it a bit easier.

I would like to know the location, date, names of kids and photographer for each pic.If it turned out for instance, that Ruth took them and one of both are hers, then I would suggest she owned he camera.

Did Ruth order two rifles, one 36" and one 42" to use as curtain rods in her bedroom?

I mean, she testifies initially that one window was 36" wide but in a later seession,  claims she thinks she estimated too high and changes it to 30". She also adds that the other window was 42". 

To my knowledge, no one ever measured them for the records. 

Let's assume that she was truthful with the first "estimate" of 36" (I have estimate in quotes because I think it likely she knew exactly what width they were). What we are left with is that she had curtain rods that needed to extend to 36" and 42" respectively.  But when not fully extended, measured somewhere from 27 to 30 inches (from memory) - the length of the sack claimed to be seen by Buell and Linnie-Mae.

And the coincidence of the measurements never dawned on the Warren Commision?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but barring freak coincidence, there is something screwy going on big time. 

That's without even getting into the BYP and what rifle is really in those. 

It really is like an extended magician's trick where different sized rifles "n" rods are interchangeable at every wave of the wand.

Couldn't agree more