The Johnnie Walker Oswald story

The Johnnie Walker of Grand Prairie Oswald story--what to make of it?


To Greg P.: could you give your analysis of this story? Who did Johnnie Walker encounter in Grand Prairie on Thu night, Oct 24, 1963? Was it an impersonation of Oswald (but if so why?), or not?

Is this witness credible who voluntarily appeared to the FBI, seeks no publicity, tries to give names and contact information of further corroborating witnesses, and claims she was not drinking or intoxicated that evening? It can probably be excluded that the man she remembered was Oswald (e.g. nobody else ever referred to Oswald as having coffee-making equipment by which to serve guests in his room; and the tattoo). But the individual as remembered by this witness represented as Oswald.

The coffee-making and the dagger tattoo, plus the physical description of shorter height, slicked-down hair and remembered as looking younger than Oswald, could suggest Craford (in agreement with Craford in all of those particulars), by way of the tattoo on the "Oswald" misidentified companion of Jack Ruby at the Contract Electronics store sighting ([url=https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=308&search=Ruby_oswald contract electronics]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=308[/url]); and Craford referred to his making coffee and serving coffee at the Carousel Club, in his Warren Commission testimony. BUT, in the Contract Electronics case that was a mistaken identification with no claim on Craford's part to be Oswald. This case with Johnnie Walker is someone representing himself as Oswald. If it isn't Oswald (which the tattoo says it is not) then it is either impersonation or a deluded witness. But if impersonation, why? What motive? 

Did Johnnie Walker have an overactive imagination over the course of seven months stemming from an encounter with possibly Craford conflated in memory with Oswald from the news until she believed it was true, to the point of trying to be a good citizen and tell her imagination to the FBI (like law enforcement gets other walk-ins in high-profile cases who do not check out)? What was going on here? Thanks.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110325#relPageId=4 

(I am having trouble figuring how to make the document display so am typing the document manually.)

[START document]

5/19/64, FBI [Odum]. Mrs. James Willie Walker, also known as Johnnie Walker, 2437 Varsity Drive, Grand Prairie, Texas, employed at Vaughn's Candy Kitchen, 29th Street, Grand Prairie, Texas, appeared at the Dallas office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and furnished the following information:

She stated she wanted it understood that she would receive no publicity as a result of furnishing this information, and pointed out further that she is married and her husband is a long-time employee of Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV).

Walker stated she is convinced that she spent about two hours with Lee Harvey Oswald between 8:00 and 10:00 PM, on a Thursday night, about seven days before Halloween, 1963. She stated that she was supposed to be out calling for her church on a visitation program but a girl friend, Helen Seton, wanted to run around so she took her to the residence of Harold Zotch, Lakeview Drive, Grand Prairie, Texas, telephone Am. 2-6065, also an employee of LTV. She stated she knows that Zotch, in addition to working for LTV, is a bootlegger and a dope peddler, and she has furnished this information previously to authorities.

On this particular evening, Junior Biggs was at Zotch's home and introduced Walker to Oswald Lee, who she believes is identical to Lee Harvey Oswald, after seeing pictures of him on television. She stated Lee received a telephone call soon after she arrived and his only comment on the telephone was "Yeh." Later, Lee told Walker he was working at either the Texas Book Store or the Taylor Book Store and he had been working there only eight days. Junior Biggs commented that Walker did not have to worry about Lee's wife, as she lived in Irving, Texas. Lee stated he had a room in Oak Cliff.

Later on, some mention was made of coffee and Junior said Lee made real good coffee, and mentioned he had been to Lee's room. Walker asked Lee what nationality he was and Junior answered for him saying, "He is Barbarian." Walker asked what a Barbarian was and Junior replied, "You've read about the Romans, haven't you?" Walker stated she still did not know what he meant, but dropped the inquiry.

During the evening, Junior Biggs stated Lee was writing a book and would have it finished by Thanksgiving. Lee told Walker the book was about life inside Russia and he claimed to have been there.

During this period of about two hours, Lee was drinking only coffee. The others, except Walker, were drinking beer and whiskey, but Walker, because she had to return to the church, was not drinking anything but coffee.

During the latter part of the visit, Lee received another telephone call and said, "It's about time, ain't it?" Thereafter, he was on the phone for fifteen to thirty minutes, mostly listening, and occasionally interjecting "Yeh." 

About 10:00 PM, Lee left with a tall, dark-headed young man, who was driving an old-model car. He had come for Lee. Walker could not further describe him.

Walker stated she thought no more about this incident until the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, on November 22, 1963. She then asked Helen Seton if she recalled meeting Oswald Lee and Helen replied that she was getting a divorce and did not have time to get mixed up in anything else. Walker also asked Junior Biggs about this man and Junior claimed that that evening was the first time and the last time he had ever seen Lee. Junior Biggs is no longer around Grand Prairie, although he frequented Zotch's home from February, 1963 until about Christmas, 1963. He is originally from Michigan.

Helen Seton resides on Watson Street in Grand Prairie and Walker believes the number is 1448. It is the second house south of Varsity Drive. During the day, she keeps the children of her brother, "Buggie" O'Neal, who lives on Aggie Drive, Grand Prairie, telephone AN 2-2059. 

Walker described the person introduced to her as Oswald Lee as a white male, 24, 5'5", 140 lbs., medium complexion, dark eyes, dark brown hair, slicked down, wearing old clothes, clean and neat, having a tattoo of a dagger with a snake on his left forearm. She asked him what this meant and he stated it meant, "Don't tread on me." She then asked him what he meant by "tread" and he said, "You know, don't step on me."

At the termination of this interview, Walker requested specifically that she be allowed to look at a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. She was shown a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald made by the Dallas, Texas, Police Department, November 22, 1963, and stated she believes this is the same person she met, but she twice asked if the interviewer was positive that this was a photograph of Oswald. She stated the man she met looked younger, but she believes the man she met as Oswald Lee is Lee Harvey Oswald.

[END document]

Greg_Doudna wrote:The Johnnie Walker of Grand Prairie Oswald story--what to make of it?


To Greg P.: could you give your analysis of this story? Who did Johnnie Walker encounter in Grand Prairie on Thu night, Oct 24, 1963? Was it an impersonation of Oswald (but if so why?), or not?

Is this witness credible who voluntarily appeared to the FBI, seeks no publicity, tries to give names and contact information of further corroborating witnesses, and claims she was not drinking or intoxicated that evening? It can probably be excluded that the man she remembered was Oswald (e.g. nobody else ever referred to Oswald as having coffee-making equipment by which to serve guests in his room; and the tattoo). But the individual as remembered by this witness represented as Oswald.

The coffee-making and the dagger tattoo, plus the physical description of shorter height, slicked-down hair and remembered as looking younger than Oswald, could suggest Craford (in agreement with Craford in all of those particulars), by way of the tattoo on the "Oswald" misidentified companion of Jack Ruby at the Contract Electronics store sighting ([url=https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=308&search=Ruby_oswald contract electronics]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142#relPageId=308[/url]); and Craford referred to his making coffee and serving coffee at the Carousel Club, in his Warren Commission testimony. BUT, in the Contract Electronics case that was a mistaken identification with no claim on Craford's part to be Oswald. This case with Johnnie Walker is someone representing himself as Oswald. If it isn't Oswald (which the tattoo says it is not) then it is either impersonation or a deluded witness. But if impersonation, why? What motive? 

Did Johnnie Walker have an overactive imagination over the course of seven months stemming from an encounter with possibly Craford conflated in memory with Oswald from the news until she believed it was true, to the point of trying to be a good citizen and tell her imagination to the FBI (like law enforcement gets other walk-ins in high-profile cases who do not check out)? What was going on here? Thanks.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=110325#relPageId=4 

(I am having trouble figuring how to make the document display so am typing the document manually.)

[START document]

5/19/64, FBI [Odum]. Mrs. James Willie Walker, also known as Johnnie Walker, 2437 Varsity Drive, Grand Prairie, Texas, employed at Vaughn's Candy Kitchen, 29th Street, Grand Prairie, Texas, appeared at the Dallas office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and furnished the following information:

She stated she wanted it understood that she would receive no publicity as a result of furnishing this information, and pointed out further that she is married and her husband is a long-time employee of Ling-Temco-Vought (LTV).

Walker stated she is convinced that she spent about two hours with Lee Harvey Oswald between 8:00 and 10:00 PM, on a Thursday night, about seven days before Halloween, 1963. She stated that she was supposed to be out calling for her church on a visitation program but a girl friend, Helen Seton, wanted to run around so she took her to the residence of Harold Zotch, Lakeview Drive, Grand Prairie, Texas, telephone Am. 2-6065, also an employee of LTV. She stated she knows that Zotch, in addition to working for LTV, is a bootlegger and a dope peddler, and she has furnished this information previously to authorities.

On this particular evening, Junior Biggs was at Zotch's home and introduced Walker to Oswald Lee, who she believes is identical to Lee Harvey Oswald, after seeing pictures of him on television. She stated Lee received a telephone call soon after she arrived and his only comment on the telephone was "Yeh." Later, Lee told Walker he was working at either the Texas Book Store or the Taylor Book Store and he had been working there only eight days. Junior Biggs commented that Walker did not have to worry about Lee's wife, as she lived in Irving, Texas. Lee stated he had a room in Oak Cliff.

Later on, some mention was made of coffee and Junior said Lee made real good coffee, and mentioned he had been to Lee's room. Walker asked Lee what nationality he was and Junior answered for him saying, "He is Barbarian." Walker asked what a Barbarian was and Junior replied, "You've read about the Romans, haven't you?" Walker stated she still did not know what he meant, but dropped the inquiry.

During the evening, Junior Biggs stated Lee was writing a book and would have it finished by Thanksgiving. Lee told Walker the book was about life inside Russia and he claimed to have been there.

During this period of about two hours, Lee was drinking only coffee. The others, except Walker, were drinking beer and whiskey, but Walker, because she had to return to the church, was not drinking anything but coffee.

During the latter part of the visit, Lee received another telephone call and said, "It's about time, ain't it?" Thereafter, he was on the phone for fifteen to thirty minutes, mostly listening, and occasionally interjecting "Yeh." 

About 10:00 PM, Lee left with a tall, dark-headed young man, who was driving an old-model car. He had come for Lee. Walker could not further describe him.

Walker stated she thought no more about this incident until the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, on November 22, 1963. She then asked Helen Seton if she recalled meeting Oswald Lee and Helen replied that she was getting a divorce and did not have time to get mixed up in anything else. Walker also asked Junior Biggs about this man and Junior claimed that that evening was the first time and the last time he had ever seen Lee. Junior Biggs is no longer around Grand Prairie, although he frequented Zotch's home from February, 1963 until about Christmas, 1963. He is originally from Michigan.

Helen Seton resides on Watson Street in Grand Prairie and Walker believes the number is 1448. It is the second house south of Varsity Drive. During the day, she keeps the children of her brother, "Buggie" O'Neal, who lives on Aggie Drive, Grand Prairie, telephone AN 2-2059. 

Walker described the person introduced to her as Oswald Lee as a white male, 24, 5'5", 140 lbs., medium complexion, dark eyes, dark brown hair, slicked down, wearing old clothes, clean and neat, having a tattoo of a dagger with a snake on his left forearm. She asked him what this meant and he stated it meant, "Don't tread on me." She then asked him what he meant by "tread" and he said, "You know, don't step on me."

At the termination of this interview, Walker requested specifically that she be allowed to look at a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald. She was shown a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald made by the Dallas, Texas, Police Department, November 22, 1963, and stated she believes this is the same person she met, but she twice asked if the interviewer was positive that this was a photograph of Oswald. She stated the man she met looked younger, but she believes the man she met as Oswald Lee is Lee Harvey Oswald.

[END document]

I've said it before and I'lll say it again. No plotters would use someone to immitate Lee so badly. Not only the tattoo. and height.. the real Lee would never say "It's about time, ain't it?"

So if it was not the real Lee, how to account for the details that point to him? It appears the witness here has been unable to distinguage between real memories and what has been gleaned from the media. A common phenomenon.

So, having established it was not Lee - could not be Lee, I really don't care who it was.

But I know you want to know. 

So here are two possibilities. Neither include Crafard.

1. Ruby was known to have small groups of men in the club who all had dagger tattoos. The witness - a former employee - thought the men were pachukos. 
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=944

Pachucos were similar to militant Chicano groups such as the Brown Berets from the early 1970s, although they were not as sophisticated or organized. They wore flamboyant, colorful “zoot suits” accompanied by wide brimmed hats and pocket watches with long chains.

Snappy dressers, so unless this "old clothes" wearer has taken a day off from being a pachuko, we can probably rule this possibilty out.

The second option is that it was Herbert Lee. That name gets misremembered by Johnnie as Oswald Lee. Lee had been in the navy. Navy guys like tattoos.

The meaning of the tattoo?  If a snake is wrapped around a dagger, it is usually a reference to the Roman god Mercury.

Mercury, according to wiki, is the god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence, messages, communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery, and thieves; he also serves as the guide of souls to the underworld. 

The spanner in the works is that he seems to have had an accent of indeterminent origin (Walker asked Lee what nationality he was and Junior answered for him saying, "He is Barbarian."). She would surely recognise a Texan or Louisiana accent (or hybrid of the two. Likewise a Latino accent on the off-chance it really was a pachuko?

Otherwise it was just a random.

I do take umbrage at the constant attempts by researchers to claim witnessses to erroneous Oswald sightings were either seeing a deliberate impersonation OR the witness must be deluded.

Some such witnesses were deluded. But most were just honestly mistaken. Memory is a tricky thing.

By the way.. the home-owner and LTV worker was Harold ZOCH (not Zotch).

He possibly did have an accent if he grew up around relatives from Germany. If so, Johnnie's memory got confused about who sounded foreign.

https://wendishresearch.org/history/scrapbooks/Lee_County/_Community_News_by_Individual/Zoch,%20Harrold%20H.pdf

Greg Parker wrote:I've said it before and I'lll say it again. No plotters would use someone to immitate Lee so badly. Not only the tattoo. and height.. the real Lee would never say "It's about time, ain't it?"

So if it was not the real Lee, how to account for the details that point to him? It appears the witness here has been unable to distinguage between real memories and what has been gleaned from the media. A common phenomenon.

This makes sense, in agreement with my suggestion which is what I think happened. (Unless the second of your two suggestions below modifies that.) 

Greg Parker wrote:So here are two possibilities. Neither include Crafard.

1. Ruby was known to have small groups of men in the club who all had dagger tattoos. The witness - a former employee - thought the men were pachukos. 
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317#relPageId=944

Pachucos were similar to militant Chicano groups such as the Brown Berets from the early 1970s, although they were not as sophisticated or organized. They wore flamboyant, colorful “zoot suits” accompanied by wide brimmed hats and pocket watches with long chains.

Snappy dressers, so unless this "old clothes" wearer has taken a day off from being a pachuko, we can probably rule this possibilty out.

Also, the pachukos mentioned in Ruby's establishment had their tattoos on their hand between thumb and forefinger whereas the Johnnie Walker man's tattoo was on the left arm, so no connection there. 

Greg Parker wrote:The second option is that it was Herbert Lee. That name gets misremembered by Johnnie as Oswald Lee. Lee had been in the navy. Navy guys like tattoos.

This is interesting, hadn't thought of that. It would immediately account for the last name "Lee", living in Oak Cliff, and living in a room, at least those three details. I checked Herbert Lee's FBI interview report and Herbert Lee told the FBI in Dec 1963 that he and his friend lived at the N. Beckley rooming house for four or five weeks until moving out Nov. 1, which would be compatible with the Oct. 24 date of the Johnnie Walker story. 


Herbert Lee told the FBI he never knew anything about or met or remembered Oswald but, if Oswald was also living there (I realize you and Ed Ledoux don't think so), that may or may not have been true. To me, the police finding of all sorts of Oswald items in the N. Beckley room is more likely explained by Oswald living there than that multiple police were witting to fabricating an entire story of the police finds there with no one blowing a whistle on such a massive fabrication. That Oswald went from the TSBD to the Texas Theatre in Oak Cliff on Nov 22, combined with Earlene Roberts' story of Oswald dashing in and out at about 1 pm shortly before Oswald is confirmed in the Texas Theatre, to me also supports Oswald living in Oak Cliff and at that rooming house. And if Oswald was living there on N. Beckley, there is another point that could support your interesting Herbert Lee suggestion (which you will not be able to consider if you view Oswald as not living at that rooming house): the possibility that that itself could account for--possibly--Johnnie Walker's tattoo-man dropping details related to Oswald. Not as impersonation in any larger agenda, no purpose served but just, so to speak, for the hell of it (like men chatting up women in a bar). It could be a mechanism of how knowledge of details related to Oswald by that man came into that picture. This would be if Herbert Lee during his time at the N. Beckley rooming house did overlap with Oswald there, at the same time as the Johnnie Walker incident, and did know something of his fellow roomer in that house, more than Herbert Lee let on to the FBI. It could make sense of the Johnnie Walker story. 

Greg Parker wrote:The spanner in the works is that he seems to have had an accent of indeterminent origin (Walker asked Lee what nationality he was and Junior answered for him saying, "He is Barbarian."). She would surely recognise a Texan or Louisiana accent (or hybrid of the two.

This is interesting, also had not thought of that: that her question on nationality could have been prompted by hearing an accent. Could be, though it is also part of some icebreaker conversations like "how long have you lived in this city?", "what do you do?" and "what's your astrological sign?", asking (in America of diverse ancestry origins) what your ancestry is. In which case it might not necessarily signal she heard an accent. I have been casually asked my ancestry countless times and I have no accent other than standard midwest American.  

Greg Parker wrote:Otherwise it was just a random.

I do take umbrage at the constant attempts by researchers to claim witnessses to erroneous Oswald sightings were either seeing a deliberate impersonation OR the witness must be deluded.

Some such witnesses were deluded. But most were just honestly mistaken. Memory is a tricky thing.

Agree. (When I said deluded I meant mistaken memory as you are saying here, in the sense of deluded = false but sincerely believed vs. lying = false and witting false. I think you are meaning it in the sense of people claiming such witness sightings never happened, like hallucination, whereas most such witness sightings did happen, just the identifications or interpretation can be mistaken.)  

Thanks for the Herbert Lee possibility. I don't know whether that is right but it is at least intriguing if an identification is to be considered. Otherwise, a random mistaken witness as you say. Thanks!

Greg D,

you wrote:

To me, the police finding of all sorts of Oswald items in the N. Beckley room is more likely explained by Oswald living there than that multiple police were witting to fabricating an entire story of the police finds there with no one blowing a whistle on such a massive fabrication. 


With all due respect and with what is now known as fact thanks to the Texas Innocence project, Errol Morris' "The Thin Blue Line" documentary and Mary Mapes fantastic article "When Henry Wade executed an innocent man" - the story about Tommy Lee Walker, we can be confident that these cops were dirty, and the ones who weren't went along for the ride. It is how the Police corruption survived in Dallas up until Newly appointed District Attorney Craig Watkins came along and started investigating previous police convictions in 2007.
There were no Police whistle blowers despite the enormity of the problem, they all took part and had a hand in putting innocent men away inside - or worse sent to their deaths.


So, to put that into perspective I don't think it's a stretch by any means to suggest that the police back then would have covered for one another particularly something as mundane as planting evidence. 

Mick_Purdy wrote:Greg D,

you wrote:

To me, the police finding of all sorts of Oswald items in the N. Beckley room is more likely explained by Oswald living there than that multiple police were witting to fabricating an entire story of the police finds there with no one blowing a whistle on such a massive fabrication. 


With all due respect and with what is now known as fact thanks to the Texas Innocence project, Errol Morris' "The Thin Blue Line" documentary and Mary Mapes fantastic article "When Henry Wade executed an innocent man" - the story about Tommy Lee Walker, we can be confident that these cops were dirty, and the ones who weren't went along for the ride. It is how the Police corruption survived in Dallas up until Newly appointed District Attorney Craig Watkins came along and started investigating previous police convictions in 2007.
There were no Police whistle blowers despite the enormity of the problem, they all took part and had a hand in putting innocent men away inside - or worse sent to their deaths.


So, to put that into perspective I don't think it's a stretch by any means to suggest that the police back then would have covered for one another particularly something as mundane as planting evidence. 

I remember the movie Serpico (based on a true story). That said it all as far as not being a whistleblower in the force.

They really didn't even have to plant anything in the room - just make a scene out of carrying whatever shit was in there, out in bags. All that mattered was labelling some of the belongings from the Paines as having been found there.

Herbert Lee was bullshitting about when he left. Note that they asked his friend, James Watson, which room he stayed in (I think he said "18"), but Lee was not asked about his room. 

I say that was for a very good reason. He was in Room 0.

And he was bullshitting about when he left.

If it was actually Herbert Lee who moved in on Oct 14, as I believe was the case - and he stayed there per the FBI report for 4 or 5 weeks - that takes it up to leaving sometime between Nov 11 and Nov 18.

Gladys Johnson herself tells us it was Nov 13.

Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that. (what she should have brought was her ledgers)
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts. (she is lying. It is all Earlen's writing)
Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A.
[Exhibit so marked.]
Mr. BALL. Could we make a copy of this and return this to you, Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $30 is what I have received, all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do. I hated to be rude to people, I didn't know what to do but they got so---- (What did she get $30 for? Compensation for the shit they took from the room. And she wants to keep this to make more money. Money was her motivation for going along - even though I think it was originally a genuine case of mistaken identity by her daughter)
Mr. BALL. We will make a picture of this and give it back to you.
Mrs. JOHNSON. May I have something to erase this November 13, 15--I got that wrong, anyway. I was looking at the calendar and this, I was thinking it was November 13 that he left he left my place on a Wednesday before this assassination on Friday. (here she is trying to claim that she herself wrote that note at the bottom with the date. She didn't. Again - it was Earlene. These scraps of paper were Earlenes records of who the guests were and when they paid. The scraps of info would then be given to Gladys weekly otr monthly- along with the collected rent money - so that Gladys could update the ledgers. No way no how did Gladys misremember the date of the assassination as being the 15th.  The note originally stated that Mr Lee moved out on 11/13. That was a wednesday - the last day Gladys saw him and it was written by Earlene for Gladys's permanent records. 
Mr. BALL. That was the last time you saw him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yeah; the last time I saw him was on a Wednesday but my housekeeper seen him on a Friday morning right after this assassination, he came by the house hurriedly




And she proves here what a Nosey Parker she was. No chance of hiding commie magazines, pistols or holsters in that tiny room with Gladys and Earlene sniffing around.

Mrs. JOHNSON. I certainly did. It had French doors to it; folding open, you couldn't help but see everything, the books and all they took out of these chests of drawers. They was throwin' them down on the bed.

I think they may have used pillow cases or sheets to carry the booty out.. again compensated for with $30. 

BTW, Hugh Aynseworth claimed in 1983 that Earlene told him that the occupant of room 0 had only been there a few days. If Mr Lee moved out on Nov 13, then it is more than possible someone else moved in "a few days" prior to the assassination.    

That would have been Floyd DeGraffenreid. The books they tossed on the bed were his, and he only read one genre - westerns. 

Like others, he would have moved in and out of the boarding depending on where he was working at any given time.

He was also mistaken for Oswald as someone who went for a beer with an employee of the gas station nearby sometime in October. 

This is how silly these misidentifations get. Floyd was short and always wore cowboy clothes. 

But an interesting point is that when he went for this beer, the gas station employee needed a clean shirt so Floyd raced over the boarding house, raced in and grabbed one of his for his friend. Do you think maybe Earlene saw him race in....? To be fair, Floyd said this "probably" happened in October an did the original infomant, Jerry Duncan. But the employee, John Ford, did say he didn't move out of the area and that job until sometime in November, so they could be mistaken about when it happened.

What I am suggesting here is that Floyd lived in the boarding house - room unknown - back in October. He moved out at some stage for work and then moved back in to the only available room - room 0 - sometime after Nov 13. 

In effect, Mr Lee AND Floyd had to morph into Oswald in the official records - accomplished by the fact that the grand-daughter of the Johnsons stated in 2013 that her grandmother has destroyed her ledgers because of the painful reminders. If you believe that, I have a bridge i Brooklyn and another in Sydney in a once in a lifetime two for the price of one deal. The money hungry Johnsons would have sold the ledgers if they could have. They destroyed them instead, to hide the truth about who occupied that tiny room and when.

greg_parker wrote:Herbert Lee was bullshitting about when he left. Note that they asked his friend, James Watson, which room he stayed in (I think he said "18"), but Lee was not asked about his room. 

I say that was for a very good reason. He was in Room 0.

And he was bullshitting about when he left.

If it was actually Herbert Lee who moved in on Oct 14, as I believe was the case - and he stayed there per the FBI report for 4 or 5 weeks - that takes it up to leaving sometime between Nov 11 and Nov 18.

Gladys Johnson herself tells us it was Nov 13.

Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that. (what she should have brought was her ledgers)
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts. (she is lying. It is all Earlen's writing)
Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A.
[Exhibit so marked.]
Mr. BALL. Could we make a copy of this and return this to you, Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $30 is what I have received, all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do. I hated to be rude to people, I didn't know what to do but they got so---- (What did she get $30 for? Compensation for the shit they took from the room. And she wants to keep this to make more money. Money was her motivation for going along - even though I think it was originally a genuine case of mistaken identity by her daughter)
Mr. BALL. We will make a picture of this and give it back to you.
Mrs. JOHNSON. May I have something to erase this November 13, 15--I got that wrong, anyway. I was looking at the calendar and this, I was thinking it was November 13 that he left he left my place on a Wednesday before this assassination on Friday. (here she is trying to claim that she herself wrote that note at the bottom with the date. She didn't. Again - it was Earlene. These scraps of paper were Earlenes records of who the guests were and when they paid. The scraps of info would then be given to Gladys weekly otr monthly- along with the collected rent money - so that Gladys could update the ledgers. No way no how did Gladys misremember the date of the assassination as being the 15th.  The note originally stated that Mr Lee moved out on 11/13. That was a wednesday - the last day Gladys saw him and it was written by Earlene for Gladys's permanent records. 
Mr. BALL. That was the last time you saw him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yeah; the last time I saw him was on a Wednesday but my housekeeper seen him on a Friday morning right after this assassination, he came by the house hurriedly




And she proves here what a Nosey Parker she was. No chance of hiding commie magazines, pistols or holsters in that tiny room with Gladys and Earlene sniffing around.

Mrs. JOHNSON. I certainly did. It had French doors to it; folding open, you couldn't help but see everything, the books and all they took out of these chests of drawers. They was throwin' them down on the bed.

I think they may have used pillow cases or sheets to carry the booty out.. again compensated for with $30. 

BTW, Hugh Aynseworth claimed in 1983 that Earlene told him that the occupant of room 0 had only been there a few days. If Mr Lee moved out on Nov 13, then it is more than possible someone else moved in "a few days" prior to the assassination.    

That would have been Floyd DeGraffenreid. The books they tossed on the bed were his, and he only read one genre - westerns. 

Like others, he would have moved in and out of the boarding depending on where he was working at any given time.

He was also mistaken for Oswald as someone who went for a beer with an employee of the gas station nearby sometime in October. 

This is how silly these misidentifations get. Floyd was short and always wore cowboy clothes. 

But an interesting point is that when he went for this beer, the gas station employee needed a clean shirt so Floyd raced over the boarding house, raced in and grabbed one of his for his friend. Do you think maybe Earlene saw him race in....? To be fair, Floyd said this "probably" happened in October an did the original infomant, Jerry Duncan. But the employee, John Ford, did say he didn't move out of the area and that job until sometime in November, so they could be mistaken about when it happened.

What I am suggesting here is that Floyd lived in the boarding house - room unknown - back in October. He moved out at some stage for work and then moved back in to the only available room - room 0 - sometime after Nov 13. 

In effect, Mr Lee AND Floyd had to morph into Oswald in the official records - accomplished by the fact that the grand-daughter of the Johnsons stated in 2013 that her grandmother has destroyed her ledgers because of the painful reminders. If you believe that, I have a bridge i Brooklyn and another in Sydney in a once in a lifetime two for the price of one deal. The money hungry Johnsons would have sold the ledgers if they could have. They destroyed them instead, to hide the truth about who occupied that tiny room and when.

Greg P., what you are reading as "11-13-63" I am sorry I believe that is mistaken. It clearly is a handwritten expected "11-18-63". Look carefully at that number you are saying is a "3" and compare it to the other "8"'s (which is what it is) and the other "3"'s (which is what it isn't).  

That paper shows $8.00 paid on that date, the expected date for a week's rent, Monday 11-18-63, the last rent paid by "O.H. Lee" for room 0 on the slip of paper. What would have been the expected next weekly rent payment date, 11-25-63, the date is written in but no record of payment. After 11/22/63 room 0 was unoccupied and all of O.H. Lee's belongings therein taken away by police and nobody paid rent for it on 11/25/63. The note does not give any date of move-out but does give the last recorded weekly rent payment from that individual as 11/18/63. 

And the name on the paper, the name of the man in room 0 paying that $8.00 per week is O.H. Lee, Oswald's alias there according to Ruth and Marina and Lee himself (according to interrogation notes after his arrest, except Lee claimed it was not an alias but was a misunderstanding of Earlene Roberts, but did not dispute that his name there was O.H. Lee). The name on this rent payment notation of the man who paid $8.00 rent last on 11-18-63 is the name Oswald himself told both Marina and his interrogators at the police station was his name there, O.H. Lee, not Herbert L. Lee or DeGraffenreid.

The FBI interview of Herbert Lee's friend James D. Watson briefly at the same rooming house, interviewed in Paris, Texas on Dec. 19, 1963: Watson remembered and identified the man who lived in the location corresponding to room 0 "early in November, 1963" as Oswald whom he recognized on TV: "Watson claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald, unknown to him by name until he saw Oswald's picture on television, resided in a small room off the hall going from the living room to the kitchen." ([url=https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=537&search=James_douglas watson]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=537[/url])

Lots of witnesses support Oswald roomed there in addition to the landlady and housekeeper and fellow tenants. I really have not studied and don't understand this idea that the Dallas Police fabricated Lee living at that address. Makes no sense at all to me, but never mind that, I have no wish to argue it if that's what you think. The main thing is you opened up a possibility I had not previously considered of how the man of Johnnie Walker's story, who clearly was not actually Oswald, could nevertheless have reflected details of information about Oswald that evening--if the man Johnnie Walker talked to that evening was someone from Oswald's rooming house who appropriated exotic details of the other roomer's story, a mechanism for knowledge. Talking of writing a book about having been to Russia better to impress the lady than saying "I work in a carpet store". I'm still thinking it over, but you may have suggested an important solution to that baffling Johnnie Walker story--if it was Herbert Lee who was the Mr. Lee whom Johnnie Walker remembered as the man's last name that evening. Brilliant! (If that is the solution, still thinking it over.) Again thanks for that.

I see in Gus Russo's Live by the Sword (1998) he cites a 1993 interview of his own with "one of Oswald's roommates at the Beckley Street house, Leon Lee" then in Florida, who according to Russo said he did see, remember, and know Oswald at the rooming house when he was there--contrary to what Herbert Leon Lee told the FBI in Dec 1963 claiming he never remembered seeing Oswald at all. Quoting Leon Lee:

"I remember that Lee used to occasionally get picked up and dropped off by someone who would park his car on the street and wait out there for Lee to join him. That wasn't all that unusual, though, because few of the tenants had cars, and we always had friends give us rides." (p. 264)

Note also the match between Johnnie Walker's Mr. Lee in Grand Prairie on Oct 24, 1963, who did not have a car of his own but was picked up by someone for his drive back to Oak Cliff, in agreement with Herbert Lee who speaks of himself ("we") as included among the most of the tenants at the Beckley rooming house who did not have a car and "had friends give us rides". 

So two more details of correspondence, check and check: Herbert Lee did know who Oswald was at the rooming house where they both lived, and Herbert Lee relied on friends to drive him places since he did not have a car, at the time of Johnnie Walker's encounter in Grand Prairie with a Mr. Lee who left in a car which came to pick him up driven by someone else.

And one more from Russo's 1993 in interview of Leon Lee (Herbert Leon Lee). Herbert Lee speaking of fellow roomer Oswald:

"He rarely smiled, and always seemed preoccupied. The other tenants used to walk up the street and have an occasional dinner. Oswald only joined us once. He just stayed in his room all night while the rest of us would be in the living room watching television. I remember that he only came out to watch 'The Fugitive,' which he loved". (Live by the Sword, p. 256)

(That's all there is on Herbert Lee in Live by the Sword.)

Greg P., what you are reading as "11-13-63" I am sorry I believe that is mistaken. It clearly is a handwritten expected "11-18-63". Look carefully at that number you are saying is a "3" and compare it to the other "8"'s (which is what it is) and the other "3"'s (which is what it isn't).  

Greg, I apologise for any lack of clarity that led you up this garden path.

I was not referring to what is visible. I was referring to what was erased by the Warren Commssion at the request of Gladys.

Here it is again from her testimony

Mrs. JOHNSON. May I have something to erase this November 13, 15--I got that wrong, anyway. I was looking at the calendar and this, I was thinking it was November 13 that he left he left my place on a Wednesday before this assassination on Friday. 

I say that is utter bullshit. How could she misremember the date of the assassination? She didn't. Nor did she write what she had them erase. It was written by Earlene, as I explained above, for the purpose of periodiacally informing Gladys of payment receipt and of the new guests and any who had left, so she could update the ledgers.

What the erased note said was "moved out 11/13/63" In other words it was Earlene informing gladys that Herbert Lee moved out of Room 0 on 11/13.

Herbert testified he was there for 4 or 5 weeks. The person who moved into room 0, did so on Oct 14. If you add 4 or 5 weeks to that, then by his own maths. he left between Nov 11 and Nov 18. Nov 13 fits in neatly with that.

That paper shows $8.00 paid on that date, the expected date for a week's rent, Monday 11-18-63, the last rent paid by "O.H. Lee" for room 0 on the slip of paper. What would have been the expected next weekly rent payment date, 11-25-63, the date is written in but no record of payment. After 11/22/63 room 0 was unoccupied and all of O.H. Lee's belongings therein taken away by police and nobody paid rent for it on 11/25/63. The note does not give any date of move-out but does give the last recorded weekly rent payment from that individual as 11/18/63. 

It doesn't give any date of his moving out because the WC obligingly erased evidence at the request of Gladys.

Or maybe you think they made notes of the comings and goings of all their guests?

I can just imagine Secret Squirrel Earlene on the job

Pulling out her notebook...

"Nov 21 H Lee or OH Lee (damnit I can't tell which is which), left for work.  Has not returned as of 6:00pm. May have to revoke his fridge privelages and hide his cowboy books to teach him a lesson."

The "O" in the "H Lee" was added. The payment for 11/18 was added. The following weeks date was added. 

The FBI interview of Herbert Lee's friend James D. Watson briefly at the same rooming house, interviewed in Paris, Texas on Dec. 19, 1963: Watson remembered and identified the man who lived in the location corresponding to room 0 "early in November, 1963" as Oswald whom he recognized on TV: "Watson claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald, unknown to him by name until he saw Oswald's picture on television, resided in a small room off the hall going from the living room to the kitchen." ([url=https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=537&search=James_douglas watson]https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=537[/url])

Of course, Herbert never spoke to his friend and clued him on what to say.

And why is everyone who claimed to recall Odswald, so split on there descriptions The grand-daughter, Pat Hall claimed "Mr Lee"  (supposedly Oswald) was friendly and good to her and her brothers.  Some say he never ventured out of his room, others say he watched TV. 

Pat Hall was describing Herbert - the ONLY Mr Lee who was staying there. Others were describing Floyd Degraffenreid who moved into that room after Herbert. Why would they do that, you may ask? Because they were told that Oswald had been the one living in there the whole time - and by the very nature of the place, people moved in and out rapidly. Most would not have known Floyd had only been there a short time.

And I remind you here of what Earlene told Hugh Aynseworth on Nov 22. "She told me that the man had registered under the name “O.H. Lee” and that he had only been there for a few days."  And that part was true - because she was talking about Degraffenreid. 

Unfortunately Floyd passed away in June. In recent years he was contacted by our own Ed Ledoux but declined to answer any questions. 

Lots of witnesses support Oswald roomed there in addition to the landlady and housekeeper and fellow tenants.

Roberts was fired in case she blabbed.

Gladys initially had no reason to doubt her daughter who was the one who misidentified Herbert as LHO. But I am also certain she fairly quickly worked out it was mistake. Pressure from the cops and the hope of making money by claiming the assassin slept here became her prime motivations. And I still want to know who paid her $30 and why.

The roomers were all short termers and simply believed whoever was in Room 0 while they themselves were living there, was Oswald. That is what they were told.

I really have not studied and don't understand this idea that the Dallas Police fabricated Lee living at that address.

The daughter of the Johnsons witnessed LHO's arrest from across the street and misidentified him as one of the boarders at her parents boarding house - a Mr Lee. When the cops came, they checked the-soon-to-disappear ledgers and asked Earlene and Gladys to show them the entry for this Mr Lee. It showed

Room 0  H Lee. They took the room number to be the first initial and thus OH Lee was born out of thin air.

Makes no sense at all to me, but never mind that, I have no wish to argue it if that's what you think.

That it makes no sense to you is obvious and is the result of what you admit. You haven't studied it.

The main thing is you opened up a possibility I had not previously considered of how the man of Johnnie Walker's story, who clearly was not actually Oswald, could nevertheless have reflected details of information about Oswald that evening--if the man Johnnie Walker talked to that evening was someone from Oswald's rooming house who appropriated exotic details of the other roomer's story, a mechanism for knowledge. Talking of writing a book about having been to Russia better to impress the lady than saying "I work in a carpet store". I'm still thinking it over, but you may have suggested an important solution to that baffling Johnnie Walker story--if it was Herbert Lee who was the Mr. Lee whom Johnnie Walker remembered as the man's last name that evening. Brilliant! (If that is the solution, still thinking it over.) Again thanks for that.

Except what you posit isn't possible because LHO never lived there.

What is possible and plausible and has many verifiable ptrecedents is that she had blended memories.

What I have really given you is the name of a an individual who slipped under the radar. And I am not surprised at all he was later located in Florida. Note however, I do not think Herbert was involved in the assassination. But I do strongly suspect his backstory would be very interesting. To say the least. You know he ended up becoming a cop? You know another guy in this saga likewise was not one of the plotters but nevertheless slipped under the radar - and also became a cop? Two out of two.

Or maybe they were cops/agents all along...

greg_parker wrote:Herbert Lee was bullshitting about when he left. Note that they asked his friend, James Watson, which room he stayed in (I think he said "18"), but Lee was not asked about his room. 

I say that was for a very good reason. He was in Room 0.

And he was bullshitting about when he left.

If it was actually Herbert Lee who moved in on Oct 14, as I believe was the case - and he stayed there per the FBI report for 4 or 5 weeks - that takes it up to leaving sometime between Nov 11 and Nov 18.

Gladys Johnson herself tells us it was Nov 13.

Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that. (what she should have brought was her ledgers)
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts. (she is lying. It is all Earlen's writing)
Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A.
[Exhibit so marked.]
Mr. BALL. Could we make a copy of this and return this to you, Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $30 is what I have received, all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do. I hated to be rude to people, I didn't know what to do but they got so---- (What did she get $30 for? Compensation for the shit they took from the room. And she wants to keep this to make more money. Money was her motivation for going along - even though I think it was originally a genuine case of mistaken identity by her daughter)
Mr. BALL. We will make a picture of this and give it back to you.
Mrs. JOHNSON. May I have something to erase this November 13, 15--I got that wrong, anyway. I was looking at the calendar and this, I was thinking it was November 13 that he left he left my place on a Wednesday before this assassination on Friday. (here she is trying to claim that she herself wrote that note at the bottom with the date. She didn't. Again - it was Earlene. These scraps of paper were Earlenes records of who the guests were and when they paid. The scraps of info would then be given to Gladys weekly otr monthly- along with the collected rent money - so that Gladys could update the ledgers. No way no how did Gladys misremember the date of the assassination as being the 15th.  The note originally stated that Mr Lee moved out on 11/13. That was a wednesday - the last day Gladys saw him and it was written by Earlene for Gladys's permanent records. 
Mr. BALL. That was the last time you saw him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yeah; the last time I saw him was on a Wednesday but my housekeeper seen him on a Friday morning right after this assassination, he came by the house hurriedly

Thanks Greg P I think I have what you're saying, hope I've got it right now. I agree that Earlene wrote the "O.H. Lee" and all the payment dates on that paper, all except the "Out". From Mrs. Johnson's testimony she, Mrs. Johnson, wrote the "Out" and from her testimony she had written (evidently in pencil since she refers to wanting to erase it) "Nov 13". Since the "Nov 13" is not in the exhibit it seems she did erase it before it was accepted as an exhibit from her and photographed. She was allowed to correct what she recognized and said was a mistake on her part and said right while she was testifying that she wished to correct.

Mrs. Johnson explained, in agreement with Earlene and all other information, that Oswald was last there the night of Wed Nov 20. Her writing "Nov 13", a week earlier, the calendar date above by one line, she says (correctly) was in error, explained by her as misreading the line above on a calendar. It is not surprising that she would write the date "OUT" for a tenant no longer living there. She wrote that after the assassination and after Oswald's arrest and belongings had been taken, sort of closing the file on that tenant with the date he was last in the room, except she was off by a week on the calendar date. She told the Warren Commission she had erred, and corrected it apparently right at that moment by erasure while giving testimony. There is no sign she was prompted or scripted to recognize that error and make that correction. It was a spontaneous accurate recognition that she had erred, and she stated it was an error, and corrected it. She was under oath in making that correction.

I disagree with you that there is no way she could have erred in the manner she says she did. On your foundation that Mrs. Johnson could not possibly have made an error in writing down the wrong Wednesday's calendar date from copying down from the wrong line of a calender of November, you consider that proof and build from that that all the Dallas Police lied on finding Oswald's belongings in that room, and that all the varied and disparate witnesses including the interrogation notes of Oswald himself were all forged, scripted, threatened, coerced, or persuaded to join in a massive convergent agreed-upon fake story which either fooled or took in in complicity at least two federal agencies (the Secret Service and FBI) and the Warren Commission! All from a refusal to accept Mrs. Johnson's own explanation that she goofed in writing down the wrong Wednesday calendar date from the line above by mistake, which as soon as she noticed, she, unprompted by the questioners, corrected in real time right as she was testifying for the record.  

In your reconstruction the tenant in room 0 was not really "O.H. Lee" (how Oswald was known to Mrs. Johnson and Earlene according to both Marina and Lee by means of their respective separate interrogations), but rather Herbert Lee--H. Lee in Room 0. Then you have Herbert Lee not moving out on or about the specific date of Nov. 1 that Herbert Lee remembered and told the FBI, but you assume he lied on that and suppose his true time at the rooming house ended with Mrs. Johnson's mistakenly-written (before the erasure) "Nov. 13". 

But that gives a contradiction since the very same slip of paper has this tenant, whom you say moved out Nov. 13 (as written by Mrs. Johnson on the paper before her erasure), paid $8.00 for another week on Mon Nov 18! 


This creates a problem in your reconstruction based on the starting premise that Mrs. Johnson could not possibly err in copying from a calendar the wrong Wednesday date for the Wednesday she intended, even though Mrs. Johnson said she had erred. (You refuse to accept her correction of a mistake.) For if the tenant moved out on Nov 13 he will not have paid on Nov. 18 a further $8.00 for another week's rent. That makes no sense. (Those weeks were paid in advance I think, right?). 

So you solve that by saying those final two dates including the final payment of $8.00 on Nov 18 were added to the slip of paper. But they are in the same Earlene's handwriting as the rest of the dates and amounts, so Earlene must have added them much later at Mrs. Johnson's direction even though Earlene knew full well it wasn't true? And Mrs. Johnson is so incompetent (in this reconstruction which I do not accept) that she got Earlene to falsify a document, and Mrs. Johnson paid or threatened Earlene never to to tell anyone, and Earlene didn't?)--but at the same time Mrs. Johnson forgot to erase the Nov 13 mistaken move-out date before she did that in full view of all with court reporter taking down every word as she testified?

All I can say is this is way too complex and far-fetched for me, all these witnesses that must be assumed orchestrated to knowingly lie for life in a supposed elaborate pretense that Oswald lived there. There is no evidence the witnesses were coerced or orchestrated or suborned in that way nor is there any reasonable mechanism by which so many disparate witnesses scattered to the four winds and across various agencies could have all been so coordinated on such a story. I also do not understand what larger issue is at stake about not having Oswald living at that rooming house under the name "O.H. Lee" as Lee did not dispute he did but offered an explanation for it after his arrest, why this is an issue in the first place. I also find it odd, if I have this right, that you say the whole thing started ca. 12:45 pm on Fri Nov 22, after the assassination, with a mistaken identification on the part of Mrs. Johnson's daughter on Jefferson, and then the Dallas Police spontaneously decided it would just be a great idea en masse for everybody including the police department and all federal agencies to now pretend Oswald lived there even though it wasn't true, and coordinate with federal agencies and local witnesses to get in line with the bogus story and never, ever anybody or any of the federal agencies either tell for the rest of their lives, all of them in on it, all of those civilians and law enforcement agencies alike. No offense intended, but why go in such an outlandish direction? You're so good at seeing through the far-fetched reasoning in the Harvey and Lee arguments--and you're surely right on that--why fall for what looks to me like a sort of lesser form of the same flawed elaborate structures of reasonings in this case? 

(Incidentally, if hypothetically Mrs. Johnson forged that paper with the payments listed, for purposes of creating a memorabilia with monetary value, it would have been based on real and accurate information in a different book of accurate records that is referred to in the testimony and which an owner of a rooming house would have had. That is, if, hypothetically, that payment sheet was fabricated for profit on the part of the Johnsons--I don't think so, there is no evidence it was, but if so--it would be expected still to reflect accurate not inaccurate information. But as I understand it you don't think it was a post-Nov 22 fabricated document but an authentic pre-Nov 22 document that was altered post-Nov 22 by the final two dates added.)

On Herbert Leon Lee, it is an odd coincidence that his last name is the same as Oswald's first name which whether by his intent (per Marina) or by accident of Earlene's transcribing error (Oswald's explanation to Capt. Fritz) came to be Oswald's "last name" to the landlady and housekeeper at the rooming house, where Oswald, with a pattern of secretiveness, did not want his personal information known too much. And yet, the Lee and Lee names coincidence is a coincidence either way, whether Oswald lived there or did not. (Might as well add a third coincidence: I writing about this my middle name is Lee.) If all the police and witnesses and document combined are all faked and Oswald didn't live there even though everybody said he did and police found his things there and Oswald agreed he did under questioning, that still does not remove the coincidence: Herbert Lee and Lee Harvey Oswald were two distinct unrelated individuals sharing that name "Lee". Herbert Lee used his true name and Oswald with a known penchant for aliases and secrecy used his first name as his last, ending up in the coincidence of two distinct and real persons in that rooming house both known as "Mr. Lee". I read that as actual coincidence and non-significant (just as my middle name Lee is coincidence). It is not as if one of those two real individuals fabricated "Lee" in their name--they both were born with it. 

The more I think about this, Herbert Lee as the man remembered by Johnnie Walker that night in Grand Prairie on Sept 24, 1963 makes the best sense as the explanation of Johnnie Walker's story, and it was at ROKC that suggested it. I think it may be a real solution to this longstanding puzzle. Based on the limited information available, Johnnie Walker does not come across as a deluded person. She went to the FBI, not to reporters trying for publicity or enrichment of herself (and asked the FBI not to disclose her name if possible). The big puzzle has been: if she gave what she believed was a true account of a memory from seven months ago, where did the details and information concerning Oswald in that story come from. There are really about only two ways to go with that: one, she learned those details from the news media and it played games with her memory, a "manufactured memory" phenomenon. Or two, her encounter was with someone who indeed was from a rooming house in Oak Cliff who did not have a car and whose name was Mr. Lee, Herbert Lee of the N. Beckley rooming house, at the same time Herbert Lee and Oswald were both at the N. Beckley rooming house (the Oct 24 date of Johnnie Walker's encounter in 
grand Prairie falls exactly within the narrow only two-weeks overlap of Herbert Lee and Oswald as co-tenants there the last two weeks of October), and that is the mechanism able to account for the knowledge of details of Oswald that came up in conversation during the two hours Johnnie spent with her Mr. Lee. 

It is established from Herbert Lee's own later telling (as above), in addition to common sense, that Herbert Lee would have known, and known something about, Oswald in the same rooming house. There still may be some conflation and confusion in Johnnie Walker's memory but much less to account for from what actually happened that evening in her story, than that she got all the Oswald details confused in her memory from the news media. Did Herbert Lee tell Johnnie Walker in the course of that evening some things about Oswald and it was not even a matter of Herbert Lee claiming that was he, with Johnnie Walker, thinking little of it at the time, belatedly remembering after the assassination some of those things, not necessarily accurately connected, but remembered and struggled to remember those details? However it happened, and it is not necessary to know exactly how it happened, there is a reasonable mechanism on the table--not previously recognized--for how Oswald details could turn up in that conversation remembered by Johnnie Walker in Grand Prairie that night. 

Johnnie Walker remembered the man's last name that she met as "Lee", not "Oswald", which is in agreement with Herbert Lee having originally been introduced to her by his true name, last name "Lee". Seven months later to the FBI Johnnie Walker could have added the name "Oswald" as manufactured memory in that particular detail, but she still does not remember "Oswald" as the man's last name but thinks it was or must have been his first name. I see this as a supporting argument in favor of that Herbert Lee was the person she met, whose last name really would have been introduced to her as "Lee". Herbert Lee's telling of the tenants walking in a small group in evenings to a nearby restaurant for dinner, with Oswald not joining in except for one time, gives a picture in which in that tiny community knowledge about any of the roomers would likely become known instantly to the others, like gossip in a small town. If it was Herbert Lee in Grand Prairie that evening with Johnnie Walker, Johnnie Walker's story ironically could become a possible echo or clue to how much of Oswald was known to the other roomers whether or not Oswald was aware of it.