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Roger Odisio
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What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)? Empty What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

Tue 13 Dec 2022, 6:55 am
I posted this on EV and thought I would put it here as well for possible comment.  And because I was pissed at the ridicule of Lifton for his "wild" ideas while at the same time praising him as an original thinker!  As if they don't understand what makes an original thinker original.


David Lifton was trying to answer this question:  what was the perps original plan to murder Kennedy and pin it on Oswald?  He knew the closer he got to the answer, the clearer would become the picture of who did it (the ultimate question).  Who had the power and ability to develop a plan of this magnitude and complexity, execute it, and cover it up?  We won't know how close he came to answering his question until his research becomes more available, whether in the form of Final Charade or some other way. 
 
He organized his search around an indisputable fact:  whoever did it had to be able to control the "best evidence", JFK's body and its wounds, to fit the story they were concocting that Oswald did it from the 6th floor window.
 
For me at least, we now know enough to conclude from Lipton and others, who it *wasn't*:  the mob, some rogue CIA, Castro, other Cubans, the Soviet Union.  The focus has to be on what Salandria termed the "upper echelons of the government".  Or what Ray McGovern (former CIA) now calls the MICIMATT (Military-Industrial-Congressional-Intelligence-Media-Academia-Think-Tank complex) that the perps have grown into once they completed their destruction of the American Left, starting with JFK in the 1960s and moving on to ruling the world.. 
 
Pieced together from Lipton's interview snippets, we know at least this much.  The original plan had to include time and place to surgically change the original wounds to fit their story, before an autopsy was performed.  From this, Lipton surmised the following part of the plan:
 
(1) Rush the body to Parkland where things had been set up, despite the fact there was a closer hospital.
 
(2) Send the body to the 6th floor operating room with the story they were trying to save JFK's life, and delay the announcement of the death (even tho JFK died instantly from his wounds as testified by some at the scene) to give them the time to prepare the body for an autopsy that would show what they wanted it to. This is verified by the story the next day in Dallas Morning News which read:  "The President died in a sixth-floor surgery room at Parkland Hospital about 1 p.m., though doctors said there was no chance for him to live when he reached the hospital"  They were reporting what the planners originally told them and no one at the time, or even until now, thought to rewrite it.  Lipton was especially proud of his discovery of the newspaper story.
 
(3) The pre-autopsy work was necessary because, for example, Kennedy was dead on the spot and his brain was completely blown away.  This was verified by the guy who first opened the shipping box (not the casket we all saw being unloaded at the airport in Washington) and saw the body.  At one point he said to Lifton that it was clear that no tracheotomy was performed at Parkland because why would you do that to a person already dead?  Possible answer:  except perhaps as part of a cover story since it turned out the Zapruder film showed Kennedy grabbing his throat early on in the shooting.  And part of the reason for the delay in announcing the death was that they were still trying to save his life.
 
(4) The local coroner had jurisdiction over the autopsy (there was no federal law against murder at the time) so he verifies that JFK was shot from behind and off they go to the the WC to sell it to the public.
 
Right away things didn't go as planned.  The planners wanted to get the body away from Jackie, O'Donnell, and other Kennedy entourage to do their dirty work, but they couldn't.  Whether Jackie knew he was already dead or just seriously wounded isn't clear, but she stayed close by the body.  So they muscled the body away from Parkland to Bethesda where they could run a fake autopsy they could control.
 
Their ability to change the plan on the fly is another indication of the power of the perps.
 
Then comes Lipton's harrowing account of the two containers loaded on the flight back to Washington.  The body in a shipping box and the empty casket close to Jackie.  So far Lipton's story is plausible and the fake autopsy was easily set up by the perps later to reveal nothing about what happened.  So maybe Lifton's tale about the two container flight to Washington isn't really necessary.  But  that leaves some loose ends.  What about the brain, for example.  How did the fake brain now at NARA get inserted?  If you don't like this part of Lifton's story it's time to get to work on a better version.   
 
Some who ridicule parts of Lifton's discussion of the plan still credit him as an original thinker.  What do you think an original thinker does?  He goes where no one else has and tries to explain to others what they don't know or haven't thought about.  He's out on a limb.  Initially at least, his story is likely to lack clear corroboration.  It's new after all.  It's easy to ridicule.  But that's no excuse for doing so without first considering the context of his remarks and what he was trying to accomplish.
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What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)? Empty Re: What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

Wed 14 Dec 2022, 2:35 pm
Roger Odisio wrote:I posted this on EV and thought I would put it here as well for possible comment.  And because I was pissed at the ridicule of Lifton for his "wild" ideas while at the same time praising him as an original thinker!  As if they don't understand what makes an original thinker original.

Roger, I know you haven't taken anything personally. Hope that continues to be the case because your tenacity regarding NARA is exactly what we need.

More examples of original thinkers

Judyth Vary Baker
Stephen King


David Lifton was trying to answer this question:  what was the perps original plan to murder Kennedy and pin it on Oswald?  He knew the closer he got to the answer, the clearer would become the picture of who did it (the ultimate question).  Who had the power and ability to develop a plan of this magnitude and complexity, execute it, and cover it up?  We won't know how close he came to answering his question until his research becomes more available, whether in the form of Final Charade or some other way. 
Absolutely.


He organized his search around an indisputable fact:  whoever did it had to be able to control the "best evidence", JFK's body and its wounds, to fit the story they were concocting that Oswald did it from the 6th floor window.
Control of the body is not indisputable need of any conspiracy. In any case, he organzied his search around a comment made in an FBI report. It became the "hook" in search of a coda (or "charade" maybe).

Some control of the evidence, or control of the people who control the evidence is really all that is needed. Does not need to include the body or "surgery". 


For me at least, we now know enough to conclude from Lipton and others, who it *wasn't*:  the mob, some rogue CIA, Castro, other Cubans, the Soviet Union.  The focus has to be on what Salandria termed the "upper echelons of the government".  Or what Ray McGovern (former CIA) now calls the MICIMATT (Military-Industrial-Congressional-Intelligence-Media-Academia-Think-Tank complex) that the perps have grown into once they completed their destruction of the American Left, starting with JFK in the 1960s and moving on to ruling the world.. 

None of those are exactly high on the list of probablities. But nor should any but the mob be entirely rules out. 

I think McGovern is getting close, but I also worry about how such groupings are named and pointed to like they meet once a month to plan the next Big Conspiracy. The end result of that type of thinking exploded here earlier in the week. Six dead - 2 cops - 3 conspiracy whack jobs- and one too-curious neighbor.

I also absolutely loathe those who only want to look at the big picture and keep the brush strokes as broad as possinble. 

The Big Screen is made up of christ knows how many pixels. I want to examine each of them and see how or if they fit together. Those Big Picturte guys to me, are just blowing smoke to cover up the fact that they couldn't tell the diffderence between their arse and their elbow.  So they keep it big, broad and blurred.


Pieced together from Lipton's interview snippets, we know at least this much.  The original plan had to include time and place to surgically change the original wounds to fit their story, before an autopsy was performed.  From this, Lipton surmised the following part of the plan:
If we believed evrything told to authors by "witnesses", Judyth Baker went on double-dates with Oswald in between handling weaponized cancer, there were Oswald doppelgangers running around everywhere, Oswald took a long package to work - not once but twice (per Frazier and Yates), and James Files was one of a team of shooters.

 Meanwhile Lifton has posited the abusrd (shooters in paper mache trees) and the anachronous (that every single film was altered virtually straight away)


Initially at least, his story is likely to lack clear corroboration.  It's new after all.  It's easy to ridicule.  But that's no excuse for doing so without first considering the context of his remarks and what he was trying to accomplish.
Speculation followed by the search for corroboration is one thing.

Speculation that is on its face, laughable or impossible (as are the previous examples) is another thing entirely.

He had been working on this book since at least from the time I came along. That is more than 20 years. If you can't find corroboration by then, you need to take your speculation off the table.

The only thing bigger than his claims was his ego. 

He is not going to hell. He is not going to heaven. He's not going anywhere  for his good deeds or his sins. May his remains rest in peace.

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Roger Odisio
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What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)? Empty Re: What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

Thu 15 Dec 2022, 6:34 am
Roger Odisio wrote: wrote:I posted this on EV and thought I would put it here as well for possible comment.  And because I was pissed at the ridicule of Lifton for his "wild" ideas while at the same time praising him as an original thinker!  As if they don't understand what makes an original thinker original.

Roger, I know you haven't taken anything personally. Hope that continues to be the case because your tenacity regarding NARA is exactly what we need.

More examples of original thinkers

Judyth Vary Baker
Stephen King
 
RO:  You're confusing liars and fantasists with original thinkers about important topics. Strange, because actually relevant examples of original thinkers include:
 
Einstein
Marx
Greg Parker 

David Lifton was trying to answer this question:  what was the perps original plan to murder Kennedy and pin it on Oswald?  He knew the closer he got to the answer, the clearer would become the picture of who did it (the ultimate question).  Who had the power and ability to develop a plan of this magnitude and complexity, execute it, and cover it up?  We won't know how close he came to answering his question until his research becomes more available, whether in the form of Final Charade or some other way. 
[size]
Absolutely.

[/size]
He organized his search around an indisputable fact:  whoever did it had to be able to control the "best evidence", JFK's body and its wounds, to fit the story they were concocting that Oswald did it from the 6th floor window.
[size]
Control of the body is not indisputable need of any conspiracy. In any case, he organzied his search around a comment made in an FBI report. It became the "hook" in search of a coda (or "charade" maybe).

Some control of the evidence, or control of the people who control the evidence is really all that is needed. Does not need to include the body or "surgery". 

RO:  In this case, control of the information about the body's wounds to corroborate Oswald-as-guilty-from-behind was indispensable for the perps.   More indispensable, in fact, than what the Darnell film shows.  If a real autopsy showed at least some of the shots came from the front, the Warren Rep is dead.  More so than if Darnell shows that figure is Oswald because that can and will be disputed.  And because Darnell can be more easily ignored or dismissed by the MSM gatekeepers than an official autopsy report.  That Lifton recognized this and sought to explain the perps' plan in these terms is probably his best contribution.
[/size]
For me at least, we now know enough to conclude from Lipton and others, who it *wasn't*:  the mob, some rogue CIA, Castro, other Cubans, the Soviet Union.  The focus has to be on what Salandria termed the "upper echelons of the government".  Or what Ray McGovern (former CIA) now calls the MICIMATT (Military-Industrial-Congressional-Intelligence-Media-Academia-Think-Tank complex) that the perps have grown into once they completed their destruction of the American Left, starting with JFK in the 1960s and moving on to ruling the world.. 
[size]

None of those are exactly high on the list of probablities. But nor should any but the mob be entirely rules out. [/size]
 
RO:   Did I leave out more likely candidates?  Oswald of course, but I think it unnecessary to include him.   None of the candidates listed, not just the mob, had the ability to execute plan as fully as was required.  No murder would have happened without a plan to escape detection and produce a patsy, that could be executed by the perps.

I think McGovern is getting close, but I also worry about how such groupings are named and pointed to like they meet once a month to plan the next Big Conspiracy. The end result of that type of thinking exploded here earlier in the week. Six dead - 2 cops - 3 conspiracy whack jobs- and one too-curious neighbor.

 
RO:  McGovern's group has become so all pervasive powerful they don't have to meet before doing something.

I also absolutely loathe those who only want to look at the big picture and keep the brush strokes as broad as possinble. 

The Big Screen is made up of christ knows how many pixels. I want to examine each of them and see how or if they fit together. Those Big Picturte guys to me, are just blowing smoke to cover up the fact that they couldn't tell the diffderence between their arse and their elbow.  So they keep it big, broad and blurred.


RO:  Maybe I see things a bit differently.  I'm with Salandria in his famous 1998 speech "False Mystery" in which he lamented how researchers have been diverted to chase countless minutiae when, he said, we know it was a conspiracy and who did it (within the highest echelons of government).  The two approaches are not mutually exclusive.  I think you are working from some overall perceptions that guide you to the pixels you want to examine.  I get impatient with those folks constantly chasing seemingly random rabbit holes without any grounding.  They look at anything they find to be an interesting puzzle regardless of whether it leads anywhere.
Pieced together from Lipton's interview snippets, we know at least this much.  The original plan had to include time and place to surgically change the original wounds to fit their story, before an autopsy was performed.  From this, Lipton surmised the following part of the plan:
[size]
If we believed evrything told to authors by "witnesses", Judyth Baker went on double-dates with Oswald in between handling weaponized cancer, there were Oswald doppelgangers running around everywhere, Oswald took a long package to work - not once but twice (per Frazier and Yates), and James Files was one of a team of shooters.

 Meanwhile Lifton has posited the abusrd (shooters in paper mache trees) and the anachronous (that every single film was altered virtually straight away)[/size]
 
RO:  I claim the right to decide what is valuable about what an author offers and concentrate on that.  While discarding his missteps, considering them only if they impinge on the valuable things.  None of the things you cite here by Lifton and others diminishes anything important Lifton had to say.
Initially at least, his story is likely to lack clear corroboration.  It's new after all.  It's easy to ridicule.  But that's no excuse for doing so without first considering the context of his remarks and what he was trying to accomplish.
[size]
Speculation followed by the search for corroboration is one thing.

Speculation that is on its face, laughable or impossible (as are the previous examples) is another thing entirely.[/size]
 
He had been working on this book since at least from the time I came along. That is more than 20 years. If you can't find corroboration by then, you need to take your speculation off the table.
 
RO:  At this point we don't know what corroboration, or further development of his central points, he achieved before his death.  I think you need to wait a bit before making these arguments.  Steven Kossor at EF told me has been working with Lifton for about a decade.  They had corrected some things from Lifton's earlier work and developed an outline to Final Charade that he thinks is pretty polished.  It will of course be hard to turn Lifton's massive files into a coherent book, and I'm not sure who is going to do it.

The only thing bigger than his claims was his ego. 

 
RO:  His big ego kept him going for 55+ years. 

He is not going to hell. He is not going to heaven. He's not going anywhere  for his good deeds or his sins. May his remains rest in peace.

 
RO:  I'm not so much interested in his place in history as what can be made of what he has done.


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Steven Uanna
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What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)? Empty Re: What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

Fri 23 Dec 2022, 2:25 pm
Lifton has done a great job. He has provided us with a road map. He proved that a lot of deception was going on. But he came to a dead end because of a lot of conflicting evidence that he could not reconcile. Rather than read all 755 pages of his 1980 paperback, read Chapters 25 to 27, this is what went on inside the hospital late that afternoon and into the next morning. Then read Chapter 16, this is about the casket team that flew on a helicopter from Andrews Air Force Base and were at Bethesda when the motorcade with JFK’s casket and Jackie and RFK arrived.
Lifton and Manchester agree that it was very dark out in front of Bethesda. And there was a very large crowd. Manchester said there was some confusion about the ambulance carrying JFK’s body. Lifton would explore this in much more detail. 
Lifton discovered that some in the casket team would be told there would be a decoy ambulance. The hospital crew would learn this too before the night was over. But with a little difference. 
Lifton had described how the casket team had chased the ambulance in Chapter 16. In 25 you meet Navy Corpsman Dennis David. At 6:17 PM he saw a black Cadillac hearse back into the morgue loading dock behind the hospital. 6 or 7 big men in suits got out, he thought they were Secret Service, and between them and some Navy Corpsmen that Davis was supervising they carried a grey shipping casket inside. Davis would be on the balcony in the entrance foyer about 6:55 PM when he saw Jackie and RFK come in the door. Davis was told the Navy ambulance out front, a grey 1963 Pontiac Bonneville was a decoy. X Ray technician James Jenkins was carrying JFK’s X Rays and accompanied by a Secret Service Agent would see Jackie and RFK coming in too.
Acces to the morgue was tightly controlled. 2 FBI agents were restricted at first and did the best they could keep to track of things.
The casket team had been told that there was a decoy ambulance too. In their case it was another grey Bonneville ambulance a little ways back in the
motorcade. If you read their account in Chapter 16 keeping in mind the thick crowd... they were told “there it goes” and they took off after the ambulance Jackie came in. Up and down and around the grounds, sometimes reaching speeds of 50 mph in the back of a pickup being driven by what they thought was a Navy security man. They lost the ambulance.
This took about 15 minutes. And another 10 or 15 to get back to the hospital. Finally, after a lot of confusion they spotted the ambulance at the loading dock. They carried the bronze casket with the broken rear handle in. Apparently it was put in the morgue ante room.
During the night a new casket would be bought at Gawlers Funeral home nearby. The bronze JFK casket, after some lobbying by former Dallas Mayor Earl Cabell, would be loaded with 250 lbs of sand and dropped in the ocean.
Everyone believed that all the strange goings on involved JFK’s body. And poor Lifton tried to figure out when the body could have been tampered with. In the plane at Love Field? During the casket shuffled between the Black Cadillac and the Navy’s grey Bonneville(s) ...in the hospital then back out. 
Witnesses had conflicting stories about wounds. 
It is my opinion that JFK’s body never entered Bethesda. Think of it like that and then read Chapters 25 - 27 and Chapter 16. Don’t try and reconcile the evidence. If it was J. D. Tippit in the black Cadillac it doesn’t much matter. Lifton, who is a genius in my opinion, could not figure it out.
The bystanders played an important role. Who were they? How did that many people get on to the grounds. The size of the crowd was estimated at over 300 people. And they were grouping around the ambulance in the dark. How did they know about Bethesda. That was an issue in the radio transmission from Air Force One on the way back. Bethesda or Walter Reed was the question.
Christopher Simpson in his book BLOWBACK about Nazis and their collaborators brought into the US says these Nazis and quislings could be counted on to turn out in the hundreds for political rallies and were decisive voting blocks. 
Jackie and others said it was not Jack in the casket when they viewed it at the White House. There was nothing wrong with JFK’s face. His skull was badly damaged on the right side and rear. Tippit face was covered at his funeral. 
Everyone at Bethesda was sworn to secrecy. 
Was the ambulance chase part of a Freemason ritual involving some character known as Hiram Abiff. Hiram was killed and his body stolen. He was finally found after a frantic search and came forth as a new person, a 3rd Degree Master Mason. 
LBJ said he held Air Force One in Dallas because RFK said to take the oath of office there. RFK would deny this. Manchester’s book gives a good description of this and the arguments on the plane about staying in Dallas. LBJ said get Sarah Hughes. Chief Jessie Curry was at the tarmac gate waiting for her. Judge Sarah T. Hughes, the T stands for Tilghman. The Tilghman family go back to the year 1660 in America. Sarah Hughes is a direct descendant of Tench Tilghman who was George Washington’s aide decamp. When the British surrendered at Yorktown, Virginia in 1781 Washington chose Tilghman to carry the surrender documents to the Continental Congress in Philadelphia. There is a well known painting of Washington, Lafayette and Tilghman by Peale. Look carefully, Lafayette is pointing at Tilghman. 
LBJ was a Mason but apparently only did the first degree, Entered Apprentice. Or did he do more? 
The eternal flame sits right down the hill from Arlington House, a house built around 1817 by Washington’s foster son Custis as a memorial to Washington. Robert E. Lee would marry his daughter. It’s the Custis Lee Mansion and now a memorial to Robert E. Lee. So if J. D. (Jefferson Davis) Tippit is under the eternal flame....
To really understand why the Freemasons would go through this Ovason’s book is a requirement. Pretty far out stuff. Astronomy, astrology and star worship. A most ancient cult. It started at the Tower of Babel. 
Steve
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Steven Uanna
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What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)? Empty Re: What was David Lifton's point (a partial response to Pat Speer's musing)?

Sun 25 Dec 2022, 7:30 am
If there is a muse of literature it may have visited William Manchester while he researched and wrote THE DEATH OF A PRESIDENT. Writing it put him in the hospital with exhaustion as he was finishing it. To get all the interviews and minute details and then wind them into a page turner, and he gives an edginess to it that I think many appreciate if they are (conspiracy buffs). Although the book came out in 1967 it is profound record of a very different time than we live in today, and of the cast of characters on the stage then. In 1964 the Kennedy 50 cent piece came out. It was real silver. Silver was replaced with copper in our coins the next year. Manchester’s book is silver. 
Chapter 7  LACE. This chapter starts as the elevated lift is pulled up to Air Force One at Andrews AFB to remove JFK’s casket. 
You will see people mentioned in David Lifton’s BEST EVIDENCE. Manchester describes the ride through Washington, mentioning locations and the street scenes. 
The bystanders along the road, miles of coax cables were being pulled into manholes to film the funeral. The three TV networks had joined together for a non stop production since shortly after noon on Friday thatcwould go on until after JFK’s burial on Monday, with no commercials. 
LBJ was informed that a proclamation had been sent to all 50 state governors that all is well. In all of this there was very little warning to the National Military Establishment about being prepared for war other than to say be on the lookout and prepared when we massively retaliate if anyone tries anything, otherwise business as usual. 
For those in the motorcade and other people brought to Bethesda it was a crazy night. Fire station sirens went off all over Washington until the early hours of the morning. Everyone knew at that time the sirens were part of an early warning system. “Only a test” But the sirens went on sporadically into the early morning hours, very scary. It was a signal for danger or a war. Up on the 17th floor of the Bethesda Tower Jackie told RFK in detail what had happened. Then she told Tony Bradlee, Mary Pinchot Meyer’s sister. 
Lt. Bird and his men had traveled by helicopter from Andrews and were in a truck by the Bethesda’s cornerstone waiting when they saw the motorcade pull in. 
...multitudes surrounded the grounds, the sheer numbers were overwhelming, and unprecedented.”
“The lawn was covered with a shapeless blur of onlookers.”
“They had observed Mrs. Kennedy’s arrived but the darkness, the great blocks of silent people, and the many moving vehicles distracted them. It had confused two naval physicians, too. When an ambulance drew away from the curb they called, “That’s it-we’ll guide you to the morgue.” At the morgue, Whele, Bird and the six enlisted men debarked and inspected each other’s uniforms while awaiting some movement from the ambulance. It was still as still, the Lieutenant crept up and peered inside. It was empty. Even the driver had gone. Panicky, they fled back and saw, among the shining cats eyes, the uneasy face of Godfrey McHugh. Whele and Bird colored. The Military District of Washington was meticulous about ceremony; for a casket team to leave a Commander in Chief’s casket was an astounding lapse, and after casting about bitterly-and vainly-for the two doctors, they reformed the tiny escort.” Then all of a sudden they are at the morgue loading dock carrying the casket in. 
That’s how Manchester describes it. And it is pretty bad. 
Lifton’s description is worse. 
I think it happened like this: 
I think the black Cadillac hearse backs into the morgue dock with J. D. Tippit’s body at approx 6:15 PM. It was brought to Washington on LBJ’s Air Force Two from Dallas. Given extra time by waiting for Judge Sarah Tilghman Hughes. Kill two birds with one stone. Get J. D. Tippit into Bethesda and get Sara Tilghman Hughes to anoint LBJ. Motorcade arrives out front of Bethesda led by Navy grey Bonneville carrying JFK’s casket, Jackie and RFK at 6:55 PM. 
It seems to me the casket team chased the empty grey Bonneville ambulance that was in the rear which was moved up along with the other cars, the Government Mercurys, that passed the JFK Bonneville parked at the doors of the tower. They lost it on the grounds behind the hospital in the hilly and curvy roads - I know I’ve driven them while I worked there in 2010 - 2011 as a medical equipment technician for a private contractor during the renovation in which Walter Reed Army Hospital come over and combined with Bethesda Naval. 
It was approx 30 minutes before the casket team came back out front. JFK’s ambulance had been taken somewhere and his body removed. The casket team comes back out to the front and while they are there JFK’s ambulance, with an empty Dallas casket backs into the morgue dock. The casket team goes  back around back and finds it there and takes it into the morgue ante room. 
While I was there I walked through the entrance foyer and saw the balcony where Dennis David looked down and saw Jackie and RFK walk in, I went into the weed infested inner courtyard, it must have been nice at one time, into the basements even into half basements with dirt going out to the outer walls. I made a point of probing as much of the basement as possible. It is much more difficult to get into Bethesda or any Government facility since 911 without a swipe ID. Tall chain link fences encircle whole bases and lots of doors are card key. Most US Government facilities are like that now. Authorized Personnel Only. 
In 1963 it was much more open. But I drove down to the Officers Club in the way back of the woods behind Bethesda. During my time there I entered Bethesda at the Wisconsin Avenue and Jones Bridge Road gates. Bethesda’s campus is a big wooded area with winding and hilly roads and ditching the casket team and moving JFK’s ambulance from out front and removing his body would be easy especially if the grounds were under physical surveillance and maybe even CCTV to keep track of where the casket team was. And the casket team’s pickup truck was being driven by a “Navy security man.” There was and still is a Catholic Girls school - Stone Ridge Community Day School of the Sacred Heart abutting Bethesda on the left front and JFK’s ambulance could have just slipped over there and then back to the morgue dock. When I was there the first time in 2010 a road on the left side of the entrance circle went over there and ran behind an old wooden barn type structure that was part of the school. Only a few hundred yards, no more than 1/4 mile from Bethesda’s entrance semi circle. In 2011 the road was blocked. There was also a road that forked off that road to the right that went down a slope to Bethesda maintenance buildings. These were 200 yards from the main building. It was very dark outside, this was mentioned numerous times in Manchester’s and Lifton’s books. Were the street lights and outside building lights turned off? 
Bethesda was state of the art in 1942 and more additions were made. An elaborate overhead rail system in the basement that took equipment and supplies around to dumb waiters to transfer to upper floors. I’ve been in the Pentagon too. Believe me they don’t build buildings like those anymore. 
I’m pretty good at dating architecture. And I was in the core of the 1942 building in the basement. I think it had additions added around it in the 1970’s. I looked for the morgue. I think I looked through the window pictured in Lifton’s book about the baby born dead. I’m not sure they were still using the morgue. I could not get in. But I got into a room that was near that. Near the door I looked through. From Lifton’s drawing the morgue ante room is small, unless the morgue is larger than it looks on the drawing. I always pictured refrigerated lockers like you see on TV cop shows. A little door and it’s opened and there are feet with a tag on the toe. 
What I saw fit Manchester's description of “reefers” because they were like meat lockers. I can’t remember how many, at least 5, with 4 foot wide and 7 foot high doors. The area in front of them was wide enough to pull a gurney straight out. I would date them easily pre 1960. The kind of storage you would expect the main Navy hospital would have if it had to to deal with war dead. This would be a better place for the approx eight men who were supposed to be in the ante room controlling events. Better than the Lifton drawing which would be very cramped with a casket in there. If someone wanted to hide something like the shipping casket and then the Dallas casket for safe keeping there was plenty of room. If JFK was still in his casket when he came in he could be put there. But why bother. You’d have to come back later and get it. You don’t want to go back. Unless you have to deal with someone like Lt. Commander William Pitzer who might have filmed what went on. If he read the Warren Report he might have said: Hey, I saw a shipping casket, but JFK casket came the in motorcade. A Big casket. Hey, let’s look at that video again. What if there was a CCTV on the morgue dock. I understand Pitzer’s shop could transmit live CCTV of the Bethesda morgue to Walter Reed. Technology was more advanced then than most people now realize. They think the clackety, jerky Zapruder film is where it was at. 
Pitzer was ready to retire and take a job with NBC. Possibly make a film production. $40,000 per year. Instead he committed suicide in his office at Bethesda. 
All the X Rays, drawings, contradictory statements about wounds, burned notes... a smoke screen...
Navy Medecine had it’s headquarters at 
Observatory/Navy Hill in the late 19th and early 20th century. It really came into the 20th century at Bethesda in 1942. Art Deco, 17 floors. I think the CIA, and we might as well say the “old hands” of the OSS kept the same cozy relationship up at Bethesda that they already had at Navy Hill. And the NIH was across Wisconsin Ave from Bethesda. 
The body switch was a magic trick. Well done. And since the CIA had already hijacked National Security years ago during the early years of Eisenhower’s Cold War they could make everyone swear to secrecy. No problem. They were the “Authorized Personnel” that controlled the doors. Until the Conspiracy buffs came  along. But they were ready for them. There are so many facets to this and so many very strange characters who have connections to other characters and stories that lead to other stories and it leads around here and there. And because the documents are unavailability to the average Joe.... 
He filed FOIA requests and wonders what is blacked out. 
Bethesda Naval isn’t Bethesda Naval anymore. It’s Walter Reed National Medical Center. A combination of Army and Navy. But called Army. I think that’s how these things work. The coverup continues. Layer upon layer. Change this, combine that. Change the entrance from the parking garage into the basement of the Dallas Police Headquarters where Lee Harvey Oswald was shot.  Sell the Department of State’s Annex 11 to an apartment developer. Then maybe get a privately owned trucking company to move all the files somewhere else. But keep the real good records for yourself at places like the Hoover Institute, to be viewed by Authorized Personnel Only. 
Steve
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