New Essay by forum member

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Congrats to Tom G. This, along with the essays of John Manning, count among the finest examples of investigative journalism to be found on the case.

Warning: it is 50 pages of tightly packed dynamite. If reality is only for those who can't handle drugs, historical research papers are not for those who can't handle minutia. If that is you, you may be better off reading Lee and Me or the collected works of Chairman Brian.

https://gregrparker.com/rethinking-oswalds-mail/

[JFK_FNG]

Thanks Greg, 

It actually started with the Hidell/P.O. Box thread on this forum. I mentioned the lack of postal clerk endorsement on Oswald's 5/14/63 change of address order in a comment, and that I didn't know the significance of it, and it kind of grew from there. Thanks to Bart too for providing some documents I didn't have before the Malcolm Blunt archive was online. 

Tom

[Ed.Ledoux]

Nicely done man!!!!
So much makes sense with proper perspective.

This connects in a way to something I'm interested in concerning the Fbi Lab, so I started collecting documents on it.
I am kicking around the evidence regarding the anterior neck wound but based on the physical evidence.

Much thanks to multitudes of researchers and especially lawsuits and FOIA requests by Weisberg, has pointed me to what is missing.
Much of the evidence was withheld in the lab.
Much of what was presented was massaged.
Conflicting accounts and tests were shown.
IMO The President's shirt and tie can tell us more than any Humes/Boswell autopsy ever could, with all it is missing.
After compilation of all available materials and reading every discussion it has become clearer, much like this essay.

Really enjoyed reading this as it kept to the path and didn't stray into the weeds.
Letting the evidence speak for itself.... is the proper way to evaluate it.
Again this is great work!
Cheers,
Ed

PS I will bounce some ideas around and see what you surmise.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Nicely done man!!!!
So much makes sense with proper perspective.

This connects in a way to something I'm interested in concerning the Fbi Lab, so I started collecting documents on it.
I am kicking around the evidence regarding the anterior neck wound but based on the physical evidence.

Much thanks to multitudes of researchers and especially lawsuits and FOIA requests by Weisberg, has pointed me to what is missing.
Much of the evidence was withheld in the lab.
Much of what was presented was massaged.
Conflicting accounts and tests were shown.
IMO The President's shirt and tie can tell us more than any Humes/Boswell autopsy ever could, with all it is missing.
After compilation of all available materials and reading every discussion it has become clearer, much like this essay.

Really enjoyed reading this as it kept to the path and didn't stray into the weeds.
Letting the evidence speak for itself.... is the proper way to evaluate it.
Again this is great work!
Cheers,
Ed

PS I will bounce some ideas around and see what you surmise.

Ed,

This is what keeps me going. 

I am in awe of the output from members and a couple of our lurkers. 

Which reminds me... your crib parts work needs to get more exposure. You nailed it.

[JFK_FNG]

Thanks Ed, 

The official story on P.O. Box 2915 and Oswald's mailing addresses is one of those things that seems to have gone essentially unchallenged since the Warren Commission, and after the discussion in the Hidell thread and flipping through documents on MFF I felt compelled to take a stab at it. 

I'd love to see a lone nutter try to explain away documented suppression of the Oswalds' 1963 change of address orders - critical evidence bearing on the mail order murder weapons - and of course that's just the tip of the iceberg. Hopefully some other people will look into this stuff because there's so many more interesting details and it's just another angle that casts serious doubt on the entire case against Oswald.

I'd love to see what you've been working on with the Lab/neck wound. I'm currently making my way through Pat Speer's website and have found it interesting, but I'm overall pretty clueless on the medical evidence other than what I've read in various books.

[Vinny]

Thanks Greg and Tom. Have started reading it. Quite meticulously researched.

[Ed.Ledoux]

Much appreciated Tom.
You've set the bar for the research into the weapon orders and the Post Office's Propaganda.
Bravo mate!!
There was always a nagging bit Greg has said many times....
The dates for Marina and Ruth's outings and claimed weapon delivery dates are conveniently overlapping!
You made his case ROKC solid with all the supporting information.
Outstanding work, we are excited to see what else precipitates out!!

Appreciate your interest in the neck/clothing.
I have Pat Speer's comments from EdForum, newsgroups and his work/thoughts on this in my data.
His point was any high velocity missle from a military rifle passing through the neck wound will disrupt vessels and tissue to a MUCH greater extent than what was seen at Parkland.
Thusly there is no case for anterior neck wound to be a part and parcel of the SBT.
This is a part I will definitely be discussing.
I am seeking one or two pieces of evidence.
Will send you a pm.

Cheers
Ed

[Greg_Doudna]

Significant meticulous research and article Tom Gram. I only wish there were a way to print it out (impossible on my computer to find a way--no ability to copy and paste it to a printable page either).

[JFK_FNG]

Significant meticulous research and article Tom Gram. I only wish there were a way to print it out (impossible on my computer to find a way--no ability to copy and paste it to a printable page either).

Thanks Greg,

Check your PMs, should be able to get you a printer-friendly copy.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Significant meticulous research and article Tom Gram. I only wish there were a way to print it out (impossible on my computer to find a way--no ability to copy and paste it to a printable page either).

Thanks Greg,

Check your PMs, should be able to get you a printer-friendly copy.

Just to clarify guys... all the essays on my site are downloadable. On the top right, you will see an arrow pointing down into a tray. That is the download button.
https://gregrparker.com/rethinking-oswalds-mail/

[Greg_Doudna]

Just to clarify guys... all the essays on my site are downloadable. On the top right, you will see an arrow pointing down into a tray. That is the download button.
https://gregrparker.com/rethinking-oswalds-mail/

I admit I'm not the most tech-savvy pencil in the box, but I cannot see any arrow at the top right pointing down into a tray, anywhere on my computer screen. I see a ribbon menu at the top with one heading reading "downloads" which when clicked opens up three pdf article download buttons, but none of those is the Tom Gram article. On my computer I cannot find a mechanism for downloading or printing out Tom Gram's article at the link given.

[Ed.Ledoux]

If you click link and then scroll to the article and it will have arrow in upper right hand corner of the essay. Click that arrow



This take you to the Google doc.
At top right is printer icon for downloading or saving the article.



Cheers,
Ed

[greg_parkerAdmin]

What Ed shows in the phone view.  I also think you are talking about what you see on your page menu? What I was referring to is at the top of the essay.

For anyone not too good with the technology, I would recommend using a PC or laptop.

This is what you see when viewing in either of those:

Plus and minus increase and decrease viewing field.  Next button allows you to flip the document (in case it was accidently posted upsde down), On the other side is the download button. Next to that is the print button and then another menu. If you put the curser over each item in that menu, you can read what it does.

[Greg_Doudna]

I see the screenshots and have no idea why but what Ed Ledoux shows, and what Greg P you show, are not visible on mine. I am using a Mac laptop. Could it be the Mac? Or some setting on my computer? No idea, but neither of those are on mine. Now I feel singled out. Its a conspiracy I tell you... :-) (But I have a pdf and printout from Tom Gram so is no longer a problem at my end.)

[greg_parkerAdmin]

I see the screenshots and have no idea why but what Ed Ledoux shows, and what Greg P you show, are not visible on mine. I am using a Mac laptop. Could it be the Mac? Or some setting on my computer? No idea, but neither of those are on mine. Now I feel singled out. Its a conspiracy I tell you... :-) (But I have a pdf and printout from Tom Gram so is no longer a problem at my end.)

That would be it.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Back to the essay.

If Tom is correct that Marina opened and closed Box 2915 and purchased the weapons,

the following questions need to be answered:

What does it say about Marina's ability with English?

What was the purpose of the weapons orders?

Did she have help in ordering the weapons and opening/closing the box?

Was she acting for a domestic or foreign service, a prive group or organization, or was she acting alone or with just one or two others which may include Lee and/or Ruth and/or White Russians?

Was there a third party using the Hidell name?

How did she come up with the name "DF Dritall" as a referee for the pistol purchase?  Hint - a google search shows no one on earth with that surname and even Ancestry.com only finds two records under that name - both likely to be very old documents being misread by software. If you are going to make up a name to actually fool anyone, as well as hide a true identity, you need to make the name a common one - one that anyone can have - not one that no one seems to have. The name was not pulled out of thin air. And it it was not meant to fool everyone, it had to be an "inside" joke or a deliberate message or both.

Years ago when I checked Deinst Fur Drittal ingoogle German to English translator, I got this



I just tried it again and got a different  result



And this, using a different spelling of the first word



This could be complicated by the fact that the person who came up with the name, was not a natural speaker of German. But whatever way you slice it, DF Drittal" was a cryptic message conveying that the purchase had to do with some third party, or that a tthird party was involved in some way.

[JFK_FNG]

That's a great point about Marina's English ability. I thought about it while researching and writing the essay, since she certainly filed her own change of address orders with the Post Office. The first and most important one though, the 5/10/63 forwarding order that closed P.O. Box 2915, could have been filled out with the assistance of Ruth Paine, since it was done just as they were leaving together for New Orleans. Maybe Paine could have taught her how to fill one out? 

I think the evidence that the box was at least closed by Marina on May 10th is pretty much incontrovertible. As for the opening of the box, I would look at who Marina was with on 10/9/62, since I think the evidence shows that the date is accurate even though I think the application in evidence is bogus. Basically I think it's possible that she could have had help. 

As for the rifle order, if we believe Oswald, and take Marina's earliest statements at face value, Oswald didn't own a rifle, but there was one in the Paine garage that disappeared leading up to the assassination. One interesting detail is that as far as I know, Ruth Paine is responsible for the only piece of mail in evidence addressed to 214 Neely St. (letter to Marina), and it was right around the time of the rifle order. Both Lee and Marina had been using P.O. Box 2915 exclusively as a mailing address from October through May, so I think that's something worth looking into more. 

I haven't really looked into the pistol order much, but that's very interesting about the Drittal thing. I also have no clue about the purpose of the weapon orders. All this stuff definitely warrants more research, and I'd be interested to see others' take on it.

[Mick_Purdy]

Can we clear something up just for my addled brain. If we believe the gun/pistol that the Dallas police allegedly found on Oswald at the theater was planted then does this equate to the fact that the only evidence for the alleged Tippit murder weapon in reality is the paper trail of its purchase in the form of the order forms and alleged receipts for the item. 

The rifle in the archives is alleged to be the assassination weapon, but it is most likely not the same rifle as held by the figure in the BYP's. And there is no proof the rifle in the BYP's is the same as ordered at Klein's. 

So, is it possible that all the paperwork related to the weapons orders is bogus? I've long suspected Ruth and or Marina had something to do with the weapons order paperwork and thanks to Tom's work this is slowly taking shape. Many thanks mate. Great thread by the way.

Slightly off topic - it is also fascinating to think that whoever snapped those backyard photographs of the figure in the backyard holding a Mannlicher Carcano rifle and a gun in the figures holster did so with incredible foresight. These photographs were taken either in late March early April or in September sometime according to the Dallas equinox. To think it's possible that a photograph was taken at either of these times of a man holding these two weapons who would later be accused of two murders, one with a Carcano rifle and the other with a pistol is mind boggling. Whoever planted the two weapons had to have knowledge of the BYP's IMO.

[Vinny]

Marina has a lot to answer for. The image many have of her as a helpless innocent widow is quite wrong. I too once viewed her like that. It appears that she might be more involved than thought.

[JFK_FNG]

Can we clear something up just for my addled brain. If we believe the gun/pistol that the Dallas police allegedly found on Oswald at the theater was planted then does this equate to the fact that the only evidence for the alleged Tippit murder weapon in reality is the paper trail of its purchase in the form of the order forms and alleged receipts for the item. 

The rifle in the archives is alleged to be the assassination weapon, but it is most likely not the same rifle as held by the figure in the BYP's. And there is no proof the rifle in the BYP's is the same as ordered at Klein's. 

So, is it possible that all the paperwork related to the weapons orders is bogus? I've long suspected Ruth and or Marina had something to do with the weapons order paperwork and thanks to Tom's work this is slowly taking shape. Many thanks mate. Great thread by the way.

I spent a lot of time looking into the rifle purchase, and have a hard time believing the Klein's microfilm documents are completely bogus, for both time of discovery and the specific details (March '63, Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, etc.) I showed in my essay that the appearance of P.O. Box 2915 caused a bit of a fiasco for the FBI, so the only way I see those documents being planted is if Special Agent Robert Dolan and more importantly William Waldman were witting co-conspirators. Oddly enough, there is a case to be made there, but I don't think I really believe it. I pointed out in that microfilm thread I did the either broken chain of custody or Dolan's crappy reporting in failing to mention the sealed envelope when he returned to Klein's to grab the microfilm from Waldman's safe. The other angle is Waldman's still withheld-in-full connection to Guy Bannister's Chicago Field Office in 1953.

I think it's safe to say Waldman was an informant, and I think there are major inconsistencies with the rifle supplier investigation and paperwork that Waldman may have been persuaded to fall in line with (like if C2766 was supplied by InterArmCo (the CIA) and the Crescent stuff is a sham, which I'm not convinced of but there's enough of a black hole of inconsistencies to be suspicious - or something like that), but I think a rifle was actually ordered by someone using the Hidell alias to Marina's post office box in March '63. Lee very well might have been involved, but I think Marina's story of him actually owning and carrying that rifle to New Orleans etc. is a load of crap. 

I'm agnostic on the pistol order, but if we assume Oswald's interrogation reports and notes were not completely fabricated on that issue then Oswald admitted to owning a pistol, but wouldn't admit where he got it. Whether or not that pistol is what actually ended up in evidence is another story. An interesting point that I included in the essay, is that Rankin showed Marina the pistol order form, said it was used to order the rifle, and allowed Marina to disavow any knowledge of it. Marina was never shown a single document relating to the rifle purchase though, so I kind of zeroed in on that and never really dug into the pistol. 

I wonder if the "exhaustive inquiries" by the Postal Inspection Service that failed to turn up anyone remembering handing a package to Oswald might have had better luck if they asked about an attractive young Russian woman - not exactly the regular clientele at the Dallas Post Office in 1963. 

Marina was definitely not the helpless wife she portrayed herself as, and probably knows a lot more than she's ever admitted. Maybe to the right person she might be open to finally admitting some of what she knows that could show how Oswald was framed. Just admitting that she closed P.O. Box 2915 on May 10th '63, which I think is provable, would be a great start, and would not look good for the government. To her credit she identified Oswald as Prayer Man, but I'd bet she could make a big difference in actually getting her late husband exonerated if she wanted to.

[lanceman]

If Marina was allowed to marry Oswald and subsequently leave the USSR, it’s hard to believe she was not some kind on intelligence asset. If that is the case, not having good knowledge of spoken and written English would have been a great handicap.

[JFK_FNG]

I just wanted to address a potential criticism of the idea that P.O. Box 2915 was rented in Marina's name. I was going to include this in the essay but decided against it. Basically, someone could say that the FBI obtained proof of box rental payments showing Oswald indeed had the box in his name:



The first problem with this is that these rental receipts are not in evidence. The second and bigger problem in my opinion is how they were supposedly discovered. On 4/9/64, the Assistant Postmaster of the main Dallas Post Office gave the following information to the FBI:




A portion of this FBI report was included as a part of CE 1160. CE 1160 is a summary of payments made on previous residences of Oswald in Dallas and Fort Worth:



What's interesting about this is that 4/3/64 is literally the day after Harry Holmes testified that he didn't know how he learned about box 2915, with his choice of words to David Belin being "I don't know if I can tell" and "I couldn't tell you", and also failing to authenticate the box application with his initials on it under oath.

I discussed in the essay the episode with Gonzalo Ancira who appeared three weeks later and told a bullshit story about informing the DPD about the box a couple hours after the assassination, which there is no record of, mountains of contradictory evidence, no follow-up investigation - and Ancira's story wasn't even used by the Warren Commission. I think the "appearance" of the box rental receipts are more fiction used to bolster the questionable provenance of the application; the biggest clue being that the FBI report states that the box was relinquished on 5/14/63, which in my opinion is provably false based on the overwhelming evidence that the box was actually closed on May 10th by Marina. 

There is also an ever bigger problem with the alleged rental receipts not appearing until April '64. At 12:52 p.m. CST on 11/23/63, the New York Field Office sent a classified teletype to Headquarters, Chicago and Dallas about Oswald's letter to the FPCC from April '63. The end of the teletype makes a very specific request:




At the time this teletype was sent, the FBI was still reporting that P.O. Box 2915 was rented in the name of "Mrs. Lee H. Oswald"/Oswald's mother and Hoover told the White House sometime after 4:00 p.m. CST that there was "no doubt at all" that the box was "maintained by his mother". The earliest report saying that the box was in Oswald's name doesn't show up until 9:46 p.m. - in the Dallas teletype telling agents to find the money order based on Holmes' discovery of the missing stub - and by 9:46 p.m. the money order had already been found. 

Is it reasonable to think that the FBI wouldn't follow up on a classified teletype from Nov. 23rd and fail to obtain the payment information on the box until after Holmes' 4/2/64 testimony?

[JFK_FNG]

This will be a bit long but was too good not to share. Harry Holmes in No More Silence makes some interesting statements that tie in quite well to my essay. 

(1) "Oswald had a box originally in, I think, Fort Worth, then they went to New Orleans where he opened another. When he left there, he went to the Mexican Consulate in Mexico City, but they wouldn’t grant him a visa, so he ended up coming back to Dallas. During that time, the easiest way to keep up with the mail, as in Oswald’s case, was to have your mail with a forwarding notice from one box to another. She had to go from Fort Worth to New Orleans to the Dallas main office, then down to the Terminal Annex. I guess that there were four different post office boxes that he had."

Holmes mentions Oswald's box at the main Dallas Post Office multiple times in his chapter, but here, when he first brings it up, he says the box was originally in Fort Worth then jumps straight to New Orleans. Seconds later he says "SHE had to go from..." when talking about change of address orders. Freudian slip? This is what Sneed transcribed and I have no reason to think it's not what Holmes actually said. 

(2) "Shortly after the assassination the FBI assigned a man to sit in my office to, I assume, second guess me. You just don’t know what the FBI is up to. I never was an admirer of the FBI, not that there was any jealousy between us, but I always felt like they didn’t rank. For example, in the case of postal inspector, when I would pick up a suspect I could take him to a state or federal court, or I could turn him loose; I might even just sit on my bottom. But the FBI couldn’t do anything but report it to headquarters and they would tell them what to do. Individually they didn’t know themselves what they’re up to; they had to ask somebody higher up. They had no independent opinion or judgment about anything. We did and would carry it to the bitter end. But in this case, I knew the guy assigned to my office, had worked with him around Dallas for a long time, and were good friends, so I didn’t try to hold anything back from him."

This is just priceless from FBI informant Holmes. What's important here though is that the guy assigned to his office was Special Agent Alfred Ellington, who I surmised might have been Holmes' FBI handler. I think this all but confirms it. Part III of my essay discusses evidence of collusion between Holmes and Ellington in manipulating evidence against Oswald - and with the two being "good friends" I can't see any way around Holmes' testimony regarding the box applications and "$21.95" money order being flat out perjury - especially considering what Holmes says about his supposed phenomenal memory in No More Silence.

(3) "I had previously furnished headquarters, because everybody wanted them, copies of box rental applications that he had to fill out in his own handwriting. Those I had sent up on Friday night after I had gotten that information, so that they had enough there on file. I figured that that was one of the very few pieces of actual evidence, not just circumstantial, that they would have been ready to go on the stand with and swear, and their testimony was just as authentic and viable as fingerprints or handwriting in federal court. Both agencies were ready to testify that that was his handwriting, that he ordered that gun in his own handwriting, and that it came to his post office box in Dallas. That’s good evidence!"

Here's another good one. Holmes admits knowing about box 2915 on Friday night, which he "forgot" under oath to the Warren Commission. Apparently though he sent copies of the application to headquarters - I'm not sure if I believe that - but if so it makes CE 1799 and the drafts even worse, since the report with Holmes' uncorrected "J.H. Oswald" statement was reviewed by the Postal Inspection Service in Washington before it was sent to the Commission.  Recall that the exact same sentence that "J.H. Oswald" appears in was heavily revised at least three times. Holmes also, as in his testimony, mentions nothing about giving the original box application to the FBI, his buddy Al Ellington.  

(4) "Actually there was no evidence that Oswald was the one that picked up the package which contained the rifle. But we did have his authenticated handwriting that he ordered the rifle from Klein’s Sporting Goods in Chicago, and it did come to this post office in Dallas. Obviously, a rifle wouldn’t fit in the box, so they would have to leave notice and nobody knows whether he took that notice over to the window and picked it up or whether his wife did because he admitted in the interrogation that the only person that ever got anything out of that box was possibly his wife, and he wasn’t sure that she had. He just said possibly, but nobody else. So, in my mind, it’s quite evident that he took the slip over and picked the rifle up at the window that was so designated for delivery of parcels.

      I never interrogated his wife, but she knew all about the rifle. But, at no time, did she say anything about how he acquired the rifle or from where. She wasn’t trying to hide anything. She was very open abut all of her testimony and she would have said, “I know he got it because I picked it up at the post office.” But she didn’t say that.”

This is my favorite. This is basically the last thing Holmes told Sneed before concluding - must have stuck in his mind. No shit Marina didn't say anything about how Oswald acquired the rifle, she was never asked about it, by anyone, or at least nothing that made it into the record. She was never even asked about the damn post office box! Also, Holmes here, in contrast to his 12/17/63 report, makes it sound like Oswald might have suspected that Marina ordered the rifle in his interrogation. Marina also said, allegedly, a single time and of her own volition, recorded in an FBI report from Feb. '64, that Oswald had received the rifle through the mail. How'd she know that if she was so clueless, and why under oath to the HSCA did she say she never asked him and didn't know how Oswald got the rifle?

(5) "Finally he admitted, “Well, my wife. She didn’t have a key, but occasionally I’d give her the key to check my box for me. That’s before I had it moved to the Terminal Annex. She’s the only one that ever got one out of there.” Of course, she didn’t get the rifle, he did. He admitted that nobody else could have gotten mail out of there because there was only one key issued. The same was true at the annex. There was only one key issued, and he had it in his pocket when he was arrested. So there was no evidence that he did receive that rifle. Now I don’t think that he shot it before that, but he kept it wrapped in a blanket over at Ruth Paine’s garage and everybody knew it. He would never admit to having owned the rifle even though I knew that he was lying, at least circumstantially. He just disabused his mind of any connection with it." 

This ties into (4) and is also interesting. It is a matter of record that two keys were issued for P.O. Box 2915, and Holmes himself in his 12/17/63 report says, accurately or not, that Oswald said he might have handed "one of the keys" to Marina on occasion to pick up his mail. Sounds to me like Holmes might have still been in a bit of cover-up mode thirty years later. 

I'll work on putting together a blog or website for this kind of thing so I don't keep spamming the forum with three page comments.

[Jake_Sykes]

Oh that's ok. Just keep spamming this forum.

This comment regarding the FBI jumped out: " Individually they didn’t know themselves what they’re up to; they had to ask somebody higher up. They had no independent opinion or judgment about anything." ...and that is how coverups are manufactured.

[greg_parkerAdmin]

Oh that's ok. Just keep spamming this forum.

This comment regarding the FBI jumped out: " Individually they didn’t know themselves what they’re up to; they had to ask somebody higher up. They had no independent opinion or judgment about anything." ...and that is how coverups are manufactured.

Exactly - on both counts, Jake.

It's not spamming. That is what the forum is for. On the other hand, the final product should be put into essay form and be made available on the web. I'm happy to give them a home at my other site, or for Tom to build his own site. Regardless, the work needs to be seen.

And yeah - never occurred to me before... but the way the FBI operated was conducive to coverups.

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