Dial Ryder

Apologies in advance for going slightly Fezian in this post.


Mr. LIEBELER. The Irving Sports Shop was closed?
Mr. RYDER. Right, and he came to the house, so, at that time he showed me pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald and pictures of the gun and asked me about it. I said "Well, the face and the body features of Oswald there was real common in this country." I mean, you know, in this area in Texas and that to say that I had him in the shop, actually, this was after a period of time that we boiled it down to. Oh, I told him I had a ticket with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and tapping and boresighting--no address, or name: he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket and was looking at the pictures, then I seen the gun. Of course, from the picture I told him as far as I could remember I told him I hadn't mounted that scope, you know.
----
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember telling the Secret Service agent that you were certain after viewing photographs of Oswald that you had never done any work for him; in fact had never seen him?
Mr. RYDER. Not actually in that tone; like I say, like I told all of them that interviewed me, even the reporter, that his features are very common, I say, for the working class in the Dallas and Fort Worth area and he could have been in the shop, sport shop, I might ought to say, and be easily mistaken for another person or another person similar to his features could have been in, but I couldn't say specific if he had been in the shop or not, I mean, that's something I won't draw a conclusion on because like I say his features, face and all is common with the working class here and he could easily be mistaken one way or the other either for him or for another person.
---- 
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you say you definitely have ever seen him outside of the shop anyplace?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't believe I have. I mean I couldn't say specific because back again to the common features, so on and so forth, but, actually, we have drawn a conclusion, of course, that is, I and the boys and people concerned at the sport shop there that it was either this Oswald with another gun or another Oswald with another gun. We know definitely that it was another gun. We know that for sure.
----
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are aware of your rights to have an attorney if you want to--we have already discussed that previously, as I recall, and you know who I am, and, of course, you are Dial Ryder and you work at the Irving Sports Shop, and we have had previous testimony concerning the possibility that Lee Harvey Oswald may have had some work done on his rifle in your sports shop. When I talked to you previously, I asked you if I recall correctly about any conversations that you might have had with a newspaper reporter from The Dallas Times Herald; do you recall me asking you about that?
Mr. RYDER. Yes; I do.
Mr. LIEBELER. And my recollection is that you told me that you had not talked to any newspaper reporters from The Dallas Times Herald in connection with the story that appeared in that newspaper on November 28, 1963?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And specifically you had said that you had not talked to a newspaper reporter on the morning of November 28, 1963, although you did say that on that morning, sometime around about 7:30 a newspaper reporter did call you from The Dallas Times Herald and told you that he wanted to talk to you about this whole situation and you refused to talk to him?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And You hung up the telephone and as I recall, you testified that you then took the receiver off the hook, making it impossible for any other calls to come into your telephone; is that correct?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you were interviewed by the FBI again on May 18, 1964, and you told them that same story; is that correct?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that in fact correct?
Mr. RYDER. That's right. It sure is.
Mr. LIEBELER. I want to advise you of the fact that we have located the newspaper reporter who supposedly talked to you that morning and his name is Hunter Schmidt, Jr., and that he has testified that he came to work at The Dallas Times Herald that morning and had a lead on this story that he had gotten from an anonymous telephone call that some woman made to the FBI and one was made to a television station here in Dallas telling them that Oswald had had some work done in your sports shop and I think I previously asked you about this and you said you didn't have anything to do with those anonymous telephone calls; is that right?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Schmidt says that he started looking for your name which he got from somewhere, apparently in connection with the Dallas Police Department and tracked you down at your home and called you between 7:30 and 8 o'clock on the morning of November 28, 1963, and that apparently your wife answered the telephone as you were still asleep and you came to the telephone and you appeared to be sleepy and that he talked to you for an extended period of time, and that you gave him the information that subsequently appeared in the newspaper article on November 28, 1963, in The Dallas Times Herald.
Mr. Schmidt was advised when he testified that you had denied giving him this story, although you had admitted that some reporter had called you on the telephone that morning. Is the name Hunter Schmidt familiar to you at all?
Mr. RYDER. No; it's not.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember whether or not that was the particular newspaper reporter that called you that morning?
Mr. RYDER. I couldn't say definitely for sure---like I said--I told them I had no comment on it and hung the thing up.
Mr. LIEBELER. In addition to the fact that Mr. Schmidt has so testified, I have been advised that one of Mr. Schmidt's associates was sitting right there in the office at the time Schmidt called you and heard the entire conversation between Schmidt and yourself and he said that Schmidt did talk to you for an extended period of time, or to a person by the name of Dial Ryder, who gave him this information about the gun work being done at the Irving Sports Shop and he said he heard the whole conversation.
Mr. Schmidt has, during the course of his testimony, volunteered to take a polygraph examination on this whole question as to whether or not he talked to you that morning and as to whether or not you gave him the information about the gun ticket and about the three holes that were drilled in the rifle and all the other information that appeared in that newspaper story. I am not here to say myself who is telling the truth, because I don't know, but it is perfectly obvious that one of you is not telling the truth, either Mr. Schmidt or you. I don't know what reasons you would have for not telling the truth, and I don't know what reasons Mr. Schmidt would have for not telling the truth, but I wonder if on reflection and in view of the statements that I have just made to you, if you can ponder this whole question and perhaps refresh your recollection. I don't know whether you talked to this newspaper reporter or not, but in view of the fact that we have this other testimony, I wonder if it would in some way refresh your recollection that in fact you did talk to this man?
Mr. RYDER. No; like I said, the only people I talked to were Mr. Horton with the FBI and then the Dallas Police Department or the sheriff's department--is the only ones I talked to about this, until, like I told you--the CBS reporters came out and we made the television deal after radios and everything got the thing and then we thought we had it straightened out with them, but as far as that morning, I didn't talk to anybody over the phone about it except I said I had no comment and hung up the receiver and then took the receiver back off of the hook and went on about my business of sleeping on this Sunday morning.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know a woman by the name of Edith Whitworth?
Mr. RYDER. Let's see---there was a lady from the Washington Press.
Mr. LIEBELER. No; this is a woman who used to run a furniture shop in Irving, which is down on Irving Boulevard.
Mr. RYDER. No; I don't know her.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know whether Mr. Greener knows her?
Mr. RYDER. Now, he might--I don't know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know any woman by the name of Mrs. Gertrude Hunter who also lives in Irving and is a friend of Mrs. Whitworth's?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't know them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you aware of the fact that just down Irving Boulevard from the Irving Sports Shop, a block and a half or so west, there used to be another gunshop where a man carried guns?
Mr. RYDER. Well, there was a little place down there where he handled guns--I don't know whether--if he was able to work on them or not, but it was about two blocks down the street or a block and a half or something like that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Toward the west?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And do you know that there used to be a used furniture shop that was there?
Mr. RYDER. Yes; it's still there.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you didn't know the people that ran it?
Mr. RYDER. No; I didn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mr. Schmidt is sitting out here in the front office and I'm going to ask him to come in and have you two gentlemen discuss this problem, see if there is some way we can resolve this story on this telephone conversation.
(At this point Mr. Hunter Schmidt, Jr., entered the room.)
Mr. LIEBELER. I have brought Mr. Hunter Schmidt, Jr., into the room and Mr. Schmidt has previously been sworn as a witness and testified yesterday on this question. I introduce you to Mr. Dial Ryder.
Mr. SCHMIDT. Mr. Ryder, how do you do?
Mr. LIEBELER. As I have indicated to Mr. Ryder, Mr. Schmidt testified yesterday that on the morning of November 28, 1963, you came to work in your office at the Dallas Times Herald and received information of some sort that possibly Lee Oswald had had some work done on a rifle, on his rifle or a rifle, in some sports shops or gunshop in the outlying areas of Dallas. Would you tell us briefly what happened after that, Mr. Schmidt?
Mr. SCHMIDT. After I got the tip, I traced it down and thought it was Garland first and I looked it up in the phonebook--the city directory--and the usual sources that we go through--I looked-through and this Ryder was the only one that I could find, or apparently he was the one that said what I was looking for.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where did you get Ryder's name in the first place; do you know?
Mr. SCHMIDT. Well, it was from a tip around the police station. Now, I don't remember. I have been trying to remember where who specifically it came from, but it was one of the many we were getting at that time. As I said before, we had several different 'leads on different stories and that they were coming in pretty thick, so I don't really remember where I got the Ryder name, but it came from around the police Station, one of our boys covering this angle of the assassination, called in from down there that a Ryder was supposed to have mounted a scope on a rifle for a customer named Oswald, so I stared checking from there, and like I said yesterday, I thought at first it was Garland and I had to do it by a process of elimination.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you went through the city directory and you finally found it in the phone book?
Mr. SCHMIDT. I believe I used the phonebooks and I found this Ryder and I called him up.
Mr. LIEBELER. About what time in the morning?
Mr. SCHMIDT. Oh, 7:30 or 8--something like that. I come in at 7 o'clock and it may be a little after 8, but I estimate it was between 7:30 or 8, but it was early, and I called the Ryder and there was a woman answered the phone.
Then, apparently the Ryder I talked to, and I guess it's this same Dial Ryder, I'm not sure, but the Ryder I talked to apparently had to get out of bed, there was a little interval, and come to the phone, and the person I talked to sounded sleepy. He gave me the information I got and it was very matter of fact and I believe you used the term "cordial" yesterday. I guess---that would be it--he was not antagonistic, but he was very--just very conversational in the question and answer session and explanation, and he said he had a ticket with the name Oswald on it and that it could have been the Oswald. He said he didn't remember for sure what the face looked like with the Oswald ticket, but he under-stands--he said he understood that this Oswald had a very common face for this area and I asked about buying ammunition or how many time he came in. I think he was sort of vague on that--he wasn't sure how many times he had been in, and besides talking about the sighting the rifle and the boring of the holes, that was in essence what it was, what we had in the paper. I believe I explained to you about the boresighting bit.
Mr. LIEBELER. There was some conversation between you about that?
Mr. SCHMIDT. He mentioned the boresighting and I don't think I understood it fully and that might have been a lithe incorrect in the paper, but that was the only thing that this technicality bit about the boresighting.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mr. Ryder, you have been siring here watching Mr. Schmidt and listening to his voice; does his voice seem at all familiar to you?
Mr. RYDER. Sure doesn't--not to me at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you tell us what your recollection is of what happened on that morning?
Mr. RYDER Well, like I have said before, and it is in my testimony--the FBI has the same thing--the phone rang. It was roughly 7:30, I would say it was closer to 7:30 than it was 8, and the reporter asked me had I mounted the scope on the Oswald gun and I told him I had no comment and I hung up, I mean. I took the receiver off the hook and that's all I done and all I said here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mr. Schmidt, after listening to Mr. Ryder's voice, can you identify it as the voice you say you spoke to on the telephone that day, or are you unable to do it?
Mr. SCHMIDT. No; I couldn't honestly identify him by voice now. It was 6 or 7 months ago and I only talked to Ryder once.
Mr. LIEBELER. Mr. Ryder, do you know of any other Ryders out there in the area who would have any knowledge of this gun ticket at the Irving Sports Shop?
Mr. RYDER. Not that I know of--not that I know of.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, as I indicated to you, Mr. Schmidt has volunteered and requested a polygraph examination to try to clear this matter up, and I wonder if you have any suggestion that you think of as to how it might be done?
Mr. RYDER. Well, I'll take the thing if you want me to take it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, I don't want to ask you to do it, but if you want to request it and assist the Commission in clearing this matter up, I think we could make arrangements. to have a polygraph examination administered to both of you.
Mr. RYDER. Well, I'm not one to volunteer for anything.
Mr. SCHMIDT. I am perfectly willing to, because I stand beside that story. I don't know this man personally, if this is the Ryder of the gun shop, the Irving Sports Shop, and the same one that identified himself that morning--that was the information I got from him and I don't have any reason to lie about it, you know, I get the same amount of pay, I don't get any extra money for that story and I didn't even get a byline for the story. I knew that it would be just part of a story. So, I feel like I am a professional with my business and I just don't like to be doubted.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember whether or not there was anybody else in your office at the time you heard this conversation that you had with Ryder?
Mr. SCHMIDT. There were several men around there but I'm not sure whether they recall this conversation or not or whether they were even paying any attention. There are a couple of men that sit right to my left and a couple to my right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, the Commission has followed the practice of due regard for the civil rights of the people who have been involved in this thing and it is not requesting anybody to take a polygraph examination, and it is not prepared to make an exception in this case for you, Mr. Ryder. If you want to volunteer to do so, the Commission will take it under advisement and decide what it wants to do, but it is not going to request you to do so, and I cannot even put myself in the position of even asking you to or urging you to or suggesting that you do so. That's entirely up to you.
Mr. RYDER. Well, like I said, I will take the thing if it boils down to that. Like I say, and I have contended all along, that I did not talk to anybody on Thanksgiving Day, that morning. I didn't talk to anybody. That was my day off.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any conversations with any other newspaper reporters--that afternoon, but of course, that day--which you said you wanted to enjoy as your day off, but' you did go over to the shop that afternoon and meet the television people, did you not?
Mr. RYDER. Right, that's after the story broke over the radio.
Mr. LIEBELER. And in the newspaper?
Mr. RYDER. Yes; and in the newspaper, and then we got with the CBS boys and made the little film that they wanted.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember talking to any newspaper reporters at any time the next day or the day after that about this whole story?
Mr. RYDER. Well, they were all over the place the next day---on Friday--Friday and Saturday.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you still take the position that you had nothing to do with the original story that came out and you never talked to the newspaper reporters prior to the time the story came out in The Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any idea where they got the story?
Mr. RYDER. I still don't know--I kind of felt like where they got it was over the radio---originally---I don't know. The CBS boys said that they got it off of the Associated Press wires, is how they got it, or over the AP.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, it is not the ordinary practice, of course, for the Commission to advise witnesses what kind of an investigation it has made in connection with this thing, at least, not until the report comes out, but I think you ought to know that as a result of the existence of this gun ticket and the story that you told the FBI and the Commission, the FBI has attempted to find every Oswald in the whole Dallas and Fort Worth area and the surrounding area and it has found many of them and it has questioned all of them, some of whom have moved out of Dallas and Fort Worth, as to whether or not they ever had any work done in that gunshop, and you should know that none of them ever did, and you should also know, and I think you probably do by now, that Lee Oswald could not have had any scope mounted on the rifle that he used to assassinate the President in your shop, and in fact, I don't think you claim you did mount that particular scope?
Mr. RYDER. That's right. We have claimed that it wasn't that one. On the Monday after, well, it was the Monday of the funeral of President Kennedy, that Mr. Horton came out and I thought at that time I had it cleared with him that I hadn't mounted the scope on the gun he used to assassinate the President.
Mr. LIEBELER. That you had not?
Mr. RYDER. That we had not.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you weren't able to remember Lee Harvey Oswald's face as being the face of the man who had previously been in that shop: isn't that right?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you couldn't associate any specific gun or any specific man with that particular work ticket; isn't that right?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any possible suggestions as to where that work ticket could have come from if it appears, and it certainly does appear that no other Oswald came in there and there is no evidence of any sort to indicate that Lee Harvey Oswald ever had any other rifle than the one he used to assassinate the President, and he never brought that one in the sports shop?
Mr. RYDER. All I know is that we had the ticket laying on the workbench back there and I had written it up and completed the work on it and the gun had been picked up. Now, as to whether it was Lee Oswald, I couldn't positively identify him or if there was another one out there right now I could not identify anybody if they said they did bring it in.
Mr. LIEBELER. And to the best of your recollecttion, you wrote that gun ticket sometime in the early part of November; is that right?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are certain that you wrote it up before November 22?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you are not able to associate that particular ticket with any particular gun in your own mind?
Mr. RYDER. That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER. I also recall that when I asked you questions about this before, you indicated that possibly we could fix the date on which this ticket had been written because you had written it with a pencil and you said you remembered you had gone to Dallas on that particular day, and that you used a pencil to get some materials from a wholesale shop. Of course, the FBI, as you now know, has gone and has found out every day that you ever went to Dallas to get gun materials and asked you if you could identify the time and the date by reviewing this list of materials that you got from the wholesale house in Dallas and you weren't able to associate it with any particular day you used a pencil.
Mr. RYDER. Right; he had 2 or 3 days there that he showed me some copies--actually, he gave the some dates that I came to town and signed and there were 2 or 3 days there in that period that I had. Signed with a pencil, and it could have been that some of those days I had a pencil laying handy and I just picked it up rather than taking my pen out of my shirt.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you be surprised if the Commission concluded, after this investigation that the FBI conducted and the questioning that we have done, that there was never any man in there by the name of Oswald with any gun at all?
Mr. RYDER. Yeah--like I said--all I've got is that ticket with his name on it and the work being done.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, at this point I think we might as well conclude the deposition. The Commission will take under advisement Mr. Schmidt's request to have a polygraph examination administered to him, and I am advised by one of the U.S. attorneys here that one of the other reporters over at the newspaper does remember the conversation and we will take his deposition tomorrow. If you want to have a polygraph examination administered to you, after reflecting on this, or if you have anything further to say about the whole thing, contact Miss Stroud here at the U.S. attorneys office, if you want to.
Mr. RYDER. Okay. Is that all?
Mr. LIEBELER. Yes; that's all. Thanks a lot, Mr. Ryder.

-------------------
My own conclusions:

That Ryder found out about the Furniture Mart incident and wrote out the work ticket. He then got his wife to phone in anonymous tips to the papers and FBI.

He did indeed give the interview to Schmidt. he denied doing so only because he had signed an exlusivity deal with CBS.

It is hardly surprising that the whole scheme soon unraveled - nor is it surprising that so many conspiracy advocates buy into the story despite it unraveling so easily - showing again that facts will never get in the way of a good bullshit story that can be folded into the Big Conspiracy modelling.

Addendum
The testimony also again suggests that a gun shop was not part of the Furniture Mart but had preceeded it.

Once again great work, Greg. So many people seem to have come out of the woodwork trying to get some fame by claiming connections to the case.

From The Blunt Archives.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bm1vuglv35wEV7Nvbb7xS7MobBZOTlTu/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1muwY5_Qw1sfyzpspoj-KUrdAWOXUTjOB/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15KStlBfuussaIvLeFPeQ7jX5U8TrdEJC/view?usp=sharing

bump

Good stuff Bart.




Was the address dipsey doo switcherroo to throw off that its Dials wife making the call, playing dumb about the address of the Irving Sports Shop.
Or does it lend some credance to Mrs Whitworth's "Plunger Man"

I would be nice to know if any phone books or directories listed the gunsmith at Whitworths Furniture Mart, as why else would someone take a rifle plunger to a furniture store.
They would have otherwise known about the gunsmiths shop there, or was told by a misinformed person that there was a gunsmith at Whitworths.

I still believe the item was a broken toilet plunger and guy was hoping for furniture repair (wood worker could glue it back together for couple pennies) rather than buy a new one.

Why wouldnt a rifle owner take his whole rifle to be worked on?
Could plunger equal firing pin. 


Yet if it was such a part that needed repair no such repair was undertaken by Ryder or Greener.
And no repair tag reflects 'Oswald Fix Plunger/Firing pin'

Following is the transcript of a youtube video by the artist formerly known as skythrone, "Notrueflags here".

I have no real objection to those using such names - the exception being when they hide behind those names to push absolutely crap theories, propaganda, and misinformation about others. 

I have zero tolerance for these types of posters.

This is the transcript of a youtube video he put up about me. I am not going to provide a link to it because fuck him - he wants cheap clicks for revenue.


0:00
in a recent conference with the noted
0:04
JFK researcher Greg Parker
0:07
the Furniture Mart episode was discussed
0:11

The furniture Mart may well have been discussed at one of the conferences. I have no idea either way. I do know it was not discussed at any conference by me. I note the shyster does not actually say I did - but he quite obviously wants listeners to believe I did so he has an excuse for more bullshit.


and that has prompted me to make this
0:14

No. Jealousy and malice and the need for attention is what prompted you.

video
0:15
because I don't have a video on that so
0:18

You don't have a video on earthworms either. When can we expect one?

I might as well
0:20
and the earliest
0:22
official document we have documenting
0:25
this event is this FBI report of
0:28
December 14 1963 interview
0:32
Mrs Mrs Edith Whitworth
0:36
Mrs Edith Whitworth home address 315
0:39
South Jefferson Irving Texas advised
0:43
that around November 6th 7th or 8th 1963
0:47
an individual whom she later knew as Lee
0:50
Harvey Oswald from his photograph had
0:53
come into the Furniture Mart where she
0:55
was working
0:56
the time Oswald came into the store
0:58
there was a gun repair sign on the front
1:01
of the building which had been left
1:03
there by the previous occupant

Right PREVIOUS OCCUPANT - NOT SOME GUY WHO OCCUPIED A CORNER OF THE FURNITURE MART. 

No one IN THEIR RIGHT MIND taking over a shop and starting a completely different business to the previous occupant leaves signage from that previous business up.

She not only left it up when taking over, but continued to leave it even though she would have had people coming in regarding guns on a regular basis because of it.  She was scatterbrained. 

Oswald
1:06
was directed to a gun repair shop
1:08
approximately one and a half blocks away
1:12
from the Furniture Mart

He may well have been so directed. But all based on a misunderstanding. 

He may well have asked if this was a gunsmiths because of the sign and despite all the furniture being evidence to the contrary. Asking if it is a gunsmiths because a sign says it is, is not necessarily an indication that he was looking for a gunsmith. 

This rod and latch for a cot is 54 mm which is approximately 21 inches. Close enough to Whitworths guestimate of 18 inches.

This was what was in the brown paper bag he took into the store. He took it out and put it back in the car when he realized they didn't understand, or have,  what he wanted.


He went back in only to check out furniture which he believed he would soon need.




Marina testified to the following


Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle carried in some kind of a case when you went back with Mrs. Paine?
Mrs. OSWALD. After we arrived, I tried to put the bed, the child's crib together, the metallic parts, and I looked for a certain part, and I came upon something wrapped in a blanket. I thought that was part of the bed, but it turned out to be the rifle.

Claiming that it turned out to be a rifle was bullshit. It was exactly what she thought it was - metal parts for Junie's crib - wrapped as you might expect - in Junie's blanket.

Moreover, we have Mike Paine testifying that he shifted the blanket a few times and it apparently never occurred to this army vet that it contained a rifle. Nope,. He thought it contained metal tent pegs. The rod for the crib is a lot closer in look to a tent peg than a rifle is.

Apparently there were missing parts - these things - easy to see they could easily get lost in moving house.


 
GANAZONO 4pcs Spring Latch Bed Fastening Fittings Cabinet Metal Crib Spring Loaded Small Bed Latches Part Mini Cribs Metal Plunger Latches Mini Plunger Baby Crib Screen Stainless Steel Iron



In asking for these plunger latches, busybody Hunter could not herself in interjecting to explain to the confused Whitworth (who by her own admission knew nothing about guns - or cribs apparently) that this was a gun part. 
 
1:14
so apparently Oswald saw the gun store
1:17
sign or the gun repair sign
1:20
and thought he was entering a gun repair
1:22
shop when really it was a furniture shop
1:26
some people might think that that's an
1:28
unlikely explanation and Greg Parker was
1:31
one of those people Greg Parker thought
1:33
that Oswald was there
1:35
because it was a furniture store and he
1:38
wanted a new plunger for his baby [ __ ]
1:40
yes that's what Parker said

Fucking liar. I never talked about the subject at any conference. 

And I have never described what he asked for as a fucking plunger for a baby you fucking idiot. For a baby's CRIB.

Join the fucking dots.

Lee wrapped the metal parts for June's crib inside June's blanket for the move to Irving. 

Marina, some time after arriving in Irving, tried to put the crib together. She recalled Lee put the metal parts in the blanket. She looked in the blanket - but the fasteners for the plunger were not there. 

A month or so after Lee gets back in town, they finally go looking for those fasteners - also mentioning to Whitworth that they will be in the market for furniture soon - and since Lee was indeed looking for new digs, that was true and is further evidence we are dealing with the real Oswald in this incident.

As for Dial Ryder... his boss was away... and when he heard about the furniture store, he and his wife took advantage of Dial being in the sports shop alone and conspired to insert him into the developing story which was quickly devolving into bullshit. He was just adding to the stinking pile. And by god it worked. He got paid for an excusive TV appearance -- and thereafter walked the story back as much as he could.


The rest of Yestrueflog here*'s bullshit snipped.

https://www.oup.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/131051/WOTM-December-2018.pdf
*The word flog is a derogatory term to describe a person considered to be. pretentious, conceited or foolish, and evidence suggests it is Australian. One of. the earliest examples of this sense of flog occurs in a 2006 posting on the online site Urban Dictionary. A contributor lists a number of meanings for flog, including this one with an illustrative sentence: ‘flog … (noun) a poser, someone who likes
to big-note themselves ... Look at that wanker in the Porsche talking on his car phone. What a flog.’  

That was on point Greg!
NoTruFlogs will be making another video, guaranteed.

Ed.Ledoux wrote:That was on point Greg!
NoTruFlogs will be making another video, guaranteed.

Credit to you for the find re crib parts.

Plunger detail brings it all together.
Cheers

It has never made much sense to me that Marina would be immediately willing to implicate Oswald in the assassination by mentioning a rifle missing from the garage but lie and say it was a rifle he brought from Russia. It’s like she was more concerned with protecting the rifle than her husband.

What’s your take on the garage party in context of the crib plunger deal? It was only a few hours after the assassination that Marina drops the blanket bomb, so if it was complete bullshit how/why did she come up with that story so early? It’s just so weirdly specific that it seems true, but her excuse for the Russian rifle bit seems like bullshit:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband. I didn't want to say too much.

So she didn’t want to say that her husband killed the President with a rifle he brought over from Russia vs. one he bought in America? The only explanation that even remotely makes sense is that she was in denial and acting irrationally, but I don’t buy it.

If I recall, Marina was also wildly inconsistent on when she actually saw the blanket rifle. Her affidavit says it was two weeks before the assassination and I think her WC testimony says it was right after they got back to Irving. I guess there could’ve been a translation error regarding the “two weeks”, but if not that’s a hell of a mix up. I’m not sure about her other statements.

JFK_FNG wrote:It has never made much sense to me that Marina would be immediately willing to implicate Oswald in the assassination by mentioning a rifle missing from the garage but lie and say it was a rifle he brought from Russia. It’s like she was more concerned with protecting the rifle than her husband.

What’s your take on the garage party in context of the crib plunger deal? It was only a few hours after the assassination that Marina drops the blanket bomb, so if it was complete bullshit how/why did she come up with that story so early? It’s just so weirdly specific that it seems true, but her excuse for the Russian rifle bit seems like bullshit:

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?

Mrs. OSWALD. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband. I didn't want to say too much.

So she didn’t want to say that her husband killed the President with a rifle he brought over from Russia vs. one he bought in America? The only explanation that even remotely makes sense is that she was in denial and acting irrationally, but I don’t buy it.

If I recall, Marina was also wildly inconsistent on when she actually saw the blanket rifle. Her affidavit says it was two weeks before the assassination and I think her WC testimony says it was right after they got back to Irving. I guess there could’ve been a translation error regarding the “two weeks”, but if not that’s a hell of a mix up. I’m not sure about her other statements.

Have thought about all this as well.

How I handled it in my script is by having Mrs Reece Panym (cough cough)  deliberately mistranslate Marina... so it is really her directing the cops to the blanket.  Not saying this is a fact, or even that it is the best explanation, but I wanted to have some way of handling it in the script, at least.

I also believe that Fritz already knew Marina was a Russian native with little or no English. It seems way too coincidental to me that one of the cops he sent actually spoke Russian - yet never attempted to act as interpreter. I think he let Ruth and Marina speak in Russian not knowing he could understand what they were saying.

You are right. None of it makes sense when analyzed. And I mean NONE. Not just this little garage vignette. 

That is what makes you and others here so good at this shit. The ability to think outside the toyboxes and barriers imposed. Those locked inside the PR machine have only one way of handling this dilemma. Imagination, leading to wild theories. 

I go back and forth on various aspects regarding the purchase of the weapons, and the Hidell alias.  But I do believe that most of these puzzles can be solved - or at least resolved to the extent that there are solutions that make sense of the provable facts. Whether or not that makes the resolution true is another question. But at least such resolutions have a far greater chance of being true.  

Among the possibilities

Ruth and Marina ordered the weapons

The BYP were part of an April Fool's Day Joke and then became valuable later as part of the frame (I do go back and forth on when and how they were manipulated). 

What is true beyond reasonable doubt:

The rifle was never stored in the garage.  

Marina as you say, may have been protecting knowledge of the rifle. But also about the truth of the BYP - via the destruction of just one - dedicated to June which was most likely taken in Minsk in March not long after the birth of June and as such, showed the shotgun - not a rifle - that he owned in Minsk. The hoax BYP showing two weapons and two commie papers,  were most likely BASED on this innocent pic.

There are so many aspects of all of this to consider. 

Another such aspect is his political "manifesto" which banned or severely limited the ownership of rifles (and pistols?) but suggested everyone should have a shotgun. Something like that anyway. Unlike some, I think what he wrote in those papers, he meant.

"Ruth and Marina ordered the weapons"


Early reports below;

Tony Krome wrote:"Ruth and Marina ordered the weapons"


Early reports below;

Yep. The case for it was pretty well all laid out here.
https://gregrparker.com/rethinking-oswalds-mail/

Tony Krome wrote:"Ruth and Marina ordered the weapons"


Early reports below;

If you haven’t read my essay that Greg linked above you should check it out. I go into this in considerable depth. You are actually in the endnotes: you posted a memo from Hoover to Walter Jenkins in an old Ed forum thread that I’ve never been able to actually find on MFF so I just cited your comment haha. 

I’ve changed my mind on a few things and found some new evidence so it could use an update, which I’ll get around to at some point, but there’s a lot of good info in there.

Eng, I'll check it out. I remember it caused the OP of that thread to get all upset. That was a few years back.

Tony Krome wrote:Eng, I'll check it out. I remember it caused the OP of that thread to get all upset. That was a few years back.

This is the one I cited:

 https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27234-destroying-the-wc-lies-the-rifle-part-iii/page/2/

This is Tom Gram by the way if you didn’t know haha. Just picked a random username when I joined ROKC.

Tom, interesting "woman" giveaway by Hoover to Johnson in your paper. Reminded of the "confidential source" in the Gannaway/Revill doc that had info that Ruth's maiden name was Hidell. Of course that was later determined by T2 that it was Hyde.

But if she had retained pre-marriage ID, there would be at least A. Hyde. (Ruth Avery Hyde).

Obscure Ruth, add 2 LLs and at a glance it would present as A Hydell.

Tony Krome wrote:Tom, interesting "woman" giveaway by Hoover to Johnson in your paper. Reminded of the "confidential source" in the Gannaway/Revill doc that had info that Ruth's maiden name was Hidell. Of course that was later determined by T2 that it was Hyde.

But if she had retained pre-marriage ID, there would be at least A. Hyde. (Ruth Avery Hyde).

Obscure Ruth, add 2 LLs and at a glance it would present as A Hydell.

Most people think Hoover’s reference there was to the Ana J. Hidell mixup from San Antonio, which is possible, but I’m not so sure given the context and timing of the call.

By Saturday morning Hoover “knew” that Oswald had used the name Hidell as an alias - which he mentions to Johnson immediately after the woman comment. The woman comment was specifically in reference to the A. Hidell on the rifle purchase. He even corrected himself by saying “a man - no…to a woman”. 

So basically Hoover was telling Johnson that a woman ordered the rifle using the name A. Hidell - but that Oswald had used the same alias. It’s bizarre. 

To your point, is there any solid evidence of the Hidell alias prior to 2/22/63? There’s that “Alek” letter from Russia, but I forget the date on that, and until the SS card popped up I think Hidell was always just the genderless “A.” or “A.J.” The only other thing I can think of is the order form for the pistol with the 1/27/63 date, but the pistol wasn’t actually shipped until March so I’m not sure how reliable that date is.

JFK_FNG wrote:

Tony Krome wrote:Tom, interesting "woman" giveaway by Hoover to Johnson in your paper. Reminded of the "confidential source" in the Gannaway/Revill doc that had info that Ruth's maiden name was Hidell. Of course that was later determined by T2 that it was Hyde.

But if she had retained pre-marriage ID, there would be at least A. Hyde. (Ruth Avery Hyde).

Obscure Ruth, add 2 LLs and at a glance it would present as A Hydell.

Most people think Hoover’s reference there was to the Ana J. Hidell mixup from San Antonio, which is possible, but I’m not so sure given the context and timing of the call.

By Saturday morning Hoover “knew” that Oswald had used the name Hidell as an alias - which he mentions to Johnson immediately after the woman comment. The woman comment was specifically in reference to the A. Hidell on the rifle purchase. He even corrected himself by saying “a man - no…to a woman”. 

So basically Hoover was telling Johnson that a woman ordered the rifle using the name A. Hidell - but that Oswald had used the same alias. It’s bizarre. 

To your point, is there any solid evidence of the Hidell alias prior to 2/22/63? There’s that “Alek” letter from Russia, but I forget the date on that, and until the SS card popped up I think Hidell was always just the genderless “A.” or “A.J.” The only other thing I can think of is the order form for the pistol with the 1/27/63 date, but the pistol wasn’t actually shipped until March so I’m not sure how reliable that date is.

I always thought that the Ana Hidell name was a misreading of raw notes from the Jones call to the FBI and that the raw notes probably said "and an a Hidell" but was typed as "and Ana Hidell". This theory was supported by the questioning of Jones during his HSCA interview when he was asked if this was possibly how the name came about. He admitted it was possible. What may have spooked Hoover was a combination of that snafu (which he had no clue may have been just a snafu) along with the possibility that a female opened the box. 

If you look however, at all the variations of the name that the FBI searched under, it included "Hydell", indicating that they possibly suspected Hyde was the inspiration for the name. 

The pistol was ordered under AJ and the rifle just under A. As you say, genderless. Alek James does not come into it until the after the assassination through the phony card. 

Just spitballing again here... is it just coincidental that A J turned out to be the initials of his two daughters? Coincidence that the one pic that Marina destroyed was inscribed to June? And how did $10 for Marina to buy shoes for herself get turned into concern on the Saturday about new shoes for June? In spook circles, getting a new pair of shoes is "code" for getting a new assignment.

Tom, in my book (unpublished) I have a completely different scenario. Greg above mentioned assignment. I would suggest you look at adapting the ingredients of early 1963.

Tony Krome wrote:Tom, in my book (unpublished) I have a completely different scenario. Greg above mentioned assignment. I would suggest you look at adapting the ingredients of early 1963.

Well, my sole source for that is the writer and editor, James Grauerholz, who was also the executor of William Burroughs' estate - so you need to bear the source in mind. The exact quote is “There’s an old CIA slang that says getting a new assignment is getting new shoes.” It sounds like it should be true - but have never found any other source for it.

Greg, makes more sense than anything else I've seen. The implication is that Marina was expected to understand the message, right?

Tony Krome wrote:Greg, makes more sense than anything else I've seen. The implication is that Marina was expected to understand the message, right?

If indeed there was any hidden meaning.

Going against that interpretation is Ruth's confirmation that they had a shoe shopping expedition planned for the afternoon of 11/22. 

But even that can be spun into something else if you consider that the ladies shoe store in Oak Cliff was run by Bill Lowery - deep penetration agent of the FBI who had been running Joe Molina.

The shoes June was wearing, that Robert noticed with the toe hole, were actually Ruth's daughter's red tennis shoes. Robert assumed, with Lee mentioning the shoe thing to him, that it was in relation to the shoes he saw on June. Why mention the shoes to Robert, when previously that afternoon, Lee had already passed the message, in Russian, to Marina. Reenforcement of the message?

Then we have Ruth in 64 mentioning shoe shopping that afternoon. Was that something that was mentioned Thursday evening that Lee was aware of? If so, prior to speaking with Marina on Saturday, Lee may have assumed June had already acquired new shoes. But he states, Junie needs new shoes, as if he knows that shoes were never purchased as allegedly intended.

Tony Krome wrote:The shoes June was wearing, that Robert noticed with the toe hole, were actually Ruth's daughter's red tennis shoes. Robert assumed, with Lee mentioning the shoe thing to him, that it was in relation to the shoes he saw on June. Why mention the shoes to Robert, when previously that afternoon, Lee had already passed the message, in Russian, to Marina. Reenforcement of the message?

Then we have Ruth in 64 mentioning shoe shopping that afternoon. Was that something that was mentioned Thursday evening that Lee was aware of? If so, prior to speaking with Marina on Saturday, Lee may have assumed June had already acquired new shoes. But he states, Junie needs new shoes, as if he knows that shoes were never purchased as allegedly intended.

Marina testified that Lee asked her on the Thursday night if she had bought new shoes for herself yet, She says no on the basis that she has not had the time (which sounds like bullshit to me. She loved shopping - as demonstrated when she hit the jackpot post-assassination). Lee then apparently instructed her to herself and the kids whatever they needed - which - as she pointed out to her deposers, was out of character Perhaps Marina discussed this with Ruth later and it was only then decided to go shopping Friday afternoon. 

I am looking for innocent explanations, but really can't come up with anything that I find trumps my nagging suspicions.